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Old 06-09-2017, 10:40 AM   #51
DeathCabForTootie
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

most hands should fold to your 3! pre or jam, but we all know a lot of players aren't thinking that deeply. life in llsnl is like a box of chocolates, etc. to be clear: i'm okay with l/rr AJ as it sucks to play oop and you had a plan. the rest of the hand tho...

imo in 3 bet pots most players are very straight forward so i expect a bet from a king or better and he'll check back everything else. if you're thinking he's light and he's gonna shove flop with ATC, let him; middle pair is the nuts. shoving folds out any chance of him bluffing while only getting called by better.
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:51 AM   #52
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

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most hands should fold to your 3! pre or jam, but we all know a lot of players aren't thinking that deeply. life in llsnl is like a box of chocolates, etc. to be clear: i'm okay with l/rr AJ as it sucks to play oop and you had a plan. the rest of the hand tho...

imo in 3 bet pots most players are very straight forward so i expect a bet from a king or better and he'll check back everything else. if you're thinking he's light and he's gonna shove flop with ATC, let him; middle pair is the nuts. shoving folds out any chance of him bluffing while only getting called by better.
I was in position and he already checked. Clearly I could've bet less than all in but the pot was $300 already and I had only a little more than that left.

If I bet $150 and he shoves, are you folding for $175ish with a $775 pot? I only need 18% equity at that point and I have about 14% vs AK and 24% vs KQ. I would probably have to bet no more than $100 to be able to fold. I guess betting $100 on the flop is fine?
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Old 06-09-2017, 10:57 AM   #53
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Think xback is fine. He often has 2 outs. If you're worried about free cards betting 20% pot is decent. It's not likely people bluff here as they put you on AK.

My preferred would be xback. Call down vr spazzy/agro fish. Call 1 small bet vr meh/click button fish. Fold to straightforward fish to any > $100 bet going in.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:15 AM   #54
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

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I was in position and he already checked. Clearly I could've bet less than all in but the pot was $300 already and I had only a little more than that left.

If I bet $150 and he shoves, are you folding for $175ish with a $775 pot? I only need 18% equity at that point and I have about 14% vs AK and 24% vs KQ. I would probably have to bet no more than $100 to be able to fold. I guess betting $100 on the flop is fine?
i check back the flop for the reasons i stated: i can't see many (any?) hands we can get value from and we aren't folding out better hands with maybe a few combos of QQ. may bet super small on the turn or river but i'm trying to get to showdown as cheap as possible.
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Old 06-09-2017, 09:23 PM   #55
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

The poker gods are really testing me right now. Ive been running into coolers at crazy pace for 2 weeks now. Today within 15 mins of each other.

1) EP limps. I make it $25 AA. BB and limper call
Flop ($75) Q72. They check. I bet $50. Limper calls
Turn ($175) 9. He check/calls $125
River ($425) T. He check/calls $150....He has 77

15 mins later

I limp 99 in EP. Cutoff raises to $15. SB calls. I call.
Flop ($50) 9TJ We check to cutoff who bets $30. SB folds. I check raise to $110. He calls.
Turn ($270) 3. He bets $100 out of turn. I check and make his bet stand and then crai to $360. He instacalls with QQ.

River K....FML.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:15 AM   #56
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Hang in there Mike. In my opinion its through rouch stretches like this the true winners show themself.

Everytime i have a session where i run good or things goes my way i tell myself to enjoy the moment, and remind myself that it can end with a second and i can in theory go on the worst downswing i have ever experienced.

Its like something DGAF wrote in his legendary poast about "the abyss": its not like we should lose our sleep or something worrying about hitting a soul crushing downswing, but its more a little reminder to keep in the back of our head when things go well. It can turn around, and when variance show you their darkest sides it can be worse than you ever could imagine.

GL with the summergrind and the other life-plans as well Mike. I am leaving for Vegas in 1 week, so i am crossing my fingers for some decent rungood down there
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:52 AM   #57
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Here's a line I use from time to time when its HU

I open to $20 in HJ with QJ. Only the BB calls

Flop ($40) Q73. I dont expect this to be a big pot at all (and really dont want it to be), so when he checks to e I check back with TP to get value from hands worse than TP.
Turn ($40) A.....well that card sucks. He checks. My plan is ruined so I just check back.
River ($40) Q. He checks. I bet $35. He calls with 66. I assume he thinks Im FOS with this line. Would he call a flops bet OOP with 66 here? Maybe but I doubt it
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:00 AM   #58
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

1) you got off easy unless villain was AI OTR. It's easy to stack off at twice this stack depth against a lot of villains I play against.

