Nice to meet you as well, Mike. I know we've had our differences but it's always good to put a SN with a face. Hope to meet you again in Tampa or on the east coast when I make it over.

The disorganization/chaos/poor lighting (agree with all of your assessment) is something we put up with to have great games. Sucks about your 2nd table. The table I was on was off the hook action but I was card dead so no manies for me.

5T has been running regularly, even during the week. Smoking isn't an issue, the room is away from the main casino. You may have had a bad sample of tightness - generally the action is very very good at THR. New promo this month - $500 for 50 hours. Games have been good to outstanding IMO.

Smoking in the main casino is allowed but not in the poker room.

I will back my friends claim. I have met a handful of players who can actually think beyond ABC poker. Mike does and understands his live field as well as I understand my online field.

He has a different style than I do. We discuss things and disagree more times than I disagree with any deep thinking player I know.

But what I took from our disagreement is to find out why his way works and how I can incorporate it into my game. And in that process of discovery and testing I realized tactics that opened up new plays for me.

So you shouldn't be berating him for different style. You should validate or disprove his claim via experiment and testing much as scientists do.

I do very well online but do meh at live 2/5 with a 3 year winrate is $18 an hour. I played with Mike and his style works live. I have seen the results. Frankly I have never seen him make a clear mistake during a hand. He calls when he should, he folds when he should with regards to decision making skills with information at hand. We all get duped from time to time and make the wrong fold.

I know quite a few TAGs in the local area. They have predictable patterns, glaring exploitable holes, huge tells, and think at best level 2. Mike is not one of these players. He plays incredibly well even if it is different than how I play.

So I learned new tricks from him. I hope he learned some from me.

DCFT, we'll just have to agree to disagree for now.

I logged several hundred hours at tampa from 13-16 playing part time, and it was always just a night and day comparison to daytona or sfla (besides isle). And even back then i was always hearing how amazing it was.

Id argue it likely has to highest amount of not-bad regs of any casino in FL. As well as a few good players, which again, is pretty rare in most other rooms. Just quite a few college kids there that know what they are doing, and collective table vpip is lower on average ime.

Again, its all about perspective. I remember squid doing a tr of sfla and talking about how crazy isle was, and i was like LOL. But yea compared to vegas im sure isle is great.

So Im not saying its not good, just comparison-wise, it was my #4 or 5 place in terms of action. Havent been since the re-model though so might come give it a try when i have a free weekend.

That's an interesting perspective. I don't have much experience outside of THR so maybe I'm better off making a weekend run to the east coast to play. My dad has a condo in WPB so maybe I'll go visit and play a couple of rooms to see the difference.

I do recall the one time I played PBKC $2/5 on, like, a Wednesday early afternoon and recalling the game was off the charts good lol. Like, I'd claw my way into a game like that at THR if I could.

The action at PBKC is really good. It doesnt matter what time of day either. Even before noon on a weekday its pretty good.

I got in another very short session at Tampa HR yesterday when we had some time to kill before dinner reservations nearby. I played 1 1/2 hours and lost $600. In total, I played 4 hrs here and lost $700. I won a total of 2 hands (not counting raising preflop and taking it down with no flop). Obviously I ran bad. I had 1 crucial hand that I want to make a point about.

EP limps. I raise to $25 in the HJ with 8s6s. Cutoff fish, BB and EP call. My reads are pretty weak since I havent been here long. The BB just sat down.

Flop ($100) 7c5c2d. Checked to me. I bet $60. They ALL call. WTF?
Turn ($340) Th. Checked to me again. It seems like someone wouldve raised if they had a big hand. since there's a FD on the flop. I assume at least 1 has the FD. Maybe one has 88/99? I didnt top off since Im leaving shortly. I have $350 left. I say F'It and shove all in. My standard play here would be to check back. Of course being last to act is a huge advantage to check back. Anyway, I shove and the cutoff called with 22 and rivered quads.

