Haha Ava, your name always sticks out to me in this regard. I respect your viewpoint as someone who has gone through it and truly knows. I would of course love to hear it, although I already know what your stance is (I read A LOT) .

Project Management/B.B.A/1 year as a PM, but but 2-3 more in other types of management while I was in school. (finished school Dec 2016)

Lurker here, but have been following thread since the beginning. I'm in the same boat as you (have a full time job and play 10-15 hours a week). Ive consumed a lot of poker content (via podcasts, vlogs, 2p2, etc.) and most of them seem to agree that poker is a great hobby, but not a great fulltime job. Downswings will hurt that much more. I have also heard that you will start to not enjoy poker. My advice would be to keep the job. Whatever you decide, GL!

FYP.

Haha you sound just like me! Agree with most of your points, although tough to tell without actually going through it. Much appreciated :-)

Much appreciated post. I think the issue is the opportunity cost. Right now, I could probably make 1.5x what I make from my job. (2017 was an anomaly, made more from poker than my job, and worked 2k hours at job and played 750 hours poker, lol.)

The job also includes (some) healthcare, Paid time off, etc. And in the future (10 years from now) the job hourly will certainly be higher (assuming no economic collapse) Either way, i'm leaning towards no, but always fun to consider.

Here’s the thing. There are so many different angles to talk about this. (Poker dying, live poker being awful, downswings hurting, etc). But for those with a degree and working in the professional world I like to talk via that angle.

Caveat all of this with I very sincerely believe you as a human being should do what you want in this life. If that is painting, writing, surfing, etc. You should put all of your heart and energy into that. Human beings were not meant to be in cubes. A good friend of mine is a charter fishing captain who makes 1/3 what I do and I envy the **** out of his life.

That said, if you are blinded by the idea of wealth attainment, as many are, poker is a less lucrative path than corporate.

Your career is an upward trajectory, honestly even if you don’t try. But if you try, it can be a rocket. There are so many resources people aren’t really aware of in the Corp world. Just like poker requires study, networking, getting in the right games, Corp requires study, networking, getting on the right teams. It’s all the same, except your salary grows, largely so, every several years. Get on indeed. Talk to recruiters. Set up meet and greets with VPs. It’s honestly not hard. Just yolo.

When you create a hole in your resume early in your career, you severely handicap yourself. It’s not year 1,2,3,break,4. Its year 1,2,3,break,1. That’s how it works. If you are an analyst/manager 1/engineer 1, whatever...trying to re-enter the labor market...a new company dngaf about how many years you “had” with a company 2 years ago. It only matters with current employment. Bc then it looks like you are looking for growth. Instead of looking for a job.

Anyone with a degree in the Corp world who applies themselves will hit $100K by 30. Playing poker passively part time, you can add another $20-$40K on that, depending on what games you play. More importantly, you now have liquid cash flow for an infinite bankroll. Some people think I can play 10/25 bc I am good at poker. That’s not it. I can play 10/25 bc I can lose 3 buy ins in a night and not want to kill myself. That is bc of my career. Not poker.

Money starts to grow on itself exponentially. Put as much savings as you can into a SPY and don’t touch it and don’t watch the markets. This is called indexing. Everyone with a d*ck and a dream thinks they can beat the markets or that crypto is the next thing or whatever. That’s spew/degening. When you index you are essentially betting on an economy. There will be ups and downs but overall if you think the us economy will still be here 50 years from now you should index.

By 35 my portfolio will be generating returns equal to my salary. This is the game of wealth attainment; this is how it is done. I dont recommend this path to anyone, but it is certainly a better way to become wealthy over poker.

Seeing people that sunrunned poker and are now playing nosebleeds...that is the same thing as youtubers that clear $1M. It’s the same thing as seeing twitch gamers that make $100/hr in donations. Same for any weird field out there where there is money to be made. There will always be the top. I’m not saying you can’t be it. But you can be the top anywhere. And it’s easier to get there with good career trajectory.

