this thread looks like fun, in

Played today, games were so nitty. I think I hate the pool when it's just a nitfest, in those times the best approach is to just overbluff like crazy, but I have tons of problems doing that because of my image, it's hard for me to find who is calling me light.

Also my valuebets always get folds, today one guy folded an overpair in a 3-bet pot vs me. I get super confused in those times, because some people slowplay like crazy and overbluff, some never bluff and have tons of x/f.

I really feel some guys out there 3-bet a tight range and always check when they have it and bomb the flop when they don't have it, meh, it's really hard to adjust vs these kind of things in zoom, since we don't see the same guy often.

Some hands

H1: vs reg that was 3-betting quite light and was aggro, now I understand why people did this to me when I was overaggro lol.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 140.32 BB
UTG: 127.46 BB
MP: 111.18 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero calls 7.68 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) 4 8 4
SB bets 7 BB, Hero raises to 20 BB, SB raises to 50 BB, Hero raises to 90 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 117 BB


H2: vs fish, OTR it's quite obvious he binked something, but could he have any bluffs here? My std was to fold, but since I made some hero calls that did well, I got confident and made this call.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 52.32 BB
SB: 101.5 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 140.88 BB
MP: 101 BB
CO: 53.14 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A T

fold, fold, CO raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB

Flop: (4.5 BB, 2 players) A 6 A
Hero checks, CO bets 2 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Turn: (8.5 BB, 2 players) 3
Hero checks, CO bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

River: (16.5 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, CO bets 16 BB, Hero calls 16 BB




H3: vs reg that overfolds, maybe jamming river is bad because it's possible he is folding everything OTT.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100.94 BB
SB: 59.56 BB
BB: 248.44 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 108.86 BB
Hero (CO): 107.06 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q A

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 6 2 2
UTG checks, Hero bets 6.12 BB, UTG calls 6.12 BB

Turn: (31.74 BB, 2 players) 3
UTG checks, Hero bets 22.62 BB, UTG calls 22.62 BB

River: (76.98 BB, 2 players) 2
UTG checks, Hero bets 69.32 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 62.26 BB and is all-in




H4: really confused OTT, don't know what I should do, was thinking about jamming, betting small or checking. Villain has some Ah floats there which sucks. wp?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
Hero (SB): 117.14 BB
BB: 45 BB
UTG: 605.88 BB
MP: 120.7 BB
CO: 120.62 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 8 BB, fold, BTN calls 6 BB

Flop: (17 BB, 2 players) 8 9 6
Hero checks, BTN bets 8.08 BB, Hero raises to 29 BB, BTN calls 20.92 BB

Turn: (75 BB, 2 players) A
Hero checks, BTN bets 63 BB and is all-in, fold

BTN wins 71.24 BB


H5: vs reg, some intense vamo action OTR by him lol. It's so good to be a station sometimes lol

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 108.48 BB
SB: 191.82 BB
BB: 111.3 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 123.34 BB
CO: 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, BB calls 1.32 BB

Flop: (5.14 BB, 2 players) 6 K 9
BB checks, Hero bets 1.6 BB, BB raises to 6 BB, Hero calls 4.4 BB

Turn: (17.14 BB, 2 players) Q
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (17.14 BB, 2 players) 2
BB bets 20.5 BB, Hero calls 20.5 BB




H6: this is the kind of hand I hate the most, people cbet and then check with a very strong range because they think they won't get value from worse. Is this a common thing? I feel a ton of regs in 100z and today on 50z were doing this. Vs players like that, should we check behind and realize equity? Or bet and give up OTR?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 101.5 BB
SB: 78.78 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 658.66 BB
MP: 80.42 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 7.46 BB, Hero calls 5.14 BB

