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Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

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Old 07-14-2018, 11:05 AM   #1
NegatiEV
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Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

Yo, welcome. I've been fortunate enough recently to win enough money for me to have a bankroll that gives me the opportunity to grind the mid stakes long term (hopefully). I have recently deposited €20k into my account and plan on grinding HU games (€20-200 stakes) alongside my job in an effort to turn what I currently earn (about €45k per year) into something that breaks the 6 figure mark.

My recent win in the casino has allowed me to pay off my debts and put a few thousand into savings meaning that I shouldn't have any unexpected withdrawals and can solely focus on grinding, however much or little, with my job paying my rent/house deposit/bills etc.

I've been a low-mid stakes player for quite a few years but never really had the opportunity to have a separate bankroll to my life roll. I'm hoping that this is the chance. I'm setting myself a few daily/weekly goals and I'm optimistic that by treating this as a business, I will be able to make a large amount over the next couple of years.

My plan is to withdraw anything over the €20k in the bankroll at the end of each week and I hope that receiving a weekly payment in effect will motivate me to grind harder. If I drop below the €20k I will not withdraw until I'm back above that level.

I'm not going to reveal the site I play on yet but do hope to prove that poker isn't dead! I will be playing/updating regularly and should be getting involved in some live poker when the bankroll permits!
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:04 PM   #2
EPTchips
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

Cool, gl, let's go!
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:09 PM   #3
6bet me
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

Gl son
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:21 PM   #4
El Diablo
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

N,

Consider not withdrawing everything over 20k, instead maybe half of the winnings each week or something.

It’s very motivational to see the bankroll increasing, lets you move up in stakes, makes you more comfortable always making the right move without worrying about the money, and helps you not sweat downswings too much.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:32 PM   #5
Strappz
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

Quote:
Originally Posted by NegatiEV View Post
I've been a low-mid stakes player for quite a few years but never really had the opportunity to have a separate bankroll to my life roll. I'm hoping that this is the chance.
It's an exciting opportunity. In the mid-late 2000's when I first started playing and winning consistently I would say 90% of my profits went towards family expenses. Never really used my withdrawals on fun stuff. I mean it's fun to pay off debt or have a down payment for a house I suppose.

Best of luck. And I agree with El Diablo. I would put a portion of your weekly profits back into your bankroll. The bigger it is the more flexibility you'll have and you won't need to sweat it if you have a few bad weeks. Otherwise you'll be following up bad weeks with rebuilding your bankroll as opposed to still being able to pay yourself out on a consistent basis.
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:41 PM   #6
NegatiEV
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

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Originally Posted by EPTchips View Post
Cool, gl, let's go!
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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
Gl son
Cheers boys!

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Originally Posted by El Diablo View Post
N,

Consider not withdrawing everything over 20k, instead maybe half of the winnings each week or something.

It’s very motivational to see the bankroll increasing, lets you move up in stakes, makes you more comfortable always making the right move without worrying about the money, and helps you not sweat downswings too much.
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Originally Posted by Strappz View Post
It's an exciting opportunity. In the mid-late 2000's when I first started playing and winning consistently I would say 90% of my profits went towards family expenses. Never really used my withdrawals on fun stuff. I mean it's fun to pay off debt or have a down payment for a house I suppose.

Best of luck. And I agree with El Diablo. I would put a portion of your weekly profits back into your bankroll. The bigger it is the more flexibility you'll have and you won't need to sweat it if you have a few bad weeks. Otherwise you'll be following up bad weeks with rebuilding your bankroll as opposed to still being able to pay yourself out on a consistent basis.
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Unfortunately a terrible start to the thread as my contract at work was terminated today due to me suffering from depression and my boss having absolutely no empathy whatsoever which means I'm going to have to withdraw as I'm not sure where the next pay cheque is coming from. It's weird, I worked for Colgate who are obviously a massive company, they have a counselling scheme through work, they handed out mental health booklets not too long ago and as soon as you show a sign of not being fully well they get rid instantly. **** 'em. At least it shouldn't be too hard to earn more through poker when I'm out of work

On the plus side, +€1,024 today on the tables helped by a couple of small bonuses (probably about €80-100). Will have lots of time to grind now which is good!
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:04 PM   #7
Strappz
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

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Originally Posted by NegatiEV View Post
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Unfortunately a terrible start to the thread as my contract at work was terminated today due to me suffering from depression and my boss having absolutely no empathy whatsoever which means I'm going to have to withdraw as I'm not sure where the next pay cheque is coming from. It's weird, I worked for Colgate who are obviously a massive company, they have a counselling scheme through work, they handed out mental health booklets not too long ago and as soon as you show a sign of not being fully well they get rid instantly. **** 'em. At least it shouldn't be too hard to earn more through poker when I'm out of work

On the plus side, +€1,024 today on the tables helped by a couple of small bonuses (probably about €80-100). Will have lots of time to grind now which is good!
Waaait a minute here. You were terminated due to a medical condition? You're listing currency in Euro's so you're not in the US. Does your country not provide any form of job protection for medical conditions? You did say your "contract was terminated" so maybe that's their loophole.

Either way sorry to hear about the change in circumstances. Depression is a fickle *****. Do the swings that come with poker have any negative impact on your mental state? Not trying to be your Interweb therapist but I'd be cautious when I hear depression and poker. I realize everyone is different and it may have zero impact on your mental health, which I hope is the case.

