NORMALLY, and MOST of the time stacking off with top pair, mid kicker is not good and should not be done, and its something that almost all the time I wont do.

BUT there was a BIG but in that hand.

1. Villain had been donking around in previous hands

2. Villains donk 56 open limp first to act, then donk check slowplay first to act on flop and postflop on such a extremely drawy board

3. Villains donk shove on the river, when combined with points 1 and 2 above, made it look nlike donk was bluff shoving a busted draw, or bottom to middle pair, or was spazzing out on Q2 thru Q9 just like so many other donks have done on minted poker micro's so many times.

4. If donk had reraised on the turn, and I flat call or fold the turn depending on how big his reraise, and then he shoves the river, then I would have easily folded.

Based on the above points, is it right or correct to call: technically yes. 4 times out of 7 timnes I win if I call in that situation.

thats said, just because its technically correct and right to call and a semi thin +EV call, doesnbt mean I cant fold and wait for a better spot. I did have aq 35k stack. I could have folded and waited for a better spot then a I win 4 times out of 7 times when if I call ,here spot, just like altho limping was ok there, I could have folded.

The reason why I did limp, and make the river call, when it was ok to do so, was I was playing agressively to win. 4 out of 7 times when I make that river call in that kind of specific limited situation, I win and now I have a 67 to 69k stack with blinds 75/150

what I forgot, was that 67 to 69k is OVERKILL. as 35k at 75/150 is PLENTY.

So altho my limp and river call was technically ok 4 out of 7 times in this limited specific situation, It was probably BAD CHIP STACK MANAGEMENT

But even tho it was bad chip stack management. The call itself was technically ok, and I did have logical reasons for why I made the call.

I am not a non thinking fish donk who says " oh look I have top pair QT, I duh have the best hand" and then auto instant snap calls, without thinking.

I thought for a while, I wanted to make the right call/fold. I just Honestly truly didnt see any way that I was beat, unless villain donk open limped, then flopped a monster, then donk slowplay a monster on a extremely drawy board, all the way to the river, and then donk shove the river.

I really didnt think that was bloody dam likely.

LIke I said I technically could have folded altho it was ok to call, to find a better spot. And it was bad chip stack management.

MOST ALMOST ALL the time you will NOT see me stack off a big giant stack on top pair middle kicker. And the extremely rare few times I do, I would have a dam good reason for doing so logic wise.

I told you once in the everleaf thread, in the internet poker section, that the only ok place for your post and the video you are posting is in BBV.

The everleaf thread, and this thread, and any other threads out side of BBV is NOT BBV, and is not an ok place to post that video, and any other video's like it.

Do NOT NOT continue to post your post like this, or your posting 2 or 3 year old vids outside BBV.

Mark, or any other mod, can you delete the quoted post above. And can you email a warning telling this guy to stop posting 2.5 year old vids of me all over the forums, and to stick to BBV for that kind of stuff.

JJ < AJ off all in preflop out in the $1 $25 GTD.

was down to 10 x BB stack, previous vllain open raised QT suited to 325 a little over 3 x BB preflop on the button. I thought he was stealing and raising wide, so I reraised my KJ suited all in preflop over his QT raise, and the villain called and my hand held up.

Then when I was up to 23 x BB stack another villain open raised AJ on the SB. I had him on 77 to TT, A9 to AJ, KQ,KJ as his range, and I figured that after what I did with the KJ hand a few hands ago, that he would call if I reraised JJ all in on him. So I shoved with JJ on the BB, and he snap calls with AJ. and he hits a A on the turn, and out I go.

last tourney of the First $50 part of the $100 stake. Its the $2 super deep stack $100 GTD.

After this tourney, will do a summary report, on number of tourneys played, the average buy in cost of each tourney. The gross profit, the net profit, a list of each cash, and the current Bankroll.

Also will post some sharkscope info.

Then after this, Dwiele will send me the 2nd $50, if he is satisfied with the stake, so far, and then I will play thru the 2nd $50 of the $100 stake.

busted out in 8th place at the final table of the $2 $100 GTD for $5, all thanks to DONK and Chip squaters.

first there was chip squaters that were either gona get shove AA or blind out, that caused the blinds to get to 4k/8k, by the time of the final table.