This brings me to the point I want to make. Ive been tracking what I call "mixing it up" for the last 127 hours of play. "Mixing it up" means spots where I deviate from my standard play like shoving the turn here instead of checking. It includes things like calling a raise with 77 and then floating the flop on a Q94 flop when I could take the standard easy way and just fold. Basically it tracks trying to outplay people in certain spots where you can easily just make a low variance nitty fold.

So is it best to try to "outplay" people or to just outplay them by pounding them with monster hands and folding most of the rest of the time even if they are exploiting you sometimes?

So far in these 127 hours, my win rate is $56.66/hr. Ive lost $1085 "mixing it up". However, I had $915 in lost EV in 3-4 big all in hands like the 86s hand where I mixed up up and lost all of those all in. I lost $190 in EV in the 86s hand because I had 18% equity and won 0% of that pot. If I got all of my equity in those all in hands, I wouldve lost $170 in these hands Im tracking or about $1.35/hr.

In the 86s hand, I didnt include the $25 preflop or the $60 CBet as lost money because that IS standard for me. I only included the $350 all in as lost money because I would normally slow down there and check.

My gut feeling tells me that my standard strategy (which is not by any means standard for most people) is more profitable long term than mixing it up is.

So
Actual win rate over these 127 hrs....$56.66/hr
Win rate w/o mixing it up.................$65/hr
Adjusted win rate including lost EV.....$58/hr

Using the adjusted win rate helps shorten the time it takes to get a true win rate because losing several big all ins takes a long time to recover from in terms of your win rate which is the reason I track it. If I had rivered a 4 or 9 in the 86s hand, I wouldve won the $1040 pot and my numbers would be drastically different. If I wast tracking the adjusted win rate, it would look like "mixing it up" is much more profitable than it really is.

I'm not sure I completely get what you are saying but checking turn with 68 is completely standard there. While I appreciate you are trying to mix it up, jamming 4 ways is not good there at all. Prob want to tighten up the"mix up" strat


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That was my point. I would normally check the turn there. Since I deviated from my standard strategy Im keeping track to see how mixing it up works out over the medium term. My results so far are mediocre but if you include the lost EV the results are negative but not terrible at this point.

My overall point is that I dont think you have to mix it up to win and win big. You dont have to 3 bet lite. You dont have to float flops with mid pairs..ect. Im just testing it here and there.

For example, there was a hand where MP limped. The young aggro cutoff raised to $25. I made it $75 with 65s OTB. Clearly the standard play here is to fold, but I won $35 extra by mixing it up. Im just tracking all of this to see what it looks like after 500 hour or so.

That seems like a bad spot to "mix it up". I wouldn't have been all that surprised if you told me you got called by a Jack High flush draw and the river bricked and you lost to Jack High.

It is a bad spot to mix it up vs unknowns but you know what? We all brain fart every once in a while.

So Im back in S. Florida. Tampa HR didnt treat me too well, but I got to watch the Rangers beat the Tampa Bay Rays 4-3 and 6-5 on Sat and Sunday so all wasn't lost.

Some hands from today.

1) 3 limps. I make it $30 OTB with KdQd. The BB and all 3 limpers call.
Flop ($150) Kc4c7h. They all check to me. I bet $100. BB folds. UTG check raises to $225. UTG+1 shoves $285 and it folds back to me. Pretty easy fold in my book.

UTG had Qc9c
UTG+1 had 8c6c and the flush hit the turn.

2) UTG limps. MP limps. I make it $35 JJ BB. They both call. A friend of mine was standing behind me and said "let me sweat you" so I lifted my cards so he could see. Everytime this guy stands behind me I win.
Flop ($105) Jd4h2h. I check. UTG checks. MP shoves all in. WTF? I have $420 and he covers me. Obviously I called. UTG folded.

A few hands later MP, who is normally a decent player told me he was very embarrassed and it was the stupidest thing he had done in a long time. He said he had a J and hinted that he had a bad kicker. I have no idea why he would shove there but Im thankful.

3) 3 limps. I raise to $35 AdAh OTB. 1 aggro limper calls from UTG and 1 75ish limper calls from the HJ. Hes fairly tight/solid.

