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Old 09-14-2017, 03:12 AM   #1
RalphWaldoEmerson
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self reliance -- educating myself in plo

tried to think of sexy thread title but you'll have to settle for this nice corny one.

Decided to learn PLO recently (5 years too late obv) for game selection reasons and thought I'd start a thread to aggregate thoughts of mine, comments of others, and general progress development into something productive and useful for me and hopefully others.

I've been playing poker full time since beginning of 2016 and have done relatively well. Playing mostly 2k on U.S. sites these days. Games can be a bit spotty at times so trying to learn a new game and improve my overall average table quality as well as table count.

This will be an informal and perhaps meandering thread (as I will still be grinding 20-25 hours a week of NLHE) but I'm hoping it will keep me interested and motivated. For those who grind PLO or are interested in learning PLO themselves, welcome and thanks for stopping by . Your contributions are appreciated.




beginning graph lol got bored of micros and moved up to midstakes yeehaw



^tonight haha what do you guys think is the % of PGC threads created after OP has sick night/week/month xD
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:18 AM   #2
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

iPoker - $4 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $451.24 (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 9)
UTG: $608.62 (VPIP: 45.95, PFR: 18.92, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 38)
MP: $194.00 (VPIP: 37.04, PFR: 3.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
Hero (CO): $557.96
BTN: $395.34 (VPIP: 31.03, PFR: 19.83, 3Bet Preflop: 6.38, Hands: 117)
SB: $1,180.74 (VPIP: 19.05, PFR: 9.52, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 42)

SB posts SB $2.00, BB posts BB $4.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $6.00) Hero has A 2 A 7

UTG calls $4.00, fold, Hero raises to $18.00, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $14.00

Flop: ($42.00, 2 players) K 7 2
UTG checks, Hero bets $28.45, UTG calls $28.45

Turn: ($98.90, 2 players) 6
UTG checks, Hero bets $51.93, UTG calls $51.93

River: ($202.76, 2 players) 6
UTG bets $143.17, Hero raises to $459.58, fold

Hero mucks A 2 A 7 (Two Pair, Aces and Sixes)

Hero wins $802.51


dont f w me
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:26 AM   #3
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

iPoker - $3 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $460.15 (VPIP: 36.76, PFR: 16.18, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 69)
UTG: $773.73 (VPIP: 31.74, PFR: 20.36, 3Bet Preflop: 4.29, Hands: 169)
MP: $466.03 (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 13.89, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
Hero (CO): $510.82
BTN: $298.75 (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
SB: $598.34 (VPIP: 28.79, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 66)

SB posts SB $1.50, BB posts BB $3.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $4.50) Hero has J 5 A 4

fold, MP calls $3.00, Hero raises to $13.50, BTN calls $13.50, SB calls $12.00, fold, MP calls $10.50

Flop: ($57.00, 4 players) 7 8 Q
SB bets $3.00, MP calls $3.00, Hero raises to $44.00, BTN calls $44.00, fold, fold

Turn: ($151.00, 2 players) K
Hero bets $74.00, BTN calls $74.00

River: ($299.00, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, BTN bets $167.25, fold

BTN wins $463.25


seems like a borderline iso pre from CO, from BTN think it's more std
ott is weird our immediate FE is really low and we don't block any value hands but we do have a lot of equity...not sure on b/c or xc or xrai all seem viable to me.
as played otr I thought he has a tough time folding 77/88 on this totally blank runout so I just gave up.
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:39 AM   #4
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

i like betting turn, checking just seems to turn our hand face up. if he is flat calling a set on that flop, villain has a good chance of again flat calling on that particular turn.

not sure what we would be accomplishing by c/r all in on turn.

cool thread.
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Old 09-15-2017, 01:51 PM   #5
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

some folds I made...

iPoker - $2 PL Hi - Omaha Hi - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: $203.56 (VPIP: 40.15, PFR: 19.71, 3Bet Preflop: 12.73, Hands: 140)
CO: $532.20 (VPIP: 52.58, PFR: 23.71, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 98)
BTN: $403.07 (VPIP: 30.57, PFR: 19.65, 3Bet Preflop: 7.78, Hands: 232)
Hero (SB): $200.00
BB: $295.38 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 2.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 96)
UTG: $159.60 (VPIP: 30.19, PFR: 7.55, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 53)
UTG+1: $78.00 (VPIP: 72.41, PFR: 3.45, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
MP: $195.00 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 4.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)

