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Started with a <img /nl challenge, now we're here. Started with a <img /nl challenge, now we're here.
View Poll Results: SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IS A REALISTIC ANNUAL EARNING OF AN "A" PLAYER GRINDING $1/$2NLHE?
LESS THAN $22K
392 12.65%
$22K TO $28K
453 14.61%
$28K TO $34K
504 16.26%
$34K TO $40K
528 17.03%
$40K TO $46K
295 9.52%
MORE THAN $46K
928 29.94%

08-29-2013 , 04:26 PM
@thehashman @jackmeplz69 thank you.

Today +$47. I did hoard the #1 seat change button the whole time tho.
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08-29-2013 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry
Bad beats will happen... I think if u have a hard understanding of this it helps dealing with the pain bad beats bring. With that said, its still tough to handle the 1,2,3 outers for big cash pots or late tourney runs. When this happens to me in cash (for huge pots), or tourney (late run bust outs), I will sometimes take a couple days off. I feel that I could still play great after a bad beat, but its more of - I rather b somewhere else. I try not to do things that doesn't make me happy. Playing after a bad beat, I'm def not happy, so I leave and not try to not to think of it. It's hard not to think of the bad beat, but I try to run it off, lift weights, tennis, fam activities, etc until i find that zen back n my life. Usually at the end of day 2 I have a strong desire to get back to felt and try to book a win. Winning cures everything!!!
If i experience mini bad beats in cash sessions, then I will just walk it off and regroup. This happens on the daily, and regroup walks help me tremendously to clear my head. Taking breaks to reassess...get a game plan...stay in front of the game.
My biggest advice is dont EVER play if u think u r not playing ur very best! This game has no room for error!! AND PLEASE KNOW Its just poker, and only poker. It could always be a lot worse! Feel blessed for what u have!! Its just a bad beat, and Bad beats build character. sometimes u will c things n a different light because of a bad beats...take pride in that.

Update: where I am as of today on the $40k Challenge. 4 months left of
grinding 1/2 & 1/3. Sept and October r going to b crucial months w many tournaments.
For those just joining the thread. The guidelines r simple: play only 1/2 & 1/3 nlhe the whol year, buyns range from $300 and not to exceed $800 in one day, play an average of 30hrs/wk, and play $5k worth of tournaments. The mission is $40k. Why? I always been curious what a solid "A" player grinding 1/2nlhe could make annually. The poll question attached to this thread ask the same question.
Up to date running cash total as of 8/28/13 at 11am = $25,382. (-$2,375 in Ts = $23,007 overall). The thread, and posts have helped me throughout this challenge. So big ups to you!


GL sir! Love this large and juicy cluster of highroller chips ! Such an inspiration that it's almost September and you're still in it and going strong!
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08-31-2013 , 12:07 AM
@freeasbird appreciate ya. Because of the support from the 2+2ers this challenge has kept me on course. The encouraging words have fueled my desire to do my very best in completing my goal. I can’t thank you guys enough! A big

Today: No poker today. I sweated buckets doing landscaping at the apartment during the day. At night the family got our game/dinner on at Chuckie Cheese. After pizza, 50 tokens, and hi fiving Chuckie, we then picked up a few things at Wal-Mart (light bulbs,2 picture frame, 5 cans of tennis balls, conditioner, sunscreen, socks, trash bags). Wal-Mart on Friday nights is the stone cold nuts!! I wd have to say though, my highlight from the last 2 days was when my gd friend Sean drafted Aaron Hernandez in the 6th rd of our Fantasy Ftball Draft. Wow! The chat room last night went nuts on that one! He got needled like no other! It’s going to b pretty hard getting that pigskin pass security and through the vertical steel bars. Sean is a wizard though; mayb he’s able to pull that off. Hey O.J. went free, so it might actually turn out to be a great pick! Mayb Sean can pull some strings and get this trial through the courts before Sunday’s game!

End of Month Update:
Cash Games: +$25,586 total to date. $27.76/hr. 922 total hrs. Averaging 27hrs grinding/week. Winning sessions 70.5%.
Tournaments: -$2,375 total to date. 1 cash & 8 no cash. -$3,075 Total Buy-ins
Overall (cash & Ts combined): $23,211
If my math is correct I need to earn $16,789 the last 4 months to meet the $40K goal. That is an average of $4200/month from here on out. It is going to be extremely tough! The last couple of months I have dropped off the pace a bit, and it’s gonna take some sexy scores to hit the mark. These next couple of months will be a decisive whether the $40k goal will be obtainable. If I go 0fer in the WSOP tournaments coming up, it will definitely be a long shot hitting $40K…Odds 10:1 If I’m able to break even, or come out a couple $Ks ahead in Ts the next couple of months…Odds 2:1 If I’m able to hit a decent score (6k+) in T…Odds 1:1 With all that said, my current odds I'm setting myself now wd be 3.5:1 of hitting the $40K Challenge.
Rules on Challenge: play just 1/2 & 1/3nlhe all year, buy in for $300 and not to exceed $800 in one day, try to obtain an average of 30hrs/wk grinding, and play no more than $5K worth of tournaments. Totals from Cash +/- Tournaments = Annual Profit (hopefully reaching $40K+ Goal)

