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Old 11-04-2017, 07:34 PM   #126
Badreg2017
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzyqtp View Post
limp/calling a9o in the hj is a pretty big leak man. i would work on your ranges if you are really trying to take this seriously

have you considered putting in volume at micro-stakes online to learn? let's you get in a lot more volume with at lot less $ at risk. the fact you are playing full-time and struggling at 1/2 is pretty concerning imo.
It's not a play I would make without the whales being in the blinds. I felt that it was going to be profitable here.

I mean I guess I've been struggling but to some extent I'm not sure how much is my fault. At the Commerce I played a super tight range and just ran thousands below EV in preflop all ins with very few post flop decisions. At the Bike I definitely have played a wider range but I've done ok at the bike.
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Old 11-04-2017, 07:43 PM   #127
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
OP. Download equilab and make yourself some ranges. Make them really tight and expand. Dont make them loose and try to cut, thats a bad way to go about it.

Then draw (im not kidding) a chart for yourself. A nine handed table. And put the ranges to paper. Stick to 3 sections. Blinds/UTG. Ep-HJ. Co/BTN.

Dont worry about raise/call/limp/3bet for now. Literally just make a vpip (voluntary put in pot, means you play a hand) chart.

Paste chart in thread with tinypic url.

Do not stray from this chart. Not bc of a whale. Not bc you are deep. Not bc you are playing good. No reason. Follow this chart above all else.
I did make that chart during my off week using a combination of the default chart in equilab, poker snowie, and upswing's charts (mostly just the first two since upswing recommends a really wide range with suited hands which wouldn't work for the commerce or maybe for me in general).

For the next few sessions I'll try to stick to the chart no matter what, but unless things pick up I just don't see how I'm going to make any money doing so.

But hey, it's not like I'm killing it right now and maybe I'm leaking more than I thought so yea I'll try it your way. I'm also going to write down every hand I play for the next few sessions to see what's going on.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:06 PM   #128
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

10/3 results: 8.5 hours played up $185

Pretty card dead again but got stacks in for $200 after I opened AK UTG and both the blinds called. flop came AJ4r. I bet flop for $30 into $35 and got two calls. Turn was a 4 I bet 2/3 pot and got one call. I shipped a 3 river for just under half pot and got called by A7.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:34 PM   #129
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Ok well today has been a good day to decide to stick to a tight range, getting a lot of good hands, more than I get in the typical week lol. Not really getting good runnouts but it's better than having to fold every hand.

2/3 $300 max.

1. 3 limps I have 99 in LP I make it $18 and take it down.

2. Table is suuuuuuuper tight so I just make it $10 in the HJ with KK. BB calls.
Flop: A96 two spades. He checks I check. Turn 6. He bets $10 I call. River: 3 no flush. He bets $20. I think his is kind of close but he's a young guy and the only one not playing super tight so I call. I assume I have to call from a GTO perspective given the price and that I have very few aces or stronger hands but this is an exploitative fold I would often make.

3. I'm the effective stack with $300. Two limps, button, same 20's male from previous hand makes it $10. I make it $38 out of the BB with JJ. Folds to button to makes it $100.

I fold he shows QQ. Dodged a bullet there.

4. Lol my luck with KK continues:

Open to $15, call, I make it $50 in the HJ with KK, CO shoves for $75 with 89o, sb calls with 56s. the other two fold. I call. I actually thought sb was all in but he had like $25 in his hand. Flop was 894. I shove for $25 sb calls. Turn 3 river 2. Sb wins with a straight.

5. Finally I get to cooler someone. Got it in pre for about $220 3 betting AA out of the SB, he 4 bets, I 5 bet shove and he calls with KK.

6. UTG+1 who is playing super tight opens to $15. I open fold AQs in the LJ.

7. Two limps I limp ATddin the CO and blinds call.

Flop: AT4cch. BB bets $5 l, I raise to $17 he calls. Turn 5h. I bet $35 and he folds.