Then the 30k 4.5 x BB shorty stacks kept on sucking out, over and over. so the blinds got up to 5k/10k 8 handed at the final table.

then a chip squater gets knocked down to 4k. and decides to chip squat blind out, and stays alive for 1 blinds orbit. and then blinds are like 6k/12k handed.

Then a 60k stack decides to DONk limp early position with KJ suited, instead of just shoving preflop like he should have.

If he shoves like he should have, I fold my 44, and let 1 of the big stacks take him out.

but oh no he has to donk limp a 5 x BB stack early position with KJ

Then I shove my 44 63k stack on the button, and of course KJ donk limper snap auto instant calls. And out I go, all because of the stupid donk, and the donk chip squaters.

if not for them, I would have easily finished 3rd to 5th, instead of 8th.

totally rediculous to have the blinds be 6k/12k 8 handed at the final table at the beginning of the final table.

normally the blinds are 2.5k/5k at the finaltable, and 4k/8k at worst at the beginning of the final table

Man chip squaters are really annoying

Go figure the DONK that Donk limped KJ suited with 5 x BB stack in early position that DONKed me out in 8th or 9th place, finished 1st and won the whole thing.

just not right.

Mike you definitely dwell too much on what you believe other players "ought to" do, rather than what they're actually likely to do. You'll have more success, and just as importantly more enjoyment, if you learn to focus on the latter.

The KJ limper for example: He's never folding to your shove. Of course he shouldn't be limping KJ there, but he did it because he sucks. He's also limping any Ace, any PP and any two pretty picture cards. And he's never folding any of them. That range is ahead of your 44, though you're often getting good odds to shove anyway. Spots like that will happen every time you get even semi deep in a micro MTT, and all you can do is consider what his range is and whether you have good equity against it. If you get upset when he turns over a hand like KJ and gets there, you're going to hate poker. And you really ought to be enjoying it, because otherwise what's the point?

Fun is under rated. If you can find ways to increase the fun element of anything you do, you'll often become better at it. Plus, life's too short.

GL man

I know he isnt gona fold KJ there. and if he had folded KJ, after limping it, that would be a even worse play by him.

But when he limped KJ(which was terrible to do) He forced me to have to shove. with blinds and antes and 1 or 2 limpers in the pot, thats like 40k in the preflop pot. If I shove 44, and everyone folds(not likely)I practically double up my 5.5 to 6 x BB stack. And if I am called, I am likely in a coinflip with a 53% chance to win, to tripple up, which means I am getting 3 to 1 pot odds to shove, which means I have to shove 44 there.

And I cant fold 44 preflop and try to wait for a better spot and hope that I dont get a string of 72 type crap hands. 44 is the best I am likely to get, in the next 5 or 6 hands probability wise.

I would have much prefered had he shoved his KJ preflop, because then I could have folded and let a big stack call him, because a big stack might bust him out, and because calling with 44 would not have been a good call.

Also if I shoved 44 early position, and he called with KJ suited, and beat me,I would not be upset with him calling with KJ, and beat me, because then its not his stupidity that is beating me, but him playing good that is beating me.

And that ties into the fun thing you mention, I have more fun when I win legit against non donks, and beat donks, and dont get beat by donks, and when I get beat legit by good players.

I have said this before: beat me, crush me, outplay me, beat me legit, squish me, stomp,pound.crush me into the felt, do whatever you want, but whatever you do DONT DONK BEAT ME OUT LIKE 20 TIMES IN A ROW,etc.

that kind of attitude may lead to me having fun at times while not having as much fun at other times, and may not be as profitable.

But overall I do have fun with that attitude.

thats why there are many who say like NOFX that I probably belong somewhere between the $7 to $14 stakes, because there are less donks to annoy me at times. And while there are less donks, which would seem to reduce profitability, there are actually a good deal of below average to average to barely slightly above average fish donks, that are not poker idiot goof off clown donks, that I can outplay and beat, at lower risk, and at LOWER VARIANCE.