A SLIGHT CHANGE TO CHALLENGE GUIDELINE REQUEST: First off, I been thinking about this change for the last couple of months deciding whether or not I shd implement it. I wd like to bring it to your attention to c what you think. Your feedback/advice is greatly appreciated. The slight change I am requesting regards ONLY to the tourney guideline of…“not to exceed $5K of tourney buyins” rule . Right now, per $40K challenge requirements, it says I will spend/invest no more than $5K worth of tournaments. I am asking to change this to: “Play any amount of Tournaments, BUT not exceed -$5K in TOURNAMENT EARNINGS. The difference is… instead of counting $5K WORTH OF BUYINS(original guideline), I am now relying/focusing on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS (new guideline). If my TOURNAMENT EARNINGS hit -$5K at any point; then no more tournaments the rest of the year. If I hit a score that puts me in the Tournament black, then I can continue to play tourneys until I reach-$5K in the red. I really wd like to transition into more Tourneys next year, and with this slight change I can get a head start on that. This wd allow me to play more tournaments this fall as long as I don’t go $5K in the red. So to be clear…if looking above at my current Tourney Updates: instead of focusing on TOTAL BUYINS (-$3,075), with the new change… now wd b focusing on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS (-$2,375). With the old format/guideline I wd have $2,925 left for T buyins. New format/guideline I hv a changing variable based on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS, and currently w new format/guideline hv $3,625 in play for T buys. Why the change? If I run gd at any circuit stop I don’t want to quit playing Ts just because I hit the $5K buy-n mark. Also if run gd early in any WSOP stop (HCO or HSI) I wd hate to gv up on trying to be a Casino Champion.
My next tournament is Sept 20th event 2 WSOP Cincy, and if I cash I wd like to keep playing Ts as long as my TOURNAMENT EARNINGS don’t reach $5K in the red. If it does get to $5K red, then I’d be done w Ts for the year no question! With the slight change, this still means the most I could lose/subtract from my annual cash game totals wd b -$5K. I’m leaving this slight change up for discussion. It only seems fair. U kind folks have stuck w me and my $40K guidelines from the jump, so if u don’t want me to make this change let me know! If u wd like to c me fire a few more bullets on Ts w new guideline, then let me know as well. Your feedback/advice matters to me! Is this wise? Responsible BR management? Thoughts?
God Bless
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08-31-2013 , 12:18 AM
I like the change...gl in Cincy...maybe see you there.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using 2+2 Forums
Started with a <img /nl challenge, now we're here. Quote
08-31-2013 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry
So to be clear…if looking above at my current Tourney Updates: instead of focusing on TOTAL BUYINS (-$3,075), with the new change… now wd b focusing on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS (-$2,375). With the old format/guideline I wd have $2,925 left for T buyins. New format/guideline I hv a changing variable based on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS, and currently w new format/guideline hv $3,625 in play for T buys.
TYPO: $1,925 & $2,625
I'm calling this a typo (lol) because the error looks really bad from smone holding a Mathematics Degree.
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08-31-2013 , 02:40 AM
i like the change too and gl in cincy hope to see you there. i plan on playing a bunch of tournaments while the WSOPC is there and depending on how i do i may make my way over the SI right after for the WSOPC there
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08-31-2013 , 02:49 AM
yeah def play more tournies especially if you cash in one before you spend $5k and have a shot at some POY $ or whatever. Do what you think is the most +EV thing for you.
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08-31-2013 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicEM55
i like the change too and gl in cincy hope to see you there. i plan on playing a bunch of tournaments while the WSOPC is there and depending on how i do i may make my way over the SI right after for the WSOPC there
I am assuming you are the guy that wears the cubs hat right? See you in the poker room all the time.
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08-31-2013 , 11:39 AM
I'm in a hand the other day that has left me thinking. I'm new at the game (this will likely become more evident the further you read) and there are a lot of situations where I'm not sure what the best or proper play would be. The following is one such situation and if you've got the time, I'd like to hear your thoughts;

It's your typical 1/2NLHE at the Shoe. I'm in the BB with a stack of 700ish. I've been card dead for a while. I haven't played a lot of hands, but the ones I have played, I've gotten good value. I feel as if my raises should command a little respect from the table because I have consistently shown down the goods in big pots.

To my left is a very loose (call any amount pre-flop) gambler. Younger guy who had apparently hit the craps table for 6K, or so. Already, he had dumped about 1K into the card game. As I said, he was calling $30 or $40 pre-flop and was generally good for a couple streets of value if he hit any piece of it. In addition to this, he's straddling $10 from button, cutoff, UTG on every orbit.

Anyway, this guy had just returned to the game and decided to take up the seat to my left, rather than returning to his old seat. He has about $350ish behind and has straddled $10 UTG.

As a side note; I thought of moving seats, myself, at that point. There was an open spot at the table that would have given me position on both loose players in the game, but I don't like moving seats unless it's an issue of practicality, for instance; if I can't see the board or the damn air conditioning is blowing me into an icicle or something. From where I was sitting, I may not have been getting dealt a ton of good hands, but I was taking down 90% of the pots I entered, so why mess with a good thing? Thoughts on that?

Anyway, back to the hand;

UTG+1, we'll call him, Fred, has about $250ish behind. This guy hasn't gotten involved in ton of hands. Seems to enter pots, call a bet or two then fold. The only hand I remember seeing him show down was a cooler for him. He held Qs8s with a Q88 board and lost when he shipped it on the river (after flat calling raises on all prior streets) into QQ. *puke...

Anyway; Fred calls the $10 straddle and action folds all the way around to me in the BB with an extremely modest holding of Kc2c. As I said previously, I hadn't been playing a lot of hands and had folded every single hand that Melissa had dealt me. It was so bad that she actually peeked at a hand I mucked (Qd3c, if I recall), but I digress...(thoughts on dealers peeking your mucks?)

I decide to call the $10 and cross my fingers for the ol' K2 flop and if I miss, perhaps my image will allow me to buy this one on a later street. The loose guy checks his option on the straddle and we are going 3 ways with $30 in the pot to a flop of...