My two cents. Take it for what it is worth. Not sure what you do. I am in my 24th year in Finance/Accounting. Generally have worked for private companies. I do well. I could be doing better but that is always the case. I got married 1 year after college. The wife worked in Accounting as well. We spent 6-7 years paying off the college loans. Shortly after we were done we had a child. Wife went part-time and eventually quit and we had a 2nd child. She was out of workforce for around 8 years. She has been back for the last few years, but not a what she could make. She took a job that was close and had good hours.

Money was tight when she was home with the kids. We got through it. We are better now, but we will have to come up with some money for college. Once we are done with the kids I plan on playing much more poker like 15-20 hours a week. I will find out if I have what it takes to grind a bit of money. I would like to net $1-2K a month while in retirement.

We live a comfortable life mainly. There is stress in my job. I don't much like it, but I am paid well and provide well for my family.

That is what I did. The times I day dream I think if I wouldn't have gotten married and lived on the cheap and progressed my life/career I could be getting close to retiring now and playing full-time now. There is positives and negatives to both.

If you are in a professional career where there is a path to getting to over 6 figures and beyond I would stay in it for now. Save every penny you can. Live on the cheap. Build a huge liferoll. One that is like 2-4 years worth. Only leave your profession if you feel like you can get back in at a later date if you want.

That is what I would do.

Thanks dude much appreciated insight.

much appreciated as well

Fk 100k before you're 30... 5/10 and make $100k this year! Lfg!!!

time to get some pokers in tonight. Let the Poker gods be with us.

Finally in the green for 2018! It took a big session, and some serious run good but definitely glad! Not getting wrecked every hand feels good. As I mentioned 5/T has been running every weekend now, and t started early once again. Able to get a solid 8.5 hours in the 5/T game.



In our first interesting hand the CO opens to 35. We flat A K in the BB. We go to a flop of KQ4. We check, villain continues for 50 as expected, and we call. The turn is the A and we check. He checks it back and the river is the 7. We lead 105, and he makes the call. To my surprise, he rolls over T8.

Next up, we raise AA UTG 8 handed, and the HJ makes it 135 to go. It folds back around to us and we 4 bet 340. The flop comes Q 3 5. We bet 280, and he calls. The turn is the 6 and we jam villains last 1480. He tank calls and we run it twice.
First board: Q
Second board: 8
We show and he mucks.

Next up, we are in the BB with Q8, and see a CO reg who we have a ton of history with opens to 35. It folds to us and we call. The flop comes Q74 and we check. He continues for 50. We call and the see 2 on the turn. We check again and this time he fires 110. We call again and see the 6 on the river. This time he fires 300 after checked to him. We toss in the call and lose to AQ.

Next up, we pick up T9 in the CO and overlimp two EP limps. The BB checks and we are 4 way to a flop of AJ9. Three checks to us and we bet 35. The BB and UTG limper both call and we see the 7 on the turn. This time, the SB leads 85, and the UTG limper raises to 300 with 1500 behind. We decide to just flat, and BB folds. The river is the 4. And he checks it over to us. We make it 620, and he thinks for a short time and calls. We show and he mucks.

Last up, we open 76 from the HJ, and the BTN, playing 75/15 calls, as does the BB. The flop comes KQ4. BB checks, we continue for 55, and Big players call. The turn is the 5. On literally the only card we’d continue on, we make it 225 after the BB checks. The BTN thinks for 45 seconds, and calls, and the BB folds. The river is the 2. And we decide to fire again, mostly due to his time taken to call the turn. we make it 575, and are snapped off by KJ. NH. Don’t feel too bad about that one at the end of the day.

Excited to be traveling to MGM NH for the long weekend. Ready to put in some solid rec volume this weekend! For now. Recreating hard.




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some interesting discussion above, and I agree with most of the posts. I recently gave up playing poker for a living after 7 years and started a corporate job. Now, the money is not great (esp since I dont live in a first world country), but it is going to get better, and I honestly feel like my quality of life has improved.

One more thing that is rarely discussed here, except for Ava touching it with this quote:

and that is the link between playing poker professionally and mental health issue. Playing succesfully requires certain level of disconnection and indifference towards your results - either you fail at this and become a gambling addict or bipolar, or succeed and become indifferent towards the world in general, resulting in depression. Add to that poker lifestyle that make it easy to indulge in substance abuse and isolation from society (esp online poker) and you have a perfect recipe for mental issues.