BIG DONKS and VARIANCE are NOT my friends. and there is more extreme DONKS, and VARIANCE at micro, and low stakes, then there is at higher stakes. Thats because at mcirostakes, and lower stakes, players make more extreme variance moves, many of which are stupid. While at higher stakes, players make better, low variance moves.

So some might ask, then why not play higher stakes?

well thats already been covered as to why I am needing a stake at the beginning of the staking thread, I opened up in the marketplace, and at the beginning of this thread.

But also I am a firm believer, that 1 should beat lower stakes before moving up. I have beaten all these lower stakes before en route to playing at $8 to $12 stakes in the past, and I am doing it again

Also it would be bad bankroll management to jump to higher stakes.

But that said, I would much prefer to play at higher stakes, where I would probably have more fun.

Also I had more fun playing the higher stakes, before I had to withdraw the $1675 I had grinded up from $25 on stars, after the black friday thing.

Also I was more profitable at the $2 to $4 stakes then I was at the micro stakes

But all that said, you do make a good point, and its a point others have also made. Its just easier said then done applying the good point you made.

While I am in the micro's, I will try to apply the point you made. I may not be that successful. But I will still try.

Also I have been trying and working on my attitude. Believe it or not, my attitude is way better then it used to be, and I have more fun now, then I used to have in the past.

Played 33 tourney's according to sharkscope. Average buy in is $2 played thru 1st $50 part of the $100 stake. Total bankroll is at $99.54(according to minted poker cashier)

Net profit of $49.54

Dwiele if you are satisfied with the stake so far, then you can transfer the 2nd $50 part of the $100 stake to me.

Thanks for being my backer,staker, and staking me.

I am glad that I am making us a nice profit so far

And to those who have followed along, I hope this has been both entertaining, educational, helped to improve peoples game's.

Also thanks for the helpful comments, and support.

Mike DH

Here are some sick good stats for the stake so far:

Username Games Played Av. Profit Av. Stake Av. ROI Total Profit Form Ability /100 Network Filter
MikelDH1 33 $1 $2 92% $47 - 71 Everleaf x


Miscellaneous Data
Total Cashes First Game (PDT) Last Game (PDT) Total Rake Total ROI (?) ITM (?) Av. Entrants Turbo Ratio (?) Av. % of field beaten
$103 25-Aug-11 5-Sep-11 $4 84.39% 48.48% 55.24 0.0% 58.56%

Glad to see you doing well - Keep it up!

Just got $96 cents in RB(rakeback) from minted poker, so that makes the Bankroll go from $99.54 to $100.50

Thank you

havent heard from Dwiele my backer,staker, and still trying to get a hold of him, but so far he hasnt answer this thread, emails,etc. Its only been 1 1/2 to 3 days, so maybe he is busy.

Dwiele just sent me a message on skype. He wants me to just grind the $150 bankroll(it will be $150 when he transfers the 2nd $50 part of the 2 $50 parts of the $100 stake(that will probably happen tommorrow)

He wants me to play the $$1 and $2 rebuys, the $2 to $3 buy ins and take occasional shots at the $3 rebuys and $4 to $5 GTD's(when I have his permission to take shots)

This was Dwiele's idea, suggestion, and what he wants me to do. I didnt ask him if I could do that, The reason why I say that, is I dont want people to think I asked,pestered Dwiele, into changing the terms of the stake.

So later today, or tommorrow Dwiele will acknowledge, confirm that we are slightly changing the terms of the stake, according to what I have said here, repeating what he told me.

So with that in mind, until Dwiele deposits the 2nd $50 and confirms what I have said here.

I will play the $1 and $2 buy ins, because that is good bankroll management for $100, until Dwiele confirms what I have said, and transfers the 2nd $50 part of the 2 $50 parts of the $100 stake, thus makiing the Bankroll $150

with blinds 10/20 in the $2 super deep stack $100 GTD, I raised AK suited to 95 over 1 or 2 limpers, and got 1 caller, and then villain, who had been extremely loose agressive fish donkish, reraised me to about 300 or 400 preflop. So I reraised him all in preflop figuring he had AT suited, AJ, AQ, KQ, etc, and that he might probably call me with that range.