8. Open QcQs to $12 in the CO blinds call. Flop 567 two hearts. Tight player leads out of the BB for $15. I call and sb calls.

Turn offsuit 5. BB bets $25. I actually fold and sb calls. River K. Sb donk ships it for $80 and BB calls. BB shows 66 and sb shows 89.

9. Button who is playing tightish opens to $15. Sb calls. I fold KTo in the BB.

Currently up a bit but running about $122 below all in EV. I'm so confused by the hand where they shoved 56 and 89. I had only 3 bet with JJ and AA and they cold 4 bet shoved with 56 and then flatted 89 after playing tight pretty much all day. I would almost get a cold 4 bet shove as a bluff but I'm obviously never folding here for $25 more.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 11-04-2017 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:57 PM   #130
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

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For the next few sessions I'll try to stick to the chart no matter what, but unless things pick up I just don't see how I'm going to make any money doing so.
Still think you'd benefit from posting charts itt, but to address this:

Most people think great poker is Tom Dwan'ing the table and maximizing value out of every hand. However, live poker in particular has the very important characteristic of having zero fold equity. Because of this, hands that require fold equity or whos value is mostly balancing out our range (like 56s) go down in value, and hands that have raw value (like JJ) go significantly up in value.

Put a different way, an online crusher might have a higher win rate in his database for 56s than me, but definitely does not have a higher win rate for AA than me. It doesnt matter how poorly I play it, getting dealt Aces in live poker is like a guaranteed >20bbs.

As for being extremely tight, live poker is about minimizing losses in between your heaters. When you lose $40 in a 10 hour card dead session, that is actually a very good thing. Next session when you stack 2 people in 45 minutes, your overall win rate is that much better, noteably bc of your patience and discipline in the card dead session.
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:22 PM   #131
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

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Limping A9 is really bad. Calling a raise with it is totally horrific.

Give me T7s over A9
Ill take J9 over A9
54s....better than A9

A9 sucks. I want you to write that 100 times
Is it that bad though against people who play face up and will always pay off with second pair or worse? So I was in the HJ, the odds of one of the remaining players getting a trouble hand against me (AT-AK+TT-AA) is 22.5%. When people have JJ-AA and AK I'll get away from it ore a lot of the time. If the blinds have one of those hands they are going to open to a huge amount and I can just fold.

Then you have to remember all the times my opponents limp A2o-A8o which they will. They also have all the combos of 89o J9-K9o. One of them has just about every suited 9 and the others definitely have 69s+

So with A9o I'll usually wind up with a good hand relative to my opponents and have position on 2/3 of them.

Now if I'm at a table where people are playing tricky, not paying off with second pair three streets in a multiway pot etc then I completely understand.
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:36 PM   #132
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Still think you'd benefit from posting charts itt, but to address this:

Most people think great poker is Tom Dwan'ing the table and maximizing value out of every hand. However, live poker in particular has the very important characteristic of having zero fold equity. Because of this, hands that require fold equity or whos value is mostly balancing out our range (like 56s) go down in value, and hands that have raw value (like JJ) go significantly up in value.

Put a different way, an online crusher might have a higher win rate in his database for 56s than me, but definitely does not have a higher win rate for AA than me. It doesnt matter how poorly I play it, getting dealt Aces in live poker is like a guaranteed >20bbs.

As for being extremely tight, live poker is about minimizing losses in between your heaters. When you lose $40 in a 10 hour card dead session, that is actually a very good thing. Next session when you stack 2 people in 45 minutes, your overall win rate is that much better, noteably bc of your patience and discipline in the card dead session.
Thanks again for the feedback, I really do appreciate the support. I'll post the chart either today or tomorrow.

I agree with everything you wrote which is why I do typically play a tight range. I do occasionally play a wider range vs whales but believe me when I say it's pretty infrequent. I get a good amount of comments that I play tight.

