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Old 06-27-2017, 07:14 AM   #51
PandaLife
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

H1, river is a clear bet/fold as you say he doesn’t have bluffs or worse for value, but yeah these are hard to make, its better that we’re deep tho, cus we don’t need to call as often. Flop sizing is fine, turn should be bigger and river I think going bigger or smaller to induce (small percentage vs some regs) is fine, readless tho we should just exploit and bet big. I don’t like the 60% or what this bet is.

H2, is an interesting line but I think we should cbet flop, as played on turn you’re not really repping any strong hands but I don’t hate it as an exploit if the guy is folding enough directly or by the river. Unlucky result in the end.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:21 AM   #52
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Anyone else prefer flatting pre in hand 2?
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Old 06-28-2017, 01:22 AM   #53
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker View Post
Anyone else prefer flatting pre in hand 2?
It's fine depending on how you construct your ranges pre, I prefer to spazz out with 500% 3bet in this spot but that's just me.
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Old 06-28-2017, 01:34 AM   #54
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

i love the spoilers lol

here's my thoughts:

55 - imo it's either a really small bet or a check, i personally prefer just going into xc mode. as played i would go a lot bigger ott, around 90-130%, and xc river

T9 - seems like a pretty easy range bet on flop. i don't like your line here tbh, not sure why you xb to 2b turn

88 - i like mixing in overbets and 1/3 on flop, could be wrong... as played i would go bigger ott and otr
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:42 AM   #55
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker View Post
Anyone else prefer flatting pre in hand 2?
I prefer it, as I have it in my flatting range BB vs SB. It has enough equity vs a typical SB open range to call. Having said that, I don't think there's too much difference between calling and 3betting with that hand. And I can't tell you which action has a higher EV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
It's fine depending on how you construct your ranges pre, I prefer to spazz out with 500% 3bet in this spot but that's just me.
Lol, I think the most you can 3bet is 400%
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:23 AM   #56
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPhilosopher View Post
I prefer it, as I have it in my flatting range BB vs SB. It has enough equity vs a typical SB open range to call. Having said that, I don't think there's too much difference between calling and 3betting with that hand. And I can't tell you which action has a higher EV.



Lol, I think the most you can 3bet is 400%
Generally my 3b BB vs SB, depending on card distribution on that particular day, is going to be around 450-500%.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:32 AM   #57
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

I would flat the T9s pre, but exploitatively you can probably 3-bet a huge amount in BvB.
I don't understand the turn raise at all. Are you repping a flopped straight or slowplayed set? That deuce doesn't connect with your range. Just call turn and then bomb all rivers (apart from tens and nines) if villain gives up.
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Old 06-28-2017, 07:30 PM   #58
Fatboy54
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Quote:
I don't understand the turn raise at all.
I think we can agree the turn raise was:

[x] Spew
[x] FPS
[x] Evidence Op has the IQ of a jellyfish
[x] Evidence Op has beachballs for bollocks

also,

I am on the same hilltop as our colonial friend when it comes to 3betting a sb rfi. /lets#move#on
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Old 06-30-2017, 02:42 AM   #59
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

what a fun hand!

Sweat it first, suss/comment on hero line/ put CO on a range/hand.

then check spoiler, then comment on CO

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $58.04 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 20, 3B: 16, AF: 1.5, Hands: 64
SB: $8.73 - VPIP: 100, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 2
BB: $43.72 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 16
[b]Hero (UTG): $32.36
MP: $20.51 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 29, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 7
CO: $130.44 - VPIP: 30, PFR: 4, 3B: 0, AF: 0.8, Hands: 23

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with T T
Hero raises to $0.70, 1 fold, CO calls $0.70, 1 fold, SB calls $0.60, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.35) 7 6 2 (3 players)
SB bets $8.03, Hero ???

Hero calls $8.03, CO calls $8.03

Turn: ($26.44) 2 (3 players)

Hero ???

Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($26.44) Q (3 players)

Hero checks, (that's always a x right? CO checks

Spoiler:
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:13 AM   #60
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

I haven't looked at the results yet. I'm confused why you omitted the SB on the turn and river and are focusing just on the CO? I'm more worried about the SB to be honest. But I think I'm happy just folding here on the flop. Might seem weak, but you're facing a huge overbet, and another player is still yet to act. You don't have much info on the SB, but it's leaning more towards a passive whale than an aggressive one.

Is there any point assigning a range or hand to the CO? He's a fish; how can you put him on anything?

Checking spoiler now..

Well, um, lol, my point about the CO looks to be valid.

Interesting play by the SB hahaha. I still say without anymore info than what you have, may be best to fold as an exploitative play. I don't see a passive player (in general) overbetting like that without a hand. Of course, I wouldn't think he'd overvalue a hand that weak.

My brain hurts now lol. I agree with you, fun hand!

EDIT: Forgot your last question. Yeah, I'd always check the river (and turn).
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Old 06-30-2017, 05:30 AM   #61
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

wp on analysing then checking. I have some thoughts for you on catergorising villains, but I'm off on a week long trip right now. - I'll post them in your pgc in a week or so.

Cheers FB54
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:10 AM   #62
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Have fun on your trip; looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:57 AM   #63
Fatboy54
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Quote:
You don't have much info on the SB,
On the contrary, I have all the information I ever need. Villain has 35bb and has just flatted in the BB. Villain is a fish...99% of the time.

Read on...

Failing to pick up on non-HUD related reads is a huge leak in online poker, and even more so in games of limited information like cash Zoom.

At 25nlz there are two types of villain playing with short stacks:

Fish
Adept short stack ratholers

As a nailed-on population read, there are pretty much zero adept shortstackers at 25nlz. I’m sure there are one or two, but we don’t adopt a meta-strategy based on the 1% do we?

I label every single 25nlz short stacker as fish until proven otherwise, and to date, I’ve never re-labelled a single one.

Failing to note you are in the hand with fish will have disastrous consequences on your win rate especially if you are assuming fish are unknown regs and then trying to play them balanced. This would be a mega leak. Keep your balanced poker for the regs (and true unknowns who should be treated as regs until proved otherwise). Proven fish should always be exploited using unbalanced strategies. (check your Janda, he says this clearly enough).

If you want a theoretical resource, for what I've just written, read up on Bayes Theorem in Chapter Three of The Mathematics of Poker.

Finally, we can add a spot read to our population read on the hand in question. SB has 35bb in the BB. A skilled shortstacker has no flatting range in this spot, they would be 3bet or folding, so we can confirm villain is a fish in this spot.

Quote:
I still say without anymore info than what you have, may be best to fold as an exploitative play.

Villains fish flop spazzing range in this spot is huuuggggeeee, and hero folding an over pair would be a leak of biblical proportions!!!!! Heads up it's fist pump call, sigh to his occasional monster, make a note, move on.

This hand is more interesting because we have one behind, but that is irrelevant in the context of our discussion re the short stacking fish.

If you are interested (I don’t recommend it!!) there is a ratholing cash game strategy in Chapter 16 of the book Kill Everyone (which is weird because it is a tourney book), although for accuracy I should mention it is a 20bb strat, not a 40bb one.

TL/DR

At 25nlz a short stacker is never an unknown, is 99% of the time a fish, and should always be exploited.
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:08 AM   #64
PokerPhilosopher
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Some good thoughts FB. As far as the fish spazzing out.. You're probably right. I was thinking the passive ones might not spazz out that much, but that might be being too kind to them lol.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:03 PM   #65
Fatboy54
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

Quote:
I was thinking the passive ones might not spazz out that much, but that might be being too kind to them lol.
Fair point at 100bb effective stack, but when the flop SPR is 3 and you have an overpair to a fishy villain, villains passivity is not really a factor.

My main point was more meta-game though...ie work on capturing and assessing non-hud related reads and then ensure you exploit (play unbalanced) these villain types. They make up a huge percentage of the playing pool at nano stakes zoom (esp at 10nlz, which for some odd reason is consistently fishier than 5nlz ??)

GL
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:34 PM   #66
Fatboy54
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Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

1958 GMT

Some you...







