Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
QQ big 3 way pot QQ big 3 way pot

05-25-2010 , 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike l.
why would you even consider calling? if you cant make folds like these in live games with your eyes closed then why play live, it's the whole beauty of it.
lol.
05-25-2010 , 04:29 AM
mike l is the man, it doesn't even matter if that post was serious or not
05-25-2010 , 05:30 AM
so i hemmed and hawed and called because i got top set and this is either a straight or a bluff, like zomg polarized amirite?

small blind hemmed and hawed and mucked a set of deuces.

bb got the KJdd and the pot.

side question1: suppose i did fold the QQ. if you're the small blind with 222, do you make the crying call?

side question2: if you're the bb with A9dd and the river is a 9x or an Ax how do you play the river?
05-25-2010 , 08:35 AM
1) It's essentially the same as the spot you were in. Slightly different, but it seems generally the same analysis applies.

2) Unless I'm remember the the HH wrong it seems like a c/c on either card for one bet
05-25-2010 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Daddy Cool
so i hemmed and hawed and called because i got top set and this is either a straight or a bluff, like zomg polarized amirite?

small blind hemmed and hawed and mucked a set of deuces.

bb got the KJdd and the pot.

side question1: suppose i did fold the QQ. if you're the small blind with 222, do you make the crying call?

side question2: if you're the bb with A9dd and the river is a 9x or an Ax how do you play the river?
1: if i was sb i'd def fold. however, if i was hu as i said id muck any two pair and only call with sets.

2: bet-fold ace for sure just in case you decided to cap the turn with pair+draw equity in position and probably c/c 9 as its way too powerful to fold in this huge pot and if you donk and someone raises with kk/aa thinking you're donking an overplayed aq/kk (respectively vs those kk/aa in those spots) you don't want to fold and be on life tilt. the ace just looks way too face up and if you bet and there is always a shot bb's hand could look like AA so a lot of people may slow down.
05-26-2010 , 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Daddy Cool
so i hemmed and hawed and called because i got top set and this is either a straight or a bluff, like zomg polarized amirite?

small blind hemmed and hawed and mucked a set of deuces.

bb got the KJdd and the pot.

side question1: suppose i did fold the QQ. if you're the small blind with 222, do you make the crying call?

side question2: if you're the bb with A9dd and the river is a 9x or an Ax how do you play the river?
Side question 1: with 222, I definitely fold.

Side question 2: I check fold the river in both scenarios. The reason why is because of almost every single response in this thread. you are never getting sets to fold.
05-26-2010 , 04:58 AM
ur check folding 2 pair and trips+ace kicker on river in huge pots?
05-26-2010 , 05:15 AM
2pr/trips outs are worth practically nothing for A9dd.. you are against at least one set almost 100% of the time imo
05-26-2010 , 06:09 AM
I don't buy that either. It's 5 handed with multiple animals and limited flop action. There was little enough hand strength shown for bb to continue betting the turn with a draw. A c/3b by sb who had 3b pf could be as little as KK against chris imo. A small chance of it being even aq. Chris' cap obv means more, but I don't know if it's never aces or Q9.
05-26-2010 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameoverjc
ur check folding 2 pair and trips+ace kicker on river in huge pots?
Yes. In this spot I am. I mean once it is capped on the turn three ways you have to be in complete denial or completely clueless to not think someone has a set. Or to rephrase, let's say you hit a 9 on the river. It probably goes sb checks, bb checks, hero bets, sb calls, now you're getting 18:1 or something. There is no way that you're winning 5-6% of the time. Probably not even half that.

The whole "huge pot" argument is something I've never really been a big fan of. The huge pot makes your odds more attractive, but there is a reason why the pot is so large, especially when you are up against 2 good players. You are up against stronger hands on average and therefore you usually don't have nearly as many outs as you think.
05-26-2010 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolmitHE
I don't buy that either. It's 5 handed with multiple animals and limited flop action. There was little enough hand strength shown for bb to continue betting the turn with a draw. A c/3b by sb who had 3b pf could be as little as KK against chris imo. A small chance of it being even aq. Chris' cap obv means more, but I don't know if it's never aces or Q9.
I don't know Chris nor have I played with him before, but I think he probably doesn't cap it preflop with Q9. So I would be comfortable saying that he never has Q9 here. I think there is a 0 percent chance that he caps AQ on the turn unless he has a redraw, but in this scenario we hold the Ad9d so he can't have that redraw. Therefore, your last hope is Chris having AA, the sb having KK, and both of them playing it in this exact manner. While Chris could play AA like this maybe, I think there is no way that sb would ever play KK like this. Maybe my whole analysis is wrong, but I stand by my previous answer of check folding any river that doesn't improve my hand to a flush.
05-27-2010 , 12:46 PM
wait let me see if i get action right. chris caps pf. his range is aj suited, 99+. when bb c/r flop and leads turn and chris raises his range comes to qq,99,kk,aa, aq. when sb cold 3 bets his hand range is a-q,22,66, 99, kk,aa, j10dd (SB IS A DECENT REGULAR, he isn't the good player in this hand, the bb and chris are). i expect, if sb is decent regular, he is check calling river with KK, 22,66, a-q, and maybe putting in a bet/call on river with 99.

