Road Trip update:

As Im sitting here wondering how much of out trip anyone cares about Im amazed at how little I remember of where we went. It was a long trip and its been a couple weeks since we've been back but am is my memory really fading that badly? Im going to blame it on alcohol. We consumed a fair amount on the trip.

This trip was mostly a vacation but luckily for me, my wife is very understanding and is perfectly OK with me fitting in some poker along the way. We met up in Hartford and headed south towards Foxwoods. You have to play at Foxwoods if you're in the area, right? The place is gigantic. My wife had no problem spending a few hours walking around, window shopping, having a glass of wine and just chilling while I played.

The poker room decor was outdated but who cares? Im at Foxwoods. I remember back in the day before there was a poker room on every corner, that Foxwood's was pretty well known and it seemed to me that it had a great reputation. I think they need to spend some money and spruce the place up, spend money on monitors for the Bravo waiting lists, TVs spread around and things like that, but at least I was at Foxwoods.

I played 4 hours and won a grand total of $3 but I had a good time. Its pretty clear the place is no longer the mecca of poker like it seemed like it was 10-15 years ago. Maybe it was never the mecca of poker but it seemed that way to me at the time.

I had 2 interesting hands from today. Maybe they arent that interesting but they were big pots.

1) 2 EP limps. I raise to $15 9c7c. They both call.
Flop ($45) Th8h4c. They check to me and I bet $20. The second limper calls.
Turn ($85) Ks. He checks. We have another $135 effective. This is where I differ from most 2+2ers. I almost always check behind here. Sure the K is a scare card which is why most aggressive good players say you should bet, but I just disagree in principal. I think most players call too much. I know they call ME too much. I will get called here by lots of made hands and once in a while the villain is just waiting to rip my head off with a check raise all in. Ive busted a lot of people raising hands like this in position and hitting my draw on the river vs their set or 2 pair that they were looking to check raise the LAG with.

Of course this wouldnt be as interesting if I had actually checked behind....I bet $65 this time and the villain check raised me all in. F me!

I need just under 20% equity to call and I have about 18%. Its a stupid spot. Avoiding spots like this is how I keep my variance down while still winning at a pretty good clip. I decided to make the call even though its slightly -EV because there is a lot of value in not only having a big stack but also being seen showing this hand down. The river was another 8 and villain had K8. The K isnt always a scare card. I guess a math guy can figure out how often he has to fold this turn to make the bet a good one. My personal opinion based on tons of hands where I raise a speculative hand in position and flop a draw, is that its better to check behind on the turn. I would rather bet this turn if I had no equity.

2) I reload to $200. This hand is about 3-4 hands later.
I open in EP to $10 JhTh. I get 2 calls and then this same villain who just stacked me 3 bets to $30 from the SB. I call and both other guys call also.

Hero $200
SB covers
MP $170
MP2 $175-$200

Flop ($120) QdTd9h. SB checks. Im putting the SB squarely on AA/KK. He has to absolutely hate this flop especially 4 ways. My stack size is kind of awkward so I just shoved it all in.

Both MPs tanked and both folded. The SB asked me "do you want your money back?" I said "Of course I want it back". He tanked for about a minute and said "I think you have QJ" and he called. Pretty good read on his part. He showed AA. I rivered an 8.

Im definitely running better although I was card dead the rest of the day and ended up breaking even after 4 hours.

great stuff

i assume "sub" means "subscribe to feeds from this thread"?

how does one do that?

You just did

mindblow.jpg

How do you know he did?

When you post in a thread and then go back and look at the list of threads you see a check mark in the threads that you have posted in. That's what they mean by "sub" right? You know you have subscribed and you are interested in that thread specifically when you see the check mark. At least thats what I do.

I was wondering how Avarita knew that Nozsr had suscribed.

Because Nozsr asked in this thread how to subscribe and the mere posting of anything in this thread, including his question, is what made him subscribe. Now when he goes to the list of PGCs he will see a check mark by this one.

I got into an very long text discussion/debate with a friend of mine yesterday. It started when he sent me a HH played by an acquaintance of mine who is a very good friend of his. This guy is literally one of the best players in the country. He plays the biggest games played anywhere. The hand was from a tournament and went like this.