Flop: (15.42 BB, 2 players) J T 2
BB bets 7 BB, Hero calls 7 BB

Turn: (29.42 BB, 2 players) 3
BB checks, Hero bets 14.52 BB, BB calls 14.52 BB

River: (58.46 BB, 2 players) 6
BB checks, Hero bets 28.88 BB, BB calls 28.88 BB




H7: vs reg that hates to fold lol

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 125.3 BB
SB: 98.04 BB
BB: 213.16 BB
UTG: 497.12 BB
MP: 276.3 BB
CO: 92.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A J

fold, MP raises to 2.2 BB, fold, Hero raises to 7 BB, fold, fold, MP calls 4.8 BB

Flop: (15.5 BB, 2 players) 6 4 T
MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: (15.5 BB, 2 players) T
MP checks, Hero checks

River: (15.5 BB, 2 players) J
MP checks, Hero bets 11.04 BB, MP calls 11.04 BB


H7: vs unknown, this is a gto call, right? We have few better bluffcatchers than this one that don't block villain's bluffs. Also I think he isn't valuebetting AJ there. I usually fold OTR, but leveled myself into calling with my blockers, was folding any A8 or Axcc type of hands.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 104.5 BB
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 41 BB
UTG: 471.02 BB
MP: 103.18 BB
CO: 177.46 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 3 A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.1 BB, Hero raises to 8 BB, BB calls 7 BB, BTN calls 5.9 BB

Flop: (24 BB, 3 players) A 6 6
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets 7.52 BB, Hero calls 7.52 BB, fold

Turn: (39.04 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, BTN bets 24.48 BB, Hero calls 24.48 BB

River: (88 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero checks, BTN bets 64.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 60 BB and is all-in




H8: re-stealer was super aggro, but initial raiser was the king of nits, I think I should just x flop when the nit overcalls, QQ is probably no good, right? Once we bet and the aggroboy jams, we have to call, right?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 111.08 BB
SB: 130.26 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 99.5 BB
MP: 161.94 BB
CO: 119.84 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, Hero raises to 23 BB, CO calls 20 BB, SB calls 14 BB

Flop: (69 BB, 3 players) 3 6 7
SB checks, Hero bets 21.7 BB, CO calls 21.7 BB, SB raises to 107.26 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 55.3 BB and is all-in, CO calls 75.14 BB and is all-in

Turn: (339.68 BB, 3 players) A

haha that aces check on the turn vs your qko is exactly the reason why they are stuck playing 50z

qk suited you mean?

Ye sorry

apart from 42s, those are all reasonable/standard calls vs utg 2.5x, and you can call that as well, dude.

Wow, you seriously call all those hands? Then your calling range must really wide and have tons of trash in it. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

not the offsuit combos, just the suited.

That's still too wide imo. If you're calling 74s and 63s, you're calling almost every suited 3 gapper and 2 gapper, which is ridiculous!

of course we can disagree, those hands will certainly not doubling your winrate by any means, but you can't really go wrong with very good potodds vs a well defined range.

spin is right about this one. Even though in a vacuum it could be +EV, we need some reads to exploit villain in order to do so. Overall I prefer just folding because rake is too high.

btw, guys, won't play today. Was doing my best to wake up early, but ended up sleeping very little, took the morning to recover some of the sleep time I lost, most of it happened because of lack of discipline, like not sleeping early. Will take today's free time to analyze my database and post here my insights.

Basically this is how my year is going



Here is my entire graph since my first 50z shot($)(played 33k hands on 100z)



Now in bbs(2.73 bbev)

Btw, looked at my database to see how balanced I'm OTR in a 3-bet bet bet jam situation.

Results are like this(out of 120 hands):
Value: 78
Hands that were turned into a bluff/hand merging/overplay/explo valuebetting(whatever you guys wanna call): 14
Bluffs: 28

Since I almost always go for a jam OTR(which varies from 50% sizing to 100% or a slight overbet, but usually it's a 100% psb), I think I'm underbluffing slightly in the sample, but if we consider the overplays as bluffs, I'm quite balanced OTR.

If I had checked all my overplays, I would be bluffing 26% there.
In the sample, with my overplays considered as bluffs, I'm bluffing 35% there, but there's a gray area in there, since pure bluffcatchers do very poorly vs hands I merged OTR, so it's quite hard to calculate how unbalanced I'm OTR with those overplays in the mix.

