I am very interested in what actions or situation you, or anyone else, would consider an impropriety.

As for shuffling perhaps you're not aware that a typical home game uses two decks so all shuffling is done during the course of a hand.

My policy has always been to have the person in the bb shuffle. This not only serves to rotate the shuffle around the table but acts as a reminder to the player to post their blind. Typically this person is done shuffling before it's their turn to act

Some people are just paranoid about deck stacking and stuff. People seem to think it's easy to do or something. They also can't accept that the beats just happen sometimes. I have certainly dealt more than enough Daggers to my own heart in games

I have pretty much the same policy as you FWIW Small Fry.

i am also a lurker wanting to join... let me kno if that's okay - i'd bring a friend who is somewhat new to the game but is good folks. (my ride too)

Small Fry, I was just simply saying keeping a standard usually prevents any potential issues from arising. I can't think of anything specific as I have never been involved w/ 1 table using a shuffler and the other hand shuffling. But I can think of all kinds of stupid **** people will say and cause problems no matter how ridic they are. I'm sorry for just tossing that little idea out there, was trying to save you some hassle and now I apparently am just some crazed person who has no ground here. *backs away*

Not sure why you think you're crazed.

I was more interested in your concern over having a dedicated dealer / player vs. having everyone at the table take a turn.

You expressed a legitimate concern in a general way. I was just wondering if you had more specific concerns that I could address.

I think I could alleviate any concerns anyone might have and wanted the opportunity to address yours. You might bring up something I haven't heard before.

The shuffling issue is a non-event in my mind. I can easily prove, by choosing any random person, that a real person can shuffle just as fast, if not faster, than the machine.

Guys.

I previously told you about the layout now here's the equipment:

Cards....complete with instructions for the new players.....



And a few of the chips....I have blue and white also....




What can I say. I blew my wad on that cool table with the shuffler.


Just kidding....

Total level...

I just don't see why there would be a dedicated dealer at the table. How do you select the dealer? What if they kind of suck at dealing? How do you get a diff dealer in their place if they suck without kind of embarrassing them? I don't have any personal concerns, and I won't be attending. (Sorry, not flying out for the game. :P) I just think there is a chance for some stupid things to pop up by not keeping to a fairly obviously fair game. I'm by no means a home poker pro, so really I don't have much reasoning. Just seems like people could perceive it wrong or foolishly and get ******ed about it.

Look at Bumba's group, he had some serious winners to deal w/. Logic need not apply to some people?

Understandable, but I can frame the question from my perspective also - I don't see why anyone would want everyone to have a turn dealing? Why do I want some guy that can't deal to have a turn?

I select people I know and trust. I have confidence in their abilities to act in the capacity of a dealer. Similair to what one would expect in a casino.

If I don't know them then I would have to take them at they're word that they can deal. Of course I could also have them demonstrate their skills and ask them how they would handle some different situations. Basically, interview them.

The everyone deals method has no such determining factors. It's just everyone at the table.

My method: They don't. That's the whole point of having a dedicated dealer. It's a player that plays a similiar role to a dealer in a casino. They're chosen to deal because they know how, they're willing to learn and they don't mind the additional responsibility. They're not expected to be perfect. They will make mistakes. But they understand their role and strive to be fair and unbiased.

Everyone deals method: They could. But that won't be discovered until it's their turn. Unless they speak up and announce they suck. When it's the bad dealers turn who controls the action? Who makes the decisions? Is there always a misdeal or mistake on their turn? What do you do about the guy who drinks a little too much? The problems this method can cause are exponentially greater as so many more players are involved in the process.

My method: It's not an issue due to the reasons above. However, if there was an issue my last concern would be if they're embarrassed. I expect my dealers to have a fiduciary duty to the game. If they fail in this then they've let down more than just me.

Everyone deals: Excellent question? I guess you just put up with it. Or do you tell a guy he's not good enough. Who decides? Who tells him? Hopefully you're not at a table where like half the guys are really bad.

When one of the guys at the end is dealing do others help him drag in chips, push the pot and gather folded cards. A lot of hands involved. My method only one player does this.

I don't know where unfairness enters the picture. Where does it say to be fair eveyone must deal?

Whats fair about having 2 bad dealers at a table of 8. That means that 25% of the hands per round will be poorly dealt. This takes away from the playing experience and adds unneeded stress. How is this fair? Why not just have one guy who knows what he's doing deal so everyone can relax and enjoy themselves.

To me, having one competent person dealing, alleviates the concerns you raised much more than having everyone at the table have a turn. I honeslty think having everyone deal creates the concerns

Lastly, I can only address legitimate, rational concerns. If someone wants to be irrational about it then nothing I can say, or do, will be able to address their concerns. I'm also not going to change methods that have worked very well for over 5 years because some player, as you put it "gets all ******ed about it".

Thanks for bringing this subject up. It might even be worth starting a new thread about. Or not.

Okay, now for my final point... Look how much time all of this has eaten up just dealing w/ a slightly concerned person who isn't emotionally, physically, or even remotely attached. This is probably more to the point, you're gonna burn personal fuel and time dealing w/ this situation when it arises that you could just avoid by making sure the standards are all the same.