I lost a coinflip to his QQ. If he wasnt fish donking around, I flat call his 3 bet, instead of putting him in. And I figured if he called, I am in a coinflip at worst, and likely up against AT,AJ,AQ,KQ etc

But hey even fish donks wake up with monsters like QQ, once in a while at the micro levels

You call way too many players fish and donks. While it may be true that they are fish and donks, you just simply lost a flip. Are you really going to fold AK preflop at any time during a tournament? Against anybody?

and your oversimplifying the situation. Just because it could be a simple flip with AK suited, doesnt mean it is or will be.

In that hand with the AK suited hand, its important to establish what their hand range is, and whether they are a shark,average player,fish, fish donk,goof off donk,etc. That will also help determine what their range is.

You detyermine what kind of player they are, by watching previous hands.

in this example the player was extremely loose and agressive, and was in my opinion "donking around"

this enabled me to hand rangehim. Now the next step, is to decide what they will do with that range.

I put the villain on AT,AJ,AQ,KQ type range since they reraised me to 400. A lot of fish donks like the player I was watching will reraise with hands like AT,KJ etc.

So the next question, is what would he do, if I reraised or shoved all in on him? what would he do if I flat call him?

The naswer is I thought he would call, if I reraised or shoved over his reraise with a range my AK beats. I know my AK suited is likely ahead of his range.

The problem with flat calling, or reraising, and him flat calling, is if I miss the flop, his extremely agressive play is gona take the pot away from my hand which is better then his hand.

So the best option IF he will call, is to shove AK preflop over his reraise.


Now again the reason why its important to identify what kind of player villain is and what range he has, and what he would do with it, is if let say he wasnt a donk. What if he had always played solid ABC poker, never donked around.

Ok so I raise my AK suited. Then he reraises to 400. Now I am gona put villains range on AK,AQ,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA. Now does my AK fare well vs that range all in preflop? no. if I shove AK, will villain call? yes will I be in a coinflip at extreme best? yes.

Ok what if I reraise? he probably reraises me back, or shoves all in preflop, Not good.

what if I flat call, see the flop? there is a good chance I either hit the flop and beat him, or overcards hit the board, and I can semi bluff steal the pot from him postflop

So according to the ABC villain, the the best play would be to flat call with AK.

You cant just see AK suited, and say I got AK suited, I am now gona shove it, without thinking,because hey I got AK suited.

that would be bad, and it seems thats what your saying when you say that its just a simple AK coinflip.

Well it isnt, or shouldnt be just a simple AK coinflip.

And to answer your question. There are some extremely rare limited times when I will fold AK preflop to a all in preflop.

And example of asuch a case. If I had observed a ultimate tight nit villain play tight nit ABC poker for a long time, reraise me, then 4 or 5 bet reraise my AK all in preflop with effectivfe stack sizes 500 x BB stacks, I would easily fold. And it would be a right fold to malke.

Also most of the time I am not folding AK. But even though I am not folding AK most of the time, doesnt mean I have to get it all in preflop, if I am able to do so.

If someone posted a AK all in coinflip bust out, with stack sizes 200 x BB stack sizes, and they didnt have a good reason for doing so, I would say they played the AK badly.

I had a good reason to get AK all in preflop. If I didnt have a good reason, I would have flat called 300 to 400 preflop and seen a flop. If I had just mindlessly said " I have AK, the best hand, shove", and then mindlessly shoved AK, I would deserve to have everyone here tell me I played the hand wrong

So AK is not as simple as you make it out to be.

It's simple in the Everleaf tournaments. You're almost never deepstacked. I agree that, when deep stacked, folding AK can be the right play. But most of the time in a tournament, you'll hover around the 10-40 big blind area. Will you get a better chance to double up when facing a reraise, even against an ABC player? Probably not. But that's why we have the all-in move. The all-in move can make an ABC player fold even up to JJ. And the odds are so much smaller that any player has AA or KK when we hold AK.