Blinds are 150/300
MP opens to 700
Button calls
Superstar player defends the BB with KcJc

Flop AcAh5d. BB checks. MP bets 650. Button folds BB calls.
Turn 7c. Check/check
River 3c. BB bets 1000. MP raises to 2500. BB reraises. Not sure of the amount. MP calls and mucks.

Now the BB is the superstar player and I can confirm that this guy is an absolute beast. Hes won more money than you can imagine in the past couple years. He plays 100/200 NL, massive stakes mixed games, 50/100 PLO and games even bigger at times. Hes won tournies with $100,000 buy ins.

Maybe Im not qualified to critique this HH but to me is totally jacked. Floating OOP is never a good idea. The villain obviously had a big ace or he could never call a river reraise. If I had a big ace here, Im betting the turn so what was heros plan if vilain bets the turn? A big check raise? If he check raises me on the turn Im shoving (not sure what stack sizes were). The fact is that hero floated OOP and caught a miracle runner runner flush against a donk who had a big ace and tried to get cute.

This HH led to our debate about playing cash games. My friend insists that we fold to often, dont defend the blinds often enough...ect. He started quoted articles that talk about calling raises from the blinds and continuing with bottom pair.

The exact example given was calling a 3x button raise from the BB with 75s. The article goes on to show that its correct to call a flop bet with bottom pair because you have X amount of equity vs a button raisers range.

I can guarantee you that my friend is about to go on a losing streak.

This is a different example but heres what happens when you call with bottom pair. This is a hand from yesterday.

You are villain and overlimp A5s in MP. We go 5 to the flop of 9s7c5h. I bet $10 into a $10 pot from EP. You call with your bottom pair and we are HU.

Turn ($30) 5d. I bet $20 and you raise to $60. Im going to fold most everything. You will win $40 in total. You risked $10 on the flop to win that $40. So you got 4:1 on your money, but you hit a 5 outter which was 10:1 against on the turn. Thats a losing call already.

BUT...heres what really happened. I shoved on him and he called. I had 77 and he lost his stack. So hes going to get crushed now and then when he hits but even when he wins, hes not making enough money to justify the call in the first place. Theres only 2 ways he can make this profitable.

1) he bluff raises the turn when the bottom card pairs and he doesnt really have it...and very very few people do that.
2) Hes playing a bad player.

There was a lot of other garbage quoted in the article he sent me, but Ill talk about that another time. I told him to print the article out and stick it up 'all over our poker room so we never have to complain about lack of action again. Thats how the discussion ended.

A) I pretty much agree with you that the KJ hand is a disaster, and I like your attitude about it. But even the best poker players make mistakes pretty regularly; also one attribute of good poker players is that they are capable of ferociously following their intuition, so sometimes a good player can think he has a sharp read on someone and adjust their line accordingly, only to "run bad" and be wrong and then look like an idiot, even though long term their conviction is going to increase their winrate.

B) Most "superstar" poker players have far less money than you think. Rake, travel expenses, taxes, downswings, inflation, spewy purchases, and poor wealth management eat away at most of the "superstars" I have met. (I've been around dozens for years.)

KcJc seems standard

If prefer it in position but yeah I don't think it's some horrendous float


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There are rather significant differences between a low stakes cash game going 5 ways to the flop and a high stakes tournament player defending the BB heads up (or 3-way). In the tournament situation, if the PFR is any good, you have to defend pretty wide and call the flop with a lot of hands on a board like AA5 to make the PFR indifferent to bluffing ATC. In multiway pots the obligation to "defend" in order to prevent profitable C-bets with ATC is split up among all the players. So you don't need much to defend heads up, not a ton 3-way particularly if the second player will give easily, but by the time you get to typical low stakes cash game situations and it's 5 ways or 6 ways, you need a much stronger hand to continue.

So x/c with KJcc is standard heads up or 3-way against a competent tournament player on AA5, but would probably be a disaster 5 ways to the flop because it's much more likely someone has a real hand.

Based on the hand history, it seems far more likely that villain had a straight or a flush than an Ace. Ya'll keep referring to this as a float. It does not look like a float whatsoever to me.

Yeah KJ is very standard imo

In position I have no problem with it. OOP, I think its pretty bad. Id still like to know what the guy was going to do if the villain bet the turn.

yeah if you fold the KJcc to this sizing you are making a mistake

What do you mean lol, depends on the turn card?

