2,7evbb/100

Thanks for your post! Getting good at poker is a long process, and I have leaks like everyone else. Being humble and always curious where you might be making mistakes is very important. During heaters it's very common to think you are suddenly playing much better. You will get 100k+ hand stretches where you run good with bluffs and value, and you will have 100k+ hand stretches where nothing works out for you and you are barely making money or even losing money. Just make sure to review your play with better players or whatever to see if you're actually playing well.

In the 50 zoom games I think it's incredibly rare to find those winrates over a reasonable sample. Bumhunting with a good mix of theoretical and exploitative play can definitely generate you those winrates, but still very rare IMO.

As for me I have no idea what my true winrate in the 50z games is right now. I'm improving all the time but I'm pretty confident I don't have a true winrate of a high single-digit number in the 50z pool, but I might as well have that if I reg table select properly or play on a softer site or apps.

In 2+2 PGC's where you will mostly see bigger samples of 50z-200z players with winrates ranging from 2-7bb/100. I think Seta-Beni is the only PS zoom reg I've seen have ~8evbb/100 or something over a significant sample of ~1mil hands (https://www.runitonce.com/chatter/on...comment-304241). I remember that I've seen a couple 10bb/100+ graphs in zoom but usually it's under 200k hand samples, which definitely is indicative of a good winrate but likely not nearly as high in reality. But yeah, people that really crush the games move up the stakes fast and will never play samples big enough to reveal anything close to a true winrate at any stake. But there are plenty of 100z or 200z pros that play closer to 1mil hands a year that you can look at to get an idea.

Glad you like the thread and GL to you aswell :-)

Pretty good results Ship!

Always have to be careful looking at graphs online, its very easy to fake them and the incentives to do so can be very high (not calling anyone you mentioned fake fwiw). I know from experience it can be quite demoralising grinding thru the stakes seeing all these 5/6bb+ wr but the reality is that zoom wr are low these days.

That's why its good to have a group of poker friends / follow poker players like Bena who give you a realistic idea of variance. Variance can be mental at times, I've had stretches I didnt even think were possible and i'm sure the worst is yet to come.

Thanks Chips! :-)

I mostly just get inspired and motivated by huge winrates in zoom games, especially by confirmed crushers. Would be pretty sad to never see winrates over 3bb/100. I need to see that it's possible to squeeze out significantly higher winrates than I've seen over my samples.

In my 2020 PGC I wrote about "intangible and tangible" skill, and I just get more and more confirmation about intangible skill being the most important thing to be good at the game and managing to be in the game for a long time. Doesn't matter how hard you are able to study theory and exploitative play, if you don't work enough on the intangible stuff like mental game, you will never succeed. Some people might just naturally be very good at it, but the vast majority of people aren't and potential successful careers just end early.

My biggest issue with zoom (and I´m constantly second guessing my decision of playing that format) is how tough it is (not the quality of play of most regs, but how it disincentivizes spew, bc there is almost no need of getting impatient when you can always fast fold, and then the rake comes and destroy any possibility of outplaying the meh regs). The difference between the wr you guys are talking and what even nits are making up to 25nl (reg tables) is just ridiculous.

This has absolutely been the most important thing for me when playing poker. I play just 50z, but the amount of effect that working on my mental game has helped is astronomical. Every decision you make in the game is predicated on an infinite amount of factors; from your knowledge of game theory, your knowledge of your opponent, knowledge of the player pool, all the way down to what you had for breakfast and how many cups of coffee you had before grinding.

It's so important to know why you are making every decision, and for me, it all boils down to mental game. Being in touch with your mindset will lead to better decisions, longer sessions, and great results.

I'm the opposite. I've had to force myself to play more reg tables because it is better for me financially but I truly love the zoom format over any other format. Players spew just as hard if you're patient enough.

Ship, I've been silently following for a while but never posted. Great thread. GL on your journey brother.

Yes I agree, zoom is by far my favourite format. But I´m not sure it is always so clear that regular tables are better - the zoom pools have been pretty soft lately, and getting more hands in is obviously good assuming you are a winning player. Also, at least for me, zoom is better for improving. The lack of reads forces us to try to make more theoretically sound decisions, and improving is not irrelevant to long term winrates

Week 8: I've been stressed/busy with doing stuff related to finding a new job, so volume wasn't as great this week. Still happy with getting over 35k hands for the month.


February:


Another slow month. Counting with end of last year I think the b/e stretch is getting close to 100k hands. It's always a very humbling experience to endure stretches like this one.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I have nothing but respect for people who have been able to make a living from poker for several years. I get that you can be stressed at your day-job, working overtime and not getting a single sale in over a week or whatever. Most of you still get your paycheck, and some get one every month with no real effort other than showing up. In poker you can do everything right but still have months where you get absolutely destroyed and make no money at all. You still have to get back to your monitor(s) every day and keep pushing to maintain and realize your EV. Strangely sitting in front of your monitor(s) isn't enough to make it. The effort you put into making good decisions isn't limited to the timeframe where you buy-in and cash out. Not at all. You need to build a routine around your poker where everything supports your performance at the tables. You have to study, sleep well, eat well, work-out and have a healthy life/poker balance. On top of this many people are forced to meditate, get poker coaching, see a therapists or a mental game coach. It's also a good idea to have a study-group to improve with, or not to feel lonely most days. It's tough and most of this is nothing many people are ready or capable of doing. No sane man became a full-time poker player. Time will tell if I'm sane or not.

