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Old 11-11-2019, 04:18 AM   #276
skuzlad
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

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Originally Posted by Jay. View Post
I guess i read this wrong the first time that i read it. I read it as "i see absurd bluffs from a player who later on in other hands doesn't even bluff with great blockers." aka a super user who is bluffing off no blockers in the perfect moment but not bluffing great blocks in the wrong moment.

But i guess you mean you see absurd bluffs when someone else in the hand folded a blocker to a value hand.

So a few players at the table are colluding by sharing their folded hands and say when one of them folded Ax and the board is Axx the chance of a bluffing working just increased dramatically.

... i've never really realised how much more powerful GTO + knowing some dead cards is until now. Very profitable and very hard to detect form of collusion.
Yes, I was referring to collusion. Knowing what cards are folded can drastically improve the EV of both your bluffing candidates and your bluff catching region (obviously).

Collusion is very hard to prove and I don't really know what sort of methodology people in the past have used to prove collusion.

I personally don't believe there is superusing on the site. That being said, I also previously believed it was basically impossible to cheat in a live poker game at the casino (minus signalling and soft collusion) until the Mike Postle incident.
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:27 AM   #277
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

I think people serrrrrrrriously overestimate how much of a difference knowing a couple of dead cards makes. Unless you have like 3-4 guys on a table sharing cards, but that seems extremely unlikely esp since you don't pick what table you get sat on. Knowing 2 dead cards might give you a 1-2% edge in a pot every hundred hands or so, very rarely more than that.

People massively overestimate/misunderstand the importance of card removal in general, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone dumb enough to cheat in the first place completely misuses the fact that he knows a couple dead cards and ends up owning himself more often than not.

Can I get a hell yeah
#stillaboveev,just
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Old 11-11-2019, 06:39 AM   #278
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

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Originally Posted by meale View Post
People massively overestimate/misunderstand the importance of card removal in general,
What do people misunderstand exactly?

Card removal is huge. Its insane how much blockers play a part with just knowing your own cards. Knowing two extra magnifies things quite a bit.
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:11 AM   #279
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Yeah gotta strongly disagree there - even without proper empirical analysis, just look at blocker effects on EV of different combos in PIO then imagine you know one extra card how much EV that can gain you.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:33 AM   #280
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

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Originally Posted by AV0995 View Post
What do people misunderstand exactly?

Card removal is huge. Its insane how much blockers play a part with just knowing your own cards. Knowing two extra magnifies things quite a bit.
Can't think of an amazing example off the top of my head but a lot of people think that TT is a good hand to bluff catch with on a 679r board because it blocks straights but forget that it blocks more combos of their bluffs. This sort of thing.

And also the huge majority of the time the cards folded will have absolutely no impact on anything at all, and then most of the time ranges aren't narrow enough to where knowing two extra cards helps you much. Like it's so infrequent. People are in here acting like knowing dead cards is gonna double your winrate or something lol
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Old 11-11-2019, 09:18 AM   #281
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if it did double your w/r, knowing they have nothing useful is fairly useful

the flipside is that catching collusion should be trivial for support, just filter for w/r with other players at the table
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:18 PM   #282
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Just catching up after not reading lately, a very interesting discussion about bots/collusion, but an utterly depressing one also. Glgl op, I believe in you!
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:11 PM   #283
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

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Originally Posted by PlasticElephant View Post
I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if it did double your w/r, knowing they have nothing useful is fairly useful

the flipside is that catching collusion should be trivial for support, just filter for w/r with other players at the table
You're way off imo. When you have KsQ and you're barreling on AJ8ss , knowing that a guy folding 47o isn't going to help you at all. And even if he folded a 4 or 7 of spades, it makes virtually no difference to your strategy.

If you've ever played around with FZ and found that you have pretty close to enough but not quite enough fold equity to bluff a spot and then changed your dead cards from what you have to the same hand but with a more relevant blocker suit wise, to see if you could make the spot profitable with a better combo removal wise, you'll notice the fold equity usually changes by less than 1%. If you swap your KsQd combo out for KhQh.