2) villain had 10 outs, not exactly a horrible beat as you know.

As someone who is now running hotter than 10 suns but was in the depths of hell for the first 3 months of the year, I can tell you it will get better. The hands played themselves, nothing you can do in either one.

Serious question: what steps have you taken to improve your mental game?
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:10 AM   #59
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Out of genuine curiousity, what kind of steps do you recommend in order to improve the mental game Deathcab?
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:18 AM   #60
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

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1) you got off easy unless villain was AI OTR. It's easy to stack off at twice this stack depth against a lot of villains I play against.

2) villain had 10 outs, not exactly a horrible beat as you know.

As someone who is now running hotter than 10 suns but was in the depths of hell for the first 3 months of the year, I can tell you it will get better. The hands played themselves, nothing you can do in either one.

Serious question: what steps have you taken to improve your mental game?
1) No he wasnt all in on the river. He had another $125 or so left. I was 95% sure I had the winner. I didnt think he would call any more with Qx. I was shocked that he played a set like that. Scared money I guess.

2) In a vacuum of course its not horrible. But when you lose a big pot to a set and then lose an even bigger pot with a set just a few minutes later it sucks twice as bad. I lost another big pot earlier to a very disguised set with TPTK.

Not sure what steps a person can take to improve their mental game unless they are tilt prone which Im not. Im older than most 2+2ers. Ive been around the block in life and the poker table. So I ***** about getting outdrawn in a big hand or text a friend to vent....and then keep playing my game. About the only thing I may do after a couple beats is if Ive already been playing 3 hours or so I will sometimes quit early even if I was planning on playing 4-5 hours. Not because I cant play well, but because poker just isnt as fun when your losing and its not all about the money for me. I can play anytime and anywhere I want so I focus on keeping it convenient, fun and entertaining. When it becomes stressful or frustrating I can easily quit for the day. That's kind of what I meant in my original post in this thread when I said I dont have the same stresses as a regular poker pro. I dont have to keep grinding even when poker sucks because I need the money to pay the bills.
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:25 AM   #61
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Tilt comes in many forms, not just when you are on the losing end of a beat. Entitlement tilt is one I see pop up with other good players. Even as a spazzy hobbyist donk I take the time to minimize entitlement tilt out of my game. It's insidious and few recognize the negative impact it has on one's game.

I believe working on one's mental game allows them to also play their A game more, and their B and C game improves.

Jared Tendler has a series of mental game books. I re-read his first one regularly. Highly recommended.
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:44 AM   #62
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

For sure agree. Ive been working alot on mental game status over the last couple years, even though i havent been reading any of Tendlers books. Today i feel that the mental area and mental balance is one of my strongest edges in the games. Gonna have it in back of my mind though, cause noticed many players recommending that mental game of poker book.

Entitlement tilt is extremely common and manifests itself in peoples actual playingstyle in lots of different ways. Especially the "i am so much better than anybody else, so therefor i can isoraise 2 fish limps with 3-5 suited, or open raise 9-6 suited UTG 10 handed. The rules that apply for others doesent apply to me cause i am that good kind of attitude".
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:03 AM   #63
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

So today I decided to play 1/2 for 2 reasons.

1) When Im struggling a bit, I find a 1/2 session very low stress and calming
2) As ridiculous as this sounds, my ( only 200 hour sample) 1/2 win rate is actually higher than my 2/5 win rate. I have no where near enough hours at 1/2 to know my true win rate but I do know that the players are so much worse than 2/5 players that it boggles my mind. Some of the hands I get paid off with is astonishing.

I normally play 4-5 hour sessions. I just finished an epic 12 hour session which ended with me having a $1950 stack. This is a $300 max buy in game.

My session included 2 hands where I lost $175 each. One hand were I lost $100 all in preflop. One $150 loss and one $200 loss. All of that and I still won $1650 (bought in for the full $300).