You're right. In terms of winrate it's important to find the whales and play a lot of hands vs them. You just don't see a lot of 50+ vpip whales donating at 10z+, that's just a fact.

True. I've mentioned it before in the PGC, but going into autopilot "theory" mode is definitely a problem for me in Zoom, and it's more likely to happen for me if I'm on slight tilt. When you see weaker players, you gotta take advantage of them because there is a limited number of them.

I'll play some more reg tables this year, but likely when I move up to 100nl.

Thanks brother. GL to you aswell :-)

Playing vs some type of weak-strong reg the majority of the time is definitely improving your game. Just not good for the winrate compared to reg tables in general. But I totally get what you're saying, and that's one reason why I play zoom aswell.

Nice update and it's certainly true that your success in poker is far more than just your decisions on the tables. GLGL finding a new job and I'm sure getting settled will help you on the tables.

Obvs just sack in work through and go full time poker

+1

Thanks man :-) Yeah I really have to leave my current employer. I'm unhappy here, like every day. This potential new employer seems really good and the role seems super interesting. Had my last interview yesterday and will get a decision next week. Let's hope for the best, but if it doesn't work out I'll just keep applying.

I must admit playing full-time is a very tempting idea one day. But we'll see where the grind takes me.

GL to you as well mate.

Thanks!

What industry are you in?

GLGLGLGLGL On the job hunt Ship! I like to move around employment wise myself.

I work with business intelligence in a bigger logistics company.

Thanks buddy :-) Mind telling me more about why you like to move around?

but isnt regular tables better for improving at poker cause you learn how to spot see patterns and get opponents money make them part with there cash.
zoom just feels like clicking buttons most of time and hoping weighing it up right risk/reward right and avoiding tilting like the plague, mean theres patterns you can spot pick up on but god it feels more wish washy, whereas regular tables you really hammer a fish pick them apart over the session.
and i thought aslong as you bumhunt regular tables and play vs the fish or people worse than you really well you can kind of ignore the people that have edge on you or you have on them but only slightly just not get involved with them in same way let them exploit you minimise variance and treat it borderline headsup match vs fish and once fish gone your gone cause otherwise just paying lot of rake to eek out few blinds here there then odd spot where theres big hole for lot of blinds which might not pop up in game to regularly so your not going to wait around for it.
maybe i just dont like zoom doesnt feel like the same game at all to me, dynamics gameflows different, only plus is no boredom.

I work for the federal government, so it's relatively easy to move between different federal departments, while still contributing to your pension, and I can basically hunt around for interesting work and slowly move up the positional ladder to earn more.

I'm basically constantly applying to positions to hopefully eventually go as high as I can without getting into management while finding interesting work that is challenging.

Yes for improving exploitative game reg tables are obviously better. And yes, if you are happy at your stake then ignoring the better regs and avoiding them is fine, but there is a long long term winrate in improving your fundamental game and being able to move up. Lets say you win 10bb/100 playing 25nl but over time move up and become a 2.5bb/100 200nl winner your $/100 has now doubled. So in that sense the best way of increasing winrate is geting better, even if you were absolutely crushing the fish at 25nl. And my only point was that zoom is a cleaner way of focusing on and improving your own game. At least for me thats the case.
But I also mix between playing zoom and reg tables

Great work Ship!

I'm loving following the thread and the perspective you're bringing is refreshing and impressive. Gl going forwards - seems like your bound to continue succeeding if you keep following your own advice.

Hey Lewis! I really enjoyed the recent podcast. You're a smart and likeable guy. Thanks a lot mate, I'm trying my best :-) GL in the 100z streets, I'm starting to mix in some 100z tables too so I guess I'll see you there

Week 9: I had a +11BI day this week which was an insane experience considering the year so far. A good reminder of there being positive variance in poker as well.

Week 10: Only had one winning session this week. There was one session this week where I, for the first time this year, felt like I let my game drop to C-game during tilt. I made a couple decisions where I was pretty sure they were mistakes, even before I clicked. Guess I'm a human with emotions after all.

Wtf happened during hand 4.3k, big pot poker?

Lol thanks for asking.


PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.25/$0.50 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG: $50.00 (100 bb)
MP: $50.00 (100 bb)
CO (Hero): $168.28 (337 bb)
BU: $75.38 (151 bb)
SB: $167.32 (335 bb)
BB: $79.97 (160 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with A♣ A♠
2 players fold, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, SB 3-bets to $5.50, 1 fold, Hero 4-bets to $15.50, SB calls $10

Flop: ($31.50) T♥ 2♣ 6♣ (2 players)
SB bets $7.48, Hero calls $7.48

Turn: ($46.46) Q♠ (2 players)
SB bets $33.35, Hero calls $33.35

River: ($113.16) 8♠ (2 players)
SB bets $110.99 (all-in), Hero calls $110.99

Total pot: $335.14 (Rake: $2)

Showdown:
SB shows Q♥ Q♣ (three of a kind, Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 8%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

CO (Hero) shows A♣ A♠ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 82%, Flop: 92%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

SB wins $333.14

Why don't you rathole? That's what I've been doing at 200 and 50 and it's a lot easier to think through decisions. I'm not sure your call is good, but regardless, I think it could help if you started playing only 100bb stacks