The only time knowing an additional dead card is going to be super useful is if someone folded the nut blocker and you can all of a sudden remove like 10 combos of flushes/draws from their range. A lot of time people don't fold Ax pre, so you wouldn't get a chance to Use that information without being in the hand against yourself. And then the other vast majority of the time the ranges simply won't condense enough to where knowing a single dead card is going to alter your strategy in the slightest.
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:53 AM   #284
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

I agree with meale, blocker effects are overrated by most people. Hard for colluders to use them unless someone folded an ace blocker to the nut flush or something, or folded a K and the flop comes KKx in a 3bet pot, etc.

From what I saw on the apps (referencing other players' experience, not mine) the real issue is when you have colluders taking you multiway and pushing you out of pots with a bunch of raises. This can be really nasty, but is also a bit easier to detect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2019 View Post
Hello everyone, i decided to come forward about this subject. I have been suspecting something for a couple of months as well. But due to the fact that I've won much in the past on this site I havent really done anything besides constantly monitoring hands for collusion. I'm going to post a bunch of results to strengthen my opionins, if it was just me that suspected this the results wouldn't really say anything. Given circuimstances I find my results super relevant because it seems like a majority (?) of the regs suspect something fishy is going on.

If TLDR what I'm going to talk about below, just look at the graphs. Former massive winner, now turned break even in short time span. Also want to add I'm still doing very well on any other site this year which isn't bodog/bovada.


"What types of suspicious activity:
- Collusion
- Multi Accounting
- Superusing
- Botting
- Real time Solver
- Other"

a) Collusion.. I dont think collusion is a massive problem, IIRC Bovada banned people in the past for collusion. The pools are relatively small and it would be very obvious. I've also been monitoring my hands for roughly 10 months and I rarely find anything suspicious. When you are looking for these things you will find more suspicious things just because you are biased. It's super rare that you get sandwiched in multiway pots by players which would be the typical collusion pattern. Also I think colluding is super hard to do properly when everyone has access to your hands. I do think it's going on but I dont think its the reason why people are not winning. There was always collusion on there to some extent, that's the price you pay for having anonymous tables. I also think variance would be way bigger.

b) Multiaccounting.. Fairly reasonable but still, think their security team would suspect or see something if this was the case. And it is essentially the same as colluding so it would be obvious to spot if people never played big hands vs each other.

c) Superusing.. I do think this is one of the most logical explanations. I'm not sure if I believe it's a inside job or if its a virus that is going around. Both are equally likely, in defense of it not being a virus I whiped my computer multiple times so I dont think its super likely. Open for suggestions what anti-virus to use or how to find out about this. I do use esea nod32 and it never found anything. One argument for this as well is that I see regs playing completely absurd hands preflop. Their stats look reasonable and their betsizes as well, but they somehow end up flatting opens with K9o on the button or whatever.

d) Botting.. sure, fairly reasonable. But there is hours where the action is super quiet and it's rare for a bot to crush highstakes. Most situations where this was the case there was a hybrid between a human/bot like OBORRA. Also a bot would make so big mistakes vs recs so I dont think a bot would be super succesful at 1k-2k. Variance would also be way bigger because you would end up exploiting the bot fairly often where he is playing a balanced strategy and you are not and vice versa.

e) Real time solver.. I know this is going on at multiple american sites due to low security. But tbh this is the site where I see the least ammount of super strong theoretical plays. On litterally any other site your average opponent use WAY MORE sophisticated sizings. A real time solver is less effective in a anon pool due that you constantly need to adjust for fish/weaker regs/nit regs/spewy regs. If this was the case I think we would see way more sophisticated sizings. A good example of this is on the chico network (Betonline/tigergaming). On this site you will see random 1k regs using sizings that are extremely correct. Sizings that top regs like Linus, OtB etc never used.

f) Other.. I do think its not out of the question that they have something in their system which makes it impossible for you to win. They lower your winrate in some way. This would be impossible to prove on a anonymous site. I rarely cooler people, and I rarely get aces preflop and gii. For a very large sample I was losing in AI PF with every hand besides AA (1.5k situations). This is a sort off fishy accusation. But there are a lot of extremely volatile fish and given my reason sample where it seems impossible to go on any kind of heater i'm def not ruling it out.

