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Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

View Poll Results: SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IS A REALISTIC ANNUAL EARNING OF AN "A" PLAYER GRINDING $1/$2NLHE?
LESS THAN $22K 269 12.82%
$22K TO $28K 337 16.06%
$28K TO $34K 362 17.25%
$34K TO $40K 344 16.39%
$40K TO $46K 189 9.00%
MORE THAN $46K 598 28.49%
Voters: 2099. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-09-2013, 01:50 AM   #26
GutPunch
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Good luck. The shoe is a great place to play. I hope you can stay honest and update this thread regularly because it will be super interesting to follow your results
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:59 AM   #27
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Man. Sounds awful. GL tho

2 deaths a year on that highway makes it the most dangerous in the state?
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:24 PM   #28
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

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Originally Posted by p2 dog, p2 View Post
Man. Sounds awful. GL tho

2 deaths a year on that highway makes it the most dangerous in the state?
My bad, I should of said... It is the most dangerous ten mile stretch of any road in the state. From downton New Albany to the small country town of Elizabeth where the Hosreshoe resides is very dangerous! It's a 2 lane road with lots of cars speeding, passing, and drinking! If I was a betting man, I would take the over. 2.5 seems like a better line though. Tip on drivng the road: Be cautious, and use IPDE (identify, predict, decide, execute).

Challenge Update.
Blah, blah, and blah. Nothing exciting to report. I had a 4 day small win streak come to an end today with a $230 loss. It all came on 1 hand that I played very badly!! I would like to share the hand with you all, so you guys can call me a donkey. I should of let this hand go on flop, maybe turn. I am playing 8 handed 1/2nlhe, I make it $10 in middle position, it folds to the sb who rasies to $30. I call with QQ. Heads up with stack sizes of$231, and I have $270. The flop is 247 and He bets $85. After tanking, I call. The turn is 4 and He shooves the rest of his stack for $116, and I make the call. I see his AA. River is K I lose, and made some costly mistakes!!
I like the $30call pf with the intentions of treading lightly from there. I had position, but I felt my hand could be behind. First of all, the opponent is a solid player, and would just call $10 with hands like AK, and pairs of 10s and lower. I am only gettting raised from the small blind here with AA,KK,QQ, and maybe JJ from this particular player. Once he leads out with a $85bet (more than pot and half his stack) after the flop, I know the rest of his money is going in on the turn, and I should let it go. I dont even have a . Part of me is hoping he has JJ (maybe w a diamond) here and thats why I call. But after thinking more about it I should of known better. Getting this far invested on a hand that I wasn't sure about is not worth the risk. I can find a lot better spots! It has been a long time since I played a hand that badly. What makes it worse for me is that I just read a great article on Advanced Thinking and Hand Ranges on Pokerpages 3 days ago, and I should of realized his hand range here is usually AA, KK, and maybe QQ, and JJ is doubtful.

What a bad 2 days... I tore my shoulder doing bench press yesterday morning, and made a $230 mistake today.

Challenge Update So far 2013 totals are: +$551 in 35hrs. = $15/hr. That one hand today brought down my hourly from $22 to $15!
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:27 PM   #29
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

I am definitely going broke on this hand too! but I learned a lot after reading your insight. now maybe next time i can fold when this situation plays out. Thnks for the tips, and go get em'! Keep your head up, it's a long year.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:35 PM   #30
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Really villain and stack size dependent but I might 4bet a small amount with QQ at 1/2. If villain 5bets you can get away easy if your 4 bet is small enough.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #31
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Agree with bmess..love the updates tho gl
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:42 PM   #32
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

He had the nuts for sure, it's Live
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:01 AM   #33
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Agree, and the 4bet small and fold to a 5bet isnt a bad play. But instead of 4 betting and wasting more money, I think im more of a fan of flatting and hoping to hit a gd flop. If a bad flop comes with overs, or if faced with a big bet on flop i can fold. This wasn't necessarily a gd flop, and ima idiot for not folding to a $85 flop bet. This is unacceptable!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:09 PM   #34
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

You mentioned that you will spend no more than $5,000 this year on tourneys. any idea when your first tourney be played? and how do you select the tournaments you play in? See you soon at the tables.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:19 PM   #35
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

I enjoy playing tournaments that have good value, good structure, guarantees, and ones w less than 20% rake. I would love to play the daily tournaments at my home casino, but I did the math on those and they are raking 33% of the prize pool. A tournament that sparks my interest is the Chicago Poker Classic next month. I plan on playing their $350nlhe $1M Guarantee event1. In March, HSI will be hosting the Midwest Poker Championships, and I intend on playing the $760 main event. After that not sure.
Best of luck to u@callygal
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:52 PM   #36
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

HSI is my "home" casino and i definitely agree 1/2 plays more like 1/3 even 2/5 games I have played in, with the usual $5 straddle and $15-20 pre flop raise (lol @ 10x raise pre but it happens often enough here) 300 max can even feel short. (DID NOT KNOW you could buy in for half the big stacks chips!!! That is AWESOME news!) I'm very excited for your goal and outside of the pots we may play together , wish you all the best.