Flop ($115) KdTd5d. UTG checks. HJ bets $45. I call as does UTG.
Turn ($250) 9s. They check. UTG has $500. HJ has $300. I cover. Honestly Im not sure what the best play here is. I can find arguments to bet and to check. I was a little worried about UTG having QJ so I checked back.
River ($250) 9c. They both checked again. I bet $110 and they both folded.

4) 1 limp. I raise to $25 JJ. An unknown lady with a tiny dog in a basket on her lap calls HU.
Flop ($60) KcKd4c. I check..she checks.
Turn ($60) Ts. I bet $25. She raises to $80. Meh....I fold

I bet/folded a couple times in limped pots where I had TP weak kicker or some other garbage

5) EP limps. I raise to $25 AhKd. Aggro player calls from the BB and the limper folds.
Flop ($55) As8c7h. X/X
Turn ($55) 2h. He leads $55. I call
River ($165) 9d. He bets $90. I call and beat his 5h3h. I like to check the flop back with TP sometimes to give guys like this some rope to do what they do.

6) EP and HJ limp. I raise to $30 AcQh in the cutoff. They both call.

Flop ($95) AhQd3s. They check. I bet $50. EP limper check raises to $150. This is the same guy who spazzed in hand #2. HJ folded and its to me. We started the hand at around $900 effective. Im almost certain he has A3 or 33. I call.

Turn ($395) Kc. He checks. Clearly I have to discount 33 now and lean towards putting him on A3. However, from his point of view, I should have AK/AQ here almost always. He should be expecting me to bet so its possible hes going for a double check raise with 33. If I do bet will he still call with A3? I honestly have no idea so I decided to check back.

River ($395) 6d. He checks. OK, now Im 90% sure he has A3. I bet $150 and he made a crying call and showed the A3 after I tabled my hand. Maybe I make more by betting the turn. Maybe he calls $150 on the turn and folds the river anyway. I dont know.

7) MP limps. I raise to $25 9h7h. A whale in the BB calls HU
Flop ($55) QhJd4s. He checks. I bet $30 and he folds 77 face up.

I played 3 1/2 hrs and won $815

Looks like you miss a lot of value in this hand. No one in live poker is checking this turn after raising flop only to check fold. They're going to xc at least once. You can get away with betting turn fairly bit and then exploitatively small on the river. If you check the turn back, you risk action killers on the river. IMO otr, if you're as sure about his hand strength as you say he is, a 200-250 bet size gets the same amount of calls as 150 does.

Seems like a pretty bad cbet. You're blocking his folding range and you have so many better hands to bet this flop with vs whale.

Yeah I probably did miss value on the AQ vs A3 hand.

As far as the 97s hand. I dont understand the bolded comment. Sure I have lots of better hands to CBet the flop with, but this is the hand Im holding right now. I need to play this hand the best possible way. This flop favors me as the preflop raiser. If I can Cbet and get him to fold when I only have 3 outs (if he knew my hand), thats a pretty good result, right?

What I mean when I say "so many better hands" is that you have hands with much higher equity on this board. This hand functions poorly as a cbet because you have no equity when called.

Also, how does this flop favour you as the preflop raiser? Do you know that or are you just saying that? Have you looked at the equity densities of this board as pfr vs BB? I imagine cbetting this hand vs a whale is a very losing play - I think you'd be being pretty results oriented here to say otherwise.

This whale has a very wide range preflop. This flop with 2 big cards hits my range a lot more often than it hits his. That's what I mean when I say it favors the preflop raiser.

Sure its a better Cbet if I have AK/AT Qx/Jx, KT/T9, but its HU and I think the preflop raiser should be betting this flop 80% of the time. Villain is going to have lots of pocket pairs below the J that wont call very often, lots of suited connectors (other than T9s) that cant call and plenty of other garbage that cant call.

I think if youre going to raise 97s, you have to bet most flops when its HU even when you have very little equity when called.

Checking back two pair on the turn. Lol.

Welcome back Mike. My thoughts on the hands below:

1) Easy fold for sure.

