1) EP opens $25. EP2 calls. I shove $280 from the BB with KK. EP calls with QQ HU and I hold up.


So stupid how that's standard. Whoever came up with the idea of a 300cap 5/10 is the biggest spazz

The SS 5/10 runs almost all day every day. Sometimes they have 2 tables. People love it. I dont know why exactly. I think they just like the excitement of getting all in and gambling a lot. I like it because its very profitable and I think the risk is lower than 2/5. It will be interesting to compare StnDev after a little while.

We've discussed this before, but this is sorta why I'm not a fan of your All-in EV calc as it's not really reflective of how you're running. In 1.5 hours, you got KK vs QQ, and also got AA and flopped a set; and yet none of that is factored into any calculation of how you're running (which, in this 1.5 hour session, is hotter than the sun).

Gnothatin',justsayin'G

We can never measure all the factors involved in running hot/cold. We cant keep track of how many times we flop a FD, how often we actually hit it...ect. We can also argue that I ran hot by hitting a set of Aces or I could argue I ran cold because when I finally hit a set of Aces against a fool who also flopped TP, the board ran out terribly for me. I dont try to track that stuff. Its impossible.

But we can keep track of the results of the all in hands which are pretty rare and have a huge impact on win rate when they happen. I like keeping track of it even more in this game because there are way more all ins.

Im definitely running hot in these first 2 SS 5/10 sessions. Cards wise and All in EV wise.

I went to PBKC today to play the SS 5/10 but got seated at 2/5 first. Once again I could not pull my ass out of my 2/5 seat to go play the SS 5/10 because the 2/5 is so soft here compared to the Isle. Ive said it a a million times, but the Isle is the toughest 2/5 game Ive ever played at as far as top end win rates. Ive played 33 poker rooms in the past 2 1/2 years and the Isle absolutely has to be the lowest realistic top end win rates.

5 hrs later I won $1380 at 2/5 and never played the SS 5/10.

Here are a couple hands from the last session:

1) I limp 9h8h UTG. We go 4 to the flop
Flop ($20) Th4h2c. BB bets $15. I raise to $35. He calls HU
Turn ($90) Jd. He checks. BB instacalled my raise so I think he could have a pretty strong hand and I check back.
River ($90) Qs. He bets $55 with $200 behind. I shove. He calls with QT. He wasnt as strong as I thought on the flop

2) Ive raised $40 from the BB after 3-4 limps the last 2 orbits and taken it down. 2 guys said that they wouldve call $35.

I get AsAc in the BB and make it $35 after 3 limps. The first limper calls.

Flop ($80) Qh4s3s. I bet $50. He raises to $125 with $200 total. I shove. He calls with AQ and I hold up.

3) MP limps. I raise to $25 9d8d in the cutoff. Button calls HU.

Flop ($55) 9c7s5d. He has 125. I bet $40. He calls quickly.
Turn ($135) 3c. I shove. He calls quickly.
River ($305) Td. I table and he mucks.

4) Button straddle. I raise to $40 AhQd SB. MP and button call. We are all deepish

Flop ($120) JhTh4s. Check around
Turn ($120) 6h. I bet $50. MP calls
River ($220) 6c. X/X. He wins with Td8d.

5) I limp 33 in EP. 2 more limps. Button makes it $15. Both blinds call. I call. We go 6 to the flop

Flop ($90) Ad3d2s. Blinds check. I lead $50. MP ($250) calls. Button ($350) calls
Turn ($240) 5h. I bet $150. They both fold.

If you end up playing with a young guy wearing some sort of N.C. team hat/attire (panthers, hornets, tar heels) try and take it easy on me.

I'll keep an eye out for you.

Played some more SS 5/10 today. I'm telling you this game is a freaking gold mine. I really hated to leave today when I did as the table was starting to get deep but my phone was about to die, I was about to die of starvation, and my wife was going out of town so I headed home to hang out with her. Some things are more important.

I played 3.9 hours and won $544. I ran a little over All in EV again in 4 all ins.

TT vs AK all in preflop...I won
AQ vs 75s all in preflop...I won
AK vs AQ all in preflop...I lost
AA vs KK all in on the turn...I won.

A couple other hands..

1) 2 fish limp. I raise $45 AcKs OTB. Cutoff limper calls.

