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Old 05-19-2017, 03:06 PM   #1
Adikar
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Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Just seeing the title alone shows that more information is needed to even think this is a valid idea. So heres what i'm thinking, and wondering the thoughts of others.

I plan on taking on a $1k loan to start at 25nl playing on Ignition. One of the softest Cash Game sites there is. I have already ran up a roll in 2014 starting with $100 5nl and bringing it to $700 in 6 weeks playing about 50 hours a week. Yes, I believe i could do this again, yet, would take a bit longer since during that run, I ran pretty amazing. The problem is, I wont be playing and studying that many hours since I have 2 jobs now. I'll most likely be playing about 40 hours a month, making the process take much longer and thats just something I don't think I can mentally do again starting from $100, taking months to get to $1000 to play 25nl where I want to start and progress my roll.

Now that you understand my idea, lets talk about why i think it might be an okay idea. Talking Finances.
I work 2 Jobs as of right now.
32 Hours a week at $19/h and 10 Hours at 13/h.
You're probably thinking, why not take $1000 out and just play since you make that much a month. Well, I have life to pay for. House, Car, Bills! etc.
The bank interest rate is 4.3% APR. So it wouldn't be a terrible rate to pay. I've tried to find a 50/50 backer, but I don't have a Poker Resume that I can hand them, showing graphs and all that such, because I never had Bovada Card Catcher and PT4 when I was starting my grind.
Anyways! Back to whats important. If I paid the 4.3% APR over 6months of taking money out of each of my checks. It would in theory, be like i was creating my bankroll with my own money. But not taking a couple months to accumulate the $1k.

In Conclusion,
I would be getting a $1k 4.3% APR loan for 6 months.
I would be starting with 25nl at 40BI Bankroll.
I would be studying and playing 40-50 hours a month.
I have 2 jobs, averaging a Bi-weekly income of $1300ish to pay off the loan.
I believe back when I played in 2014 i had 12bb/100ish over 80k hands on ignition, but ran super amazing even when taking shots at 10nl and 25nl. I would say my average BB/100 at Micros is probably 5-7bb/100.

Thoughts, Comments and Ideas please!
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:53 PM   #2
spikeraw22
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

This is a horrible idea. One vital quality for winning players is patience. This is the opposite of that.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:58 PM   #3
Adikar
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
This is a horrible idea. One vital quality for winning players is patience. This is the opposite of that.
What do you think I should do if I want to start grinding a roll now?
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:26 PM   #4
Mohsen
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

I think you're overestimating your abilities..(no offence)
In 2014 you were playing a hole different game.
Even in ignition, on 5 NL you will see players that you would never see on 25NL in 2014!
Games are a lot tougher. I learned it the hard way(about 80BI down on 10NL!)
About financial, which I won't recomment starting from 25NL(which is by far tougher that 2014s 100NL) but you have a right mindset.
You are applying that you are almost reaching your pocket for the BR. Take a loan and pay it monthly from your paycheks...
This approach is right, level of starting is not..
Start from 5NL imo.(maximum 10NL)

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Old 05-19-2017, 04:44 PM   #5
spikeraw22
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

I think you should bite the bullet and grind up from 5NL. Or if you insist on starting got so high, wait and build your roll up over a couple months at the job. Absolutely do not take out a loan for this. That is beyond stupid.

Take whatever you've got free now and start grinding it. As long as you just break even for two weeks you can add to it in two weeks with your next paycheck and move up as funds are available.

1. Don't don't don't take out a loan.
2. Start low and see how it goes.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:04 PM   #6
Adikar
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
I think you should bite the bullet and grind up from 5NL. Or if you insist on starting got so high, wait and build your roll up over a couple months at the job. Absolutely do not take out a loan for this. That is beyond stupid.

Take whatever you've got free now and start grinding it. As long as you just break even for two weeks you can add to it in two weeks with your next paycheck and move up as funds are available.

1. Don't don't don't take out a loan.
2. Start low and see how it goes.
Should I be playing with an Aggressive Bankroll? 15-30 BIs, 20 BI shot takes?
so Start with $150 playing 5nl, until $200, and increase to 10nl? I've always played with a good Bankroll when I used to play. usually around 40-60 BIs, Take a shot at 30-35 BIs. Or should I base it over BB/100 over 50k hands each stake? If I beat a stake at 4bb/100 or more, continue to the next limit until 25nl.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:11 PM   #7
Mohsen
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

I say 30BI shots would be nice. Not too aggressive and not too passive as well.
$150 = 5NL (drop down at 100)
$300 = 10NL (drop down at 200)
And so on..