The vast vast majority of the money I've lost has been from losing preflop all ins where I got it in good, followed by paying the blinds, followed by raising a hand like 99-QQ/AK/AQ and whiffing on the flop multiway.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 11-04-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:25 PM   #133
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Taking a break so posting a few more hands I played. I'll start with the one interesting one. I really am going to be playing tight but I felt good about this one spot given how he had been playing.

Also in hand 10 I make a bad fold.

H1: floating the flop and bluffing turn/river.

UTG, really bad rec player who has been on a heater playing hands like 84o etc (he was the one who cold called a 4 bet with 56s with only $25 behind), says it's his last hand and makes it $10 UTG. Two people call. I'm on the button with A2hh. I strongly consider all three options but mostly call or fold. For what it's worth my chart has this as a call or fold.

I call.

Flop: TdTh4d
Pot: $40

So I flop two back doors.

UTG continues for $15. He's been betting out with all of his pairs and draws on the flop so after it folds to me I give it some thought and decide to flop. As soon a I do a guy on his left says I must have a ten to him kind of quietly.

Turn is a ten.

He bets $15 again.

Again I have a tough decision but given how wide he is, and given that he's about to leave and doesn't want to lose his stack I think it's more profitable for me to continue. I decided to raise to just $40. He calls.

River 7. Diamonds miss.

He insta checks. I bet $75 and he folds 88. I opt to show since I'll probably not be bluffing much for the rest of the session.

2. Flat 44 for $6 in the CO. Consider just folding since he isn't deep. BB makes it $30 with KK. He isn't deep either. I fold. Opener had 22.

3. Open AK to $15 over limp he calls. Flop Q84r. I continue for $15 and he check raises to $55. I fold.

4. Open 22 to $12 in the HJ. CO shoves for $38. I was considering calling but BB calls. I fold. HJ had JTs and hit a ten and was good. No 2 came.

5. Open 55 on the button over a limp and take it down pre.

6. Open to $16 by UTG+2. I'm in the HJ with AQs. I opt to call. Flop: Js8h5d. He bets $25 and I fold.

7. UTG limps, I complete in the sb with 77. BB makes it $15. UTG calls. I actually fold since they both only have $150 in their stacks. I was really sure BB had a good hand since he didn't just chop but I didn't think I was getting the right odds to set mine OOP.

Guy had QQ. Flop came out ace high. Other guy had KJ. Would've hit my set but wouldn't have gotten paid off much.

8. Open AK and get three callers. Whiff flop and fold to donk bet and a call.

9. Are these turn and river sizings rediculous?

Someone who hasn't played many hands limps the CO, I make it $12 on the button with AA he calls.

Flop: 89T two diamonds.

Pot:$23

He's an older guy and has been playing tight and I don't expect him to check raise bluff very often so I decide to bet $20 he call.

Turn is a K.

Really not the turn I wanted to see but after he checks I opt to bet small to hopefully get value from draws and a ten. I bet $30 into $61 and he calls.

River is a brick like an offsuit 3.

He checks. Again, I think I'm basically never getting bluff raised but I just don't have many value targets. I just throw out $35 and he takes a little while and calls. I win.

10. Well I ****ed up.

I got AhAd, no idea how I'm getting aces so much. This has to be more than the rest of the trip together.

Open to $12 BB calls.

Flop: Th9h3d.

I bet $15 he shoves for $125. I was most likely calling but while I'm thinking I ask for a count and then he gives this speech about how I keep betting small and he might as well just go all in. Idk he was in his late 60's, had been playing really passive so I just thought this speech was always two pair or better.

I folded and ask him to show and he showed AT.

In the Midwest games I play in I can comfortably make this fold but people in LA are just so much more gamby that I think I have to call here.

The thing is I mostly have been making these calls, I called a much bigger shove earlier this week in the same spot and was correct but I opted to trust my gut and was just wrong.

11. Open to $15, call, I call with 99 and whiff flop.

12. I open to $12 in the CO with 88 and get two calls from the blinds. I whiff flop and fold to a donk bet and a raise.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 11-04-2017 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:43 PM   #134
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

13. Should I bet this river?

I open to $12 in the HJ with A5s. Guy who has been playing fairly tight with a $110 stack calls in the CO.