Found out some cool hands lol, OTR is so bad lol.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 50.2 BB
SB: 649.8 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 107.18 BB
MP: 103 BB
CO: 177.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, MP calls 8 BB

Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) 3 5 3
Hero bets 7.08 BB, MP calls 7.08 BB

Turn: (36.66 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 22.98 BB, MP calls 22.98 BB

River: (82.62 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero bets 58.94 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 78.62 BB


lol!

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 101 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 129.88 BB
UTG: 34.08 BB
MP: 103.67 BB
CO: 166.45 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T J

fold, fold, CO raises to 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 11 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (23.5 BB, 2 players) 3 6 J
CO checks, Hero bets 7.39 BB, CO calls 7.39 BB

Turn: (38.28 BB, 2 players) 6
CO checks, Hero bets 27.28 BB, CO calls 27.28 BB

River: (92.84 BB, 2 players) 6
CO checks, Hero bets 55.33 BB and is all-in, CO calls 55.33 BB




It's funny to see those results, almost everyone in the pool thinks I overbluff OTR in those spots, maybe I care too much about being balanced in those spots rather than let villains get away with explo folding the river. Tbh, given the overplays, villains can't quite fold hands like TPTK OTR, since I could be valuebetting worse/same. I don't know what I'm going to do in that area of my game, maybe just keep it the same and work on other areas that are probably worse.

Some thoughts on 50z and how annoying it is to look for exploits in a huge player pool where strategies range pretty wide from each other.

The tough part of 50z is that rake is absurd if we compare to the level of play from the opponents. And to make it even worse, people play so differently from each other that it's hard to be right with exploits consistently. Just as an example: there are players that open 50% from the SB, when we call, they check all their strong hands and almost pot with their air. There's some guys that do the opposite: they bet big with their good hands and check with their bad hands.

The tough part of that is that there are >1k regs/regfish in the pool, each one with his individual approach to the game, if we end up betting when checked to all the time, we're getting owned by those who are always checking the goods. Few people play balanced strats in those spots, so if we're wrong with our exploits, we will get owned. And it's hard to know how each of those regs play in that spot, because they're so many, it's really hard to get reads in such a big pool.

And to those guys saying that "why not playing a reasonable balanced strat?" Because GTO strats won't cut it in a 8-10bb/100 rake environment, we need to be exploiting people to the maximum when they open themselves to be exploited(and they are). In a 3-4bb/100 rake environment, cool, but in order to beat the rake, in 50z, a reg must be basically crushing other players and taking all their dignity out of them.

And tbh, I'm probably one of the only people in the pool that is playing a reasonable strat, that is somewhat based on GTO play, the only area where I deviate very hard is with explo folds(just see that I was balanced in my river raises a while back ago when I looked at my database, and now with my triple barrels in 3-bet pots being fine).

It doesn't look like it, but I think I'm not exploiting people as I should. Some guys are just donating money if we take the right actions vs them. Sometimes I don't make a good explo play because of "oh, I should use other blockers", which is fine, because otherwise my frequencies would be way off. But sometimes it just doesn't matter, need to take the free money on the table, like here:

Guy was opening 60%, 90% cbet and 80% turn cbet, basically if he isn't a tilting monkey, raising turn with any2 is printing:

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 105.86 BB
SB: 100 BB
Hero (BB): 109.12 BB
UTG: 72.42 BB
MP: 102.64 BB
CO: 108.36 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 5 2

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) J K 4
SB bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

Turn: (14 BB, 2 players) 7
SB bets 9 BB, Hero raises to 30 BB, fold

Hero wins 30.4 BB


I'm not saying that 50z players are hard/50z is unbeatable. What I'm saying is that players have very big leaks. Let's say, 20bb/100 exploitative material per regfish at 50z vs a 5bb/100 on 500z, but on 500z, the player pool is a lot smaller, we can get reads easier on players, we play vs them more frequently and probably are capable of realizing all the "exploitative equity" vs them, maybe over-realize when the bad regs start overadjusting.