Flop ($110) Ts4s6c....X/X
Turn ($110) 2s....X/X
River ($110) 5s. He bets $55. I call and lose to As6s

2) I open $30 QhJd in the cutoff. Same fish calls BB
Flop ($60) Qc4c8s. He check/calls $35
Turn ($130) Ad...X/X
River ($130) 9d....Im calling any bet. This guy bluffs non stop. He bets $75. I instacall and he mucks.

I was very very card dead most of the SS 5/10 session. In case anyone feels like Im on some super heater, Ive run $1300 under all in EV at 2/5 this month and $4870 under all in EV since March 1st at 2/5.

Total SS 5/10 hrs played...8.9
Actual win rate...$154.72/hr
Adjusted win rate....$113.15/hr

H#1, it's my experience that people snap calling a flop raise usually indicates a TPGK-type hand (maybe even 99 on Txx board, etc.), or a FD/OESD. As I'm sure you're familiar w/ basic tell theory, their quick calls are meant to manipulate you into slowing down on future cards (case in point here, it worked, on a perfect barrel card no less -- ouch). Of course there are exceptions to all rules, but I generally view this as the rule.

Im not sure that's a perfect barrel card in a limped pot. Of course it gives me more equity, but he has no reason to think I have a J so I think hes more likely to check raise me if he had 2 pair or a set than he is to fold thinking I just outdrew him on the turn.

You literally provided no reads, so not sure why I'd think a 2/5 random can read your hand all that well, let alone even know how to respond with perfect information if he did.

As for Jx, you could easily have any Jx FD in lol live limped pot. JT too, unless somehow he knows you never have JT. A set is also a very real possibility. You could have limped AA & are now "protecting", etc.

You gotta put yourself in villains shoes/mindset Mike. I get that's difficult, but random overcards are still scary for your average rec/reg. They're not reading your soul. They are not nearly as good as you, yet you leveled yourself completely here in multiple ways, and thankfully got bailed out by the river.

Edit: Who cares if he could have a set/2PR here? MUBSY.

We need to care if he could have a set or 2 pair. He's in the BB. He could easily have any of the pair hands on a T42 board where he wouldnt if he wasnt the BB. He called my raise instantly so he has minimum TP or 2 pair. Its not like hes gonna have middle pair and fold the turn all the time. I guess he could also call quickly with a FD but that's unlikely since I have it.

So Im going to get check raised on the turn a fair amount of the time. Why not take the free card? That's the whole purpose of the small flop raise in the first place. Betting the turn is not out of the question after picking up more equity but as I said, he really has no reason to think I have a J. If I did have JhXh I would def bet the turn.

Of course most JhXh that I would play, I wouldve raised preflop. (Not that he knows that)

What does a "fair amount of the time" actually mean in quantitative terms to you? This also has a bit of crossover w/ the conversation happening in the So Flo Grinder thread, so I'm genuinely interested, because I think this sort of imprecise thinking leads to all sorts of passivity errors.

For example, I could easily demonstrate to you that in general this dude has way more Tx that just insta-muck turn, than he does sets/2PR that are now ready to spring that trap you seem to fear so much. Combos matter man. This is but one example where "feel play" falls flat on its face.

Also, the live tell should 100% be a green light to 3 barrel this genius. He has 2PR almost never, because he'd have to think about it some. You are correct in that you block a very small handful of FD though, but I find that negligible on the whole.

I find this the opposite. When people have TP here they tend to think about if for a bit when they get raised and try to figure out what I have. They try to figure out if they want to risk losing a big pot. When they have 2 pair or better or even TPTK, they call quickly because they are never folding.

Your experience may be different but I raise a lot of flops in limped pots so maybe that's what I see more of.

Ill leave the math up to smarter people, but I dont think that's a great runout to 3 barrel with air (if I didnt have 98). Even though the turn and river are overcards, they are overcards that hes likely to have hit 2 pair with if he didnt already have 2 pair.

I could be swayed if someone could show me some math otherwise. I have definitely started barrelling more than I used to since I play in deeper games now but this guy wasnt deep and it was a limped pot so thats a whole different ballgame.

Here's an interesting stat that boggles my mind.

After 3200 hrs of 2/5 tracking All in EV...Ive run so far under All in EV that my win rate should be 13.6% higher. If I ran neutral in my all in pots, I wouldve won 13.6% more money. That seems like an astronomical amount to me over a pretty large sample.

In all other stakes...1/2, 1/3 and 5/10...Ive run 1.5% OVER All in EV.