Flop AJ3r. I check he checks it back.

Turn: K. Brings bd flush draw.

I bet $20 and he calls.

River 7. Flush misses.

Should I bet this river?
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:46 PM   #135
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Yes
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Old 11-05-2017, 12:05 AM   #136
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Ok, I was a little ambivalent just because he seemed fairly nitty and I thought he would have more KJ than most after calling turn and would be more hesitant to call with a hand like KQ.

On the other hand, I checked flop because no one believes you ever have an A after checking flop (and to pot control since he's tight and I wasn't getting 3 streets anyway)

I bet small, just $25 and he called and showed KJ.
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Old 11-05-2017, 12:41 AM   #137
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Yeah that's w/e. Betting small for value is a must. =]
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Old 11-05-2017, 01:07 AM   #138
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Taking a break so a few more hands. Idk what's going on but I'm getting a ****load of good starting hands.

14. I open QQ to $12 get a call from tight player and a guy in the SB.

Flop: Q53r.

Checks. I could bet but since the guy on my left is going to have a ton of AcKx in his range I'm checking hoping he hits. If he has a Q he will bet anyway. I'm just losing some money if sb has a Q.

Turn 7. Brings bd diamond draw.

He checks, I bet $20, fold, he check raises to $47. We each have like $400 back.

I don't want to blow him off his hand but he doesn't have too many strong hands other than sets and there are a good amount of action killing rivers. I opt to raise to $120 and he tanks for a while and folds.


15. Open to $15, call, I raise AK to $60, cold 4 bet to $140, cold 5 bet shove to $170, I fold. They had KK and QQ.


16/17 Two minor hands:
I flatted KQ in the in the BB vs a CO opening somewhat wide. Flop 884 I check fold.

I flatted AQo in the HJ vs a limp and an open from UTg+2 Didn't 3 bet because guy had been fairly passive. Flop J87 two spades. I folded to a half pot cbet... guy did have KK though.

18. Small mistake and probably cost myself some value with bad sizing. Could've also bet river.

I open QJo OTB to $12 and BB calls.

Flop QJ8 two clubs. I think I should just pot this but I bet $15 into $20 and he calls.

Turn 6d brings bd diamonds as well.

I bet $40 into $49 and he calls.

River Td. Bd flush bets there and straights get there. He probably doesn't have AK but he could. Definitely has all the K9. Probably only has the 79s.

He checks, I think about it but check it back. Maybe I should've bet. I could've got value from JT, QT and maybe KQ. I guess I could've just bet/folded but he wasn't a super face up player so I could be folding the best hand.

I'm pretty sure by his reaction he had a missed draw since he pretty much insta mucked after I checked but still.

The more I think about it the more I think I should've bet river. Oh well.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 11-05-2017 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 11-05-2017, 01:45 AM   #139
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

19. Will I ever win a preflop all in?

Limp from guy playing wide, open to $10, call. I'm on the button and I have 88. No one has more than $100 so I opt to 3 bet to $40. Not getting as good a price to set mine, I'm usually ahead or flipping here and I have some fold equity+dead money.

PFR shoves for $65 total I call.

He has QJs and wins.

It was neither a big pot nor and it was just a coinflip but I'm just running so far below EV and it doesn't seem to end.

Up about $85 or so even with all the good starting hands. I guess I did screw up folding the AA so that was a lot of value lost but I also made some solid folds with the JJ and AK that saved me money. Also made about $90 with the hand I floated A2 and then bluffed twice so that mitigates the mistake a little bit...

I guess I mostly have myself to blame for the lack of winnings as I folded the AA and checked back the QJ. But I'm also running about $180 below EV on the session.

Oh and small typing error in hand 10. Flop was T83 in the AA hand.

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Old 11-05-2017, 02:15 AM   #140
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

H20. Top two pair no good on monotone flop.

I table changed and had just sat down.

Limp, I open KQss in the HJ at a new table. BB calls and limper calls. BB is about 30 and Asian.