I had some crazy action at my 1/2 table this evening. Honestly Ive never seen this much action. Here are a few of the big hands

1) Button straddles $5. SB calls. BB calls. EP accidentally raises to $10. He tried to grab a red chip back but it was too late. He gets 3 calls. Im in the HJ with QQ. Im about to jack it up to about $70 when the button shoves all in out of turn for $77. I call the $10.

SB ($240) calls the $77.
EP...the guy who min raised by accident ($200) calls the $77.
MP ($215) calls the $77
I shove $500.
SB and MP both call.

Theres about $970 total in the pot. 4 guys are all in. There are 2 side pots.

Board runs out 76T47.
SB had ATs
MP had 76s
Button didnt show.

I lost about $140 I think...but I had 1 **** ton of equity.

2) I limp TT UTG...couple more limps. The SB ($800) raises to $20. Hes the guy who won the huge pot with 76s. I call with $400 to start the hand. We go HU

Flop ($48) Tc9c6h. SB bets $25. I raise to $80. He calls.
Turn ($208) 4d. He checks. I bet $150. He calls.
River ($508) 7c. He checks. I shove my last $150. He calls with AA and I win a 400BB pot.

3) Button straddles. I call with AA in the SB. BB calls. MP raises to $15. Button calls. I 3 bet to $75. BB shoves $200 and I call HU. He has KK and I win.

4) 5 way limped pot. I have 77 in EP.

Flop ($10) Jh7s6s. Checked to LP who bets $5. MP calls. I cr to $25. LP calls HU
Turn ($65) Th. I bet $45. He shoves $150. Obviously Im worried about 98 but Im nto folding this especially to this guy who is a loose cannon. I call. He has 98 and the board gives me no love on the river.

5) Button straddles $5. 2 limps. Button raises to $15. I 3 bet to $50 AA in the SB. Button calls.
Flop ($110) QcTc4s. Button shoves $125 out of turn. I check making his bet binding and then I call. He has KQ and my hand holds up.

6) MP opens to $7. I 3 bet to $25 AK. He calls.

Flop ($50) A43 rainbow. He checks. I check back.
Turn ($50) 2. He shoves $70. I call and beat his TT.

There were tons of other huge pots that I wasnt involved in. It was pure insanity.

Well the turn card is listed in the HH I posted. It was the 7c. I want to know what our hero was going to do after checking the turn if villain bet. Was he going to check raise?

It’s pretty obvious OP is not familiar with a lot of these concepts and is using typical live player intuition and player pool tendencies to play winning poker which is fine for the live cash micros. Where players just generally play horribly face up.

This strategy won’t be very good past 2/5nl. And even at 2/5 150bb-uncapped games you can run into some tables where even the “fish” will not let you easily off the hook in a lot of the spots you’re used to.

Obv the KJ is fine. And clearly the overlimp with A5s 5 ways post flop is much different than defending 75s in the bb vs btn raise and a flop cbet heads up. OP using these situations for some sort of hypothetical results oriented comparison just demonstrates his skill level honestly.

This is not to say that your buddy will apply the concepts he’s learned properly either. So you’re right he may go broke or downswing soon misapplying these concepts as many live players do.

Big fan of your thread buddy good luck and hope you continue doing well.

I dont play tournaments so maybe Im just a moron, but if you try to float a good player OOP with K high and a back door flush draw on an Ace paired board in a cash game you're going to get destroyed. There is no way that can do done profitably.

Thanks for your condescending remarks. They are much appreciated.

isn't it intuitive that you should defend a flop c-bet HU with bottom pair when you defended your bigblind and not if the pot is 5 way though?

also what would you call a flop bet with on AA5r when you defend your BB if you don't defend KJs with bdfd?

also you do realize that the flop sizing was about 25% of the pot right?

Youre talking about 2 different hands with these questions.

Why are we "defending" our BB with 75s in a cash game in the first place? If the button is raising super light I would 3 bet with it, but calling OOP with it is bad. Putting yourself in situations where you need to call with bottom pair OOP is a recipe for leaking money left and right.

Id much rather have a pair than K high on the AA5 board.

well you are way overfolding, and we defend 75s because it's losing less than the 1 bigblind we would lose by folding it, we also can't always 3bet it because we would most likely be 3bet bluffing way too much