It is sad to hear how terrible the rake on the daily tournaments are @ HSI, i have played a few and didnt realize it was that bad. I was wondering if you know more abt the tournaments at hollywood and how bad/?good? their rake is?
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:05 PM   #37
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry View Post
I enjoy playing tournaments that have good value, good structure, guarantees, and ones w less than 20% rake. I would love to play the daily tournaments at my home casino, but I did the math on those and they are raking 33% of the prize pool. A tournament that sparks my interest is the Chicago Poker Classic next month. I plan on playing their $350nlhe $1M Guarantee event1. In March, HSI will be hosting the Midwest Poker Championships, and I intend on playing the $760 main event. After that not sure.
Best of luck to u@callygal
They do a good job of promoting the Chicago Poker Classic and it also improves the cash game action as well.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:27 AM   #38
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJimm502 View Post
It is sad to hear how terrible the rake on the daily tournaments are @ HSI, i have played a few and didnt realize it was that bad. I was wondering if you know more abt the tournaments at hollywood and how bad/?good? their rake is?
Not quite sure about their daily tournaments. The HPO wasnt bad.
It amazes me how no one seems to care about the rake anymore. It seems to get higher each year on the WSOP circuit events. It may be only a $5 or $10 increase on the $365 and $580 buyins, but it adds up to thousands of $ out of the prize pools. For example, event 1 at Hammond had 2500 entries, multiply that by a $10 increase on buyin = $25,000 taking from the prize pool! Without the increase, those who cash would get paid more. It can b dispersed any way u want. Maybe instead of 40 players getting a min cash, these 40 players could get an extra $625 on top! I remember the $365 events they have now used to be $340 back in the day. Just during my short poker career it has raised by $25. And the math on that using the same Hammond event1 model = $62,500 taking from prize pool!
All of this is another day, another topic. I'm stepping down from the pedestal.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:12 PM   #39
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Well, I don't think you have much of a chance with the $5+$1 rake (or $6+$1 at Hollywood), if you can't hit a Bad Beat or some decent tourney cashes.

I am interested to see how you will do.

How big is your bankroll right now? Seems like you (anyone) could definitely have a few thousand negative swing. Will this be absorbed by your existing roll, or is your rental income sizeable enough to take care of you if you only break even at poker?
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:19 PM   #40
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by indyillini View Post
How big is your bankroll right now? Seems like you (anyone) could definitely have a few thousand negative swing. Will this be absorbed by your existing roll, or is your rental income sizeable enough to take care of you if you only break even at poker?
To help handle the swings, I like to have a bankroll of at least 30 buy ins before I move up in stakes. For instance, a $2/5nlhe game w $1000 cap, I wd like to have $30k (30x1000cap) br before playing. My personal opinion is a game is too big for ya, if you dont have at least a 30 buy in bankroll. This really takes the stress off the swings. If you want to play it more conservatively, then mayb a 40 buy in br. A few years ago when I was playing higher I had a br of 100k, but I then decided to buy a few properties w that money. That totally deflated my bankroll! To answer your first question, my current br is $20k. So nothing higher than 1/3 w $500 cap (30x500cap=15K) is suitable right now for my current bankroll. Hopefully after this challenge is completed, I will be able to move back up to 2/5, or 5/10. Or on the flip side, I can use the higher br to pay down some properties and continue grinding 1/2. Once I get the rentals paid off, my cash flow income doubles from 15k to 30k/yr.
To answer your second question, the negative swings will be absorbed by the current br. The rental income = $1300/mo., which helps pay the bills, and eases the roller coaster life of a poker player. This can be a sick brutal game!

Thanks and gd luck to u indyillini

Update $1107 @ 66hrs. = $17/hr.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:06 PM   #41
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

TIME FOR A POLL REVIEW (listed at the top of thread)

Objective for poll: To find the realistic annual earning of a solid "A" player grinding$1/$2nlhe.

Early Observations: -After looking over the early data (48 votes) in the poll, it looks like the majority (60%) of the poker population believe less than $34k annually is realistic for a 1/2nlhe grinder.

-Exactly Half of those voted say <$28k/yr, and the other half that voted say >$28k/yr.

-$28k seems to be the magic number!

