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Old 08-06-2013, 03:23 AM   #651
noobis
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Well,i dont believe that pll say "loss stop" or "stop session when you win".I will stop playing if no fish on table,if a was the fish on the table and if my f@cking mind traveving at Las Vegas...

Good morning pll
Here in Variko the temperature is 40c WTF????
Gl today,i will play 15k hands nl2 and post 3 hands that i c bet and one when am not,also try found a donking spot and post it here.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:54 AM   #652
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobis View Post
Well,i dont believe that pll say "loss stop" or "stop session when you win".I will stop playing if no fish on table,if a was the fish on the table and if my f@cking mind traveving at Las Vegas...

Good morning pll
Here in Variko the temperature is 40c WTF????
Gl today,i will play 15k hands nl2 and post 3 hands that i c bet and one when am not,also try found a donking spot and post it here.

Hi again

i was thinking about this lately, poker is one big session. The main goal is to make good decision all the time. But is impossible when u are tired or tilted. In this moments ppl making the most mistakes. And in that cases is good to take a break. About "loss stop" - is really good idea. When i was trading on Nyse on market stock we have a limit 50$, if we loss that from the begining we just end trading. Also we had limit from the top of the day. So when u gain 150$ and u lose 50$ your platform was turning off. And u was 100$ up that day. I belive that this can be usefull on poker too. Also i want to add that my trading friends there was making for month around 2000$- 3000$, and they had loss stop on around 50$-100$.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:14 AM   #653
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Re: Without plan B!!!

I dont believe this is correct,i know that good players or even high stakes players use that but i still dont like it!
If you tired or tilted or etc,is all about how "good" are you!I mean when i say "great player" i mean a player who knows not only what hands 3 bet but also what eat,how many hours play,how long study,how important mental game is etc...so a gteat player not need a loss stop or something imo.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:20 AM   #654
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Re: Without plan B!!!

H1 is vs most likely huge drooler. Flop is a must cbet, not even close. There's various reasons for that but since it seems pretty clear to everyone I won't extend over it. Turn isn't that tricky. Again, villain seems like a drooler - there's still a bunch of A-highs, gutters and other **** in his range that we want both value and protection from. Add in a bunch of 2nd/3rd pairs type of hands and you've got a clear value bet. Now if you had smthing like A5 then an argument could be made to take a more passive line like c/calling. Either way - no way it's a c/fold yet. Rivers gonna get tricky tho.

H2 I see his stats as being 0% 3bet. If it really is 5% then flatting becomes the best option as we're doing ok-eish vs his range, odds aren't that bad either.
I can't say I'd blame you for folding tho as at these limits people don't 3bet all that much - they tend to stay more passive pre-flop so in some cases his range might look like QQ+/AKo+.

H3 it's pretty similar to H1 but the difference is that in this one we've got even more of a value hand than we did in H1. Just think of all PPs that we're now beating OTT. I don't really like a c/call because he can check back a bunch of gutshots/OESDs/FDs/lower pairs as well as value town himself with smaller sizing - a huge huge range that we're missing value out on by checking.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:36 AM   #655
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobe4funas View Post
H1 is vs most likely huge drooler. Flop is a must cbet, not even close. There's various reasons for that but since it seems pretty clear to everyone I won't extend over it. Turn isn't that tricky. Again, villain seems like a drooler - there's still a bunch of A-highs, gutters and other **** in his range that we want both value and protection from. Add in a bunch of 2nd/3rd pairs type of hands and you've got a clear value bet. Now if you had smthing like A5 then an argument could be made to take a more passive line like c/calling. Either way - no way it's a c/fold yet. Rivers gonna get tricky tho.
Did you notice that hand 1 is 3-way ?
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:38 AM   #656
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Re: Without plan B!!!

BB folds OTF
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:44 AM   #657
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Re: Without plan B!!!

I know.

I disagree flop being a must cbet.
I also disagree villain to be a likely huge drooler. You got 5 hands on him, you can't make that assumption
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:39 PM   #658
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndItsGone View Post
I know.