Ac8s5c...no K/2 flop, but I did pick up the nut flush draw. Action is on me and I decide to lead out a bet of $30. My thinking is that since I am drawing to the nuts, I need to #1: build the pot and #2 try my best to rep a made hand so that I may have a chance of stealing this one if my "X"c doesn't come in. By betting the entire pot, I'm not laying anyone profitable odds to make a call on a draw, even though, if my ship comes in and I catch a club, I would prefer to have all those drawing hands coming along for the ride. I hate to run all that money off, but I feel as if a bet of only $10 or $15 will make villian more likely to put me on a draw, rather than a made hand and this will make it nearly impossible for me to steal this pot, if my draw misses, or get paid-off if my draw hits (feel free to insert your thoughts on my flop bet)

Back to the action; the loose guy folds to my $30 bet and Fred flat calls me, quite easily. I'm not too sure where to put, Fred. He hasn't shown down many hands. In my head, I'm thinking of that Q/8 hand where he flat called the first two streets on a Q88 flop. He could have anything.

$90 in the pot going heads-up to see a Jd hit the turn. Big red BRICK for me, but a card that shouldn't have really changed my standing in the hand, so in keeping up the pretense of holding a made hand; I lead out a bet of $40, into a pot of $90. (My bet sizing here is probably way wrong for the situation. In hindsight, I think a bet of $75 may have been better. I was trying to convince Fred that I had a strong, made hand. AsKc, or Aces-up, or a set of 5's, etc...I think that if I were actually holding one of those hands, I would have bet at least $75, if not, $100 on the turn to protect it from the flush draw.

Anyway, Fred hesitates for a moment, then pushes forward $40 from his stack of nickles to call my bet...

I'm worried at this point because I know that Fred likely has the type of hand that I'm trying trying to represent. There is a chance -and my toes were crossed- that Fred was also on a Flush draw. Maybe he had that Q/8 again...in clubs???

Truth be told; I still couldn't pin down Fred to any specific hand, but I knew, for certain, that he had one and that he simply wasn't going to give it up. I'm, inwardly, questioning that $40 turn bet and wondering if I had bet more? If I had checked? And most importantly, what am I willing to donk-off on a river bet when I brick?

As I am contemplating this mystery, and inwardly consoling myself with the thought that even if I lose this pot, I'll still be up about $300 for the session, so it could be much worse. This is typical; I get ahead a little; I get bored; I think to myself, "why am I not taking advantage of my table image and stack size by coming in a little wider than normal and stealing one or two when I don't connect?"

Such is my current standing in this one; I'm into this hand now for a total of $90; leading out on two streets, after flopping the nut flush draw. I know I am behind in this one, I also know that, come what may, I simply cannot check the river. I've got to throw something out there and I'm 100% certain that Fred is not folding his hand to any bet. As it stands; he's got $90 of his own in the pot with about $160 left behind, I think he only folds his hand if a club hits the river, unless the club hits him as well. I'm thinking if a non-club hits the river, that I will lead out with a bet of $30. If he is on the club draw, then he can't call anything, and may be hard pressed to call $30 (looks like a small value bet from a strong hand) if he is holding onto middle pair or a marginal Ace. Also, I think the small bet may compel Fred to three-bet me on the river with a wider range of holdings than he would if I had bet anything more than $50. Maybe he flat calls a a larger bet, with two-pair when he may three-bet a smaller raise holding the same two-pair? My hope is that if I brick the river that Fred will three-bet my river bet so that I won't have to show down my dog of a hand...perhaps I should have the guts to be willing to bet the pot, come what may on the river. Sorry, I don't. I'm weak and pathetic and generally suck. And even if I weren't weak and pathetic; I sincerely felt that that every nickel I threw into the pot would only be a donation. Fred was calling; only a club may push him out.

Back to the hand; there is about $170 in the pot and Fred and I are heads-up to the river as I am, inwardly, beating myself up for getting into another bad spot, semi-bluffing OOP, when Melissa serves up the most exquisite 9c mine eyes ere have seen! I can't believe it! Ding-dong! Ring the bell, bitches...we have a winner!!!

How much will Fred call, I wonder? I'm not sure how much the club bothered Fred. Considering my post-flop action, I don't think he has me on the flush. He's probably got me on an Ace or two-pair, I don't think he puts me on bluffing. I'm pretty sure he thinks that I flopped my hand and, with that in mind, and; now that the club has hit the river, I don't think Fred will be willing to call much unless he is holding two-pair, a set, or a smaller flush.

I decide not to get greedy and I lead out a microscopic bet of $30 (the same as I had intended to bet on a brick) into a pot containing $170, bringing the total pot to $200. Action is on Fred.

(Your thoughts on this? At less than 1/5 pot, it's a very small, begging for a call, raise. My thinking here is that, with only around $160 left behind, a raise that may cost Fred more than 50% of his stack, may induce him to fold.

I figured that he had to call the $30 with top-pair or better, even with the club hitting the river. Although a raise of $50 would have probably been just as likely to get paid off. I'm not very good at deciding these things...rookie...

Anyway, Fred hesitates for a moment, before stacking all of his chips into a single a tower and shoving them into the middle. Holy cow!!! He shipped it on me!!! Woot!!! He must have been on that Qc8c.
I snap call and turn over the nuts.

Fred turns over...AdJh...wtf?!?
And I thought that I was the one who played that hand horribly wrong! Holy moly! What a fish! Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one, if you've got 'em. Where did I go wrong? What could I have done that may have been a better play?

Insert criticism below...