the question is if the BB knows that chris doesn't cap with equity when he knows BB is drawing on turn in this spot with his hand range. if chris only caps with sets and only sets when he knows bb is drawing, then check fold is fine. If you can say absolutely that you know a player that well where he only caps sets when he knows ur drawing on the turn 3 way with position, i mean that's a sick read and i guess i have leaks in my game.

I'm not trying to argue, i'm prolly down over 60k in last 3 months and trying to figure out if i'm playing awful by my poker theory in these spots.
05-27-2010 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gameoverjc
wait let me see if i get action right. chris caps pf. his range is aj suited, 99+. when bb c/r flop and leads turn and chris raises his range comes to qq,99,kk,aa, aq. when sb cold 3 bets his hand range is a-q,22,66, 99, kk,aa, j10dd (SB IS A DECENT REGULAR, he isn't the good player in this hand, the bb and chris are). i expect, if sb is decent regular, he is check calling river with KK, 22,66, a-q, and maybe putting in a bet/call on river with 99.

the question is if the BB knows that chris doesn't cap with equity when he knows BB is drawing on turn in this spot with his hand range. if chris only caps with sets and only sets when he knows bb is drawing, then check fold is fine. If you can say absolutely that you know a player that well where he only caps sets when he knows ur drawing on the turn 3 way with position, i mean that's a sick read and i guess i have leaks in my game.

I'm not trying to argue, i'm prolly down over 60k in last 3 months and trying to figure out if i'm playing awful by my poker theory in these spots.

Ok first of all, you're isolating the turn action and basing your reads completely on that. What about the flop action? The sb just check called Chris' bet and then the bb check raised and they both just called. That is very inconsistent with KK and AQ and probably AA for the sb. I would imagine he would check raise or lead out the flop with those hands and not call twice. That's why I pretty much eliminated those hands from the Sb's range when I first read this hand. If you eliminate those hands and then look at the sb's turn action, all that's really left is 22, 66, 99 and once in a while AA or Q9.

I understand that you believe Chris' capping range on the turn should be large because he's a good player and he is probably 95 to 99% sure that the bb is drawing. But the sb really makes that play pretty risky if you don't have close to the nuts. If you're in Chris' spot, and you have AA, you just call the BB's flop check raise, as does the SB, and then you raise the turn and all of a sudden the Sb 3 bets, what can you possibly do other than just call? By capping, you're charging the draw the maximum, but you are also hoping that the sb is playing AQ or KK super weird and that just wouldn't make any sense to me if I were in Chris' position. I mean I said before that I could be completely wrong in my analysis and I was lucky that the results of the hand matched my reads.
05-27-2010 , 03:52 PM
well i typed a long msg and i accidentally pressed back. anyways, my thoughts were:

this is a late position battle. button/sb/bb. their ranges are wider imo to those assigned. sb can have 4-5dd j10dd or any other combo draw. also, sb can play kk aq aa as a "decent player" will feel like he has the nuts on this board and may want to disguise his hand. when bb c/r its easy c/r field on the turn.

again if this was early position battle i can concede easily, but i'd sleep much better at night c/c or even bet/folding 9 river then check/folding and thinking 1 out of 19 times cdc will not have a set?

i havent slept for 35 hours so let me know if this is really really off
05-27-2010 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
Please be howmany, please be howmany!
well aside from the fact im not at commerce you should know it wasnt me bc its a post about folding trips which is obviously impossible. when you have 3 of a kind and its not a winning hand bc ur opponent made a straight on the river thats fine, you pay him his money and move on to the next hand.
05-28-2010 , 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOWMANY
well aside from the fact im not at commerce you should know it wasnt me bc its a post about folding trips which is obviously impossible. when you have 3 of a kind and its not a winning hand bc ur opponent made a straight on the river thats fine, you pay him his money and move on to the next hand.
well that only leaves one other person that fits that description.
06-01-2010 , 01:05 AM
results?
06-01-2010 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubonicplay
results?
ill lay 20-1 he had jkdd if ur interested
06-01-2010 , 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Daddy Cool

bb got the KJdd and the pot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK1248
ill lay 20-1 he had jkdd if ur interested
I'll lay 1000-1
06-01-2010 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheRail15
I'll lay 1000-1
ill bet 1$ in case of typo
06-01-2010 , 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK1248
ill bet 1$ in case of typo
booked.

      
m