I find there to be much more action at the 1/2 tables than the 2/5...at least where I play. The few times when the table was pretty tight, I just kept raising until people started calling. Even with my relentless raising preflop I only got 3 bet 1 time and even though its obvious that these guys assume a 3bet is always AA/KK, people still called my 3 bets with AT and other junk hands.
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:57 AM   #64
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

I played hella LAG yesterday so there's so many interesting hands. Here are a few that I can remember.

1) 2 limps. I raise to $15 Jh9h. UTG calls. UTG+1 shoves to $27. I call. UTG calls.
Flop ($84) 8h7d5c. She checks. I shove. She folds. UTG+1 has QhTh
Turn A
River T
I win

2) I limp Td9d in EP. 2 more limps. BB raises to $12. I call. One more call.
Flop ($49) 8d7c2d. BB bets $20. I shove. Folds to him and he calls off $130 with KdKh.
Turn 7h
River Qd
I win.

3) I open in MP to $10 Tc8c. Only SB calls.
Flop ($22) AcJc8h. He check/calls $25.
Turn ($72) Jd. X/X
River ($72) Some brick and he leads out for like $40. I fold

4) EP limps. I raise to $15 Qd8d from cutoff. Button calls. Not good! Limper calls.
Limper and I are very deep.
Flop ($48) KsQs8c. EP checks. I bet $25. They both call.
Turn ($123) 4c. EP checks. I bet $85. Button folds. EP tank/folds and says "Your set of Qs is good". I show. He gets visibly upset.

5) Button straddle $5 Same EP as hand #4 limps. I limp Tc7c in LP. 5 to the flop
Flop ($28) Qc5c9h. EP bets $19. I raise to $40. He calls HU
Turn ($108) 8h. He checks. I thought about betting big here but after showing my previous hand I decided to check and take the free card.
River ($108) Js. He checks. I bet $65. He tank/folds

6) Button straddles $5. This is the same EP from hand #4. Hes actually pretty tough player. I complete 77 in BB. We are something like 400BBs. 2 MP limps. Button makes it $27. I call and we're HU
Flop ($64) Jd7c3h. I check/call $35
Turn ($134) 2h. I check. He bets $110. Clearly I can put in a big check raise here since we are so deep but I honestly felt like he had absolutely nothing. We had been battling for a couple hours and I was getting the best of him. He was getting frustrated. I call.
River ($354) 7h. I think and check. He tanks. He picks up $250. Tanks some more and finally says "You win" and surrenders. UGH!

8) 3 limps. I make it $17 KsKc. 3 calls.
Flop ($72) 9c6c6s. They check to me. I bet $50. SB crai to $85. MP calls. I call
Turn ($327) 4d. MP checks. I shove. He calls off $130.
River ($587) Tc. I show and they both muck.

7) EP limp. I raise to $15 6s5s. Only the SB calls
Flop ($35) 6h5c4d. He check/calls $20
Turn ($75) Jh. He check/calls $60.
River ($195) 8h. He shoves $60. Blah! I called. This was an obvious mistake. He had Th7h.

8) Button straddle. Couple limps. I limp KT in LP.
Flop ($20) KT3. MP bets $60. WTF? I call HU
Turn ($140) 4. MP shoves $175. WTF? I call. He has K9.. LOL

9) Very next hand. Same guy rebuys $100 and open to $20. I shove with AK. He calls 88 and he wins.

10) Couple limps. I overlimp 44 in LP. 6 to the flop
Flop ($12) Q43 rainbow. BB just sat down with $300. This is her first hand. She bets $11. UTG calls. I raise to $35. BB instacalls. UTG folds.
Turn ($93). Q. BB string bets two $50 stacks. I stay quiet but a different player points it out to the dealer who didnt notice. Dealer forces her to take back $50. I call the $50
River ($193) 8. She string bets two $50 stacks again. This time the dealer sees it and pushes $50 back to her. She has $165ish behind. I shove. She instacalls with AQ.