PS...sorry for not using to cool suit icons. I'm working from a mobile device and couldn't figure out the interface. As I stated before; Weak. Pathetic. Generally suck. Sounds vaguely familiar...
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08-31-2013 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoaYourLawn
I am assuming you are the guy that wears the cubs hat right? See you in the poker room all the time.
yeah that's me
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08-31-2013 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveAction
There was an open spot at the table that would have given me position on both loose players in the game, but I don't like moving seats unless it's an issue of practicality, for instance; if I can't see the board or the damn air conditioning is blowing me into an icicle or something. From where I was sitting, I may not have been getting dealt a ton of good hands, but I was taking down 90% of the pots I entered, so why mess with a good thing? Thoughts on that?
K. Thoughts of moving seats. I will move if Im going to b to the left of a player who straddles often. I hate wasting $1 and $2 on my blinds, and being utg a lot preflop because of him straddling many hands dealt. I wd like to be in the middle or a few to his right of this player. I don’t believe moving into a “hot seat”. Just because player X wins in that seat, doesn’t mean player Y will. It’s absurd! I agree w u that HSI hv sm seats (table 7 seat 2,3) that are really cold from where the air conditioning vents r placed. Sure if u r uncomfortable, I wd say move. But I guess u hv to weigh the opportunity cost of moving for comfort Vs. gd poker seat in that case. HSI is so miserably cold, and I have left early many days because of it being so intolerable! Yes I also agree w u that it is gd to move to b on left of a loose guy, but if oop u can use that to ur advantage as well w mayb sm more ch/raising. When I take my seat, I try to sit to the left of big stacks, and thinking players. In closing, I don’t c moving seats within a session that big of deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveAction
Anyway; Fred calls the $10 straddle and action folds all the way around to me in the BB with an extremely modest holding of Kc2c. As I said previously, I hadn't been playing a lot of hands and had folded every single hand that Melissa had dealt me. It was so bad that she actually peeked at a hand I mucked (Qd3c, if I recall), but I digress...(thoughts on dealers peeking your mucks?)
I decide to call the $10 and cross my fingers for the ol' K2 flop and if I miss, perhaps my image will allow me to buy this one on a later street. The loose guy checks his option on the straddle and we are going 3 ways with $30 in the pot to a flop of...
First off, my thoughts on dealers peeking at muck cards- don’t like it.
Since u r asking for criticism I’ll gv u my thoughts…The Kc2c I’m not too wild about playing this hand on a $10 straddle oop, but it is only $8 to u on the bb. If ur read is that he’s not going to raise his straddle, I guess u can make a case for calling. Luckily he didn’t raise his straddle. If it was Ac2c instead of Kc2c it wd b an easier decision. If ace hits u can tread lightly, and if clubs come ur drawing to nuts, and u also straight possibilities. Kc2c is vulnerable a lot of times. I try not to put myself in bad spots when playing nhle, and this kind of hand gears up that way. With that said, u happened to get a decent flop w ur hand. Plus w ur image leading up to this hand has been perceived by table as playing selectively. So like u said, u can play ur “perceived image” accordingly w this hand. I wd b n a pickle though if the flop came K 9 7 rainbow and u check and player bets $20, or u bet and get called? Then if turn is any card that’s not a 2 or ace, and facing another ($30ish) bet, it just puts u n a very bad spot where u can only beat bluffs most of time. Especially in 1/2nhle there is no need to put urself n bad spots. There r so many gd spots that people will pay u off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveAction
I decide to call the $10 and cross my fingers for the ol' K2 flop and if I miss, perhaps my image will allow me to buy this one on a later street. The loose guy checks his option on the straddle and we are going 3 ways with $30 in the pot to a flop of...
Ac8s5c...no K/2 flop, but I did pick up the nut flush draw. Action is on me and I decide to lead out a bet of $30. My thinking is that since I am drawing to the nuts, I need to #1: build the pot and #2 try my best to rep a made hand so that I may have a chance of stealing this one if my "X"c doesn't come in. By betting the entire pot, I'm not laying anyone profitable odds to make a call on a draw, even though, if my ship comes in and I catch a club, I would prefer to have all those drawing hands coming along for the ride. I hate to run all that money off, but I feel as if a bet of only $10 or $15 will make villian more likely to put me on a draw, rather than a made hand and this will make it nearly impossible for me to steal this pot, if my draw misses, or get paid-off if my draw hits (feel free to insert your thoughts on my flop bet)
I like u leading out on this flop, I prob wd hv lead out 2/3 pot ($20) instead. Leading on draws in 1/2 usually gets u paid if they hit. Ur lead also can represent a made hand, so like it. $20 is prob better for pot control. Once u get called on the flop, u have to put Villain on a big ace. W ur $30 pot size bet, I doubt he is calling w draws. So u can assume once ur $30 flop bet is called, he has a big Ace. Fred did call the $10 straddle in utg+1, so u have to narrow his range to pairs, and holdings like KJ suited, KQ suited, A10off+
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveAction
Back to the action; the loose guy folds to my $30 bet and Fred flat calls me, quite easily. I'm not too sure where to put, Fred. He hasn't shown down many hands. In my head, I'm thinking of that Q/8 hand where he flat called the first two streets on a Q88 flop. He could have anything.
$90 in the pot going heads-up to see a Jd hit the turn. Big red BRICK for me, but a card that shouldn't have really changed my standing in the hand, so in keeping up the pretense of holding a made hand; I lead out a bet of $40, into a pot of $90. (My bet sizing here is probably way wrong for the situation. In hindsight, I think a bet of $75 may have been better. I was trying to convince Fred that I had a strong, made hand. AsKc, or Aces-up, or a set of 5's, etc...I think that if I were actually holding one of those hands, I would have bet at least $75, if not, $100 on the turn to protect it from the flush draw.
Anyway, Fred hesitates for a moment, then pushes forward $40 from his stack of nickles to call my bet...
I'm worried at this point because I know that Fred likely has the type of hand that I'm trying trying to represent. There is a chance -and my toes were crossed- that Fred was also on a Flush draw. Maybe he had that Q/8 again...in clubs???
Truth be told; I still couldn't pin down Fred to any specific hand, but I knew, for certain, that he had one and that he simply wasn't going to give it up. I'm, inwardly, questioning that $40 turn bet and wondering if I had bet more? If I had checked? And most importantly, what am I willing to donk-off on a river bet when I brick?
As I am contemplating this mystery, and inwardly consoling myself with the thought that even if I lose this pot, I'll still be up about $300 for the session, so it could be much worse. This is typical; I get ahead a little; I get bored; I think to myself, "why am I not taking advantage of my table image and stack size by coming in a little wider than normal and stealing one or two when I don't connect?"
Such is my current standing in this one; I'm into this hand now for a total of $90; leading out on two streets, after flopping the nut flush draw. I know I am behind in this one, I also know that, come what may, I simply cannot check the river. I've got to throw something out there and I'm 100% certain that Fred is not folding his hand to any bet. As it stands; he's got $90 of his own in the pot with about $160 left behind, I think he only folds his hand if a club hits the river, unless the club hits him as well. I'm thinking if a non-club hits the river, that I will lead out with a bet of $30. If he is on the club draw, then he can't call anything, and may be hard pressed to call $30 (looks like a small value bet from a strong hand) if he is holding onto middle pair or a marginal Ace. Also, I think the small bet may compel Fred to three-bet me on the river with a wider range of holdings than he would if I had bet anything more than $50. Maybe he flat calls a a larger bet, with two-pair when he may three-bet a smaller raise holding the same two-pair? My hope is that if I brick the river that Fred will three-bet my river bet so that I won't have to show down my dog of a hand...perhaps I should have the guts to be willing to bet the pot, come what may on the river. Sorry, I don't. I'm weak and pathetic and generally suck. And even if I weren't weak and pathetic; I sincerely felt that that every nickel I threw into the pot would only be a donation. Fred was calling; only a club may push him out.