Also one might argue that the games got tougher, yes this is true they for sure got tougher. When thailand got access to play on there a lot of russian regs or sure showed up most likely due to the fact that the majority of russian high-stakes regs live in asia.

One other argument that I dont think its collusion is that I get absolutely smacked at HU. It's just possible there never was any good hu regs around and some beast started playing on there/someone got drastically better. But I feel like I very often have a opponent that play like he is seeing my cards. HU is usually way more variance, you win some you lose some. But it seems impossible for me to ever cooler the other person meanwhile they make perfect bluffcatches when I ship like 5 times pot in spots where population never bluffs.

I also find it suspicious that a lot of the times I get raped HU there is no one even open sitting at $5/10+ on acr for example. If there truly was some boss reg I'm sure he would be playing other sites. I want to add that I however am pretty sure that I play some normal regulars who beat me as well. I also do think 25k hands of HU is a pretty decent sample. It says more than people think, in ring games that's litterally nothing however.

It's interesting to me that people got doomswitched at different times, which sort off strengths my accusation of them not letting you win more than a certain ammount. Since I most likely was one of the biggest winners(?), I got hit earlier than others. For me this has been going on for the entire year. Either way I'm not sure this happend many times in history at all that one of the biggest winners on a site turned into one of the worst winrate regs. My table selection this year is even tighter on this site due to the lack of results.


Last years results:
https://i.gyazo.com/cf15d1a0536368f7...be5e6ae47f.png

Last years results HU:
https://i.gyazo.com/3fc8b6ebc84b6285...4c9d101650.png

Last years 3handed:
https://i.gyazo.com/fd8568f5ab630089...942ed536e6.png

This years results:
https://i.gyazo.com/24e802b291236d5b...0ecaa46a7b.png

This years results HU:
https://i.gyazo.com/8d33b260df65f06e...71bf86bb86.png

This years results 3handed:
https://i.gyazo.com/e7fbfaba55165dff...0ab389b64f.png

This years results in BBs:
https://i.gyazo.com/94fcfa0c0a130483...62a642779a.png

This years results playing HU+3handed on non bodog sites:
https://i.gyazo.com/979ff7905e260e7b...f4fdfee633.png

Surely if I played vs colluders or incredibly strong regs the variance would be way bigger in my BB graph. The fish on bodog is among the worst I've ever seen so it makes sense to win/lose big ammounts in short time spans. However this doesn't seem to be the case for me. I would never made this post if it wasn't for the fact that so many of you came out at the same time. I do understand that variance is a big part of poker, but if I'm making half a mill less in these games than last year, surely one of you must be crushing big time. Games still look soft to me when I'm comparing the level of play vs other sites. This have been bugging me for the entire year. I'm debating quitting the site despite making absurd ammounts untill this year. Seems like litterally any other site or any other game is higher ev for me at this point.

I did post some of this to Nick Howard as well, I'm curious how people want to move forward with this.
Not to derail this thread but this guy's graphs are pretty wild. It looks like he won at around 5 bb/100 over 500k hands (assuming it's all 10/20) and then broke even for 200k hands. Moreover there is minimal variance in the second sample. (I don't know what to make of that part, it's just strange.)

I did a variance calculation on this using 5 bb/100 win rate and 100 bb/100 standard deviation and got a result of 1.27% chance of the second sample. Low, but not as low as I expected. Variance is a beast.

I personally would never go this long playing on my primary site if my results looked like this (unless I had zero other options). The problem is if you're human you're almost definitely not playing well after you break even for that long. Galfond talks about it a bit here (see Example 1): http://www.philgalfond.com/quick-upd...-poker-player/

It's not irrational to just change sites or stakes if you experience something like this because it's basically going to give you PTSD and make you play way worse than you normally would, further prolonging an already awful downswing.