Early Conclusion: -What the poker population is telling me, from the small sample (48votes), $28k/yr is the realistic earning of 1/2nlhe grinder.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:14 PM   #42
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry View Post
TIME FOR A POLL REVIEW (listed at the top of thread)

Objective for poll: To find the realistic annual earning of a solid "A" player grinding$1/$2nlhe.

Early Observations: -After looking over the early data (48 votes) in the poll, it looks like the majority (60%) of the poker population believe less than $34k annually is realistic for a 1/2nlhe grinder.

-Exactly Half of those voted say <$28k/yr, and the other half that voted say >$28k/yr.

-$28k seems to be the magic number!

Early Conclusion: -What the poker population is telling me, from the small sample (48votes), $28k/yr is the realistic earning of 1/2nlhe grinder.
A solid player should be able to beat 200nl for 10 bigs an hour. So if playing 40 hours a week, that's 40k a year.

This poll question is obviously dependent on how many hours your playing a week. $20 an hour is no sweat for decent, solid players.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:01 PM   #43
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

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Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry View Post
A few years ago when I was playing higher I had a br of 100k, but I then decided to buy a few properties w that money. That totally deflated my bankroll! .
If you could go back in time would you buy those properties again or continue making good money playing poker with a legit roll?
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:44 PM   #44
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

GL/subscribed
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:11 AM   #45
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterflySymmetry View Post
I understand $24/hr is high win rate for $1/2, but these $1/2 games are playing bigger than the norm. I played today and won $321 in 6 hrs (to bad it didn't qualify for this challenge). Please note that max buy in is $300 UP to half the big stack. Today I bought in for $400 because big stack was $800 at the time. Also adding the fact that people are straddling for $5 or more regularly, it is playing similiar to a $1/3 ($500 max buyin).
Thanks for comments.

Ready for this to start tomorrow! Might b playing w/headache. Damn NYE.
I am a 1-2 semi-reg at the HSI and can vouch that the games play alot bigger than an avg 1-2, particularly on weekends. Said it in another thread, but god bless 1-2 at the Horseshoe, best game within 200 miles.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:26 AM   #46
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Man2 View Post
If you could go back in time would you buy those properties again or continue making good money playing poker with a legit roll?
Hey great question. So good it's hard to answer in short, so I apologize in advance for the lengthy response.
One thing I hate about poker is losing. As the stakes gets higher, the losing pain hurts more for me. Just a couple weeks ago I played a hand like a complete imbecile, and I still beat myself up over the $230 loss. That was just midstakes, and when it becomes high stakes those losses sting exponentially more!
Eventhough I was always properly rolled for the high stakes games I played, I could never get used to losing big amounts. When poker is your only source of income, a losing working day hurts! And it hurts even more when your family counts on you to provide. With that said, a losing high stakes session was a miserable feeling that would sometime stay with me for days, or even weeks. The bigger the losing sesh, the longer it would stay with me. It wouldn't be out of the norm for me to think about a certain hand, or a losing sesh for maybe an entire month! This definitely wasn't healthy behavior! Living day to day thinking about a particular hand that cost me lots of money would make my days long, stressful, miserable, and mentally taxing. Therefore, I always knew I needed something to take the pressure off the grind, and the fatigue from my mind. Yes perhaps, I could of continued to play big, build a bigger bank roll, play higher, and maybe have more than I do now. But for me its about living in zen, and being happy. I truly believe if I continued to play those stakes regularly that I would be stressed out of my mind, and not as wholesome/happy. So 6 years ago I started buying investment property with the intention of one day not having to rely as much on my poker income. So as I bought more property, I dropped down in stakes to suit my roll. The decision to use my roll for long term investment opportunities was a slower melodic path to bliss. Thus resulting in more harmony in my life, which is good when you have a family. Right now poker makes up 70% of my income and rentals 30%. In the future as properties get paid off, those numbers will flip. The tough decision I made 6 years ago will at some point allow me to cut back my poker hours, relax more, collect the rent money, and live in zen.
I'll never forget the time playing big online where I took a bad beat for lots of money, and I punched my labtop. Not only did I lose thousands on the hand, but also another thousand on my Dell. I dont miss those stressful days at all. Sure, I will prob play big again, but the next go around it wont be my sole source of income, which will make the big losses a little more tolerable.
To answer your question- "If I went back in time would I do the same thing with my roll?" My answer is yes

thanks and GD luck Silver_Man2

Update: on pace for a $2500 month. No big scores so far, and could use one for a boost.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:45 PM   #47
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