Hero posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has Q T 8 J

fold, UTG+1 calls $2.00, fold, MP+1 calls $2.00, CO calls $2.00, fold, Hero raises to $12.00, fold, UTG+1 calls $10.00, MP+1 calls $10.00, CO calls $10.00

Flop: ($50.00, 4 players) 8 Q A
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP+1 checks, CO checks

Turn: ($50.00, 4 players) T
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP+1 checks, CO bets $47.23, fold, fold, fold

CO wins $94.46


iPoker - $3 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: $753.90 (VPIP: 40.91, PFR: 19.09, 3Bet Preflop: 10.64, Hands: 112)
BB: $384.48 (VPIP: 41.51, PFR: 16.98, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 53)
Hero (UTG): $360.07
CO: $483.59 (VPIP: 23.40, PFR: 12.77, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 48)
BTN: $300.00 (VPIP: 31.96, PFR: 17.53, 3Bet Preflop: 4.65, Hands: 98)

SB posts SB $1.50, BB posts BB $3.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $4.50) Hero has K 6 Q Q

Hero raises to $10.50, fold, BTN calls $10.50, fold, BB calls $7.50

Flop: ($33.00, 3 players) 5 T J
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($33.00, 3 players) K
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $23.38, BB calls $23.38, fold

River: ($79.76, 2 players) 7
BB checks, BTN checks

BB shows J 3 4 J (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 65%, Flop 92%, Turn 97%)
BTN shows 6 T 6 K (Two Pair, Kings and Tens)
(Pre 35%, Flop 8%, Turn 3%)
BB wins $76.76


...and one I didn't make and probably could have...

iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $120.13 (VPIP: 64.58, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 49)
UTG: $167.05 (VPIP: 29.17, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 10.34, Hands: 50)
MP: $138.62 (VPIP: 27.37, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 96)
Hero (CO): $201.49
BTN: $43.92 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: $98.21 (VPIP: 53.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has K Q T A

fold, fold, Hero raises to $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, SB calls $3.00, BB calls $2.50

Flop: ($14.00, 4 players) 5 2 7
SB checks, BB bets $9.92, Hero calls $9.92, fold, fold

Turn: ($33.84, 2 players) Q
BB bets $25.50, Hero calls $25.50

River: ($84.84, 2 players) A
BB bets $35.50, Hero calls $35.50

Hero mucks K Q T A (Flush, Queen High)
(Pre 51%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
BB shows T J K T (Flush, King High)
(Pre 49%, Flop 100%, Turn 100%)
BB wins $152.84


thoughts?
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:44 PM   #6
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Since you have multiple hands in this ongoing thread, might I suggest you label them numerically to separate them and for ease of discussion?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
some folds I made...

===

Check is fine

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has Q T 8 J

===

I cbet here

Pre Flop: (pot: $4.50) Hero has K 6 Q Q

===

Can't fault you for calling. This is more of a player pool read, meaning that do people lead 3 streets with worse or nut flush blocker here? Playing balanced I would never fold.

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has K Q T A

===



thoughts?
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:28 PM   #7
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Hey man.
Just subbed to follow you're transaction to PLO.
GL and , I was thinking about PLO lately so , Do you have any advice on where to start?
I know some basics things like PFR hand cats. etc... but I have no study on PLO what so ever... everything I know is just by experience ...
Any head start would be highly appreciated.
GL.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:22 PM   #8
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Hey man, thanks for asking.

Personally I don't really believe in hardcore theory related study. There's a guy Tom Chambers who's a RIO coach who has some incredibly detailed and in depth work he's done on PLO combinatorics, etc., sort of nerdy background knowledge that I know is very significant to the game. However I feel like I can learn and internalize this stuff much faster by simply playing some hands and thinking into my decisions. Also I find Chambers' stuff excruciatingly boring.

What I like to do and have been doing lately is set aside a small chunk of time like 2 hours. Step 1 spend a short amount of time like 20-30 minutes watching a strat video -- Phil Galfond, Joni Joukimainnen, whatever. Goal is to get you in the mindset of really thinking critically. Then fire up 4-5 tables and play for an hour. Then spend a little time posting a hand on the forums from your session, ideally one with multiple decision points that are in question (just so you get more out of the thread instead of just looking at a single river decision where all prior streets are totally standard). Also respond to a couple either people's threads, it helps to cross check what you're learning/feel like you're learning with what the veteran posters in the SSPLO threads are saying.