U say Fred flats ur flop bet quite easily, so this narrow his range to a big Ace for sure (A10 or better), or flop set especially coming in from UTG+1 for a $10straddle pf. U also mentioned u don’t hv much info on the player except for the cooler Q8 he was involved in. I wd b worried after he calls pot size flop bet, and instead of betting turn, I may ch/call if getting a gd price to hit ur draw. Some occasions I may even ch/raise all in on turn, but this Fred guy seems pretty strong and ch/raise cd b very risky… so prob wdnt do it here in this spot w ole Freddie boy. Prob go w ch on turn and hope it gets checked behing. If it does then u can bluff river if clubs don’t show up. If u check turn, u can call if getting a gd price, or wave white flag and ch/fold if priced out. W ur flush draw, u have 19% to hit on both streets, and 35% to complete after flop. So those %s along w implied dictates whether Im calling or folding.
U decide to bet $40 on turn, and he calls again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveAction
Back to the hand; there is about $170 in the pot and Fred and I are heads-up to the river as I am, inwardly, beating myself up for getting into another bad spot, semi-bluffing OOP, when Melissa serves up the most exquisite 9c mine eyes ever have seen! I can't believe it! Ding-dong! Ring the bell, bitches...we have a winner!!!
How much will Fred call, I wonder? I'm not sure how much the club bothered Fred. Considering my post-flop action, I don't think he has me on the flush. He's probably got me on an Ace or two-pair, I don't think he puts me on bluffing. I'm pretty sure he thinks that I flopped my hand and, with that in mind, and; now that the club has hit the river, I don't think Fred will be willing to call much unless he is holding two-pair, a set, or a smaller flush.
I decide not to get greedy and I lead out a microscopic bet of $30 (the same as I had intended to bet on a brick) into a pot containing $170, bringing the total pot to $200. Action is on Fred.
(Your thoughts on this? At less than 1/5 pot, it's a very small, begging for a call, raise. My thinking here is that, with only around $160 left behind, a raise that may cost Fred more than 50% of his stack, may induce him to fold.
I figured that he had to call the $30 with top-pair or better, even with the club hitting the river. Although a raise of $50 would have probably been just as likely to get paid off. I'm not very good at deciding these things...rookie...
Anyway, Fred hesitates for a moment, before stacking all of his chips into a single a tower and shoving them into the middle. Holy cow!!! He shipped it on me!!! Woot!!! He must have been on that Qc8c.
I snap call and turn over the nuts.
Fred turns over...AdJh...wtf?!?
And I thought that I was the one who played that hand horribly wrong! Holy moly! What a fish! Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one, if you've got 'em. Where did I go wrong? What could I have done that may have been a better play?
Insert criticism below...
PS...sorry for not using to cool suit icons. I'm working from a mobile device and couldn't figure out the interface. As I stated before; Weak. Pathetic. Generally suck. Sounds vaguely familiar...
$30 does set up Villain to put n a raise, but I prob bet more on river like $80 if I used ur line leading up to river ($30on flop, $40 on turn). U seemed to play it right tho, because u got Freddy boy to ship it right into ur NUTS! My biggest advice to anyone playing 1/2nlhe is just trying to stay out of bad spots. There r way too many easy spots in this 1/2nlhe game that players will pay u off. No need to be putting yourself in tough spots. Nice dub up on the hand. Take my criticism for what it’s worth. Everyone plays differently, and my ways aren’t always correct. U dubbed up, so hard to argue w that.
U seem to b thinking about situations, players, dynamics, variables, and those are all important factors to getting better. Keep thinking, and reviewing; and u will go from self proclaimed “rookie” to veteran n no time. GL GL GL
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08-31-2013 , 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry
A SLIGHT CHANGE TO CHALLENGE GUIDELINE REQUEST: First off, I been thinking about this change for the last couple of months deciding whether or not I shd implement it. I wd like to bring it to your attention to c what you think. Your feedback/advice is greatly appreciated. The slight change I am requesting regards ONLY to the tourney guideline of…“not to exceed $5K of tourney buyins” rule . Right now, per $40K challenge requirements, it says I will spend/invest no more than $5K worth of tournaments. I am asking to change this to: “Play any amount of Tournaments, BUT not exceed -$5K in TOURNAMENT EARNINGS. The difference is… instead of counting $5K WORTH OF BUYINS(original guideline), I am now relying/focusing on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS (new guideline). If my TOURNAMENT EARNINGS hit -$5K at any point; then no more tournaments the rest of the year. If I hit a score that puts me in the Tournament black, then I can continue to play tourneys until I reach-$5K in the red. I really wd like to transition into more Tourneys next year, and with this slight change I can get a head start on that. This wd allow me to play more tournaments this fall as long as I don’t go $5K in the red. So to be clear…if looking above at my current Tourney Updates: instead of focusing on TOTAL BUYINS (-$3,075), with the new change… now wd b focusing on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS (-$2,375). With the old format/guideline I wd have $2,925 left for T buyins. New format/guideline I hv a changing variable based on TOURNAMENT EARNINGS, and currently w new format/guideline hv $3,625 in play for T buys. Why the change? If I run gd at any circuit stop I don’t want to quit playing Ts just because I hit the $5K buy-n mark. Also if run gd early in any WSOP stop (HCO or HSI) I wd hate to gv up on trying to be a Casino Champion.
My next tournament is Sept 20th event 2 WSOP Cincy, and if I cash I wd like to keep playing Ts as long as my TOURNAMENT EARNINGS don’t reach $5K in the red. If it does get to $5K red, then I’d be done w Ts for the year no question! With the slight change, this still means the most I could lose/subtract from my annual cash game totals wd b -$5K. I’m leaving this slight change up for discussion. It only seems fair. U kind folks have stuck w me and my $40K guidelines from the jump, so if u don’t want me to make this change let me know! If u wd like to c me fire a few more bullets on Ts w new guideline, then let me know as well. Your feedback/advice matters to me! Is this wise? Responsible BR management? Thoughts?
God Bless
I like the change. You can still easily make $35,000 cash games, and worse case scenario $5,000 loser on tournaments = $30,000 overall. I know it's not reaching your goal, but still pretty good for 30hours a week.
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08-31-2013 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry
K. Thoughts of moving seats. I will move if Im going to b to the left of a player who straddles often. I hate wasting $1 and $2 on my blinds, and being utg a lot preflop because of him straddling many hands dealt. I wd like to be in the middle or a few to his right of this player. I don’t believe moving into a “hot seat”. Just because player X wins in that seat, doesn’t mean player Y will. It’s absurd! I agree w u that HSI hv sm seats (table 7 seat 2,3) that are really cold from where the air conditioning vents r placed. Sure if u r uncomfortable, I wd say move. But I guess u hv to weigh the opportunity cost of moving for comfort Vs. gd poker seat in that case. HSI is so miserably cold, and I have left early many days because of it being so intolerable! Yes I also agree w u that it is gd to move to b on left of a loose guy, but if oop u can use that to ur advantage as well w mayb sm more ch/raising. When I take my seat, I try to sit to the left of big stacks, and thinking players. In closing, I don’t c moving seats within a session that big of deal.