Now on 50z, even though people are butchering hands all the time, the pool is so huge that it's hard to see what each of those guys is doing, and even if we realize that, it's unlikely that we will play again vs that guy in the future, even if we play, we will end up playing the same spot probably 2x per month. We're basically not capable of realizing our "exploitative equity", out of those 20bb/100, maybe we can "realize" 2bb/100 because of the size of the pool. And general exploits aren't always good, some guys realize the population tendencies and start adjusting by doing the opposite: like cbet-checking AA and barreling always as a bluff(when the population underbluffs OTT and x/f a ton). And the sad part is that rake is 8-10bb/100, so we end up not being able to take advantage of the entire weakness of the player pool to cover the insane amount we pay in rake.

Just as an example of what I'm talking. This regfish I'm playing against has a pre-flop sizing tell. He opens for 2x with his small PPs, SCs and weak hands, so he can't have good hands there. So I basically started 3-betting him for this massive sizing with any 2 cards. Just look at how crazy I was going with this guy, I was basically 3-betting 23o vs his UTG opens(and he is a 18/12 player).

Guess since how long I'm doing this to this guy? 7 months. When I shot take on 50z I spotted his sizing tell right away and since then I'm making this explo play. Now guess how much time it took to him to see what I was up to? Yeah, in this week he saw my first showdown hand when I 5.5x him pre-flop(he went ape**** after he saw showdown lol):

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 173.34 BB
SB: 172.06 BB
Hero (BB): 103.2 BB
UTG: 114.16 BB
MP: 26.12 BB
CO: 120.82 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6 A

fold, fold, CO raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, CO calls 9 BB

Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) J 6 2
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (22.5 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (22.5 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, CO checks



Now just imagine what other people are doing to me and being able to get away? Ofc I'm not super unbalanced as this guy with such an obvious exploit vs him. But I know some areas of my game that are very exploitable if people realize what I'm doing. And there's simply no way to defend vs that.

Well, this is my opinion on 50z/100z player pool, if anyone has anything to add or disagrees with me, just post here. I'm not 100% rambling, I'm quite sad with how this is holding back my progress through the stakes, but I'm trying my best to understand the player pool and the situation I'm in so I can get out of these stakes faster.

I think you are overthinking everything way too hard..
Just get a solid playstyle and only deviate from it when you see clear exploitable spots.

Cmon, man, you're not the most example of person to talk about solid playstyle. I'm not saying you're bad, you're better than me in this game, but I'm just saying your game is way more based on reads/exploits than mine.

We've played a ton in the 16z, 50z and 100z streets and I know quite well you probably didn't put a ton of offtable work on your ranges/sizings. Your playstyle is all over the place, so it's quite annoying to see someone like that saying to me to "play more solid"




Seriously, nobody who plays solid donk there OTR vs a reg. It looks so much like AKss, I hope it's not what you had there, because it's quite a disaster to donk-jam that hand.

LOOL wtf i didnt even say you're playing bad. I said you shouldnt overthink all this **** with balance vs exploit. But whatever gl sticking to nl50 for another 500000 years with this attitude.

lolz

btw what did you have in that hand?

I had 97ss. I remember this hand.
And I jammed because you never have AK and were in your great overfolding period with anything other than the nuts.

yeah, sure, "he never has AK, so let me donk-jam my busted draw for 150% pot in less than 1s of action OTR" lol
my memory is good, I remember the timing of the hand.

And you're wrong

this donk jam does not seem too bad tbh

how would you build a donking range there?
I prefer range checking, we have only 1 combo of AK that improved and QQ. also Villain has more k9 than us

I am never folding any AK combo in villains shoes on flop or turn against these sizings so it is effectively 16 combos, the only flush draws I would be peeling turn with however are the the QsXs KsXs AsXs and combo draws, if he had indeed 97ss then it looks like a fine candidate, might wanna bluff some KsXs combos as well

why are you betting all your AK combos OOP in JT3ss?
that's a board we should be checking a lot OOP, no?

not sb vs bb no