Some exercises I've also been doing is to look at allin situations (doesn't matter the action) and simply plug them into Odds Oracle and see what the equities are. I think this will help with the NLHE>PLO transition because the relative equities are a lot more complicated in PLO. For example, on T92hh, which is better equity, AsAc8s7h or QcJh6h5h. Personally I have no idea, but once I run enough of these spots, I should have a better idea.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:11 PM   #9
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

GL! Subbed.
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:02 AM   #10
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Did a sweat with HUMBLE. the other day which went really well, got a good discussion going. He had some good insights into population tendencies of low stakes players (is 100plo still considered low stakes?) and pointed out a few things that I'm doing differently than him.

I think some of my leaks relative to learning PLO are:

- being too keen to play minimal showdown value passively. in holdem a second or third pair is often good to get to showdown because so much ace high in both ranges gets checked to river in equilibrium. In PLO, these pairs aren't good at SD nearly as often, and of course they have equity to improve to two pairs and trips. In PLO I need to push more equity in more spots and just bet and barrel more "mergey" type hands to get value+folds. Especially in the lower stakes where people aren't gonna xr enough.

- betting too thinly for value. I'm making a lot of mistakes here where I'm just not aware of how strong range distributions are on certain boards, like with bottom two pair on a board where a straight and a flush are possible, it's just a check down, and I'm wanting to vbet river.

- not defending the blinds enough. Apparently good players are defending the blinds super wide so I can probably open up there.
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:08 AM   #11
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

I've dropped down in stakes, think I should stick to 50 and 100plo for now. Here's a couple hands:

iPoker - $0.50 PL Hi - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $50.00 (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 52.38, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 22)
Hero (UTG): $50.00
MP: $55.24 (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 25)
CO: $30.00
BTN: $30.82 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
SB: $33.86 (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 22)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50, CO posts penalty blind $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.25) Hero has 9 T 9 8

Hero raises to $2.25, fold, CO calls $1.75, fold, fold, BB calls $1.75

Flop: ($7.00, 3 players) T 3 7
BB checks, Hero bets $4.41, fold, BB calls $4.41

Turn: ($15.82, 2 players) 5
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($15.82, 2 players) J
BB bets $7.48, Hero raises to $37.39, BB calls $29.91

x flop? generally I'm trying to do more flop betting with pair+draws+blocker type hands as I mentioned above.

as played otf, should we continue turn? blocking Tx and lacking blockers to 7x/3x/straights ott seems like it's more of a check.



iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $229.15 (VPIP: 40.55, PFR: 26.95, 3Bet Preflop: 10.87, Hands: 403)
BTN: $97.94 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 18.48, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 185)
Hero (SB): $127.48
BB: $99.85 (VPIP: 43.90, PFR: 2.44, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 43)
UTG: $116.88 (VPIP: 13.25, PFR: 7.23, 3Bet Preflop: 3.33, Hands: 83)
MP: $93.82 (VPIP: 36.84, PFR: 5.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has T A J K

fold, MP calls $1.00, CO raises to $4.50, fold, Hero raises to $15.50, fold, fold, CO calls $11.00

Flop: ($33.00, 2 players) J K Q
Hero bets $15.58, CO calls $15.58

Turn: ($64.16, 2 players) 3
Hero bets $61.16, fold


Sizings? I probably should go smaller ott blocking JJ, KK I guess. And V's spade combo draws probably just pile flop so a smaller turn size seems better in light of these factors.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:22 AM   #12
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

if youre half as annoying at plo as you were at holdem, youll do just fine. gl
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:59 AM   #13
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

looooooooooool who are you?
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:57 AM   #14
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

holdem ds continues, dropped another 7k this morning

Looking at 'stars plo zoom pools right now and somewhat salivating at the hands/hr and how much practice I'd be able to get in at PLO in a short period of time.

Anyway wanted to check a few standard spots and also some more difficult hands.

H1 QQ77ds on JJ5 in 3bp
iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $407.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)
UTG: $152.42 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (CO): $126.50
BTN: $119.04 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: $100.84 (VPIP: 28.81, PFR: 21.19, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 120)

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has Q 7 Q 7

fold, Hero raises to $3.50, fold, SB raises to $11.50, fold, Hero calls $8.00

Flop: ($24.00, 2 players) J J 5
SB bets $11.34, fold

SB wins $34.01


Is this fairly standard? I have no idea if this is a flop overfold or not. Do have to defend this otf?