As far as investigating the site goes, I've talked to a lot of people in this past week and all I can say is things look strange but I can't conclude anything truly nefarious is going on yet. We've encountered at least some people winning at every stake from 500nl-2000nl. Also, the problem with these types of studies is selection bias. You're way more likely to hear from people who are losing than who are winning. And the people who are winning might even hold back information from you because they feel no incentive to give it out.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:42 AM   #285
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Also interested in how far above EV badreg ran last yeaar ^
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:05 PM   #286
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Nick if we send you are hands do you promise not to use them in MDA? To me you'd have to be out of your mind to send you them if you are just going to use to make exploits/products/materials based on them.

Can you make a promise here and on RIO that you won't?
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:11 PM   #287
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

lol promise
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:20 PM   #288
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by djz View Post
Nick if we send you are hands do you promise not to use them in MDA? To me you'd have to be out of your mind to send you them if you are just going to use to make exploits/products/materials based on them.

Can you make a promise here and on RIO that you won't?
lol. Not meant as a slight, but I really have to agree. I think players would be a bit naive to send over their dbs.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:59 PM   #289
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Yea I'm not sending a single hand over till then and would think anyone who does is a rube.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:26 PM   #290
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

I'm not sure why I am even responding to this, but these comments are super tilting so here it goes:

1. If you aren't comfortable sending your database, just send a graph. Nick said either is fine.

2. If you did send Nick your Ignition database, it's impossible for him to "exploit you" with it. This isn't how database analysis works. I know because I currently do all the database analysis for Poker Detox. (I am Nick's brother.) Here is my journal on RIO: https://www.google.com/search?q=mobi...hrome&ie=UTF-8

For any meaningful analysis you need at least 20M hands, but upwards of 100M is ideal. You can currently buy 20M hands for a few hundred bucks on various sites. Poaching 250-500k hands at a time from individual players is totally ridiculous from a cost effectiveness standpoint.

Furthermore, there's usually no way to exploit an individual person on an anonymous site. You can't even see who anyone is, let alone know when they are playing. What do you think is going to happen?

3. There is a huge ethical difference between buying hands on a website that everyone has access to and hijacking someone's poker journal on 2p2 to steal data from individual players. If you think this is what successful poker players spend their time doing, I feel bad for you.

If I thought your comments were just jabs at Nick, I would leave them alone. But this type of paranoia actually has a negative impact on the entire poker community. Saying stuff like this reduces the chance of a meaningful investigation happening, if such an investigation is necessary.

To the OP, sorry for the derail.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:46 PM   #291
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

It's not about being exploited as an individual; which is obviously impossible to do to me if you have my DB on an anonymous site anyway. I play against people in Nick's stable/CFP and if the CFP's techniques are actually effective, then providing them with hands that can be used for MDA is obviously going to harmful to me (as CFP members WR will increase against fish+regs). Maybe work on your reading comprehension skills before getting tilted.

None of this is directed at Nick personally I would say the same thing to PlasticElephant if D7 made a similar request. Actually I'd probably be way harsher because I talk to him on Skype a decent amount and I'd be offended if he thought me and other Bovada regs are such rubes we'd happily hand over our DB's without some kind of assurance and I don't know Nick (except some brief Skype convos) or you.

Quote:
For any meaningful analysis you need at least 20M hands, but upwards of 100M is ideal. You can currently buy 20M hands for a few hundred bucks on various sites. Poaching 250-500k hands at a time from individual players is totally ridiculous from a cost effectiveness standpoint.
Ignition hands are very hard to obtain and quite valuable. There is no way for a retailer to collect them through observing a table and resell them...to collect NL2k (or nl200 or nl20 whatever) hands they have to play or obtain them from a person who did play. It's not at all comparable to buying hands on ipoker or 888 for example. All I have to do to collect hands on WPN is leave a computer running with 60+ tables open but I cannot do the same on Ignition.

Also you do not need 20mm hands for analysis of stuff like:
1) PFR check fold to IP flop cbet
2) Call 3bet OOP
3) 4b pre
4) Flop checkraise BB v SRP
Which are all super useful to know.

How is a graph useful in proving anything? There is massive variance in winrates and I really doubt Bovada will care at all if a bunch of regs start losing. If anything they would think that is a good thing lol.