First off, my thoughts on dealers peeking at muck cards- don’t like it.
Since u r asking for criticism I’ll gv u my thoughts…The Kc2c I’m not too wild about playing this hand on a $10 straddle oop, but it is only $8 to u on the bb. If ur read is that he’s not going to raise his straddle, I guess u can make a case for calling. Luckily he didn’t raise his straddle. If it was Ac2c instead of Kc2c it wd b an easier decision. If ace hits u can tread lightly, and if clubs come ur drawing to nuts, and u also straight possibilities. Kc2c is vulnerable a lot of times. I try not to put myself in bad spots when playing nhle, and this kind of hand gears up that way. With that said, u happened to get a decent flop w ur hand. Plus w ur image leading up to this hand has been perceived by table as playing selectively. So like u said, u can play ur “perceived image” accordingly w this hand. I wd b n a pickle though if the flop came K 9 7 rainbow and u check and player bets $20, or u bet and get called? Then if turn is any card that’s not a 2 or ace, and facing another ($30ish) bet, it just puts u n a very bad spot where u can only beat bluffs most of time. Especially in 1/2nhle there is no need to put urself n bad spots. There r so many gd spots that people will pay u off.

I like u leading out on this flop, I prob wd hv lead out 2/3 pot ($20) instead. Leading on draws in 1/2 usually gets u paid if they hit. Ur lead also can represent a made hand, so like it. $20 is prob better for pot control. Once u get called on the flop, u have to put Villain on a big ace. W ur $30 pot size bet, I doubt he is calling w draws. So u can assume once ur $30 flop bet is called, he has a big Ace. Fred did call the $10 straddle in utg+1, so u have to narrow his range to pairs, and holdings like KJ suited, KQ suited, A10off+

U say Fred flats ur flop bet quite easily, so this narrow his range to a big Ace for sure (A10 or better), or flop set especially coming in from UTG+1 for a $10straddle pf. U also mentioned u don’t hv much info on the player except for the cooler Q8 he was involved in. I wd b worried after he calls pot size flop bet, and instead of betting turn, I may ch/call if getting a gd price to hit ur draw. Some occasions I may even ch/raise all in on turn, but this Fred guy seems pretty strong and ch/raise cd b very risky… so prob wdnt do it here in this spot w ole Freddie boy. Prob go w ch on turn and hope it gets checked behing. If it does then u can bluff river if clubs don’t show up. If u check turn, u can call if getting a gd price, or wave white flag and ch/fold if priced out. W ur flush draw, u have 19% to hit on both streets, and 35% to complete after flop. So those %s along w implied dictates whether Im calling or folding.
U decide to bet $40 on turn, and he calls again.