H2 folding turn top two on connected board BB-CO

iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $100.00 (VPIP: 30.91, PFR: 22.55, 3Bet Preflop: 9.35, Hands: 278)
BTN: $97.00 (VPIP: 39.95, PFR: 27.19, 3Bet Preflop: 10.96, Hands: 429)
SB: $123.54 (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 8.82, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 107)
Hero (BB): $154.96

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has 6 T K 8

CO raises to $3.50, fold, fold, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.50, 2 players) 5 J K
Hero checks, CO bets $4.73, Hero calls $4.73

Turn: ($16.96, 2 players) T
Hero checks, CO bets $12.50, fold

CO wins $28.52


Is this an overfold ott?



Some other hands where multiple streets are in question for me:

H3 ****ty two pairs at low SPR
iPoker - $0.50 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $42.86 (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
BTN: $44.61 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (SB): $66.03
BB: $94.31 (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
UTG: $153.36 (VPIP: 26.76, PFR: 18.31, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 71)

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 9 J 7 K

fold, CO raises to $1.75, BTN calls $1.75, Hero raises to $7.50, fold, CO calls $5.75, fold

Flop: ($17.25, 2 players) J 7 A
Hero bets $12.12, CO calls $12.12

Turn: ($41.49, 2 players) K
Hero bets $26.33

Wasn't sure how to play this at low SPR. We don't often (if ever) get called by worse when we jam turn but it still seemed superior to x/c for equity denial/playability/variance reasons? Do we sometimes fold out better?


H4 KQ98 nutty flop
iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $106.14 (VPIP: 30.92, PFR: 22.52, 3Bet Preflop: 9.80, Hands: 264)
BTN: $98.50 (VPIP: 40.48, PFR: 27.47, 3Bet Preflop: 11.35, Hands: 421)
SB: $125.04 (VPIP: 19.10, PFR: 8.99, 3Bet Preflop: 2.70, Hands: 93)
Hero (BB): $117.21
UTG: $82.68 (VPIP: 43.48, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 24)

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has Q 9 K 8

UTG calls $1.00, CO raises to $4.50, fold, fold, Hero calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50

Flop: ($14.00, 3 players) T 3 J
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $8.82, Hero calls $8.82, fold

Turn: ($31.64, 2 players) A
Hero checks, CO bets $19.93, Hero calls $19.93

River: ($71.50, 2 players) K
Hero checks, CO checks


Peel pre ok?
Flop I should just xr gii right? (mistake there, was unsure on fd board but our equity gii is super high I think)
Turn was weird because with our Qs blocker V shouldn't have many flushes in his range, he doesn't iso that many KXss hands pre. I even considered leading. Thoughts?
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:18 PM   #15
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
holdem ds continues, dropped another 7k this morning

Downswings are the worst. Hopefully some run good starts going your way.

Looking at 'stars plo zoom pools right now and somewhat salivating at the hands/hr and how much practice I'd be able to get in at PLO in a short period of time.

Anyway wanted to check a few standard spots and also some more difficult hands.

H1 QQ77ds on JJ5 in 3bp
iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $407.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)
UTG: $152.42 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (CO): $126.50
BTN: $119.04 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: $100.84 (VPIP: 28.81, PFR: 21.19, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 120)

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has Q 7 Q 7

fold, Hero raises to $3.50, fold, SB raises to $11.50, fold, Hero calls $8.00

Flop: ($24.00, 2 players) J J 5
SB bets $11.34, fold

SB wins $34.01


Is this fairly standard? I have no idea if this is a flop overfold or not. Do have to defend this otf?

Vs an aggressive 3 bettor I call as we might have the best hand. We block a lot of QJ combos. Vs a tight 3 bettor I float, assuming that there are not a lot of Jx in his 3b from the sb range.


H2 folding turn top two on connected board BB-CO

iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $100.00 (VPIP: 30.91, PFR: 22.55, 3Bet Preflop: 9.35, Hands: 278)
BTN: $97.00 (VPIP: 39.95, PFR: 27.19, 3Bet Preflop: 10.96, Hands: 429)
SB: $123.54 (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 8.82, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 107)
Hero (BB): $154.96

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has 6 T K 8

CO raises to $3.50, fold, fold, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.50, 2 players) 5 J K
Hero checks, CO bets $4.73, Hero calls $4.73

Turn: ($16.96, 2 players) T
Hero checks, CO bets $12.50, fold

CO wins $28.52


Is this an overfold ott?