Flop KQ5 all diamonds.

Pot:35

I bet $25 and BB raises to $60. He has about $150 behind after he raises. I strongly consider folding but opt to call at least once and evaluate. Probably would've defaulted to folding but after the AA hand I decided against making wildly exploitative folds without significant history.

Turn is another diamond. He snap shoves and I snap fold.

He showed T3dd. The limper btw had T3 cc.

H21
Just got a nice bluff through. Will post details and rest of hands when done.

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Old 11-05-2017, 02:52 AM   #141
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

You've got to be ****ting me. Got it all in pre with AA v KK v KJ $700 pot.

What he actual ****. How does this keep happening?????

I'm now $750 below all in EV on the day and probably at least 4K below EV on the trip.

So the donk who had T3 and who I had shown a successful bluff against, opened to $15, there was a call by a short stack guy, I 3 bet to $50, Bb calls with KJ, PFR makes it $150 I jam and he calls.

I used a smaller 3 bet sizing since this guy was just playing horrendously post flop and the other guy was short anyway.

Going to take 20 minute break and go back. In the past I would probably just leave but I'm going to regroup and keep at it.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 11-05-2017 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 11-05-2017, 03:21 AM   #142
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Losing AA to KK shouldn't bother you.
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Old 11-05-2017, 03:44 AM   #143
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

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Losing AA to KK shouldn't bother you.
I do understand the concept that both players got unlucky so it's not a big deal.

I'm upset at the fact that I'm running like $4,000 below EV in preflop all ins over the last few weeks. I just can't get a break and it's hurting my ability to be able to move up in stakes.

It's also just discouraging in general; losing over and over and over just kills my desire to play and study. I know that's something I need to work on, it shouldn't be that way and it's something I will have to fix. Currently working on it as I'm still playing.
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Old 11-05-2017, 04:05 AM   #144
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Well I've made good decisions since getting back. Not playing emotionally.

H23 I opened to $15 with KJ in the CO after donk limped the HJ

Flop J37r.

He checks I bet 20 he calls.

Turn 3. I bet 40 he calls. He counts out a raise to $80 before just calling. Pretty sure this is an act.

River Q.

He checks. I bet just $50 and he calls. I'm good against a 7.

H24. Straddle, 3 calls. I open KJo on the button to $45 and take it down.

H25: open QJ in the CO. Goes 3 way. Board is AAJ two tone. checks through. Turn is a low card that brings a second flush draw. I bet and take it down.

H26. Open KTs in the HJ. CO who has been playing tightish and straight forward 3 bets to $30. We had been joking around and I was curious so I fold and show and he shows QQ.

H27. Straddle, I open AQ UTG+1. Could go either way but this table is attrocious and this is borderline enough.

I get called by 85o in MP, unknown BB who is a complete donk and 56o from the straddle.

Flop KJ5. Two clubs.

Checks.

Turn 3 offsuit.

With $60 in the pot someone bets $5, straddle raises to $10 with his 65o and I call.

River is a 5 and I end up folding to a $35 bet.
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Old 11-05-2017, 05:47 AM   #145
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

10.5 hours played down $240

H28
Caught horrendous luck to end the day. Open 89cc and BB who is complete whale calls. He plays ATC. Here's a great hand we played earlier. I opened UTG eand bet into 5 people and he and someone else called on a J62r board with one heart. Turn was a 3h and he donked with Q9hh into the two of us. He then called a jam from the other guy.

Flop KJ6 one club check check. Turn 5c. He bets $20 I call.

River Kc giving me a flush. He bets $20 I raise to $60 and he calls with T2cc.

H29.

Straddle. I open to $17 in the LJ with 99. Straddler raises to $35. He's the guy who plays T3 and who sucked out with KK and has been trying to go after me all night. He slowrolled me in the KK hand.

Flop Q43 r.

He insta bets $55 and I call. It's kinda close between call or fold but I think against this guy I have to call once. It's usually a fold for me. Turn K. He bets $200 and I fold. He shows AA.