I disagree flop being a must cbet.
I also disagree villain to be a likely huge drooler. You got 5 hands on him, you can't make that assumption
Villain has 46bb to start the hand in a 5nl game. Safe to assume he is a drooler. What tobe is saying is also correct regarding betting this hand.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:01 PM   #659
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Only just seen this quality thread.

Good luck OP .. i wish you all the best.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:52 PM   #660
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Re: Without plan B!!!

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Originally Posted by Hap_Hazard View Post
Only just seen this quality thread.

Good luck OP .. i wish you all the best.
Thank you !!!!
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:59 PM   #661
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Re: Without plan B!!!

I really like that guys,i mean your opinions etc...
Want say thank you and hpe that you will continue posting your opinions cos i think i made a mistake there by not betting my ten.
I will start now one table nl zoom and when post 2 hands that i c bet,one not c bet and one when am donk!
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:59 PM   #662
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Also my session at nl2 with some omaha pl 2 zoom tables nl2
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:33 PM   #663
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobis View Post
Also my session at nl2 with some omaha pl 2 zoom tables nl2
I dont know but mixing PLO with NLHE doesnt sound all that great. You should focus more on one game. Besides, PLO rake at everything below 100NL (if im not mistaken, might be below 200 or even 400NL) is hardly beatable.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:45 PM   #664
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Yes,tobe you right.Normaly i dont play omaha.Just for fun and ir running bad :/
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:49 PM   #665
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Re: Without plan B!!!

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 85.5 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
BB: 97 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
UTG: 126 BB (VPIP: 36.84, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
MP: 101 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 11.43, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
CO: 80 BB (VPIP: 37.24, PFR: 0.71, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 150)
Hero (BTN): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, CO posts DB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has T Q

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 10.5 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (23.5 BB, 2 players) K 7 8
UTG checks, Hero checks
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:12 PM   #666
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Pretty high level play there but I like it.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:19 PM   #667
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Tobe, can you tell us the reasons for betting flop in hand 1? I bet but I don't think I have so many reasons to say that they are various.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:30 PM   #668
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Well, first is that we protect our equity pretty hard. Every single T9 JT hand has 6 outs vs us so we want to cash-out our equity now before then run-out gets bad and our absolute hand strength falls (in most scenarios at least one card higher than 8 will drop by the river) decreases. Giving free equity is never a good thing.
Next comes value - both villains are likely droolers. They have a bunch of A-highs that will call, some gutshots, some 5x/3x hands. On some turns our hand is strong to double barrel for value if the turn goes heads-up.
Third thing would be that checking acomplishes nothing - most fish are pretty passive in their nature so the most likely scenario if we check is a third check.
At the same time their pasivity shows up in various spots like they wont give us hard time with our draws - they're more likely to c/call than c/raise and barrel it away. This makes it a lot easier to value town them as we're not afraid to face a c/raise which would **** us up when we're holding smthing marginal.
Anyway, in short these 2 first reasons are really huge, probably the 1st reason alone is more than enough to make this a clear bet. But just some food for thought or w/e.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:37 PM   #669
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Well checking back,i 3 bet that guy cos he is prob fish,he open very loose/play prob bad post flop and i am on button, CO also post his blind.I dont know if that good but not really mater for my study here cos we need a check flop back spot!I dont have really many hands of him but ok.

So,if he open that 30% my hands had 43% equity witch is bad for me?But i have position!


After my 3 bet i give to him that range cos i think he will flat me a lot,cos he want see a flop!With that flop his range crush as 80% and if he will call a c bet with that hands i filter is 50% of the time.So i need to bet pot there to make this move breakeven!So its check back! Is that ok guys???