One thing I been doing lately is discussing hands with other respected poker friends. I've never done this before in my career, for the sake I always thought it would mess up my game. In the past, when poker was easier, I felt I had a game that I didn't want to tweak, or mess with. But now as poker is changing there are so many other factors (ranges,bet sizes,lines taken,fold equity,ev,etc.) thats worthy of dicsussion that wasn't as necessary back in the day. I'm trying to stay ahead of the game while having a happy game balance of old school poker/new school poker. When I started 10 years ago I would show up to the poker room and collect money. But as Holdem' is evolving it is getting more difficult to win. Now to be a successful poker player it's almost coming down to the finer details of the game, or maybe just one or two big hands. With that said, I am fortunate now to have some well respected poker friends to talk strategy with. At this point in my career, I feel it is valueable for my long term success. In addition, I also appreciate the feedback from the 2+2ers. This all brings me to another losing hand I would like to discuss with you guys. My genius line I took on this hand only ended up with me getting trapped to the tune of $500ish.
My team (#1 UofL) is about to tip off with #6 Syracuse, then I'm heading to Church for my soul to be uplifted, so I will get to this hand later tonight. I am interested to see if this was just a bad luck hand, or if I could of done something differently.
You won't find me discussing a lot of winning hands on here, those hands dont stir me emotionally, or stimulate me mentally like a losing hand does.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:10 PM   #48
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Gd sports day yesterday - UofL = bad beat, Butler = one outer on river, Djokovic = heads up marathon match.
So the hand I would like to share takes place in a 9 handed $1/2nlhe @ the shoe. What I been noticing in this game is a $7-$25 straddle each hand by the same player known as "AllState" in the poker room. He is a weekend gambler who likes to throw money around. He bluffs more than a fat kid eats cake, and plays every hand unless he is paying for his beer. He is great for the game, and also a truly a nice fellow. In the game, I been watching him the last 3 hours play more wreckless than Lindsay Lohan after an 8 ball. He will always get paid off from players when he sneaks in his 2 pairs with his J/4off randoms, but also bets the same way with air. He loves to try to bully players off pots, and has a good time whether he wins or lose. So I been waiting to set the trap w him, collect my paycheck, and clock out. The momemt came where I finally had a hand to do it - QQ in the hijack (HJ) position.
WARNING! The hand could get confusing to follow, and QQ has been my nemesis lately!
AllState is playing $180 and straddles on button for $25, large blind (LB) is playing $500 (I dont have much a read on him as he has only been sitting for 30mins), and he calls. Action gets folded over to me sitting w $650 in HJ, and my play is call $25 and let the maniac make his normal raise (75% of the time) on the button straddle. I'm thinking sweet, the plan is working beautifully as he makes it $100 total on his straddle. LB flats, and I now I thinking in my head, "you guys have been officially trapped". So my play is to get heads up with AllState ($80 left at this point), and raise large enough to get LB out of MY POT. I wasn't worried about LB having a better hand due to the fact I thought would he would 3bet if he was holding KK, or AA, and get paid off from AllState, so I put him on JJ or less. With this in mind, I make it $350 total, thinking if AllState is somehow miraculously holding better, then I am only really risking $180 . My bet should also be large enough for LB to fold. I must admit I was a little worried about LB, just because he called in early position from the jump, so he definitely has a hand. How big of a hand is the question. So with my $320 3bet, Large blind would now have to call $220 more to win $600. I'm pretty sure this was a good enough bet for him to fold hands like JJ and less. So of course Allstate calls his remianing $80, and LB now 4bet shooves his whole stack!. Really? Ok. Maybe now I wasn't the only one trying to trap here. The LB set the ultimate trap. How dare you! So he ships his whole stack $500, and now if LB does have KK, or AA i'm not getting a good price to call $180 more. But not having a read, or clue how LB plays, I call. The pot is $541 in the main, and $640 on the side, and it sure would be nice to scoop $1,181 on my "brilliant" plan. They tabled their cards, LB has KK ! Which is gd to take down the side pot. . The main pot was won by AllState holding the big 62off.
After dissecting this hand, I could of done some things differently, maybe just flat, maybe 3bet lighter, or mayb its just bad fortune. I like the line of setting the trap, letting AllState raise, and play for a big pot. But I got 1upd by a bigger trap from LB.
I quess ima donkey, Thoughts?
sidenote: When I got home I took a deck that was already incomplete, and took all the Qs out of it and ripped them up. It was good therapy.

update $1613 @ 85hrs. = $19/hr

Last edited by ButterflySymmetry; 01-20-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:48 PM   #49
CallyGal
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

just fyi, If you play this hand straight forward instead of trap you prob lose way less. i do understand your logic tho. #hindsight2020
i like seeing the updates
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #50
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Re: MY $40k CHALLENGE in 2013, @ INDIANA HORSESHOE GRINDING $1/$2nlhe!

Subscribed! A buddy at horseshoe told me about your challenge I just wanted to say good luck. I play with you often but prefer to stay anonymous. Anyways gd luck and Ill b following. Hope u run gd!
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