Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-09-2018, 10:48 PM   #326
ayebrudda
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by skuzlad View Post
New Video out reviewing day 2!



Let me know what you guys think of the hands.
Bro these hands seem quite aweful/ spewy. Do you do much work with pio?
ayebrudda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 11:23 PM   #327
UpDog
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 285
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

I love you, thank you for the long posts <3

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
UpDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 11:34 PM   #328
skuzlad
journeyman
 
skuzlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 256
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by genghiskan View Post
Thanks for taking the time to write that post on DS.

One of the top 3 posts on 2+2 in the last couple of years. Much appreciate it.
Thanks that means a lot! I hope it helps. But like I said before, its easy to say all these things in theory. Now I need to prove that this stuff works by getting out of the DS. Then I will happily take comments like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
Bro these hands seem quite aweful/ spewy. Do you do much work with pio?
Yes as I said I thought I played really poorly on this day. I honestly don't think any of the plays were really +EV except the 6d5d hand. Even if they werent super bad they would have been very breakeven.

Now I am assuming you ask me if I "work with pio" because it seems like my fundamentals are off. I actually want to take this opportunity to say that this session is a prime example of using "too much Pio". So I overadjusted too much moving up to 500nl i.e. I was balancing way too many bluffs with value. For example the QhTh hand is standard "Pio" hand. However if villain's turn call range in population is extremely strong vs an overbet i.e. they are never folding river then it is probably -EV to bluff the river (in fact the triple with QhTh is breakeven but needed in overall strategy to increase the EV of my triples with value hands).

The problem with pio is that almost any hand can be justified because almost every hand has some frequency in the overall strategy (for balance). Going back to the QhTh hand. In Pio I am supposed to take that exact line with the heart heart QT at ~31% of the time. This is actually quite a relatively high frequency. However I probably do not realise this exact spot/scenario enough to justify whether I am doing it 31% of the time. Therefore we have a sample issue and cannot see if this is "good".

Had I just played my normal 200 nl strategy (which is driven by population analysis - using my database- with minimal Pio work) then I probably wouldn't have taken so many "spewy spots". My friend put it in a great way, I was just taking so many bottom 20% frequency plays that I really didn't need to.

Pio is something that a lot of us probably misuse. I personally misuse pio quite a bit and am working on fixing this study leak. It is better to identify patterns within the output of Pio and use intuition and logic to apply to the tables.

But yes I will take this as a lesson to not overadjust when I move up to 500nl. The next shot I take I will just incorporate my standard 200nl strategy and then slowly adjust as I get used to the pool.
skuzlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:03 AM   #329
meale
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
meale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 7,665
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Definitely overadjusted. Play the same 200z strat and gradually adjust based on differences in the pool. Esp in Zone games, you can get away with murder. This isn't Stars when every reg has 10k hands on you and knows your CO RFI, foldv5bet, and what you ate for breakfast. Pio should give you an understanding of how ranges interact with boards and how certain turns/rivers change things - but you should largely just be playing fairly straight forward and exploit pop tendencies.
meale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:14 AM   #330
ayebrudda
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by skuzlad View Post
Thanks that means a lot! I hope it helps. But like I said before, its easy to say all these things in theory. Now I need to prove that this stuff works by getting out of the DS. Then I will happily take comments like this.



Yes as I said I thought I played really poorly on this day. I honestly don't think any of the plays were really +EV except the 6d5d hand. Even if they werent super bad they would have been very breakeven.

Now I am assuming you ask me if I "work with pio" because it seems like my fundamentals are off. I actually want to take this opportunity to say that this session is a prime example of using "too much Pio". So I overadjusted too much moving up to 500nl i.e. I was balancing way too many bluffs with value. For example the QhTh hand is standard "Pio" hand. However if villain's turn call range in population is extremely strong vs an overbet i.e. they are never folding river then it is probably -EV to bluff the river (in fact the triple with QhTh is breakeven but needed in overall strategy to increase the EV of my triples with value hands).