Best of luck.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:19 AM   #8
swissodds
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

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Originally Posted by Strappz View Post
Waaait a minute here. You were terminated due to a medical condition? You're listing currency in Euro's so you're not in the US. Does your country not provide any form of job protection for medical conditions? You did say your "contract was terminated" so maybe that's their loophole.

Either way sorry to hear about the change in circumstances. Depression is a fickle *****. Do the swings that come with poker have any negative impact on your mental state? Not trying to be your Interweb therapist but I'd be cautious when I hear depression and poker. I realize everyone is different and it may have zero impact on your mental health, which I hope is the case.

Best of luck.
I dont know OP personnal professionnal life but i can tell you that eventough we are a bit more protected by the laws than you are in the USA, euro people get still fired pretty easily. But it might be a more subtle thing like not renewing your contract, telling you that the company has to be delocalised and that there s a place for you... in a country you dont know. Or lowering your salary while telling you that if you arent happy there are hundreds of people willing to take your place. I mean, insurance and healthcare used to be pretty decent in Eurolands but imho we are getting closer and closer to the USA situation
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:58 AM   #9
Darragh
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

Hi NegatiEV,

First of all kudos on you for having to motivation to try up your earnings via poker while dealing with depression. From my limited knowledge it is hard to want to do anything while depressed.

Secondly how successful have you been and over what sample size in poker? It would probably be an extremely +EV move to use some of the 20k bankroll to get poker coaching as jumping straight in to full time at those stakes is going to require a very high level of play. A lower win rate = Higher variance, lower profits and a lot more stress.

Finally have you ever tried meditation? It both increases serotonin and decreases cortisol which is essential for an online poker pro, especially since you are dealing with depression.

Best of luck!!
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:13 AM   #10
NegatiEV
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappz View Post
Waaait a minute here. You were terminated due to a medical condition? You're listing currency in Euro's so you're not in the US. Does your country not provide any form of job protection for medical conditions? You did say your "contract was terminated" so maybe that's their loophole.

Either way sorry to hear about the change in circumstances. Depression is a fickle *****. Do the swings that come with poker have any negative impact on your mental state? Not trying to be your Interweb therapist but I'd be cautious when I hear depression and poker. I realize everyone is different and it may have zero impact on your mental health, which I hope is the case.

Best of luck.
Thank you. They will pay me to the end of my contract (mid-august) but I was expecting it to be extended as I hadn't finished the project I was working on and it likely will not get completed now that I'm gone as I was the only one working on it, but that's up to them. I had a week off unpaid, went back in yesterday and said I was going back to the doctors at which point they said "ok come back in Tuesday and see what the Doc has said", then 2 mins later they handed me the letter asking me to leave dated July 6th, which means that as soon as I mentioned I wasn't very well on July 5th they wanted to get rid. Terrible really given I wasn't even asking to be paid for it.

The swings don't really affect me too much but I've certainly noticed over the years that I grind harder when I'm losing compared to when I'm winning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swissodds View Post
I dont know OP personnal professionnal life but i can tell you that eventough we are a bit more protected by the laws than you are in the USA, euro people get still fired pretty easily. But it might be a more subtle thing like not renewing your contract, telling you that the company has to be delocalised and that there s a place for you... in a country you dont know. Or lowering your salary while telling you that if you arent happy there are hundreds of people willing to take your place. I mean, insurance and healthcare used to be pretty decent in Eurolands but imho we are getting closer and closer to the USA situation
I have also had that before. I was 3 months into a 12 month fixed term contract when the company basically made my job £15k more junior and said "take or leave". You can't really trust companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darragh View Post
Hi NegatiEV,

First of all kudos on you for having to motivation to try up your earnings via poker while dealing with depression. From my limited knowledge it is hard to want to do anything while depressed.

Secondly how successful have you been and over what sample size in poker? It would probably be an extremely +EV move to use some of the 20k bankroll to get poker coaching as jumping straight in to full time at those stakes is going to require a very high level of play. A lower win rate = Higher variance, lower profits and a lot more stress.

Finally have you ever tried meditation? It both increases serotonin and decreases cortisol which is essential for an online poker pro, especially since you are dealing with depression.

Best of luck!!
Thank you. I must admit that motivation isn't great at the moment. I sit there and tell myself I will grind for 8 hours which is nothing compared to the 15 hours I would do day in day out a few years back, but then I end up doing 20 mins and find myself wanting to escape playing the PS4 or whatever.

I've been fairly successful with poker over the years, not in a 6 figure way but I'd say that despite not studying for probably 4-5 years I am still ahead of the majority of players I am facing. I think a big part of my win rate this time around will come from game selection. I've always been one of those who will sit there 5 tabling a reg purely for ego purposes but as I get older and mature I'd like to think I'm able to put that ego to one side.

With regards to coaching it's definitely something I've thought about so will bear that in mind.

Never tried meditation if I'm honest, the doc has prescribed anti-depressants for my serotonin levels and I've self-referred myself for cognitive behavioural therapy so we'll see how that goes.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:34 PM   #11
fragglerock45
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Re: Treating poker like a business - €20k bankroll

GL OP. Just fyi in Germany a lot of doctors have stopped calling it "depression" and now classify it as "burnout" after so many high-powered executives reported depressive symptoms and had a problem with getting medicated for it.

Good idea to look at CBT as a form of treatment. I'd also get some bloodwork done just to check if you have low testosterone etc. - contrary to popular belief, depression is far from being a "mental disorder". Neurological disorders and "mental disorders" are two vastly different items.
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