Now, of course, some people are able to overcome that with discipline and determination, but people with such a strong mindset and smart enough to beat poker in 2018 would likely be even more succsesful in any other field.

even if we assume you're good enough to beat the games for a living (which you probably aren't), and you have the mental game (which you probably don't), there are still factors that are out of your control.

Live games are very fragile. The games you play now will drastically change in less than a year. Best case scenario is you get less action from regs (big hit to wr), worst case scenario the game just dies and have to move / travel a lot... good luck with that if you're in a relationship

There are guys who play 2/5 for a living... to put it bluntly most of them are losers / complete waste of time if you're capable of doing anything else

solid update, nice to see you back in the green man

for some reason I find those black chips super strange looking, glossy kinda

I'm not in love with the 109cc hand, I definitely prefer raising it especially in position. A minor tweak I've added to my live game is selecting when to play suited connectors aggressively, and I've decided that it's best when you're in good position facing passive action or a loose opener. If you thought that raising the 109cc would still make everyone call, then I understand why you'd limp.

Damn, can't win at this game!

I think bolded is a bit harsh to apply to everyone, but I generally agree with all of your points

Generally agree with your second paragraph, but I don't think this will happen as quickly as you think.

Bolded seems a bit harsh, but I see where you're coming from. Some people just aren't built to work for others, which is also understandable to a degree.

Agree 100% re: chips

Also agree 100% re: T9cc. Should be raising it here. This game was one where it was hard to tell whether it would go 4 way bloated or not. It would have depended on the first limper. If that first guy calls, generally the others will follow. In this case, since it was UTG I rarely see people folding UTG after limping haha

Everyone too weak.

I've learned that people will always try to tell others what to do/how to live their life. I've also learned that you have to do what makes you happy and that is different for everyone. I think most people struggle with this.

Good point. Everyone is different. I respect both sides curious - have you or are you currently playing full time?

You're acting like that's a bad thing. People give advice because they are genuinely trying to help. Not because they're trying to control. Any rational adult would realize this and take the advice with a grain of salt. All it's doing is giving a different perspective he might not have thought about.

One of the main issues is a lot of people think money will make them happy. One thing I've learned is that people who choose more money over satisfaction ultimately end up unhappy, depressed, and guilt ridden by what if questions.

Exploring your interests/ ideas, and curiosity throughout your life as they gradually shift and morph is the most logical thing to do. Yet many resist it, they'd prefer to be unhappy than risk change. That can be found in every single job/ career out there.

There's also a large difference between what makes you happy as a hobby vs what makes you happy as a job. I think the majority of both aspiring and current pros don't understand that... and that is exactly why 95% of them look so miserable.

Seems like bolded (contradictory) would both apply in this case which is what makes the decision that much more difficult. Anyway, it's not in my plans, just always lingers in the back of your head lol.

Super excited to be making this trip for the long weekend! Got hotels booked sat & sun night. It will be my second time down here!




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Take what I have to say with a grain of salt. Solving specific spots, plugging leaks and adding to your overall EV can be extremely interesting and satisfying.. and are why lots of guys love the game. But those spots come up infrequently, and frankly you can get that satisfaction through solving them in the "lab" without ever playing another hand.

The majority of spots are so straightfoward and well dull that playing full time is actually boring even when you're winning, and can be excruciatingly frustrating and annoying when you're losing. People say it's easier to deal with swings the more you play, but it's quite the opposite. The major EV spots you end up losing ithat you used to shrug off as nothing eventually build up until you boil over.

People tend to laugh and throw phrases around like "long run" and "maths" and "EV is all that matters"... but when you do nothing but break even and lose, even when people are trying their ****ing hardest to give you their money over and over again, you lose interest real fast. And if it's your job well, it makes it that much worse.

I don`t want to come off as rude. But you played this hand fishy as ****.

fold pre (Btn will call all day)
check/fold flop (this board hits them so hard and Btn won`t fold any piece)
check turn
check/f river

These are major leaks in my book.