Im no stat expert but I would think +/- 3-5% would be fairly normal over a large sample. 13.6% has to be way outside anything that would be considered normal. In total, over all stakes I'm about 10.5% under All in EV.

Forget about ever getting back to even, Id give my left nut just to run even from here.

To commemorate my last post, the poker gods provided me with another $670 in lost All in EV today. $530 in the SS 5/10 game when I lost JJ vs 99 all in and another $140 in 2/5 when I lost AKs vs KK all in for $200 each.

Even though I lost $325 in the JJ hand, I only lost $95 in 90 mins of the SS 5/10. The JJ hand was my only all in, but I managed to bob and weave and win $40 here and $60 there between blinding down and losing $10 here and there limping in and missing.

I did pull of one bluff which is not easy at all in this game where everyone is short.

I completed the SB with T9 after 2 limps.
Flop ($40) J84. X around
Turn ($40) A. I checked. EP checked. MP bet $20. LP called. I cr to $100 and took it down.

Total hrs played...10.3
Actual win rate...$124.47
Adjusted win rate...$141.94

I came up with an analogy that describes the SS 5/10 game.

The game is very tricky and takes a lot more concentration than any standard game Iv ever played. A normal game you can limp in and splash around and it doesnt hurt. You may lose a few limps but eventually you hit a big hand and make it back. In this game where you are only 30BBs effective a lot of the time and sometimes less, a limp is very expensive and any time you enter the pot for any reason you may be stacking off.

Preflop decisions are everything. Is your 99 ahead of a preflop raiser? You cant call to set mine so you need to decide and shove or fold. Most people still call to set mine but they are donks.

So every decision you make is crucial and your stack is at risk. You can limp fold hardly ever. The game is very profitable because people are so bad but its also ridiculously high variance. Over the long term the best players will win like all games but the short term can hurt really badly.

So here's what it feels like to play this game. Imagine you and another guy are standing on a baseball field. Nolan Ryan is throwing fastballs at you. When you get hit you lose your money. When he gets hit you win his money. You know you are quicker than the other guy so you'll be able to dodge more of them and get hit less, but man oh man when you do get hit, it hurts like hell.

99 is a bad example as its not a pure set mine. If someone opens to 3b and we have 30bb effective in position with 99 we should be flatting. Hands like 22-66 become folds though.

IDK this seems incorrect...your stack off points are really simple since you are playing at most 2 streets...you don't really have to concern yourself too much with RIO. Basically you just have to understand how your hands play against ranges and decide if you have the equity or whatever.

I think this is where your lack of grasp/dismissiveness of fundamentals could be an issue though. This game is literally about playing equities and ranging opponents. That should be all it is about until the game gets a bit deeper from an effective standpoint.

I agree 100%, but to win in this game you have to be able to determine if 99 is ahead of their range and it varies widely by player. There are guys who raise $40 with A8s even though the table is short stacked. Against other guys 99 is in big trouble.

There are guys who raise $60 with AK but $35 with AA. If you arent watching every hand intently and picking up these sizing tells and reads, you are in trouble. That's my point and why it takes so much more concentration. The preflop decision is crucial. You're not going to get very much more info post flop.

You need to play a proper ss strategy. There are several informative threads on the subject on this site.

Fair enough.

As I said a little while ago, Im in guerilla warfare mode. Poker during the summer in S. Florida can really suck. One thing is for sure...the daytime 2/5 at the Isle sucks balls. The action is non existent. Ive been bouncing around playing different games in different places. Today I was playing my old stand by. The Isle 2/5 and boy did it suck. No action at all. I stood up and said "screw this, Im going to play 1/2 where there's more action"

I'm sure people thought I was joking but I wasnt. I picked up my $600 or so stack and moved one table over to the 1/2...stuck 3 blacks in my pockets and sat down. It happened to be about 3:57 so it was very close to the end of the dealers down.

I went to 1/2 and my very first hand I won $210. There hadn't been a pot big enough at my 2/5 table to win $210 in the last 2 hours. The dealer who was dealing my 2/5 ended his down and came to replace my dealer. He saw me sitting and said

Dealer : "Wow, I thought you were joking.....but you know the max buy in is $300 here right?".

I was sitting with $510.

Me: "Of course I know that. I sat with $300".
Dealer: "But you just moved"
Me: "Exactly"

I played 5 pots over $250 in an hour. I won some and lost some and left 1 1/2 hrs later up $300. Look out Isle 1/2 players. Looks like you'll be seeing more of me.