11) Button straddle. Couple limps. I make it $25 AsKc and get 3 calls.
Flop ($105) AcJsTs. They check to me. I really kind of hate this flop. I could easily be crushed but theres a FD ad the pot is big already. The biggest stack in the hand has $150 left. I decide to check. With my image I could probably shove here and get called by any number of FDs, basically any 2 broadway cards and other things. I kinda hate this hand.
Turn ($105) 6d. EP bets $35. He's the $150 stack. I say "YOLO" and shove. He calls JT and he holds up. Meh

12) MP limp. I raise to $15 AsKs. MP and BB call
Flop ($45) TsTc6s. MP leads $30. I call HU.
Turn ($105) 4s. He bets $75. I shove. He calls off another $50 with JsJc. I win.

Id say overall I ran very hot with lots of premiums and good flops. I did also have several big flops like TP and FD and and lost medium pots. I had lots of other crazy LAG hands that I cant even remember but overall Id say I played very very well except for hands #11 and the river call in hand #7
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:27 AM   #65
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

I guess this qualifies as a brag. I counted 9 dealers in a row who sat down and said "This is 1/2?" I was in seat 1 and said "yep" every time.

Each and every dealer said some form of "But this is normally a 2/5 table....and you play 2/5.....and that stack is ridiculous".

There was also 6-8 players during my session who walked up to take their seat and said "1/2 or 2/5?" There were some other big stacks at the table as the action was nuts for about 2 hours. At one point there were 2 other 2/5 regs sitting. They saw my stack and came to join in on the fun.

Clearly I cant do this every time, but I think Ill play a few more 1/2 sessions and see what happens. I crushed 1/2 for $44/hr during a prop bet in Dec so who knows. Being a reg who plays 90% 2/5 and 10% 5/10....players walked by me and gave me a WTF? look constantly. Four or five 2/5 regs actually walked up to me and asked what was going on, but I dont give a rats ass what they think. If the action and profit is this good at 1/2...Ill keep playing it.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:56 PM   #66
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

I really don't know how people pay you off. That is a mystery to me.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:39 PM   #67
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

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I really don't know how people pay you off. That is a mystery to me.
Image is everything.
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Old 06-11-2017, 10:41 PM   #68
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Congrats on the run good! I have to admit I'm jealous. I've yet to have a genuine "heater" though I had one night where I ran good for a few hours. I have some questions about why you played some of these hands a particular way. Hope you don't mind answering!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
1) 2 limps. I raise to $15 Jh9h. UTG calls. UTG+1 shoves to $27. I call. UTG calls.
Flop ($84) 8h7d5c. She checks. I shove. She folds. UTG+1 has QhTh
Turn A
River T
I win
Why did you shove the flop with a gutshot + weak overs? Aren't you deep-stacked? If UTG+1 is shallowish I could see shoving here.

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2) I limp Td9d in EP. 2 more limps. BB raises to $12. I call. One more call.
Flop ($49) 8d7c2d. BB bets $20. I shove. Folds to him and he calls off $130 with KdKh.
Turn 7h
River Qd
I win.
Why did you call pre-flop? Isn't limp/calling Td9d kind of bad since BB is only ~75 BB deep?

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3) I open in MP to $10 Tc8c. Only SB calls.
Flop ($22) AcJc8h. He check/calls $25.
Turn ($72) Jd. X/X
River ($72) Some brick and he leads out for like $40. I fold
What kind of hand do you think villain has on river? I'm wondering if he would fold to a minraise given he checked the second Jack. If he has an Ace the play is weirdly passive.

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5) Button straddle $5 Same EP as hand #4 limps. I limp Tc7c in LP. 5 to the flop
Flop ($28) Qc5c9h. EP bets $19. I raise to $40. He calls HU
Turn ($108) 8h. He checks. I thought about betting big here but after showing my previous hand I decided to check and take the free card.
River ($108) Js. He checks. I bet $65. He tank/folds
Why not fold this given the straddle? Unless button is 300BB+ or a horrific post-flop player it seems like a fold. Of course horrific post-flop player is probably a given.

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8) 3 limps. I make it $17 KsKc. 3 calls.
Flop ($72) 9c6c6s. They check to me. I bet $50. SB crai to $85. MP calls. I call
Turn ($327) 4d. MP checks. I shove. He calls off $130.
River ($587) Tc. I show and they both muck.
If you bet $50 how he can check-raise to $85? I'd be really worried about a random 6 with the check-raise from the SB. It was raised pre-flop but I still run into stuff like A6o and K6o pretty often. I actually played a hand almost exactly like this recently where I had AA and got stacked to 93o on J33, lol.