Also had a few hands with like AK/AQ wher I opened and whiffed.
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Old 11-05-2017, 08:57 AM   #146
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

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Is it that bad though against people who play face up and will always pay off with second pair or worse? So I was in the HJ, the odds of one of the remaining players getting a trouble hand against me (AT-AK+TT-AA) is 22.5%. When people have JJ-AA and AK I'll get away from it ore a lot of the time. If the blinds have one of those hands they are going to open to a huge amount and I can just fold.

Then you have to remember all the times my opponents limp A2o-A8o which they will. They also have all the combos of 89o J9-K9o. One of them has just about every suited 9 and the others definitely have 69s+

So with A9o I'll usually wind up with a good hand relative to my opponents and have position on 2/3 of them.

Now if I'm at a table where people are playing tricky, not paying off with second pair three streets in a multiway pot etc then I completely understand.
If you are playing in games where people are paying off 3 streets with 2nd pair, you should have a win rate of 20BB+/hr.
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Old 11-07-2017, 02:53 AM   #147
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Game was super dead at the Bike so after 5 hours and $50 in profit I decided to try out Hollywood Park.

Nothing interesting at the Bike. Got some good starting hands but didn't play any big pots.

Then I got this gem from Hollywood Park:

Second hand of 3/5 $300 max:

Straddle, call, call I make it $50 with AdKc. One of the limpers calls.

Flop: KQ5 two spades.

Pot:120

I bet 70 he calls.

Turn: 5.

Pot: 260

I ship it for 180 he calls.

Villain shows K2o.

River 5.

We chop.

I mean I guess it's encouraging someone limp called Utg+1 with K2o.

I feel like I must be on the Truman show and will tell me the last month was just a prank.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:11 AM   #148
Badreg2017
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Got into one interesting spot:

A few limps I check KdQc in the BB which is kinda meh but I had just squeezed the last hand and hate this hand OOP.

Flop: QdJd2s

I pot it and two call.

Turn is an offsuit 9. Not a great card but I can get value from a lot of draws and worse queens given it's a limped pot so I bet 50 into 80.

Call, then a guy ships it for $200.

I opt to fold and he turned over KT for the nuts.

My thought process was that since the Q and J were diamonds that's fewer combo draws, ATs probably raises pre (he was in the HJ). I only have 22 percent equit against two pair.

He seemed like a fairly straightforward player but I had only been at the table for like 1.5 hours.

Also got into a weird hand where I open Kings and get two calls.

BB donks for 45 into 45 on J87r.

Alarm bells going off but I obviously call.

Turn 7.

He bets 45 again I call. Now I'm feeling pretty good unless he bombs the river.

River 6.

He bets 35... should I raise this? Click it back to like for like 75-100 or so and try to get hero called by an 8 or Jx?
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:34 AM   #149
meale
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Deeefinitely be raising if not turn on the river.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:49 AM   #150
Badreg2017
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Re: Talking my shot at becoming a live pro.

Caught some awesome run good and made 3 correct nitty folds. Ended up correctly folding red KK on Q84 all clubs against QQ, folded JT on TT5-6-2 against a straight, and folded the KQ from above which I guess wasn't super nitty but it was correct.

For the run good I had the above KK hand which I ended up winning, and I opened 77 UTG, and the blinds called. Checked to me and I continued on T22 two tone for half pot which was a little marginal but whatever. I would imagine both betting and checking at some frequency is ok. Always betting 33-99 would leave you with a pretty weak checking range. I guess it's probably better to bet the more vulnerable pairs like 33? The other problem with using those hands as a bluff is they can rarely improve. But sometimes they do:

Turn is a 7. I bet like 50 into 80 and he reraises to $130, he has about $130 behind and I ship it and he calls. He shows A2 and miraculously I get the hold.

7.5 hours played, up roughly $300. If I got that AK to hold would've been a really nice day. I'm still really happy though given my recent results.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 11-07-2017 at 05:01 AM.
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