h1-i like the donk but why not larger vs fish? i understand a small sizing 2 ways but i think this dynamic is much different? villain has way better hands on river to call with than this combo no? like boats, all suited straights (if he opens 54s), 99-1010, overs that unblock diamonds/hearts, 78. can't really see how his call can be good

Quote:
Originally Posted by yasuo
did you change your approach to the game from mid-2017 as the red line started to shoot up?

Yes

Can you elaborate on that?

Gl

Making the top 10 list makes losing this hand not hurt as bad. I think it's an easy fold against a lot of the weak regs at 200z, but it's probably close to indifferent against Clanty.

I think his turn sizing is good. He maybe could go smaller, but idk if that's better. In general, we tend to see smaller sizings in mw spots as protection because more important and using large sizings against two (relatively) uncapped ranges usually forces one to bet too narrow of a range. This particular card is gonna be really nice for BB, and he can probably donk as thin as pair + sd. Using a large size will force him to be too polar and check too frequently. Given that I'm gonna check back so much of my range on this turn, this doesn't bode well for him.

I can't slowplay turn that often. I do use an rng for basically every decision, but the frequency of better combos in my range is really low. I also probably shouldn't call every time. However, Clanty has sooooo many nice bluff candidates. Meh.

pretty sure KKd is close to 0% call on the river, RNG really ****ed you over if you had to click call, you generally want to block his value hands and none of the bluffs and absolute hand strength wise you're not even up there either

love me some mw pots

Yeah, fair enough.

My wording was unclear. My RNG comment was referring to the turn, but yes it's applicable to river too.

My diamond blocker is relatively insignificant here as I don't think he can peel K BDFD otf. 99/TT might be better, but I'm not convinced that he's never betting T8/98/T7 type hands ott.

I'm not sure how you expect to have many stronger combos in terms of absolute hand strength. Yes, they'll occasionally get slowplayed, but they (set +) just have to raise turn a lot imo vs this size. I also think I need two river sizings. The nutty combos will only sometimes fall into the smaller bet.

IDK. I could also get behind just folding every time, but I think Clanty (correctly) identifies this as a pretty spicy bluff spot :P. My call would be a complete punt against many people. In hindsight, I kinda am just leaning towards fold -- but I would be shocked if it's losing much vs hero.

wouldn't clanty have to be overbluffing by quite a bit to make this call +EV? I could be off here but it feels like when he leads turn with a fish in the hand he probably has less bluff than if he would do the same against regs

Also if you play your range in such a way that KK is very near the top of ur range then we should definitely pick blockers to call this massive overbet. You could raise KK some of the time too on turn so that on the river when you end up in this particular spot you don't feel like you're overfolding these type of holdings

Too much strat in this thread

Idk if he is overbluffing, but it is a spot where he has a plethora of bluff candidates (pair + straight blocker; counterfeited 2p). Turn raise is a fun idea. I'm more inclined to do that with TT/99 because they need slightly more protection and they also push more equity.

Yeah.. oops. I usually shy away from it, but this was a fun hand for which I may or may not deserve to get roasted . Sorry for the hijacking, Clanty.

i like the analysis of your hand but i mean vs this size u literally only have to defend like 27% of ur range and surely u have enough 99/1010 and nuts that protect ur small river size to fold KK

Good point. I definitely can't argue with that.

In for strat

GL OP!

Since when do you play cash?

do you know how hard it is to overbluff this river?
Clanty has a ton of valuebets there and he will always x/jam those. Even massive aggrotards won't bluff the river 40% of the time, calling with KKdx is terrible imo. With your explo sizing it's even worse, since it's possible clanty will explo valuebet as thin as 2x

You need to use the word explo Rapidesh, no offense but it's pretty clear you've never ran a sim, you probably don't have PIO so you don't know which lines, sizings and frequencies are exploitative, just because a bet is small doesn't mean it can be exploited, same with an overbet

how can shifty have a hand that beats 2x with that sizing? Is he betting fhs for that sizing with a fish in the pot?

I would be quite surprised if he could have a FH OTR even before betting.

why does he need to beat 2x with that sizing?

Where did u get the idea that because he may not have FHs in his range, betting small is exploitative? I think you need to figure out what exploitative means

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And yeah, this

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IGOR DOURDENNNNNNN????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????/



ps hope the only reason im not on that list is because you tagged me as a 500reg :@

with a fish in the pot, his range has close to 0(if not 0 bluffs) and can be narrowed to TP/overpairs only, maybe A2dd, how can clanty exploit that? Fold all midpairs(or bluff them) and valuebet as thin as possible.

in this hand, by having a fish in the pot, shifty can't overbluff with that sizing, the fish is acting like a shield for clanty. Now it's up to clanty to choose how much he will bluff OTR, and he probably knows his customer. If clanty is valuejamming every 2x, it will be really hard for him to overbluff.

this discussion about that KK T9 hand is completely useless.


Lol
@people actually trying to discuss gto when multiway with a fish in the pot
@you guys believing theoretical gto player IP has many nutcombos/stronger hands otr
@people misunderstanding blocker effects wrt to Kd, TT, 99

+1

It's just a reg that felt capped against a capable reg and leveled himself into calling. We have all been there

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When Rapidesh is calling your play terrible , you know its bad.

at least we agree on this one lol