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9) Very next hand. Same guy rebuys $100 and open to $20. I shove with AK. He calls 88 and he wins.
How deep were the other stacks here? I could see shoving if nobody yet to act is super deep.

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11) Button straddle. Couple limps. I make it $25 AsKc and get 3 calls.
Flop ($105) AcJsTs. They check to me. I really kind of hate this flop. I could easily be crushed but theres a FD ad the pot is big already. The biggest stack in the hand has $150 left. I decide to check. With my image I could probably shove here and get called by any number of FDs, basically any 2 broadway cards and other things. I kinda hate this hand.
Turn ($105) 6d. EP bets $35. He's the $150 stack. I say "YOLO" and shove. He calls JT and he holds up. Meh
I agree this is a bad flop for you, but checking seems worse than betting. Given players limped the only hand likely to crush you is JT. AA, JJ, TT, AJ, AT, and KQ are all likely to be bet pre-flop, I would think.
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Old 06-11-2017, 11:13 PM   #69
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

1) She only had had like $50 left
2) Maybe a loose call, but I had position and a skill advantage. Most 1/2 players wont raise without a premium hand especially OOP and a good percentage of them telegraph their hand with their Cbet sizing (or no Cbet at all). If he makes it obvious he has AK with his Cbet sizing I will take the pot away from him if there is no A or K on the flop. With this perfect flop for me, its an easy shove.
3) How is he playing an ace weirdly passive? Everybody check/calls the flop with an ace there and then checks the turn. On the river hes got an ace or a Jack almost every time. Very few 1/2 players will bluff a missed FD like that on the river. This particular player was very ABC. In an earlier hand I called his preflop raise from the blind with KQ. He made a weak Cbet on a rag flop (something like 854), I floated him OOP and then led out on a J turn and he instafolded.
5) This guy was straddling the button every orbit and hadnt raised his straddle yet so I had no reason to think he would raise this time. Why not overlimp in the cutoff? If there hadnt been a straddle I would raise here about half the time, but I dont like it with a straddle. We aren't deep enough for the size of the raise I would have to make. You dont need to be 300BBs deep to limp a speculative hand in position.
8) "crai" stands for "Check raise all in". The SB check raised all in to $85.
9) Nobody yet to act had more than $150 or so. By making it $100, its basically the same thing as me going all in.
11) Yeah, the whole hand is kinda gross. Other than my preflop raise.

Last edited by MikeStarr; 06-11-2017 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 06-12-2017, 12:47 AM   #70
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

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1) She only had had like $50 left
2) Maybe a loose call, but I had position and a skill advantage. Most 1/2 players wont raise without a premium hand especially OOP and a good percentage of them telegraph their hand with their Cbet sizing (or no Cbet at all). If he makes it obvious he has AK with his Cbet sizing I will take the pot away from him if there is no A or K on the flop. With this perfect flop for me, its an easy shove.
3) How is he playing an ace weirdly passive? Everybody check/calls the flop with an ace there and then checks the turn. On the river hes got an ace or a Jack almost every time. Very few 1/2 players will bluff a missed FD like that on the river. This particular player was very ABC. In an earlier hand I called his preflop raise from the blind with KQ. He made a weak Cbet on a rag flop (something like 854), I floated him OOP and then led out on a J turn and he instafolded.
5) This guy was straddling the button every orbit and hadnt raised his straddle yet so I had no reason to think he would raise this time. Why not overlimp in the cutoff? If there hadnt been a straddle I would raise here about half the time, but I dont like it with a straddle. We aren't deep enough for the size of the raise I would have to make. You dont need to be 300BBs deep to limp a speculative hand in position.
8) "crai" stands for "Check raise all in". The SB check raised all in to $85.
9) Nobody yet to act had more than $150 or so. By making it $100, its basically the same thing as me going all in.
11) Yeah, the whole hand is kinda gross. Other than my preflop raise.
Thanks for the clarifications/explanations. A couple follow up points:

3) You have more experience than I do of course but usually people with top pair want to protect their hand on a board with a flush draw plus multiple straight draws, which is why I think an A would be oddly played here (though still very possible). I can't see him checking a Jack on the turn here unless he's one of those guys that just loves to slowplay even when it makes no sense. A weirdly played Ace-rag makes the most sense if villain is incapable of bluffing.