Fold flop. Flush draw board, your second pair outs are weak, may be no good, and most importantly this is too weak of a hand to be floating oop.


Some other hands where multiple streets are in question for me:

H3 ****ty two pairs at low SPR
iPoker - $0.50 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $42.86 (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
BTN: $44.61 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (SB): $66.03
BB: $94.31 (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
UTG: $153.36 (VPIP: 26.76, PFR: 18.31, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 71)

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 9 J 7 K

fold, CO raises to $1.75, BTN calls $1.75, Hero raises to $7.50, fold, CO calls $5.75, fold

Flop: ($17.25, 2 players) J 7 A
Hero bets $12.12, CO calls $12.12

Turn: ($41.49, 2 players) K
Hero bets $26.33

Wasn't sure how to play this at low SPR. We don't often (if ever) get called by worse when we jam turn but it still seemed superior to x/c for equity denial/playability/variance reasons? Do we sometimes fold out better?

This is close and jamming turn is spewy. We are playing our hand as essentially blockers to AJ/AK. A turn bet may fold out AJ/A7. I wouldn't check call this turn either.


H4 KQ98 nutty flop
iPoker - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $106.14 (VPIP: 30.92, PFR: 22.52, 3Bet Preflop: 9.80, Hands: 264)
BTN: $98.50 (VPIP: 40.48, PFR: 27.47, 3Bet Preflop: 11.35, Hands: 421)
SB: $125.04 (VPIP: 19.10, PFR: 8.99, 3Bet Preflop: 2.70, Hands: 93)
Hero (BB): $117.21
UTG: $82.68 (VPIP: 43.48, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 24)

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has Q 9 K 8

UTG calls $1.00, CO raises to $4.50, fold, fold, Hero calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50

Flop: ($14.00, 3 players) T 3 J
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $8.82, Hero calls $8.82, fold

Turn: ($31.64, 2 players) A
Hero checks, CO bets $19.93, Hero calls $19.93

River: ($71.50, 2 players) K
Hero checks, CO checks


Peel pre ok?
Flop I should just xr gii right? (mistake there, was unsure on fd board but our equity gii is super high I think)
Turn was weird because with our Qs blocker V shouldn't have many flushes in his range, he doesn't iso that many KXss hands pre. I even considered leading. Thoughts?

Flop call is fine. Some people are polarized with their turn betting range. I'm not sure about leading at any point in this hand.
..
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:47 AM   #16
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Thanks again for the review.

H2 "Fold flop. Flush draw board, your second pair outs are weak, may be no good, and most importantly this is too weak of a hand to be floating oop."
Wait but...we have top pair? Is this really a fold or did you mis-read our hand? lol

H3 "This is close and jamming turn is spewy. We are playing our hand as essentially blockers to AJ/AK. A turn bet may fold out AJ/A7. I wouldn't check call this turn either."
Good to know, again I'm pretty unsure in certain spots like 3bps (as we saw in H1 QQ77ds should be a flop call). In this case our turn jam is too thin/not good often enough and wouldn't have known that.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:50 AM   #17
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Re: H2

"We have top pair."

Yes, top pair no kicker, no nut outs this is a standard fold. This might be an interesting discussion, but i fold here like 99%.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:21 PM   #18
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Yeah I gotcha, just wanted to check. I can see how this combo is kind of low in our range given the ****ty backdoors/poor potential, yadda yadda.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:49 PM   #19
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

@HUMBLE question about H3. With the SPR on the flop, can we not rule out sets, AJ and A7? Would villain not shove in this spot? Just curious as I thought it would be a shove as I feel we are only losing to KQT and 9TQ, maybe random AK with a flush draw?
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:50 PM   #20
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

people are flatting A+nfd, A7, AJ all the time at those stakes.
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:50 PM   #21
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

I play mostly live, that's crazy to me!
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #22
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

gj keeping up the thread, OP.