The problem with pio is that almost any hand can be justified because almost every hand has some frequency in the overall strategy (for balance). Going back to the QhTh hand. In Pio I am supposed to take that exact line with the heart heart QT at ~31% of the time. This is actually quite a relatively high frequency. However I probably do not realise this exact spot/scenario enough to justify whether I am doing it 31% of the time. Therefore we have a sample issue and cannot see if this is "good".

Had I just played my normal 200 nl strategy (which is driven by population analysis - using my database- with minimal Pio work) then I probably wouldn't have taken so many "spewy spots". My friend put it in a great way, I was just taking so many bottom 20% frequency plays that I really didn't need to.

Pio is something that a lot of us probably misuse. I personally misuse pio quite a bit and am working on fixing this study leak. It is better to identify patterns within the output of Pio and use intuition and logic to apply to the tables.

But yes I will take this as a lesson to not overadjust when I move up to 500nl. The next shot I take I will just incorporate my standard 200nl strategy and then slowly adjust as I get used to the pool.
,

Hmm so all of the hands showed in this video are that far away from GTO its not funny. I understand that sometimes PIO can deviate you away from what you may think is an optimal strat. Im more talking about your bet sizing is getting you into bad spots where your just being taken advantage of, I refer to the A7s as an example where villian bet like 1/3 pot and you had awesome odds to call and you fold. You bascially only have QJ here , you need to start thinking about your range more instead of what villian has in their range. Ask yourself what does my range look like here and why is villian betting this sizing.

I refer to the J10 hand when you check jam turn. Ask yourself, what are you check jamming the turn with with a huge SPR that isnt check raising the flop for value? You never have a set, you never have anything but a poorly played J10 off. If he pots the flop you have a cc, agaisnt a 50% pot bet this specific hand is a C/R especially if your going to check jam a turn card that improves your range. If you C/c a hand like j7 and spike 2p on the turn. Are you really check jamming for value here? Villians sizing suggests that you dont really ever have a value hand on the turn and he can size up his value range since you discount all sets and 2p plus on the flop, in actual face the barreling range of villian actually improves on this card not so much yours.

I understand in your previous vids you say you need to find bluffs in most spots, you need to build your range to include bluffs and value hands, dont just decide on a turn card that you have a bluff in range and you will decide to just pump in 80 bbs with basically a capped range.
Just FYI your probably not even going to get a fold from AJ given turn play with J10.

With PIO you need to build your ranges, i see alot of empty strat to your thought processes. I have this in range and he has this in range, ask yourself why and what is this sizing going to accomplish.

Goodluck mate hope you could get something out of that.
ayebrudda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:17 AM   #331
UpDog
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 285
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
,

Hmm so all of the hands showed in this video are that far away from GTO its not funny. I understand that sometimes PIO can deviate you away from what you may think is an optimal strat. Im more talking about your bet sizing is getting you into bad spots where your just being taken advantage of, I refer to the A7s as an example where villian bet like 1/3 pot and you had awesome odds to call and you fold. You bascially only have QJ here , you need to start thinking about your range more instead of what villian has in their range. Ask yourself what does my range look like here and why is villian betting this sizing.

I refer to the J10 hand when you check jam turn. Ask yourself, what are you check jamming the turn with with a huge SPR that isnt check raising the flop for value? You never have a set, you never have anything but a poorly played J10 off. If he pots the flop you have a cc, agaisnt a 50% pot bet this specific hand is a C/R especially if your going to check jam a turn card that improves your range. If you C/c a hand like j7 and spike 2p on the turn. Are you really check jamming for value here? Villians sizing suggests that you dont really ever have a value hand on the turn and he can size up his value range since you discount all sets and 2p plus on the flop, in actual face the barreling range of villian actually improves on this card not so much yours.

I understand in your previous vids you say you need to find bluffs in most spots, you need to build your range to include bluffs and value hands, dont just decide on a turn card that you have a bluff in range and you will decide to just pump in 80 bbs with basically a capped range.
Just FYI your probably not even going to get a fold from AJ given turn play with J10.