    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37790196

    BTN: $25 (100 bb)
    SB: $27.25 (109 bb)
    Hero (BB): $33.96 (135.8 bb)
    UTG: $66.10 (264.4 bb)
    MP: $76.58 (306.3 bb)
    CO: $23.30 (93.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with K K
    2 folds, CO raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, CO raises to $7.60, Hero raises to $33.96 and is all-in, CO calls $15.70

    Flop: ($46.70) 4 A 6 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: ($46.70) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: ($46.70) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


    2000 GMT

    Some you



      Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37790198

      BTN: $87.84 (351.4 bb)
      SB: $25 (100 bb)
      BB: $39.99 (160 bb)
      UTG: $27.37 (109.5 bb)
      MP: $26.61 (106.4 bb)
      Hero (CO): $26 (104 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with K K
      UTG folds, MP raises to $0.66, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, BB raises to $5.50, MP folds, Hero raises to $26 and is all-in, BB calls $20.50

      Flop: ($52.76) 3 9 5 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: ($52.76) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($52.76) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Spoiler:



      Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
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      Old 07-14-2017, 02:59 AM   #67
      Fatboy54
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      10 nlz coz I was on the bevvie, B game innit

      Both villains unknown

      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools by CardRunners - Hand Details

      BTN: $22.50 (225 bb)
      Hero (SB): $16.40 (164 bb)
      BB: $36.74 (367.4 bb)
      UTG: $10.28 (102.8 bb)
      MP: $11.50 (115 bb)
      CO: $11.95 (119.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
      2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $0.80, Hero raises to $2.10, 2 folds, BTN calls $1.30

      Flop: ($4.60) 9 5 6 (2 players)

      preflop ??

      Now what??
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      Old 07-14-2017, 10:06 AM   #68
      PokerPhilosopher
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      Preflop is fine if AJs is part of your bluff range. Whether or not it should be, I'm not sure about. On the flop, just give up. You can't be fighting for every pot, and you'll have other flops where you have more equity.
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      Old 07-14-2017, 11:04 AM   #69
      SalmoTrutta
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Fatboy54 View Post
      Now what??
      Can't say without coming across as a sarcastic knee jerk dousche.
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      Old 07-14-2017, 11:13 AM   #70
      Fatboy54
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      Quote:
      Can't say without coming across as a sarcastic knee jerk dousche.
      that's perfectly fine here...go for it
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      Old 07-14-2017, 11:25 AM   #71
      Flpmethntsdlr
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      I (re)learned a lot from this thread this AM, thank you.

      Probably fold AJs pre but don't mind it on occasion. Bet small or give up completely.
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      Old 07-14-2017, 07:04 PM   #72
      SalmoTrutta
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Fatboy54 View Post
      that's perfectly fine here...go for it
      You want to bomb it and set up a turn jam, clearly leaving about $3.50 as the only reasonable option.
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      Old 07-14-2017, 08:31 PM   #73
      Clanty
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      It's impossible to say without knowing what your c4b range is mate. AJs is definitely a fine/std 4b pre
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      Old 07-15-2017, 02:23 AM   #74
      Fatboy54
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      thx all,

      I was happy enough with preflop.

      I bet one third of pot and villain folded. I didn't like it, hence the post. Just worked through it again and think giving up is better EV...maybe???

      *sigh* idk

      Last edited by Fatboy54; 07-15-2017 at 02:31 AM.
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      Old 07-15-2017, 04:54 AM   #75
      PokerPhilosopher
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      Re: The Recmeister's Banter Bus

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Fatboy54 View Post
      thx all,

      I was happy enough with preflop.

      I bet one third of pot and villain folded. I didn't like it, hence the post. Just worked through it again and think giving up is better EV...maybe???

      *sigh* idk
      Yeah, I definitely think giving up provides a higher EV. I don't think it's a flop we need to cbet with our hand. And I don't think it's a flop we're going to get enough folds with (thinking in exploitative terms). If you think what he would call a cold 4bet with.. maybe some mid-high pocket pairs, and AK (if he doesn't 5bet it). Maybe if he's a bit looser, he might call with something slightly worse. But pocket pairs are probably not folding on this flop. AK might not even fold. You're not in great shape.
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