2) "Thank you sir"

3) I think I like raising the flop small against this donk bet. You want to keep his calling range wide, and I think you can get value from his Kx hands as well as some mediocre draws/combo draws. I think the turn is a bet given the action, as is the river.

4) Yep this is a fold. There are definitely some players I would call here against, but old lady with a dog is not one of them.

5) Love it. Had a very similar hand the other day at the Isle against the same player type.

6) Betting the turn has two huge benefits, you get immediate value from your hand before another scare card can come off, and you build a pot so your river bet can be more sizable. I think this is definitely a 3-streets type hand. If your opponent can find a fold on the river then wp to him, but people really don't like folding 2 pair.

7) C-bet is ok, would shut down on most turns if called though.

I'm torn on Hand #3 as far as a turn bet. A turn bet seems obvious now after they folded the river, but if I bet $110 on the turn and get check raised, Im in a bad spot. I think its better to check back with the Ad and bet without it.

#6) I played a bit scared I guess. I knew he had A3 or 33 and was a bit uncomfortable at almost 200BBs. I think this is a good example though of my motto "fold to every raise when you dont have a monster or odds to draw". Few people would fold AK to this flop raise. They want to call and evaluate the turn. I think that's a major leak. Barring a read on the specific player, very very few people check raise this flop without be able to beat TPTK.

Dont forget to consider the difference between daytime and evening players though. I know you play in the evening and in the evening Im going to be a lot more comfortable playing a much bigger hand with top 2 than I am against daytime regs. The level of play is night and day...(pun intended). The daytime players arent super good, tricky, tough. They just arent playing big pots very often without a huge hand. Lots of evening players are likely to lose 150+BBs with AJ on this board.

Ive mentioned before that I keep track of all sorts of stuff at the table. I do it for varying lengths of time depending on what it is. Yesterday I started tracking what Im calling "questionable limps". Hands where I limp in and most people would probably fold. Hands where even I think I should probably fold (or raise sometimes) for the most part.
Here's my theory:

Player A plays 20% of hands and player B plays 25% of hands where the extra 5% are questionable limps.

If played B can at least break even on these questionable limped hands that Player A folded, then player B will make more money overall as he will be perceived as looser and get paid off more. He will also be tougher to put on a hand since he clearly has a wider range.

Now I think Im good enough post flop to do better than break even on "questionable limps" which obviously would be even better. Time to test my theory.

I lost $20 after limping questionably and then fold to a raise 4 times. Here are 2 hands where I made money.

1) I limp KdTd UTG. I think that's mostly a fold so it goes into this category. We go 5 to the flop.
Flop ($25) 8d6d3c. SB whale bets $10. BB fairly good older guy calls. I call. Solid TAG calls OTB
Turn ($65) 3h. SB bets $10. BB calls. I call. Button calls again. This is admittedly a strange hand. I almost raised the turn to about $80 and probably wouldve taken it down.
River ($125) Ts. SB checks. BB bets $20. I call. Button and SB fold. I beat SB's 87.
I made $100 on the hand.

2) UTG limps. Whale limps UTG+2. I limp KsJh in MP. Kind of a "meh" spot. We go 4 to the flop.
Flop ($20) Jc8c4s. Loose older guy who is decent bets $25 from UTG. Whale calls. I call
Turn ($95) 5c. Checked around
River ($95) 3h. UTG checks. Whale bets $60. I tank/call. I would fold here a lot but this call is live read based. UTG folds QJ. Whale says "I just have an 8".

I won $135 on the hand

In total I won $200 in these questionable limp hands. Those 2 hands seem like outliers as far as profit on limped pots where I have marginal hands so I'll see how it goes over 100 hrs or so.

Favorite hand of the day.

3 EP limps. An unknown 30ish guy who seems to be semi solid (said he lives in Vegas) raises to $15. Now, there's not a single hand that I would raise to $15 after 3 limpers so IMO this is terrrible. I have already 3 bet him twice after he raised $15 but those were open raises to $15 and I had JJ and AQ. This time I have 5c3c and I call because I know there will be a domino effect especially with 3 limpers already in who wont fold for $10 more. We end up going 7 to the flop.