5) You're OOP with T7 in a straddled pot. As I understand it, straddling effectively changes the 1/2 game to 1/2/4, halving the effective stack sizes. So if normally you'd need villains to be 200BB deep to play this hand (for example), then straddled you would need them 400BB deep. I figure non-straddled you'd want at least 150BB deep which is why I came up with 300BB. Folding vs. limping is probably marginal here but I fold unless there's at least one deep stack. Agreed you don't want to raise given the straddle.

11) I think shoving the flop is much better than checking, but betting 60-80 with the intention of shoving any turn is also good. SPR is like 1.5 so you have to get it in with TPTK IMO, even though board is gross. I think you'll get called by JT, KQ, AJ, AT, but you'll also get called by some hands you're ahead like Ace-rag, AQ, KT, KJ, particularly if they're spades. Might also get called by some flush draws, particularly combo draws like 98ss or 87ss. I don't expect anyone to have TT+ as they probably 3-bet (except maybe TT). But basically with the SPR this low I'm always getting it in if we hit.

Oh yeah, YOLO = ??

Last edited by Shai Hulud; 06-12-2017 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:30 AM   #71
MikeStarr
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

3) If you were the preflop raiser and had AK, would you bet this turn after villain checked to you? Villain's most like hands are a weaker ace, a J, or a FD. I would say most people are betting AK again....and thats exactly why most players, who are passive by nature, are going to check a J on the turn. They want to get another bet out of you if you have an ace or more importantly they want another bet out of aggro players like myself when we have nothing at all. If he bets the turn wth a J, I will fold a large portion of my range.

5) As I said in my original "background" post, Ive never read a poker book in my life. A lot of the things that I know are taught in poker books, I know from reading here. A lot of these same concepts come up over and over so I know people are reading them in books. A lot of people toss these concept around like they are gospel because they read it in a book. My poker knowledge comes from experience on the felt. From being in these situations again and again. Experience is the best teacher. Having said all of that, I dont believe for one minute that you need to be 200BB deep to play T7s in very LP if you play well post flop.
11) Part of your analysis is good, and like I said already, Im not crazy about the way I played the hand. Its a tough flop..but...just keep an open mind. I hate the flop. If I check and a spade comes and I give up I don't think its the end of the world. If I check and the turn is a brick which is what happened...and then someone bets and I shove....I get called by the hands you listed but I also have a much better chance of getting called by a weak ace who is going to have a hard time believing I have a good ace and checked the flop. So there are 2 benefits to checking the flop and also some negatives to it. NO matter what its not an easy hand.

Also, you have much more online experience than live experience. They are almost like 2 different games. If you expect people to 3 bet TT/JJ preflop at 1/2 you are going to be ranging people incorrectly all the time. Some people will, but its much rarer than it should be. In 12 hours of this 1/2 session (not counting my own 3 bets), there were two 3 bets in total. One of them was a 3 bet of me. As much as I was raising I shouldve been 3 bet about 20 times.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:44 AM   #72
MikeStarr
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Crazy story from a couple weeks ago.

There's a guy playing like a lunatic. Ill call him Hank. Blind raising, making monster overshoves...you know the type. He straddles the button to $10. Both blinds limp. UTG+1 raises to $40. It folds to Hank who 3 bets to $130. It folds back to UTG+1 who shoves for $450. Hank says "I call....but I only have 1 card"

The dealer forgot to deal Hank his last card. They agree to show their cards. UTG+1 shows As5s. Hand shows the Qh. The dealer tosses Hank his second card and its the Ad. Hank's AQ busts the A5s. Gotta love it!
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:39 PM   #73
Shai Hulud
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Crazy story from a couple weeks ago.

There's a guy playing like a lunatic. Ill call him Hank. Blind raising, making monster overshoves...you know the type. He straddles the button to $10. Both blinds limp. UTG+1 raises to $40. It folds to Hank who 3 bets to $130. It folds back to UTG+1 who shoves for $450. Hank says "I call....but I only have 1 card"

The dealer forgot to deal Hank his last card. They agree to show their cards. UTG+1 shows As5s. Hand shows the Qh. The dealer tosses Hank his second card and its the Ad. Hank's AQ busts the A5s. Gotta love it!
That's crazy . I'd be mad if I were UTG+1. Then again Hank would have won decently often with like a 6 also. Just a weird way of variance rearing its ugly head. I didn't know you could play hands with 1 card. So far every time that's happened with me there's been a re-deal. But I've only encountered one or two genuine lunatics so far.

