any plo8/nlo8 games in the area?

We played .25/.50 NLO8 tonight ...

We have plo8 as part of our mix game. ashburnpokerclub@gmail.com

Just moved to Arlington, VA!

Anyone hosting low stakes NL cash games / tourneys in the area?

Just looking for some friendly recreational live play from time to time -- you know, somewhere between penny ante and 0.5/1.

Yes. Did you think of reading the preceding 203 posts?

What's this "reading" you speak of?


But yeah, I did. Much of the content dates back one or more years, or the stakes are too high (1/2+) for what I'm looking for. I did PM one guy who mentioned a lower stakes game recently enough. But I'll look over the late 2009/2010 postings again to see if I missed something.

Edit: Oh, I missed your mention of a game in Old Town, oops. I'll send you a PM in a bit, running out just now ...

bumpage.

Just moved out to the area, looking for some fun mid/high stakes home games. PM me please!

and bump again - anyone know if that adams morgan game is still going on? I just moved to that area and wouldn't mind having a home game within walking distance - no matter what the distance.

Just moved to the area, Alexandria, VA, a few months ago. Any local games around here? Havent played live in at least a year probably longer starting to get the itch to play live again. Nothing too big, low stakes cash or tourneys. PM me please thanks

www.va-holdem.com

"100% legal tournaments in conformance with the Code of the State of Virginia"

LOL, I'm going to guess this guy is not a lawyer. That game is no more legal than running a craps game out of a public storefront in Clarendon, but whatever.

How so?

It's illegal in every way. First of all, even unraked games are illegal in Virginia if run by an operator which "includes any person, firm or association of persons, who conducts, finances, manages, supervises, directs or owns all or part of an illegal gambling enterprise, activity or operation."

The guy running it is clearly an "operator" and the game runs regularly. Not to mention he DOES charge a rake (calling it a mandatory donation, or even a donation, doesn't help). The defense that the game costs him more to operate than the rake is no defense.

I'm not saying that what he's doing shouldn't be legal -- it should. And I'm not saying the cops would care to break up a low stakes home with a reasonable usage fee -- they won't.

But the only half way decent legal argument that the game is legal is that poker is a game of "skill" and not a "contest or any other event the outcome of which is uncertain or a matter of chance."

I realize the PPA is trying hard to get courts to rule that poker is always a skill and not a "matter of chance" but it's a tough argument (read the law). Clearly chance plays a role. Virginia law is pretty unclear overall though and generally the ambiguity should favor the accused.

What's not unclear is that the game (or any game in VA) is not "100% legal." At best, it's a tossup. At worst, it's illegal as hell.

100% wrong. The "operator" paragraph you quote does not apply; the home game exception is explicit. The person running the game (me, btw) is not an "operator" under VA law. The $10 toward food is *not* a rake, and the receipts for the food, which always far exceed the amount collected, are kept available. Half the time, we don't even do that -- we order individually from a local restaurant, and someone collects the actual cost of the items ordered. Even then, the host provides additional items -- cheeses, wine, beer, desserts -- at no charge whatsoever.

You might avoid circular arguments and read further in the City Code. Being the host does not make one an "operator." Also note that the term "commonly" has specific legal meaning, and is *not* synonymous with "regularly":

"Sec. 13-1-9 Same--private residences.
Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to make it illegal to participate in a game of chance conducted in a private residence, provided such private residence is not commonly used for such games of chance and there is no operator. An operator includes any person, firm or association of persons who conducts finances, manages, supervises, directs or owns all or part of an illegal gambling enterprise, activity of operation. (Code 1963, Chapter 23, as amended by Ord. No. 2427, 1/8/80, Sec. 1)"

Further, in addition to the LEOs who are always in the game, more than half of the game's regulars are attorneys. The city attorney is an occasional player. You can't get a more explicit endorsement than that.

Like I said, these games happen everywhere but I wouldn't exactly go bragging that it is 100% legal online. Because it's not. You contradicted yourself -- first you said the operator law doesn't apply, then you quoted it. Of course it applies (it's right there in the exception!) and of course it can easily be read to make the host an operator -- which I admit, is stupid in context of the exception, but just using the plain language of the law: "conducts, finances, manages, supervises, directs or owns"

I would imagine it wouldn't be hard to convince a judge or jury that the host "conducts" or "manages" or "supervises" the game. Running a website and being the regular host -- those would be bad facts for you on that point.