Ok after a month or so lull in my interest in learning PLO and dealing with lot of IRL stuff I'm back into it, playing some 10plo-50plo on ACR last couple days. If anyone has comments on the following, much appreciated:

H1
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.50 NL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

kingrob_007 (CO): $25.22 (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 42.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
gladiaTHOR1 (BTN): $119.56 (VPIP: 17.50, PFR: 17.50, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 40)
ZippythePinhead (SB): $72.69
sarabande (BB): $100.00 (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 18)

ZippythePinhead posts SB $0.25, sarabande posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) ZippythePinhead has J T A K

kingrob_007 raises to $1.75, fold, ZippythePinhead raises to $5.75, fold, kingrob_007 calls $4.00

Flop: ($12.00, 2 players) 8 3 J
ZippythePinhead bets $5.00, kingrob_007 calls $5.00

Turn: ($22.00, 2 players) Q
ZippythePinhead checks, kingrob_007 checks

River: ($22.00, 2 players) 9
ZippythePinhead bets $20.90

standard all streets? (I know its a NL hand but let's assume PLO/doesn't make a diff)


H2
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.50 NL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

boourgone (UTG): $387.41 (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
e11e (MP): $50.00 (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
gladiaTHOR1 (CO): $50.00 (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 32)
ZippythePinhead (BTN): $78.54
Krayzie777 (SB): $27.25 (VPIP: 58.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
Gguts (BB): $20.00 (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 23.53, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 18)

Krayzie777 posts SB $0.25, Gguts posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) ZippythePinhead has J 8 8 A

fold, e11e raises to $1.75, fold, ZippythePinhead calls $1.75, fold, fold

Flop: ($4.25, 2 players) Q 6 T
e11e bets $3.03, fold

defend flop?


H3
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

flakeoutZzz (BB): $57.92 (VPIP: 23.96, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 2.63, Hands: 99)
jcbutler (UTG): $25.41 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
ZippythePinhead (CO): $21.95
AHLRAD (BTN): $24.35 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 23.53, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
dancingQQ (SB): $51.74 (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

dancingQQ posts SB $0.10, flakeoutZzz posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) ZippythePinhead has 5 T K K

jcbutler calls $0.25, ZippythePinhead raises to $1.10, fold, fold, flakeoutZzz calls $0.85, jcbutler calls $0.85

Flop: ($3.40, 3 players) J A K
flakeoutZzz bets $2.42, fold, ZippythePinhead calls $2.42

Turn: ($8.24, 2 players) Q
flakeoutZzz checks, ZippythePinhead bets $2.60, flakeoutZzz calls $2.60

River: ($13.44, 2 players) Q
flakeoutZzz bets $12.77, ZippythePinhead calls $12.77

should have bet bigger ott.
raise riv?

H4
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.50 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

ZippythePinhead (BB): $49.82
Jleech (UTG): $50.50 (VPIP: 26.92, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
bunchaJIBerish (MP): $31.51 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 23)
Nexus11 (CO): $31.69 (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
dancingQQ (BTN): $133.61 (VPIP: 41.30, PFR: 21.74, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
upandup (SB): $128.73 (VPIP: 45.10, PFR: 27.45, 3Bet Preflop: 26.09, Hands: 52)

upandup posts SB $0.25, ZippythePinhead posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) ZippythePinhead has K 8 K 7

fold, fold, fold, dancingQQ raises to $1.75, fold, ZippythePinhead calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75, 2 players) 4 5 3
ZippythePinhead checks, dancingQQ bets $2.67, ZippythePinhead calls $2.67

Turn: ($9.09, 2 players) T
ZippythePinhead checks, dancingQQ bets $6.48, ZippythePinhead calls $6.48

River: ($22.05, 2 players) T
ZippythePinhead checks, dancingQQ bets $20.95, fold


retarded failure to 3b pre, playing too many tables.
anyone xr the flop as a merge value/prot with nutted potential?
xc turn is just std here?
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:58 AM   #23
Iuomo
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Take this with a grain of salt, as I play mostly live PLO.
1. I bet min of $10 on the flop and call off facing a shove. As played I'm bombing turn.
2. I am flatting flop. Way too much equity IMO to fold here.
3. Have to bomb turn and give opponent chance to make a mistake/get freerolled. As played you have $3 left on river so I'm shoving. If Deeper I'd have to evaluate.
4. I'm folding turn. Flop is fine, but turn dirties a few of our outs.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:47 PM   #24
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Thanks man, appreciate it.

In H1 V only has $20 otf, so you would bet half his stack? I thought it might be better to try to induce a shove there, but not sure. Maybe if we bet big we get some QQ and T9XX combo draws to fold which is good for our exact hand here.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:19 PM   #25
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Re: self reliance -- educating myself in plo

Out of curiosity how could you rationalize going from playing 2knl to 50pl? 1knl+ still runs plenty on US sites and the hourly cut is >90%. Why?
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