$30 does set up Villain to put n a raise, but I prob bet more on river like $80 if I used ur line leading up to river ($30on flop, $40 on turn). U seemed to play it right tho, because u got Freddy boy to ship it right into ur NUTS! My biggest advice to anyone playing 1/2nlhe is just trying to stay out of bad spots. There r way too many easy spots in this 1/2nlhe game that players will pay u off. No need to be putting yourself in tough spots. Nice dub up on the hand. Take my criticism for what it’s worth. Everyone plays differently, and my ways aren’t always correct. U dubbed up, so hard to argue w that.
U seem to b thinking about situations, players, dynamics, variables, and those are all important factors to getting better. Keep thinking, and reviewing; and u will go from self proclaimed “rookie” to veteran n no time. GL GL GL


Thanks for taking the time to comment, bro. You are right about Kc2c being a hand that I should have passed on. Sometimes, I get bored with the game and when this happens, I am prone to come in more than just a little wide in hopes of stealing the pot if I whiff. Lack of discipline. No need to do that in 1/2NLHE @ the Shoe. Shouldn't have gotten involved in that one, even for trying to run one through on a bluff; it's not a very good spot.

Unfortunately, I did get involved and took an overly committed line on the flop. The initial large bet put me in a tricky spot when the club didn't come right away on the turn. I feel that checking the turn is basically the equivalent of surrender, unless I am prepared to ch/raise with Kc2c and, no, I'm not prepared to do that. Perhaps a ch/raise would have been a better play, but in this instance, I would have been ch/raising into top-two so, I've got to believe that Fred ships it on me or snap-calls if I ship.

What baffles me is why Fred didn't three-bet my turn bet of $40. At that point, there was $130 in the pot and he flats $40 after turning top-two with a possible flush draw looming to crack his hand. I think I would have had to have raised it up to $140 or so, rather than flatting my $40 bet. If Fred puts $100 on top for me to see the river, I would def have folded. Actually, if Fred had three-bet me on any street, I would have mucked without giving it a second thought. I can't believe that he just called until I made the nuts and then shipped it on me. That is the way Fred was playing though, very passively.

What I have learned from this is that I need to be more disciplined and selective when choosing my spots to make a run at a pot with hopeful rags. I was lucky in the way this hand played out and in that Fred never raised me off of my draw as I think he easily should/could have done.

Hope to see you soon, bro. Thanks for the advice and words of encouragement.

Anyone else out there with words of wisdom for a noob, I'm all ears.
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09-01-2013 , 12:09 PM
Hey liveaction I too like the check call on turn depending on his bet. I agree with most of butterflys~except mite even check call flop too. Don't understand why he raised all in on river. Wtf!? He is only getting called by a better hand. That is why I would have bet more on river too~$100 bet. Most players wouldn't play his hand like he did.~fish