But as I said, a blind eye is turned to these games every day, in every city, in every state. There's a line and clearly your game is not crossing it -- in terms of what would be prosecuted. I've played in "illegal" games with very senior Congressional officials and know of current games with very senior administration officials. Nobody cares because there's a line of what constitutes a truly professional/illegal game and these games are nowhere close. I even know someone that used to play in the Bennett/Rehnquist game which had two sitting Supreme Court justices and a handful of D.C. Circuit judges, along with other DC heavyweights. And some of these games have/had a lot of money moved around.

That said... the plain language of the Virginia law suggests (quite strongly) that the games are "illegal."

And a rake is a rake is a rake is a rake. Taking donations at the door and only accepting max 1 dollar is a rake. I promise you that you don't want to hang your hat on that argument, ever. That argument's a surefire loser. (Unless you can prove a whole lot of things that I'm guessing you can't -- people that never paid rake were invited back, nobody ever asked about the rake twice, nobody ever felt pressured, etc.).

No, I did not. I quoted another section of the code, sec. 13-1-9.

How convenient of you to leave out the rest of that sentence: "all or part of an illegal gambling enterprise, activity of operation", when this section's entire purpose is to define games which are not illegal gambling enterprises. This section was inserted specifically to protect home games like mine, where I don't make a penny other than what I win at the table, rather than enterprises like the one in Manassas, where a couple seeks to make a living from running poker games in their home.

Wrong again. You really do guess badly. Anyone who's ever played in my game would gladly testity to all those points.

Let me put it this way: my Web page is right there in the open because the game *is* 100% legal. I *invite* you or anyone else to report or complain about my game to city or state authorities. I would *enjoy* the opportunity to defend this game against anyone else's convoluted interpretation of the Virginia Code. I'm about to retire from the federal government -- this would give me something to do.

looking for home games in the herndon,reston,sterling area!

Not trying to get into an internet war, but I'll just leave with this quote from your website:

"There is no rake. There will be the usual required $10 donation toward the food and drink."

Emphasis mine.

That is correct. But if people come too late to eat, they don't pay. And if they simply don't want to eat, they don't pay. And that money is not paid to the house (me) -- it is collected by a random player, who uses it to pay the pizza guy.

And once or twice a year -- like last week, for example --nobody pays anything. I pay for it all.

Here's how it works out when we have pizza: for ten guys, we order five extra-large pizzas. These cost around $90 plus a min. 10% tip for the driver. Then I put out two or three cheeses and crackers, which cost ~$15. Chips, etc. are another $8. Dessert generally runs ~10-15. Condiments, pepsi, iced tea, coffee and espresso are free. A backup sixer of good beer for anyone who forgets to bring his own is another $9. Two bottles of decent wine are at least $30. When we hit my 100+ single malts or other liquors after 10 pm, they're free.

So say we collect $100 for food -- that barely pays for the pizza. I'm still paying an extra $75 each week. If someone doesn't like that, don't come. No one has ever raised the slightest objection (except possibly to complain about there being basil on the pizza).

Actually sounds like a pretty awesome spread... To think I used to feel like I was going above-and-beyond in providing Goldfish to people at my home game...

That said, wine at poker games?

We have one regular who always brings rum, two who always bring beer, and the rest vary. A few of us like wine with the cheeses and the non-pizza food, so it works for us.

The glasses don't care what's in 'em! 8

Boy, am I late to this thread. I'm looking for games in the MD area mostly. I could do VA, but wouldn't be able to get there too early. I prefer low stakes like 1/2 NL or even micro would be better. FL up to about 3/6 maybe or perhaps 4/8, would prefer 2/4. Tournies are great too, prefer buyins maybe $40 or less? I'm pretty flexible.

Annapolis, PG or AA cty, even DC and NoVA would be considered.

I didn't read the /whole/ thread, but even the most recent posts are pretty old, so here I am, calling out. As Mike Sexton says, I've "lost my poker home."

If you don't find anything closer, we're just across the bridge in Alexandria: www.va-holdem.com.

-- Larry

Larry, saw your page and you list micro stakes NL cash. Old Town is not far from me (30 minutes or so). I'll be in contact about parking arrangements, but if it's Old Town, metro might be the way to go.

The mixed games look cool, how often does that run?

Is it near Silver Spring?