Interesting way to look at #3. I wasn't really thinking about how your opponent would see your hand, as I figured they're not thinking about it, but that's probably not true. Even fish will have some idea of your hand range, even if not particularly accurate. I think when I was looking at it earlier I thought the fish had position for some reason and was thinking he checked behind on the turn, but I reread it and that's wrong. I can see him checking a J if he expects you to bet, definitely.

Regarding #5, the straddled hand, I have actually read that straddles halve the effective stacks, but mostly I've noticed this from playing. I switch up my range to hands more like K9o rather than T7cc if it's straddled (unless players are very deep). If someone straddles, and I raise OTB to $30, get two callers, the SPR is likely 2-3, in which case I'm getting it in if I make TP. You basically expect the SPR to be about half what it normally is so hands that make TPWK go up in value a lot compared to hands trying to make a straight or flush. Then again, suited connectors in particular are very playable with short stacks, mostly because they make great bluffing hands. If you flop any kind of equity (as little as BDFD+BDSD) it's a great C-bet since if you get called you'll often improve to a straight draw and/or flush draw and can fire again. IMO they're tricky with medium stacks but if you have a large skill advantage then it's probably worth it.

And regarding #11, even though you've been playing LAG all night you think you won't get 3-bet JJ+?? I mean it sounds like this table was super passive if you saw only two 3-bets, but do you think it was an unusual table or it's typical for them to flat JJ+ against a LAG?

But you're right I'm going mostly off online experience and books. I know this doesn't translate directly to live play, which is why I appreciate your explanations regarding these hands. I'm not trying to say you played them badly or anything like that.

Last edited by Shai Hulud; 06-12-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:10 PM   #74
MikeStarr
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Hank was the button and every once in a while the dealer will forget to deal the very last card which goes to the button. Any sane person asks for his second card before acting, but his hand is not technically dead.

#5 hand....A straddle only cuts effective stacks in half if someone who wouldve normally opened to $15, now opens to $30 because of the straddle. I would say at least 75% of 2/5 players and below dont understand the concept and a good many of them still open to their normal raise amount. At that point the entire "effective stack are cut in half" argument is moot. In this case since its a limped pot, technically effective stacks are smaller since everyone limped for $5 instead of $2, but if someone opened to $5 in EP and got a few callers, I would still call a lot of the time with T7s in the cutoff. Its still a tiny amount considering there are a few huge stacks and several other 100-150BB stacks at the table and I have position and a skill advantage.

(K9 is a sucker hand. I almost never play it)

SPR is another overused concept. Just because you have TP and a SPR of 2-3, that doesnt give you license to stack off. Flop texture is still important and even more important is reads on the players. What will they stack off with?

IMO, reads are much more important in most situations than the math of "I have TP and SPR of only 2.8...woohooo! I'm geting it in!"

As far as people flatting JJ against a LAG, what can I say? People suck at poker. The lower stakes you go, the more people there are who are afraid to 3 bet without AA/KK. I cant count the number of times Ive raised things like 65s or T8s and stacked hands like KK at 2/5 when they didnt 3 bet me preflop.
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:15 PM   #75
MikeStarr
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Re: Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

Got to the poker room early today and there was only one 2/5 game running so I jumped into a 1/2 again. 5 hours later I left up $539. I didnt even win any big pots. I just didnt lose any and chipped up all day long.

My favorite WTF hand of the day?

I open to $7 in EP with 6d5d. I never open this small and I normally dont open SCs in EP but the table was soft so what the hell. I got 3 calls.

Flop ($30) 8d3c2c. Checks around
Turn ($30) 6c. Checked to me. I bet $15. LP calls HU
River ($60) Th. I shouldnt be good here very often but I also didnt want to get bluffed if I checked the river and he has the balls to bet like $45 with the bare Ac....so I threw out a $15 blocking bet. He calls and mucks. No idea what he had. 44? 64?
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