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Old 05-19-2017, 05:14 PM   #8
Adikar
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohsen View Post
I think you're overestimating your abilities..(no offence)
In 2014 you were playing a hole different game.
Even in ignition, on 5 NL you will see players that you would never see on 25NL in 2014!
Games are a lot tougher. I learned it the hard way(about 80BI down on 10NL!)
About financial, which I won't recomment starting from 25NL(which is by far tougher that 2014s 100NL) but you have a right mindset.
You are applying that you are almost reaching your pocket for the BR. Take a loan and pay it monthly from your paycheks...
This approach is right, level of starting is not..
Start from 5NL imo.(maximum 10NL)

Sent from my LG-K430 using Tapatalk
I played in MTT's after the $700 grind, playing $5.50-$11 BI's on Bovada, grinding to $12k over 9 months of 5days a week MTT grinds. Then taking out around 7k, and playing 100nl, for about 3-4 months, making maybe 10BI's in those months, so I decided to withdraw it all and play live. In which went well, but started spending way more than what I was earning. So I had to start back on the Job grind keeping 2k for my life roll until things got better. Which is why im trying to start back up now and study and play back to the level I used to be since i took my year casual break of playing 2-3 live tournaments a week at my live casino.
Probably should have added that apart of my post as well. To show my overall winrate. Probably was 2-3bb/100 at 100nl. Back when I played those few months.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:32 PM   #9
SovietRussia
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Honestly, It's your money, you do what you think you should do. If you were playing 100nl profitably, then 25nl will be fine. If you don't know what you're doing by now and don't have a really good grasp of the game then just forget it.

10NL to 25NL in terms of accumulating buy-in is rough. Sites need to follow PS's lead and make 16NL tables.

I personally switched over to plo quite a while ago and do well. I can't stand nlh online anymore.

Oh and to the person who lost 80BI in 10NL? You're really, REALLY doing it wrong.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:40 PM   #10
Gamblino
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

As long as you do not give up your job immediatly I don't see any problems with taking a loan. The worst thing that can happen is that u have a little lower income per month for some time but no existencial threat. So why not take a shot and risk something?
But again, 2014 is nothing like 2017! so NL10 would be a much better way to start imo..

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Old 05-19-2017, 05:41 PM   #11
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SovietRussia View Post
Honestly, It's your money, you do what you think you should do. If you were playing 100nl profitably, then 25nl will be fine. If you don't know what you're doing by now and don't have a really good grasp of the game then just forget it.

10NL to 25NL in terms of accumulating buy-in is rough. Sites need to follow PS's lead and make 16NL tables.

I personally switched over to plo quite a while ago and do well. I can't stand nlh online anymore.

Oh and to the person who lost 80BI in 10NL? You're really, REALLY doing it wrong.
I tried switching a while ago during the time I switched from MTT's back to cash, I played some 25plo and I saw that alot of people never really played Preflop that well, but when I played, I probably wasnt the best Post-Flop player, but the variance was pretty crazy. There would be days I was 5-7BI's down and some where I was up 8-10 BI's. Within like... 2k-3k hands. Maybe if my Post-Flop play was better, maybe I could have a better steady profit rate, but from when I played those 2 weeks of strictly PLO, it was a variance roller coaster for me as a recreational player.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:44 PM   #12
Adikar
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblino View Post
As long as you do not give up your job immediatly I don't see any problems with taking a loan. The worst thing that can happen is that u have a little lower income per month for some time but no existencial threat. So why not take a shot and risk something?
But again, 2014 is nothing like 2017! so NL10 would be a much better way to start imo..

Gesendet von meinem ONE A2003 mit Tapatalk
I get what you're saying, but on Ignition, theres only a playerbase for 5nl Zone, 25nl Zone and 100nl Zone. I would rather play Zone that normal tables.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:47 PM   #13
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

So I'm not saying you have to follow strict 30bi brm as long as you know you're replenishing from your paychecks. It's not the best pay probably but literally anything is better ham the loan idea.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:56 PM   #14
PotLuckNeeded
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

There's an opportunity cost for not playing higher *IF* you are a winning player. We're only talking about $1,000 here, even if u bust it, it's not the end of the world. It's a good interest rate, I'd have a very different opinion if it was a payday loan type rate.

It's your money, I'm just going against the grain on this one. If u hit a downswing, you can always drop down stakes.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:21 PM   #15
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Paying interest on money you'd have in weeks anyway wipes out whatever opportunity you gain. Taking on this loan is like nutworst advice I've seen on this forum.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:59 PM   #16
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Paying interest on money you'd have in weeks anyway wipes out whatever opportunity you gain. Taking on this loan is like nutworst advice I've seen on this forum.
It's not the path I'd follow personally but I don't think it's as bad as you are making it out to be. It's a thousand dollars, 4.3%, the guy obciously wants to jump in.. I wish him luck.

I grinded my BR and Bitcoin/Ethereum from basically nothing so I'm a bit of of a fanancial nit.

No, the nutworse advice is betting on Crazychips being a HU beast.

Either way OP, decide what you're willing to lose, build a plan and be willing to accept consequences.
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:37 AM   #17
Adikar
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Paying interest on money you'd have in weeks anyway wipes out whatever opportunity you gain. Taking on this loan is like nutworst advice I've seen on this forum.
I thought the loan was a better idea than having a backer, when I feel I'm a winning player at the Micros. Another idea though, that I thought about on my way home from work. What if I just got a $500 limit Credit Card, and just started with the $200-$300 playing 10nl, and paid it back with my checks before the month was over so that I get no interest on the card?

