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QQ big 3 way pot QQ big 3 way pot

05-19-2010 , 12:01 PM
late night/early morning 80/160 game playing 5 handed. my stack has been up and down all night but generally doing well.

sb is a decent regular, wins in the mid stakes pokerstars games.
bb is a strong regular who also wins in the mid stakes pokerstars games and 2p2er who's game i respect and i suspect his read is the same for me.
we all know each other

i raise on the button with QQ. sb 3bets. bb calls two cold. i cap it up and they both call.

flop is Q62

checked to me and i bet. sb calls. bb checkraises. i typically will 3bet in this spot, but decide to mix it up and call to raise the turn. sb calls.

turn is the 9

sb checks. bb bets. i raise. sb now check-3-bets. bb calls two cold and i cap and they call.

river is the T

sb checks. bb checks. i bet. sb calls and bb now checkraises. aiyaaa! is there ever a time to fold top set in a 20+bb pot? or lol trivially easy pay off?
05-19-2010 , 12:11 PM
never fold..................u lose to kj suited and j8 suited? 78 suited?. i might 3 bet against some opponents :P
05-19-2010 , 01:01 PM
Wow. What a spot. I mean when I'm in this spot I throw in a call so quickly but I guess thinking about it now it's hard to imagine your hand being good more than 5% of the time. He played his hand like a draw the entire hand and then check raised the river. So he either got there with his KdJd or 8d7d or he's attempting some ridiculous bluff. On the other hand, if he is the real tricky type and tries to give you a different look with 666 or 999 then you might be good like 10% of the time. Problem is the sb probably has a set so that decreases the chances of the bb having a set. Ugh. I call. And hate it a lot.
05-19-2010 , 01:01 PM
every time ive tried a suicidal bluff in a spot like this where i knew they knew i had to have the nuts they called and then saw that i did not have the nuts and in fact had nothing. i would suggest doing the same thing that my opponents do bc if villain is in fact expert as you suggest hes probably more than capable of extremely rare kamikaze bluffs trying to get you off a monster hand in a huge protected pot.

additional reasons for calling:
[x]limit holdem
[x]set
05-19-2010 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOWMANY
every time ive tried a suicidal bluff in a spot like this where i knew they knew i had to have the nuts they called and then saw that i did not have the nuts and in fact had nothing. i would suggest doing the same thing that my opponents do bc if villain is in fact expert as you suggest hes probably more than capable of extremely rare kamikaze bluffs trying to get you off a monster hand in a huge protected pot.

additional reasons for calling:
[x]limit holdem
[x]set
I mean bb has KdJd Jd8d 8d7d everytime...and I still call
05-19-2010 , 03:41 PM
gross-obviously call tho
05-19-2010 , 04:10 PM
Ya still call can't fold. Everytime I try to think about folding I end up calling anyways so I'll agree with calling quickly to save the headache and stress.
05-19-2010 , 04:59 PM
Interesting hand.

Must call.

Post the results - would like to know what everybody had and why they were so raise-happy.
05-19-2010 , 05:27 PM
you def don't win 5% of the time.

ez call.
05-19-2010 , 10:55 PM
Pretty sure I'd fold and get shown a bluff.
05-20-2010 , 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathDonkey
Pretty sure I'd fold and get shown a bluff.
I was making that play before you were BORN, young man. Practically invented it.
05-20-2010 , 02:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOWMANY
every time ive tried a suicidal bluff in a spot like this where i knew they knew i had to have the nuts they called and then saw that i did not have the nuts and in fact had nothing. i would suggest doing the same thing that my opponents do bc if villain is in fact expert as you suggest hes probably more than capable of extremely rare kamikaze bluffs trying to get you off a monster hand in a huge protected pot.

additional reasons for calling:
[x]limit holdem
[x]set
sick post
05-20-2010 , 07:20 AM
as a master of folding the best hand in these spots, i insta fold any 2 pair and dont think twice and i pay off with any set and then call xerok or msg schneider immediately and tell them to kill me and how awful i run and how tuanlee always hits these rivers vs me and how i want to kill him.
05-20-2010 , 08:02 AM
How can you ever fold top set in this spot, KJ is like the only hand people could have that beat you here. I cant see either having 78 or J8. Online against alot of people this is fistpump 3ball lawl
05-20-2010 , 08:37 AM
you guys are insane if you are even thinking about 3betting the river vs just about anybody except the most truly crazy or ******ed. so i beg to differ on "against a lot of people"
05-20-2010 , 01:41 PM
How often can somebody really have a straight here? I mean really? If you describe them as good players?
05-20-2010 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychobingo
How often can somebody really have a straight here? I mean really? If you describe them as good players?
like 99% of the time? i mean how often can he have anything other than KdJd?
05-20-2010 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychobingo
How often can somebody really have a straight here? I mean really? If you describe them as good players?
How can you have anything but a straight if you're a good player? Think about it. Playing 78dd, KJdd this way seems completely reasonable, much more reasonable than playing any other hand like this.
05-20-2010 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete
like 99% of the time? i mean how often can he have anything other than KdJd?
Or J8dd or 87dd.

I mean if I'm QQ guy I'm still calling just in case my opponent is more ******ed than I thought and decided to checkraise the river optimistically for value with QT or like T9dd hoping to be against KK and AQ/Q9 or something especially after reading this thread and people thinking that QQ is a 3-bet a lot of the time (which would then perhaps imply that these same people think a good-playing BB can checkraise more than a straight on this board/action, for value, meaning they'd be doing it with QT themselves...). Also of course then I'm calling just in case the BB is wily enough to try some sick bluff here just in case he is aware I really would only think he can possibly have a straight.
05-20-2010 , 03:31 PM
3betting this river seems like suicide...
05-20-2010 , 03:59 PM
lol @ 3betting river against someone who can tie their shoes.
05-20-2010 , 06:59 PM
I'm not trying to be a jackass here at all, but this thread is like kinda dumb. 3 betting is stone cold just not even an option, folding might be an option, but no, lets be honest none of us are ever folding. Its a call for anyone with a brain.
05-20-2010 , 07:22 PM
i would not be surprised if CDC folded here...

i'd call tho
05-20-2010 , 08:08 PM
Im not saying 3bet is the standard line, but you find plenty guys that overplay worse sets in this spot. That aside, im never folding and calling super often. I didnt even notice that there was a fldraw on the flop, thought it was backdoor. Now obviously i like calling way better and 3betting way less.
05-20-2010 , 11:33 PM
I think you never ever see a crazy bluff here..

The only time you can ever 3-way check/raise bluff the river (even if you have no fold equity really) with some plausability is if one of the two players is only semi-strong, and suspect will fold with a decent %, even if one of the players is likely very strong and can only make a hero laydown if they rationalize "you can never be bluffing".

When BOTH players are obviously holding MONSTERS, it is just raw suicide. Especially when what you are repping wouldn't be clear to all opponents (some people think , ah two pair maybe , I call)
Internet, MAYBE because of an anger click , or an impulse **** you.. But live, it just doesnt happen unless the guy is VISUALLY steaming off his face.

I think you DO extremly rarely see a massively misplayed T9dd, and even rarer a multistreet massive misplay by QTo(only 2 combos).. But that's about it..

If there's no read of previous overplaying, 1 in 20? No way..

I wouldnt even contemplate it at the moment, but it's a fold. UNLESS the guy has a history of overplaying..
Some very good players can overplay their monsters with a surprisingly high frequency.
I can think of multiple big winners that I would not fold this to.

Last edited by Heisenb3rg; 05-20-2010 at 11:38 PM.

      
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