Hey butterfly my friend who plays a lot at Elizabeth horseshoe said you have won 5 main event seats to the circuit there!!! True or rumors?? Happy for you if true, and feel free to hook a bro up! Sup?
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09-05-2013 , 02:13 PM
The last few days I have been in Cincy for a couple different reasons: 1) try to score a wsop seat (high hand draws at 5am,9am,2pm,5pm,9pm- or win a daily tournament) , and 2) get acclimated to the room before the upcoming tourneys.
I left my house 3 in the morning in hopes of getting a higher percentage chance on the 5am drawing (although surprisingly the 9am had just 2). I fig the 5am drawing wd only have a couple of tables going, which wd give me a 50% of HCO drawing my table, and a 11% of winning (mayb higher if shorthanded) high hand. So check this…I get there at 4:40am and 3 tables r going w open seats. The lady escorts me to the table 29 and guides me to seat 7. I then noticed 2 seats open at the table, and asked if seat 5 is available… I took the middle seat. So now I’m placed in the middle of the action ready to start the long grind ahead. My seat was directly 5’ in front of the flat screen TV, trimmed out w an embellishing wooden frame, hanging on the altitudinous walls. With the extremely long session I was planning, it was a great view to watch sports all day long… the much awaited 5am drawing arrives…lady picks out a number from the bucket… and the guy on the mic says taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaable twennnnnnnnty nine. Yes!!! The early arrival went as planned…and my table was chosen! Now let’s win this high hand…the player in seat 1 modestly says “I will have to be dealt out because I already won a seat through a tournament.” In my mind, I said… “Sweet! It’s getting even better”…”my odds went from 9:1 (11%) to 8:1 (12.5%) to win this WSOP seat.” The dealer face ups one card to each of the players… I see a few low cards in the early seats, and then seat 4 gets a nice Q ball… AND NOW the world stops as the dealer gets ready to hopefully deal me right into the WSOP main event. She turns over a…wait for it…wait for it…wait for it sm more… and it’s a pathetic/uneventful/demoralizing 9. Ugh!! Soooooooooo.. Who wins the wsop seat?...BOOM! seat 7 gets the ACE! ………….the same seat 7 the kind lady escorted me to when I first got there. I was on “wrong open seat tilt” for the next couple of hours…The kind lady could have been my angel!
A Tournament Played: Tuesday-I thought about playing the $110 daily to try to take it down and win a WSOP seat on top. As usual, I did the rake/math and noticed the $110 dailys rake 27%, and the $210 dailys rake 21%. So I decided to wait for Wednesday to get a little more bang for my buck. One last shot to win this WSOP main event seat before heading home. I bought into the Wednesday $210 daily T (w a wsop main seat added). The Wed had 32ish total players- payouts were: 1st) $2,500ish plus wsop seat. 2nd)$1,500ish. 3rd)$1,100ish. I battled through the field and made my way to the final table. Started final table w 20bigs, and during the first level of the final table I nearly doubled it to 40bigs. W 8 players left, 40bbs, I had a real nice look at it. W 7 players left, I played a blind versus blind hand horribly that took me from 32ish bigs to 15bbs. Just one hand played wrong can crush hopes and dreams… I finished an aggravating 5th place. My famous last hand was-folded to me otb w KJ off (15bbs)- I raise 11bbs, sb folds, lb (chip leader) is all in w 88, of course I call. He flops an 8 and I was drawing after the turn. #thedoublebubbleboy
Cincy totals: +$588 -$149, +$403 totaling 31 hrs played in cash. -$210 on Tournament 5 hrs played (currently a big negative -$2,585 on tourneys).
My Random Thoughts of HCO: saw a lot of familiar faces at HCO which explained why 2/5 doesn’t run at HSI anymore, poker room has a nice modern layout w a bit of old school décor (oxymoron?), dealers r comparable w HSI (some greats ones and a few subpar), comfortable quality leather chairs w seat lifts, enjoy the foot rest bars under the tables and the built in cup holders on the rail, the suits seem to run the room pretty gd, like the bathrooms being close by, like that the cashier cage is inside the poker room, it was good to c the high limit tables in the back of room elevated and isolated from the rest, when entering HCO they let me bring n my outside drinks (no policy against-I’m assuming), pit will b glad to charge phones w their charging station under their desk, parking was convenient and just a short walk from parking garage to casino, I like that the poker room is close to the casino entrance, like u can buy chips at the table, I really like the lighting and those sweet looking square fixtures that suspend from the ceiling, love the small face cards, …indifferent w hole cards being the betting line (seemed pretty equivalent w-forward motion)…the 1/2 plays smaller than what I’m used too but seems to hv more rec players-which is gd,… …not a fan of no fountain drink dispensers available-have to get drinks only through a server, not a fan of not being able to c the “list of interest” from the poker table, not a fan of 200max buyn on 1/2 and 500max on 2/5 (they did hv a 5-5nlhe 6max w $1000max buyn running)
Looking forward to returning in a couple weeks for WSOP
Gonna take a couple days off…I’m burnt out a bit from 36 total hrs in last few days, and also experiencing slight tourney tilt.
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09-05-2013 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23straight
Hey liveaction I too like the check call on turn depending on his bet. I agree with most of butterflys~except mite even check call flop too. Don't understand why he raised all in on river. Wtf!? He is only getting called by a better hand. That is why I would have bet more on river too~$100 bet. Most players wouldn't play his hand like he did.~fish

Hey butterfly my friend who plays a lot at Elizabeth horseshoe said you have won 5 main event seats to the circuit there!!! True or rumors?? Happy for you if true, and feel free to hook a bro up! Sup?


I have 6 of them, and all of them were bought for a total of $6,055. It wd hv been nice to win one, but no luck. I plan using one, and selling the rest for a slight profit. Poker can b a grind, so I have to make some side $ whenever I see the opportunity. Since these r transferable Im going to try to sell them for $1550 ($125 discount into HSI wsop main event). For anyone on 2+2, I will sell for $1500. As far as the $40K challenge guideline... I plan on the main event being a free roll for me, and excess profits from the sells of wsop seats NOT be included in ANY $40K totals.
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09-05-2013 , 02:54 PM
Not a bad price for the ticket. If I was gonna be in town for the tourney I would likely get one.
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09-05-2013 , 03:09 PM
Cool. i guess if anyone is interested then DM me and i can meet u at HSI whenever convient for u to transfer over.
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09-06-2013 , 12:04 AM
how were you able to buy those? i was under the impression that none of the seats they are giving away were transferable
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09-06-2013 , 01:28 AM
Butterfly, I'd really like to read your posts, but they're unreadable. Would it be possible to write like a grown-up?
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09-06-2013 , 01:36 AM
What tracker do you prefer to organize sessions with?
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09-06-2013 , 05:26 AM
oops nevermind didn't realize those were for HSI
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09-06-2013 , 10:25 AM
@nutsflo0pper thanks. I'll work on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidOnTilt
What tracker do you prefer to organize sessions with?
I use an app on my Iphone called Poker Journal. I think it cost me around $12(one time fee) after the free trial expired. It easily breaks down all the poker data in a simple format. The tracker can also filter sessions by time frames (weeks, months, quarterly, certain days of week, certain hours of the day, etc., etc.), or by limits (1/2, 2/5, PLO, Razz, etc.), or locations (HSI, HCO, HH), and etc. etc. It simply separates all tourney data from cash, and w one click can also combine the 2 totals. There is also a place to add notes on sessions, and players. The Poker Journal app is user friendly, and I would recommend it to anyone seeking a tracker.

Holy Moly! I had to reread this post 7 times, and make sure all grammar/punctuation is correct. I tried really hard on this post to make it readable. I'm quite certain though, I still came up short. The over/under is 7 "little boy" errors. I will be taking the over on this post (and every post after this one). Professor Nutsflo0per, will you let us know how many "little boy" errors I have? I desperately want to be "grown up" status before the end of year!
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09-06-2013 , 10:50 AM
Much better, thanks.

I give you a B+!
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09-06-2013 , 10:52 AM
Totally saw you on Tuesday, yet didn't think it was you because I thought, "Why would he be up here in Cincinnati?"
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