Flop ($90) Ac4s2d. I kinda like that flop One of the EP limpers leads $45. Preflop raiser calls. I call.

Turn ($225) Tc. EP checks. MP bets $100. I call. EP crai to $175. MP tries to shove his $235 in but I stopped him and said he cant reraise. The dealer then agrees with me and says MP can only call. Obviously I couldve let MP shove since nobody said anything, but rules are rules. As soon as I call the extra $75, EP turns his hand over and has A4. The dealer quickly flips his cards face down but everyone saw them.

River ($750) 8h. MP checks. I shove and MP disgustingly folds and flings his cards across the table. His cards landed face down but someone said they saw AQ.

Id love to get comments on this hand

This is earlier. This same Vegas guy opened to $15. I 3 bet to $50 JJ and everyone folded. Very next hand.....

Vegas guy opened to $15 again from MP. I 3 bet to $50 again with AhQd from LJ. HJ cold calls. He seems to be an erratic kind of loud and arrogant rec fish. Vegas guy calls
Vegas guy ($350)
Hero ($450)
HJ (covers)


Flop ($155) Qs8s4s. Vegas guy checks. Honestly Im really not sure how to proceed here. I dont have the As. I check to see what happens. HJ bets $100. Vegas guy folds. Im not ready to fold. I dont really like calling although I think if I call, Im going to lead any non spade turn. Here I decided to just shove it in and put him in a really bad spot (unless he has a big hand of course).

Thoughts?

I played 3.75 hours and made $940.

I'm now at $70/hr over my last 127 hours of 2/5 since June 21st. (I had the total hours wrong on my last update)

That last hand is an interesting one. I find myself playing pretty straight forward in multi-way pots, so I probably would have just bet the flop intending to fold to a raise from Vegas guy and probably gii vs. the spazz in the HJ.

I don't hate the check though, and I think CRAI for value against the spazz is probably a winning line.

Subbed after reading this
Made my day lol

Im glad I could brighten your day!

53s is not a hand you want to play in a 7-way pot fwiw. Reverse implied odds will get you in big trouble. AQ hand is an easy bet

Cant say I agree with this. If Im gonna play a hand 7 ways, Ill take 53s over the vast majority of hands that the other 6 will have. Of course 53s wouldn't be my first choice of hands to play here, but that's the hand I have when this spot came up. I think its an easy call. I used to be much much tighter and wouldve never played this hand 2 years ago, but the better you get at playing post flop, the more speculative hands you can play. Hands like this can seriously increase your win rate IMO.

Ill take 53s over the preflop raisers AQ all day long when its 7 ways.

That's so fundamentally bad man... Cold calling an open, without closing the action pre, intentionally trying to get into a multiway pot with this hand is burning money. Here are just some of the reasons:

A) you'll never make top pair and thus will have a lot of 2nd and third pair hands, often of which will be "good" but never being able to realise this equity in a 7-way pot.
B) even your two pair hands are weak. One of the best case scenarios for this hand is flopping K35r or two toned or three flush. You'll lead for value/protection , get a bad turn, and not know the relative strength of your two pair. You'll be incredibly susceptible to being bluffed here by hands with less equity.

C) the obvious one, chasing a flush draw thinking your 9 outs are actually contributing to your equity when they're only contributing to your demise. You'll end up making a flush quite often and paying off a big bet with the second best hand. Or even worse, pushing your perceived "13 outer" equity on say a 67Jcc board, only to get it in vs A9cc with barely any equity. This reverse implied odds aspect of this hand is by far the most important reason you should not be playing it.

D) if you cold call here pre, you have to fold when you get squeezed.

Short of flopping a straight, there is no good outcome and no worthwhile reason to play this hand. It doesn't matter how "good" you think you are postflop, this hand won't allow you to make any utilisation of any edge you do have. Again, I think you're being pretty results oriented to be looking to justify this being good...