I don't believe that this is an attempt by Nick to obtain hands from regs and he genuinely believes there is cheating and this is a good response. If I thought that Nick was not acting in good faith I would have said it. However, I don't think it's paranoid IN THE SLIGHTEST to think you guys will also use these hands for MDA and ask for some assurance that it won't be. Since you refused to address that, which is literally the only thing I asked about, not how many hands are needed for MDA, not if I as an individual can be exploited if you have my DB (and it's pretty insulting to suggest that I would think that about hands played on an anon site), nor how much these hands cost on a 3rd party retailer, I can only conclude that you will not agree to that and won't use these hands purely to explore cheating. This concern can easily be allayed via agreeing to use these hands in a separate folder and dispose of them after the investigation.

Therefore, I strongly discourage anyone to send their hands to Nick, until he or his staff agree that they will not be used for MDA on Bovada pools, and send them to Bovada security directly for any concerns.

Last edited by djz; 11-12-2019 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:49 PM   #292
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiosick View Post
I'm not sure why I am even responding to this, but these comments are super tilting so here it goes:

1. If you aren't comfortable sending your database, just send a graph. Nick said either is fine.

2. If you did send Nick your Ignition database, it's impossible for him to "exploit you" with it. This isn't how database analysis works. I know because I currently do all the database analysis for Poker Detox. (I am Nick's brother.) Here is my journal on RIO: https://www.google.com/search?q=mobi...hrome&ie=UTF-8

For any meaningful analysis you need at least 20M hands, but upwards of 100M is ideal. You can currently buy 20M hands for a few hundred bucks on various sites. Poaching 250-500k hands at a time from individual players is totally ridiculous from a cost effectiveness standpoint.

Furthermore, there's usually no way to exploit an individual person on an anonymous site. You can't even see who anyone is, let alone know when they are playing. What do you think is going to happen?

3. There is a huge ethical difference between buying hands on a website that everyone has access to and hijacking someone's poker journal on 2p2 to steal data from individual players. If you think this is what successful poker players spend their time doing, I feel bad for you.

If I thought your comments were just jabs at Nick, I would leave them alone. But this type of paranoia actually has a negative impact on the entire poker community. Saying stuff like this reduces the chance of a meaningful investigation happening, if such an investigation is necessary.

To the OP, sorry for the derail.
lol come on man
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:36 PM   #293
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiosick View Post
I'm not sure why I am even responding to this, but these comments are super tilting so here it goes:

1. If you aren't comfortable sending your database, just send a graph. Nick said either is fine.

2. If you did send Nick your Ignition database, it's impossible for him to "exploit you" with it. This isn't how database analysis works. I know because I currently do all the database analysis for Poker Detox. (I am Nick's brother.) Here is my journal on RIO: https://www.google.com/search?q=mobi...hrome&ie=UTF-8

For any meaningful analysis you need at least 20M hands, but upwards of 100M is ideal. You can currently buy 20M hands for a few hundred bucks on various sites. Poaching 250-500k hands at a time from individual players is totally ridiculous from a cost effectiveness standpoint.

Furthermore, there's usually no way to exploit an individual person on an anonymous site. You can't even see who anyone is, let alone know when they are playing. What do you think is going to happen?

3. There is a huge ethical difference between buying hands on a website that everyone has access to and hijacking someone's poker journal on 2p2 to steal data from individual players. If you think this is what successful poker players spend their time doing, I feel bad for you.

If I thought your comments were just jabs at Nick, I would leave them alone. But this type of paranoia actually has a negative impact on the entire poker community. Saying stuff like this reduces the chance of a meaningful investigation happening, if such an investigation is necessary.

To the OP, sorry for the derail.
This whole post is hilarious, but the bolded part is next level.

I'm not saying NH would do anything with these HHs sent to them, but thinking that you couldn't use a few million HHs for playerpool tendencies to massively help your stable/CFP is unreal levels of wrong. And you say you get paid to analyse databases?
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:50 PM   #294
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

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Originally Posted by GazzyB123 View Post
This whole post is hilarious, but the bolded part is next level.