As for dedicated dealer you trust, that means seating won't be randomized? Also if you pick someone on their word and they then suck at dealing, you? I can continue on the continuation plans but that goes back to above paragraph. That's all I got.

You seem to be the only one that's worked up over it.

lol well timed response. I guess I won't ever provide feedback/input that could potentially come from attendants that are not on 2p2 to do so themselves.

(BTW, devil's advocate kind of deal.)

I don't even know what you are saying here.

Time to get this back in the spotlight:

Important info for those who don't feel like reading the whole thread are in posts #31, 34 and 41.

I think #31 I talked about my place so I'll take up some space here talking about the stuff:

To run a tournament I use The Tournament Director program on my laptop and typically use an AV projection on the back wall of garage so everyone can see whats happening.

Cards - Copags and Kems. Mostly bridge sized but the shuffling machine prefers poker sized so I have a couple of two deck sets for that.

Chips: Tourney and cash game sets. Both are Chipco ceramics. The tourney chips have a custom design. Tourney chips are non - denomination while the cash chips have the value on them. I have plenty of Tourney chips.

My cash game set will not cover more than one table or play higher than a .50 BB. We need cash game chips valued at .05, .25 1.00 and 5.00 Preferably with denominations printed on them. If you hope to get a larger cash game going then you might want to bring the chips to support it (eg. if you want to shoot for a $1/$2 game then maybe you bring along a bunch of $1, $5 and $20 ($10??) chips).

Anyone besides gedanken want to step up with some chips? Values and quantity please.

So far 14 have indicated that they'd like to play and there's been indications of having 7 "friends" along for the ride.

I'll start PM'ing everyone my info on Thursday. It might take a little bit as I can only do 2 people at a time.

I can bring my set of the Egyptian Chipcos. They have values on them, and should be more than able to support a few cash games.

OMG! James Bond plaques FTW! It's been so long since I've heard the klink of plaques!

BTW with regard to the dealer issue, in the old game, some of the very best players in the Bay area attended. Guys you might often see in the 100/200 limit game, or the $10,000 buy-in WPT at Bay 101, or published authors, or guys you've seen on tv in the WSOP Main Event. Nobody really considered that players like that would be trying to cheat a 50 cent/1 dollar game.

If anyone tries it in this new game, I have no doubts that pfap would spot them in a second anyway.

Amen. Just keep the influences away from him as I'm sure it'd dull this hippy bastard.

As far as I can tell, this no longer has the 100/200 crowd.

If I could throw in my opinion on the dedicated dealing issue...

I don't like it.

Not against it for this one game, because who cares, but for a regular game in general. Hell, for this one, I'll be happy to deal for a while.

As I have often been the dedicated dealer, I can tell you for sure it affects my game. People who tell you they can play 100% while dealing well are not putting enough effort into dealing. And if they're not doing that, why are they dedicated dealers in the first place?

To those who claim they can't shuffle or deal: tough titties. From whom do you expect to gain sympathy? All the other people doing the exact same thing you are? That's insane. Dealing is INCREDIBLY EASY. Can you count to ten? Then you can deal. If you play a game on a regular basis and can't figure out a few things from every hand that you don't deal, which is most of them, then you're a friggin' moron. "Aww, I'm sorry that you feel it's unfair we ask you to do the same thing we're doing. Now shut up and deal."

I dedicated dealt my game for a while. Then I insisted rotation. People whined, people sucked at it. But y'know what? They eventually realized how stupid they sounded by whining, and they figured out how to stop doing the common mistakes that lead to bad dealing.

They managed to survive through my card-pitching, so they can survive anyone.

I wasn't going to rehash the dealing issue but since there's been a couple of responses I'd like to make my position clear as I may have come off sounding like I think that a dedicated dealer is the only way to go. Not so.

I just believe that a game, on a standard shaped poker table, (please don't get all pedantic on what a standard shaped table is. We all know what I'm talking about) runs smoother and is more enjoyable if the players seated in the center of the table are competent dealers and are willing to take on that responsibility. I've yet to have someone prove me wrong.

Even the best dealer in the world can't do it all by himself from the end of a table.

I'm also not so sure it's incredibily easy. Pfap, you say you it effects your game. Surely something so easy to do wouldn't impact your game?

Either way, it's not an issue for me (even though I might have given that impression). I'm having fun no matter how many players deal, good or bad.

Cool. I've been wanting to see these in real life. Hope they don't make my classics look boring.....

I agree completely. I just think it's unfair to those in the middle.

They're easy tasks, but if you're doing them every hand, they distract from playing poker. I don't play every hand, but I do try to pay attention every hand, to things that I don't notice when I'm dealing. It's easy enough to deal one quick hand every eight or ten times without it impacting too much, but if I'm the regular fixed dealer, then I'm doing a lot more. Not only dealing more hands, but being more meta-game about it, since I now have a rhythm and flow to maintain.

Let's put it another way: if a good player wants to be the dedicated dealer, I'm more than happy to let him, because it gives me more of an edge.

A good compromise is to rotate the deal between the 4 people seated around the center of the table. This usually works out fairly well.

This seems like a really solid idea.

Though I'm perhaps being an awkward moose here, I have to travel for business the week leading up to this and I have to visit "The City" -- I could easily be in the Bay that weekend.