Quote:
Originally Posted by brownieattack
OMG. No idea where to start with this.
Mike, you have to stop letting your emotions get to you during the game. Turn off the chat and just focus. If you take a bad beat, forget about it. The QT play from above? Don't call the shove. You have TP weak kicker and a guy called your turn bet with the Q showing. That's when you shut down. And when he shoves? He definitely has you beat. You have to fold and preserve your chips for a better spot, when it isn't as obvious that you're beat. (And btw, there is no better straight out there)
I didnt say there was a better straight there, I said his villains slowplay was stupid, because he might get beat by a better straight or a flush by having a 7 or a spade or a club hit the board
I am only going to address this part of your quote.
As to the comments, I made in chat. I wasnt even involved in those hands. I was making fun of the donks by making the comments like: wow nice 85 x BB DONK shove preflop. Or nice KT call of a 4.5 x BB under gun raise preflop.
As to the call I made, I am pretty sure its right MOST of the time in that situation.
and here is why:
1. in these micro's I have seen these fish donks spazz out on middle pair, and Q2. examples of this: a number of tourneys ago, villain limps in with J8 suited. flops top pair of Jacks.I have him dominated with QJ. it gets into a reraising battle and all in he goes and loses. Another example: J9 off raises under gun.20k stack I flat call with AJ suited. with 20k stack A jack hits with a dry rainbow board. I check slowplay. villain bets 500 pot. I check the turn, villain bets 1500, I check reraise all in, villain calls and gets his J9 beat.
This kind of stuff, happens ALL THE TIME. thats why when I folded top pair J k kicker, for the same reason you say to fold, everybody said that it was a bad fold. I also had a 35k stack in that situation. So the KJ situtaion is very similar.You would have argued based on what your telling me here, that I should have folded, Top pair of J's K kicker. I also thought the same as you, which is why I folded my top pair of J's K kicker when I had a 35k stack. But you are wrong, and I was wrong, everybody made a good point, on why I should NOT have folded top pair of J's K kicker: that they are DONKS until they prove otherwise.
So many times when I call there villain will have middle pair K kicker, or top pair of Q's 2 thru 9 kicker, so many times.
2.there was only a 3 card flopped straight. which would mean he would have to have 56, and not only that, but he would have had to have DONK open limped 56 first to act, slowplayed it first to act postflop to the river, thus risking getting beat by a flush or straight, and then shove the river thus risking NOT getting paid off.
a. flopping a nut straight is rare. of course it happens, but its a uncommon to rare occurrence when it does happen.
b. DONK couldnt have played it any more stupidly. In mciro donk stakes, yeah donks will open limp 56 all the time. but usually fish have the sense not to check slowplay the straight on such a extrmely drawy board and risk a 7 or a spade hitting the board thus maybe giving some one else a better straight or a flush. and even if they are stupid enough to give a free card on the flop. The fish are usually not stupid nenough to then also check give a free card on the turn, where again if the Q dont hit and if I check behind(something I would not do, would bet to protect hand from draw)then again donk risk a 7 or a spade or a club hitting the board, and getting beat by a better straight or flush.
c. while donk may do some stupid things. its the combined affect. I am simply NOT gona put villain on open limping 56, flopping a nut straight with 56, donk slowplaying 56 all the way to the river, and then donk shoving the river.
not in a million years would I think I was beat by a straight with villains shove.
d. its more logical, and reasonable to think that villain had A2+ where his kicker connected with the board, or a small 22 thru 77 pocket pair that didnt hit a set(again why would he slowplay a set the whole way, if had a set)and even if he had a set, most of the time villain wont have a set in this situation, and a set, and 2 pair, and 56, is only a very small percentage of his range, possible but NOT PROBABLE, AND NOT LIKELY, or he had Q2, thru Q9
So I am ahead of like 69 to 83% of villains range 4 tro 5 times out of 7 times, when I call villains shove, in this situation, I WIN. well guess what I hit the 2 or 3 times out of 7 times chance that I lose. it comes with the territory of playing according to PROBABILITIES, and LIKELYHOODS
3. also villain could have been shoving midle pair, Q crap kicker like I said above. but also based on donks slowplay, it really does seem that on that extrmely drawy board, that villain could easily be shoving on a busted draw on the river
why else is villain checking giving free cards first to act on the flop and turn, on such extrmely drawy board? he wants to make a draw, and then when I bet, he is probably calling on bottom pair to or also likely has a draw. Oh look a 2 came on the river, that doesnt help any draws, guess his draw didnt get there. oh look villain is shoving on his bottom pair and busted draws(something that some spazzy super loose, hyper over agressive donks do quite often at these micro stakes.)
Do you see how, and why I would logically come to these conclusions.
And also I did consider folding, as I took my time to think about it just to make sure that my logic for calling wasnt flawed.
THe ONLY ONLY ONLY way I was beat, is IF IF villain was stupid enough to combinedly open limp 56, flop a nut straight, check slowplay first to act his small straight on the flop and turn and thus risk getting beat by a better straight and flush, and for villain to then donk shove the river. (THATS NOT BLOODY DAMN LIKELY OR PROBABLE) Or if villain had 2 pair(NOT BLOODY DAMN LIKELY OR PROBABLE) or if villain had trips(NOT BOODY DAMN LIKELY OR PROBABLE) or had my top pair outkicked(NOT BLOODY DAMN LIKLEY OR PROBABLE)
MOST LIKELY OR MOST PROBABLE: Villain had a busted draw, or bottom to middle pair, or a low pocket that didnt hit a set. or Q2 to Q9 top pair crap kicker, or KJ suited AIR
So according to probabilities, and lieklyhoods, there is about a 4 to 5 times out of 7 times chance that I win here, and a 2 or 3 times out of 7 times chance I lose here.
So thats why my call here was right. 4 or 5 times out of 7 times, this call is +EV
Now IF I had known that villain was capable of and was going to play that hand as stupidly as he did, then I would have been able to put him on possibly flopping a monster and then stupidly slowplaying it on such a extrmely draw board, and then donk shoving the river, and would have been able to fold.
But of course I had no way of knowing that.
now I do So like lifesonsrv, he gets a note.