I'm not saying NH would do anything with these HHs sent to them, but thinking that you couldn't use a few million HHs for playerpool tendencies to massively help your stable/CFP is unreal levels of wrong. And you say you get paid to analyse databases?
lol yeah. I feel bad that we're derailing olas thread, especially since he's such a top-shelf guy, so I'm gonna bow out. Glad I'm not the only one who saw the absurdity in that post though.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:21 PM   #295
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Yeah this is my last post on the topic cause I don't want to derail any further (sorry OP) but if anyone wants to send me their database, I am just going to use for my cheating investigation across every site which I'm not going to discuss how I conduct and can't promise to give any updates. I'm not gonna promise not to sell them to a retailer, give to my friends, sell to strangers, analyze in hand2note or HEM2 for any kind of patterns, cause I shouldn't need to...and if you don't wanna just hand them over then you are paranoid and hurting poker. Also it's offensive to me and you just need to get on my paradigm if you don't understand why you should give me it.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:25 PM   #296
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

I would never use hands that I got for an investigation to do general database research on player tendencies. They would be deleted immediately after the investigation. You have my word on this.

To the point about Ignition hands being super valuable: they really aren't. I have a few million that I never use for research for a couple reasons:

1. Sample size. I would need way more to do any important research. I'm not going to clear that threshold with another couple million or whatever I could get from a cheating investigation.

Yes I could look at basic stuff like fold to flop c-bet or whatever else you said, but I already know the answers to these questions from Stars hands and other sites. These things aren't going to differ much from site to site.

2. You can't get more than about 100 hands on any given player ID on Ignition or other anon sites. That means you can't reliable filter out fish using preflop stats. This makes the data essentially useless for research as far as I am concerned because regs and fish play totally differently.

If someone were to study a database of a few million hands submitted by a dozen or so regs, this would be slightly more valuable as they now know that some hands were definitely played by regs, but it would be more like a study on those specific regs than something that reflects the population as a whole. Again, not something I am interested in.

---

Graphs can be useful for a cheating investigation if many proven winners can show their results all fell off at a specific time. This should be obvious.

Last edited by radiosick; 11-12-2019 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:31 PM   #297
SauloCosta
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Funny that so many of you are worried about sending a few hundred thousand hands of an anonymous environment. No meaningful study can be done with such amount of hands. Even a few million is close to worthless. The incentive to get more evidence of possible cheating should be so more important.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:45 PM   #298
SauloCosta
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazzyB123 View Post
And you say you get paid to analyse databases?
The level of arrogance combined with cluelessness of this sentence is actually embarrassing. Patrick is probably the most advanced guy in the whole poker community when it comes to DB analysis, and yet you are trying to make fun of him lol
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:51 PM   #299
djz
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

OK I take back what I said about not saying anymore. Nick's CFP is a ****ing scam and the reason his players are losing is the second you spot one they can be instantly wrecked. If you are playing and you play close attention to your tables it is not that hard to identify one even in an anonymous pool (like 500z on ign...there are big tells people have). Didn't take a long amount of time to reverse engineer their standard lines and really start crushing those weak regs.

The arrogance of people associated with him to come in here and basically insult everyone in the thread who doesn't want to just give him their database is ****ing stunning. When you ask someone for something for free (that is potentially detrimental to them), the burden is on YOU to show why the other people should participate. If someone is hesitant you don't go "OMG we are geniuses (and the best) you are hurting poker and stupid if you don't agree with us also our guy Patrick you've never heard of??? He's the nuts!"

I saw your guys MTT CFP "deal" and it is a ****ing disgusting attempt to suck the blood out of poker community like a bunch of mosquitoes.

PMs open if you wanna know more happy to share my NL500-2000 2019 ignition graph etc.. Coaching rate $175/hr. I will give a 65% discount if you play on apps where Nick sends his stable. Get on that higher paradigm.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:59 PM   #300
barney big nuts
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Re: Success, Sobriety, and Financial Freedom: Out of Poker Retirement and back to Mid/Hi Stakes

You said what you had to say now let it go and let other people have a say.We know how you feel no need to post 50 times and derail an important topic

There could be a ring of 10 or 20 people working together like the sit n go cheats. Not saying this as fact but it's possible
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