Last edited by noobis; 08-06-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #670
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobe4funas View Post
Pretty high level play there but I like it.
i take this one about QTo back. I thought it was against some random reg and didnt really check the stats. Now that I know who's the villain - i hate the pre-flop play (which is way way too thin to become a 3bet while a 3bet bluffing range of this sort isnt valuable vs fish therefore it's an obvious fold pre). Post-flop is still good tho.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:23 AM   #671
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Dont take it backkkkkkkkkkkk
Ok its bad but still good post witch is cool! thanks

Hello pll,today i will post 3 hands when i c bet with value hand,med hand,and air hands.One hand that i check back and one when am donking for value.I really dont like donking as a bluff yet!

Plus++++


Plus spot when hero try iso a fish!

Go go go go go go
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:04 AM   #672
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Re: Without plan B!!!

go go go go!

I'm looking for some opinions on donking ranges. Donkbetting isn't a part of my game at all right now, I'm autochecking to the agressor. But I'd like to construct a donking range in the near future to add some depth to my game.

Hands I'd donk with some of the time would pretty much be:

- Hands that flop decent equity, but are ugly to c-call with (ex: TJcc on 7c8hQh)
- Hands that hit flop hard, and I'd love to c-raise with (ex: flopped set)

Any thoughts on this? Anyone who frequently donkbets?

Thanks and good luck noobis
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:51 AM   #673
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Well i donking when i had a hand and board kind of drawy and opponent dont c bet muck,so he can check it back and take his free card witch is suck for me.
Am thinking about donking as a bluff as i read on cotw about donking,when i def my blind and will flop some equity and opponent's range flop some air hands that he fold to my donk and if hi his not i had some equity cos i semi bluff there!
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:42 AM   #674
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Re: Without plan B!!!

I just lost 5 buyins in 1,5k hands at 5NL zoom :/

2-outed on the river 5 times for 200bb+ pots! QQ<Q7s aipf (made me lol kinda) FMLLLLL!çfujosjsdkofskdlnvfldbn

Too tilted to talk more strat, but good luck today noobis. You can have my missing EV if you make funny remark to make my tilt go away
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:54 AM   #675
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Re: Without plan B!!!

Cbet hand 1 for value.Fish can call with a lot a draw,even with worst Qx hands or some pps.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 109 BB (VPIP: 14.06, PFR: 7.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 264)
UTG: 68.5 BB (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
CO: 65 BB (VPIP: 26.85, PFR: 12.15, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 110)
BTN: 235.5 BB (VPIP: 47.62, PFR: 9.52, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 21)
Hero (SB): 104 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K Q

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 8 BB, BB calls 7 BB, fold, BTN calls 7 BB

Flop: (25 BB, 3 players) T T Q
Hero bets 15 BB


Hand 2,i stnd iso him cos he limps ~40% and i think he will call pretty light there and try see a flop.On the flop my hand has 63% equity and i c bet .16 intro .26 and with that i need him fold 40% to make instand profit.But i think he will continue there with 70% of his combos as you can see on fllopzilla.Even vs that calling range my JJ still ahead with 54% equity,so good c bet yessss

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 251 BB (VPIP: 13.92, PFR: 10.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 82)
BTN: 107.5 BB (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (SB): 101.5 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J J

BTN calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, fold, BTN calls 5 BB

Flop: (13 BB, 2 players) Q K 4
Hero bets 8 BB



hand 3 c bet or check back here??? Well pre i reraise him cos my hand better than his limping range,if he limp/call with that range i give him,on the flop that range has 38% equity vs as.My c bet must work 36% to make that move breakeven.I dont really know with what hands hi will continue with,but there is too many worst combos that hi will call as and i think this c bet is proftable!If he will call as 50% we still have 50% equity vs that rage.



PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 75 BB (VPIP: 17.67, PFR: 6.47, 3Bet Preflop: 1.25, Hands: 246)
BB: 120.5 BB (VPIP: 25.42, PFR: 19.58, 3Bet Preflop: 11.30, Hands: 492)
UTG: 36 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 18)
CO: 41 BB (VPIP: 25.96, PFR: 13.46, 3Bet Preflop: 5.71, Hands: 106)
Hero (BTN): 101 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4 A

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 3 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 2 players) 4 Q 9
UTG checks, Hero bets 5.5 BB
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