With PIO you need to build your ranges, i see alot of empty strat to your thought processes. I have this in range and he has this in range, ask yourself why and what is this sizing going to accomplish.

Goodluck mate hope you could get something out of that.
Thats too advanced, seems like something skuz only needs to worry about once he hits 1knl...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
UpDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:21 AM   #332
ayebrudda
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Also hand where you have a 10x straight and you check back, im probably block betting 90$ into 280 to target 2p and sets.
ayebrudda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:35 AM   #333
skuzlad
journeyman
 
skuzlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 256
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
,

Im more talking about your bet sizing is getting you into bad spots where your just being taken advantage of, I refer to the A7s as an example where villian bet like 1/3 pot and you had awesome odds to call and you fold. You bascially only have QJ here , you need to start thinking about your range more instead of what villian has in their range.
Yea I agree my bet sizes in certain spots are not that great. Something that definitely needs work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
Ask yourself what does my range look like here and why is villian betting this sizing.
Yeah this is something I always do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
I refer to the J10 hand when you check jam turn. Ask yourself, what are you check jamming the turn with with a huge SPR that isnt check raising the flop for value? You never have a set, you never have anything but a poorly played J10 off. If he pots the flop you have a cc, agaisnt a 50% pot bet this specific hand is a C/R especially if your going to check jam a turn card that improves your range. If you C/c a hand like j7 and spike 2p on the turn. Are you really check jamming for value here? Villians sizing suggests that you dont really ever have a value hand on the turn and he can size up his value range since you discount all sets and 2p plus on the flop, in actual face the barreling range of villian actually improves on this card not so much yours.
Yeah totally agree with this. This was 100% my worst played hand. This was my last hand at 500nl because I knew how bad this was. This is tagged as "tilt" in my database.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
I understand in your previous vids you say you need to find bluffs in most spots, you need to build your range to include bluffs and value hands, dont just decide on a turn card that you have a bluff in range and you will decide to just pump in 80 bbs with basically a capped range.
Just FYI your probably not even going to get a fold from AJ given turn play with J10.
Yes I agree with this. Justifying bluffs in certain spots without a coherent on consistent strategy is not GTO (not in the literal sense).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
Goodluck mate hope you could get something out of that.
Thanks for the input. Yeah some of the hands were complete spew and some of the hands were over adjusting. I will keep this in mind moving forward.
skuzlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:38 AM   #334
skuzlad
journeyman
 
skuzlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 256
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
Also hand where you have a 10x straight and you check back, im probably block betting 90$ into 280 to target 2p and sets.
Ok, yes this makes sense. Another spot where I normally thin value but didn't because of lack of confidence.
skuzlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:39 AM   #335
baannii4
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 272
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
Also hand where you have a 10x straight and you check back, im probably block betting 90$ into 280 to target 2p and sets.
hey man how about u use ur insane gto knowledge to print money instead of wasting ur time in this thread
baannii4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:39 AM   #336
mirage01
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,320
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

I see pre flop mistakes leading to post flop mistakes. JTo, Kqo, 56s vs squeeze all should be folded pre imo.
mirage01 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:47 AM   #337
skuzlad
journeyman
 
skuzlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 256
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01 View Post
I see pre flop mistakes leading to post flop mistakes. JTo, Kqo, 56s vs squeeze all should be folded pre imo.
Yeah totally agree with this. Never has "fold Pre" been so true.

I usually play 18/16 - i.e. this doesnt include these hands

Another prime example of trying to overadjust

INB4 brokenstars makes fun of my 18/16
skuzlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 12:58 AM   #338
ayebrudda
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by baannii4 View Post
hey man how about u use ur insane gto knowledge to print money instead of wasting ur time in this thread
Printer ran out of ink. Just having a couple days off whilst the ink comes back. You moving up to 1k or 2k? Might have to upgrade to a laser printer if so.
ayebrudda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 01:06 AM   #339
ayebrudda
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 18
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by skuzlad View Post
Yeah totally agree with this. Never has "fold Pre" been so true.

