http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...cammed-881976/

Regards,
IHateJuice

Sorry if you got scammed, gl

Can you provide more information on your "friend" watching on TeamViewer? Like, is this a long-time friend? Does he have any connection to MissNikita's location?

Yeah, if this friend just started being buddy buddy with you in the last few months and has asked to sweat a few sessions, and has watched a few and gained your confidence and then boom. Seems like a fairly easy scam for quite a bit of money, although it takes some effort and obviously someone with the money.

Going through the 500/1k hands I don't see anything that looks suspect at all. 2/4 probably looks a little different.

Well, it's kinda like that, and yes, they knew each other well. I know I'm completely dumb for allowing that to happen, no excuses But I can't help it now, so I rather look at the chance to get the money back instead of hating myself for losing it.

And yeah, the main cheating did actually happen at 2/4.

IHateJuice

After looking through half of the 2/4 hand it doesn't look like he's cheating. His play is unorthodox and juice ran bad but I just don't see much else (I'm EBC123 on FT fwiw).

On the other hand, I find the "I play small NL but I'm going to jump to 2k/4k Limit HU to play an expert" pretty unbelievable.

Regardless, FT SHOULD be able to figure out the truth in short order.

Yeah I mean looks like you just lost but never know. But hopefully not as its happened to me and it sucks. I do find it LMAO funny that one of the biggest team colluders online is posting that he was cheated. I mean if you were do you expect much sympathy?

wat?

Explain? Team colluders?

This is the 3rd or 4th time that I've seen this claim that the Germans are colluding in some way (especially weird claim for people largely playing hu); have seen no evidence supporting it (but haven't exactly been looking).

As long as they don't start working with the Austrians we will all be fine.

That's obviously complete BS. I can only speak for the current german limit elite (deprimiert, fortuna, kobeyard and me), but we would never do anything to get an unfair advantage over another player. We have the highest morals you can imagine. Apart from that we have a huge rivalry going on. We don't even share reads or discuss hands together, because everyone of us is so ambitious and wants to be the best.
Badmouthing us is just RIDICULOUS, you will have a hard time finding players with better manners out there.

Regards,
IHateJuice

Juice - since this has been brought up numerous times can you at least comment on your colluding? For example you had Jama post in the other thread? His 42 hand 48k win against deprimiert, was that a chip dump done to pay back debts for previous team play? His HS stats where he dumps at 1k/2k read him as 0% looser then all the other players at that limit. How often do you reward profits amongst your group by dumping? What is your transfer history amongst this group of players? Isnt it true you frequently take pieces of them when they play HS opponents? Do you or do you not do this across multiple sites?

Do you consider fronting money for someone to play someone that you can not and then sweating and coaching them through skype cheating?

To chime in on the "germans are too good at LHE and must be cheating" part of the thread - I had a nice discussion with OneTimePls in vegas this summer and he basically said that all the high stakes german guys know each other, and have some level of communication, but mostly just in a friendly / rivalry way. He also mentioned some super elite german teacher guy who helped most of them to get as good as they are that doesn't really play anymore, that I don't know much about, but thought that was kinda interesting. Apologies Alex if I misremembered any of the conversation. They all seem like pretty good guys to me /shrug

I met a PLO pro from germany at the wsop who claimed there's a german poker pro house/community where a lot of the top players in the world in germany all live and play poker in one area.

He said schafsheep is part of that team is a nice guy *shrug*..

From playing with most of them thousands of hands I think there's a very low chance of them colluding. They are all very respetful/moral when I chat with them off and on the tables (exception being kobeyard obviously, whos not so nice at the tables).
I think they are all skilled enough to beat those games without collusion and their records are about what id expect just from a bunch of good players getting good cards.

As for OP, sucks to hear man... Hope you get it resolved.. VERRY expensive lesson. Good for anyone who plays high stakes HU to consider

Seriously, you say colluding, but neither do I know where this has been "brought up numerous times", nor do I know why. But I will tell you the facts.

- We do share at limit 2k/4k, and 2k/4k only. Also, we have never sat at the same table at 2k/4k.
- After the share, we use player transfer. Why would anybody be that dumb and use chip dumping?
- We never sweat each other, as we are all very ambitious and play against each other at our regular limits like 1k/2k every day. Sharing that kind of information with another regular would be like cutting our own flesh.
- As only FTP offers 2k/4k and we are all rolled for 1k2k, we do not share at any other site.

Yes, as I said I do consider that cheating. 2v1 is always cheating.

Regarding a "poker house", I can't give you a guarantee there as I haven't been to Vegas yet, so I don't know whats happening there. Nevertheless I am willing to vouch for them on every other day of the year.

Regards,
IHateJuice

I met a German Badugi player in an AOL chat room last summer who claimed that all the elite players sit at a large circular table with everyone's right hand on their mouse and their left on their neighbor's ding-dong. He claimed he joined them once but caught too many bad beats.

They all started through PokerStrategy, which started as a LHE only, German only poker forum. Not sure if he meant me as the "super teacher guy", I did create the initial content, a lot of coaching / videos etc, but have been pretty inactive since late 2007.

Anyways, the reason why the really became as good as they are is through constant improvement, analysis and exchange of ideas & conepts.

So your the head nazi then.

lol

People are not doing well in this thread. Sorry for your loss and I hope FT is able to rectify the situation. The teamviewer situation probably is against their TOS even though you were only allowing the person to watch and not asking for advice.

FYP

Props for how well they did it but lets not turn a blind eye here. Its like the elephant in the room.

By the way I am not doubting that each one has individual ability since I played with some of them at the medium stakes a while back. Definitely formidable opponents but there are a number of players who noticed some extreme discrepencies during higher stakes matches with sudden variations in play and timing tells after breaks. This COULD be super quick mid match adaptation but anything is possible. Either way they got to the top. Kudos.

On its own, the hand history evidence (somewhat anomalous results, a few questionable plays) clearly does not support cheating. These kind of sessions happen. However, when we include the prior knowledge that for this particular session someone else was viewing hero's hole cards, I think we can be fairly confident that cheating occurred.

Even if they/he were blatantly obvious about it, you wouldn't have any statistically significant deviations in key stats (WtSD, W$SD, river AF) over such a small sample. The only hope you would have of getting proof of cheating would be to get the god-mode record of the match from FTP, and that's not going to happen.

good luck,

your friendly neighborhood jui.

Agreed..

Unless they full on admit to it, or can get records of the verbal transaction that took place, I think theres about a 0.1% chance that you'll get a refund of any kind.