Pros
-I jump into playing 10nl, instead of 5nl.
-I don't have interest as long as its paid before the months end.
-Start grinding a smaller stake, so that I can get my game back into a winning solid strategy.
-Helps my credit. lol.

Cons
-I have a credit card now. Everyone knows how that can be.
-Still putting myself in a "Debt" situation.

Is this a better way to proceed this?
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:54 AM   #18
Mohsen
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adikar View Post
I thought the loan was a better idea than having a backer, when I feel I'm a winning player at the Micros. Another idea though, that I thought about on my way home from work. What if I just got a $500 limit Credit Card, and just started with the $200-$300 playing 10nl, and paid it back with my checks before the month was over so that I get no interest on the card?

Pros
-I jump into playing 10nl, instead of 5nl.
-I don't have interest as long as its paid before the months end.
-Start grinding a smaller stake, so that I can get my game back into a winning solid strategy.
-Helps my credit. lol.

Cons
-I have a credit card now. Everyone knows how that can be.
-Still putting myself in a "Debt" situation.

Is this a better way to proceed this?
I liked it better than 1K loan.
As far as you can afford it without any financial problems, I don't see an issue with it.
Gl

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Old 05-20-2017, 07:01 AM   #19
MultiTabling
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

It's a poor idea, unless you are absolutely certain you can beat 25nl, move up quickly and pay off the loan asap. You are not certain of that, because the last time you played was 2014 and you ran "super amazing" during that time.

Is it really that difficult to save up from your job? You earn $738/week, I can't imagine all of that is going on living costs. List your weekly spend and let's see where you're spending your money.
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:05 PM   #20
konoki_1
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Seriously, you are going to 'earn' >$165/month playing on Ignition; this is the approximate amount your monthly payment will be, over the 6-month period of the loan, even if you plan to pay it off with $$ from your monthly nut; your employment.
If your expenses for the month, given your monthly net from working, cannot afford you the leeway to 'save' up $1k in 6-months, I do not know how you are going to 'earn' that amount off of online poker; i.e. 16.5% roi for 6-months.
My advice is to reconsider taking out the loan.
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:47 PM   #21
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Ok so here's my thing- going into real world debt is an awful idea. Especially when you consider that you can replenish your paycheck. How much can you pull from your check every two weeks? You're talking about taking in debt with interest because you can't stand the thought of waiting a couple of weeks to play higher? That's insane. Here's the least ridiculous path I can think of:

Deposit whatever you can afford right now after life is taken care of. Play whatever stakes you want in consideration of ROR. That's probably low, but remember that it's only for a couple weeks plus it gives you a chance to see where your game is at in relation to the lowest stakes. When your next check rolls around, deposit again and if you've been running good you can probably jump stakes. Maybe several. Within a month or two you'll be playing the stakes you want with a roll that you aren't paying stupid interest on.

Or you could find that the games are way tougher and you shouldn't be playing higher anyway and you've saved yourself a ton of money by not losing it and also by not having to pay off a stupid loan with interest.

Loans are for cars (stupid) and houses (stupid but necessary).


Have you figured out that I think debt is awful? It's especially awful when you could avoid it by slowing down just a little bit. Not to mention life happens sometimes and that $1000 could end up costing waaay more than $1000.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:01 PM   #22
knowsbleeds
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

I wouldn't take out the loan. Post what your living expenses are so we can determine how much you should really be investing in poker.

A lot has changed since 2014. The games ARE harder. Everyone knows how to play now. Not a crazy amount of donks/fish floating around, except this one. hehe
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:02 AM   #23
Adikar
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knowsbleeds View Post
I wouldn't take out the loan. Post what your living expenses are so we can determine how much you should really be investing in poker.
My life expenses as high as i made it out to seem, its mainly because i obtained both jobs at the same time about 1 month ago. So the first few checks have been going out to things i've been needing to pay. I've gotten 1 check from my new full time job, and that was 1 weeks worth, the other job, ive gotten my 2nd check, but went all to bills.
900 in bills a month; not including food. So its not bad.
I'm just anxious into getting back into grinding again.

Quote:
Deposit whatever you can afford right now after life is taken care of. Play whatever stakes you want in consideration of ROR. That's probably low, but remember that it's only for a couple weeks plus it gives you a chance to see where your game is at in relation to the lowest stakes. When your next check rolls around, deposit again and if you've been running good you can probably jump stakes. Maybe several. Within a month or two you'll be playing the stakes you want with a roll that you aren't paying stupid interest on.
I'm probably going to do this. Grinding 5nl the first couple weeks. Then figure out and adapt to how the games changed in the last year or so.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:04 AM   #24
Adikar
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Are people interested in following Poker Player via a .ME site? I've been thinking about starting one and putting my progress and thoughts each day/week. Like a blog kinda.
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Old 05-21-2017, 10:22 PM   #25
Yogg-Saron
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Re: Using a Bank Loan to start a Bankroll?

Its all fun and games until something goes wrong and your out a job.

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