I usually play 18/16 - i.e. this doesnt include these hands

Another prime example of trying to overadjust

INB4 brokenstars makes fun of my 18/16
You certainly dont play 18/16.
ayebrudda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 01:32 AM   #340
Brokenstars
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Brokenstars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Check out my PGC!!!
Posts: 11,197
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by skuzlad View Post
Yeah totally agree with this. Never has "fold Pre" been so true.

I usually play 18/16 - i.e. this doesnt include these hands

Another prime example of trying to overadjust

INB4 brokenstars makes fun of my 18/16
tight strat at zone is fine, maybe even optimal. I've consistently tightened my ranges since I started from 28/22 down to like 24/20. I still think a lot of hands I play are pretty much breakeven.
Brokenstars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 01:47 AM   #341
mirage01
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,320
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

I worked that out the second day I played there. Anyway. There is no way he plays 18/16 opening 56s utg.
mirage01 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 05:22 AM   #342
pontylad
Master Blaster
 
pontylad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: meh, fr, 6 max or hu?! :S:S
Posts: 8,153
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

I find it weird to patronise op about pio and then start talking about blocker bets.

Also **** folding 56s to any 3 bet ever on ignition.
pontylad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 06:21 AM   #343
baannii4
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 272
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
Printer ran out of ink. Just having a couple days off whilst the ink comes back. You moving up to 1k or 2k? Might have to upgrade to a laser printer if so.
how about u print urself some better sims

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayebrudda View Post
I refer to the A7s as an example where villian bet like 1/3 pot and you had awesome odds to call and you fold. You bascially only have QJ here
omegalul
baannii4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 07:16 AM   #344
NL Loki
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Southern Hemisphere
Posts: 828
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

sup Skuz, u still in syd?
NL Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 07:44 AM   #345
skuzlad
journeyman
 
skuzlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 256
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by NL Loki View Post
sup Skuz, u still in syd?
Yeah mate
skuzlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 01:06 PM   #346
mirage01
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,320
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by pontylad View Post
.

Also **** folding 56s to any 3 bet ever on ignition.
Was a squeeze. You have lots of better hands to flat in that spot.
mirage01 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2018, 11:17 PM   #347
skuzlad
journeyman
 
skuzlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 256
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01 View Post
Was a squeeze. You have lots of better hands to flat in that spot.
I think they were referring to the 65dd on 8dj7d. I defended 3b vs SB
skuzlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 04:13 AM   #348
skuzlad
journeyman
 
skuzlad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 256
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

New Video out today:



Been a bit of a delay in uploading. Tried contacting Ignition to download missed hands on the 3rd of July. However they emailed back today saying its not possible after download period expired. So the graph in my recent video is not 100% accurate.... I think it is missing 2 or 3 losing buyins?

So basically the plan from now is to grind myself out of the downswing. Once I am back to what I started with last week then I will take another shot. Its been super tempting for me to jump back into the 500nl zone pool, particularly in the last few days since it has been very busy. However from a disciplinary approach it would not be smart to do so.

Video structure will go back to normal as I have the tables set up to be recorded nicely.

Update for Weekly Goals:

Forgot to post these



Pretty good in terms of the schedule. Unfortunately did not play any live.

Update on the "Climbing out of Downswing Post" (found on page 13 if you interested)

- No real new updates to the mental strategy. Basically following what I listed and working well. Last few days have been good and climbed quite a bit out of the hole.
-Now that I am partially out I think the next big important step is to not get complacent. Just because there are signs of positivity, does not mean that variance won't come back and fk me.
-Employed note taking again whilst playing which seems to be good.
-Win flips
skuzlad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 05:17 AM   #349
meale
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
meale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 7,665
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

Nice volume.
meale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2018, 05:25 AM   #350
baannii4
journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 272
Re: Skuz's Road to 500nl+ 2018

nice live volume
baannii4 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online