Also with AK, we can't forget table dynamics and positioning. Maybe if we're UTG and a nit or ABC player reraises from the SB, we could fold. Most of the time we won't have that situation. From what I understand, you were in MP and villain was probably in the blinds. Perfect re-squeeze opportunity. I'd shove all day against 99% of poker players in that spot if I were you.

ok shipped 50,

my message might have been unclear the other night..

you can play the $1 rebuys as much as you want, granted you don't spew in the rebuy period (like i do ). the total bi amount would be $3 for the initial bi, one rebuy and one addon. just play these like a regular freezeout, or rebuy occasionally if you're still playin fine.

$2 rebuys would be more of the shots. $6 (total buy in) on a 150 roll is still a little iffy. lets hold off on rebuys over 2 for now..

i'd prefer your average buy in to be around 2-3 right (closer to 2) now for the time being, with a shot or two at $4-6 bi's per week.


*i brought up the rebuy thing because i realized a lot of the tournies on there are rebuys. and rebuys are a lot better value.

let me know if have any questions

gl mike

I am in total complete agreement with you.

Micro rebuys are great if you do the buy in, 1 add on to start 1 or 2 rebuys and then 1 add on at the break, and if your skill is good enough to justify all that, and or the other players are so bad, to justify all that.

Also altho rebuys may seem to cost more and have more variance, they actually kill variance, because as long as play somewhere between a rebuy and a freezeout, your gona get it in good, and even if bad beat out, you can just rebuy.

For that reason, I like rebuys. But can only afford the $1 rebuys, and 1 or 2 shots at $2 rebuys per 2 weeks.

As to taking shots at $4 to $6 tourneys, I will only take shots every 1 per every 1 or 2 weeks.

I know you said 1 or 2 per week, but to me thats to frequent, until I get the roll up to $175 to $185 to $200. After that, I can take shots a little tiny bit more frequently.

A donk, donk limped AA behind donk limpers who limped in front, on a limp happy passive table unlikely to pay the AA donk limp trapper off. I of course wake up with a shove squeezable 44 on the button to try to pick up the blinds, antes, limp ins, with the blinds 200/400, and going to go up to 300/600 in 1 hand, with my 8k 20 x BB stack, soon to be a 13 x BB 8k stack. And of course I shove, and out I go all thanks to AA donk limp trapper.

Big 39k stack was raising on the cutoff. I had a 10k stack. The blinds were 300/600 and were gona go up shortly. I had A7 suited. I thought Big stack might be stealing with a wide range on the bubble. I had also reraised AK all in 1 time, shoved AK, and 88, each time everybody seeing the good hands I was shoving. So I reraised all in preflop to resteal from big stack. Big stack actually woke up with AK and out I went in 11th place in the $1 rebuy $100 GTD. Did the buy in, 1 add on, to start, and 1 add on at the break, for a total of $3.

The 2 bad beats, and the 1 coinflip beat I took for a totally of 3 beats, is really what kept me from cashing. If I have a bigger stack size, I dont resteal from the big stack who looked to be stealing with a wide range in the cut off

this was in the $3 super deep stack $200 GTD

VARIANCE IS NOT MY FRIEND:

BAD BEAT Bnumber 1: on turn get a fullhouse with 55, river 9 gives 77 a better full house

BAD BEAT number 2 AT suited loses to JT off all in preflop

BAD beat number 3 AK all in preflop

BAD beat number 4 AQ all in preflop

BAD BEAT number 5 AQ all in preflop

2 coinjflip beats:

KQ suited vs A2 off I had KQ suited(I call it a coinflip because its pretty close to a coinflip)

KQ suited vs pocket( I had KQ suited)

that was before the Add on break

After the Add onj break:

Bad beat number 6:

AA(me) loses to 99,

Blinds 150.300 2 limpers, then 99 limps behind. I raise to 1350. 99 limp reraises me all in, I call with my 9k stack with AA. 99 hits trips and out I go.

This was in the $2 rebuy $200 GTD.

Total cost: $6

gave out 1 coinflip beat, and gave out no bad beats, and never got it in bad, and called. Worst hand shoved, or called with is A8 suited, and KQ off

and my reward for playing so well, this BS.

If not for this BS, this tourney would have been mine.

MORE BS PLEASE