Ok, well perhaps I'm being overly harsh. My point is that clearly whatever you're doing now is not working. So you need to change something, otherwise you will be stuck at this level forever. And I'm sure that's not what you want.

Just jam over/re-raise his flop min raise, very little is beating you (the ace of spades in your hand sucks somewhat). Once he checks turn, he either has nothing, a very weak pair potentially, or hit a hand that now beats you. Jamming river against that range is awful.

Winning at over 6bb (ev) in the last 100k hands isn't too shabby.

river jam is definitely wrong, if you bet there you should probably block bet, otherwise check/call is probably the better line

I would have reraised flop though

Then he should be up to 100nl within 3-6 months easily.

Unfortunately (I know this sounds negative, but I've seen it happen to many players), they do well for a while, then a series of bad sessions completely wipes out all their profit and they're back at square one. It's happened to rapid before, if you scroll back enough. I know it happened to cwlrs, who was a solid 200nl reg who streamed on twitch, then went on a massive losing run and had to drop right down to 25nl. As far as I know, he's given up poker (but don't quote me on that).

So don't count your chickens before they hatch. 100k hand sample is still pretty small in the grand scheme of things, particularly for aggro regs like rapid who are more prone to go on big heaters.

cwlrs had a super bad approach though, kept saying stuff that regs did like "omg this is so bad" when it wasn't actually even half bad, super close minded approach

I know all this (although I've no idea who cwlrs is), I've been here for rather a long time now.

But you said what he's doing isn't working when his results show it seems to be. Could he be doing better? Of course, but then we all could. Could he hit a downswing or things start to go wrong for him? Of course. But at the moment he's getting some coaching, his style of play seems to have altered and he's got a reasonable winrate so we can't say whatever he's doing isn't working.

Well he's clearly made a lot of mistakes in the hands he's posted (which have been pointed out by other posters). Like I say, we'll see where he is in 3-6 months.

I disagree with a lot of the stuff he does but his game clearly has something to it

thx for the insight on that hand, guys, going to jam flop next time. That's a hand that is really important for my winrate which I think I was playing poorly.

Not entirely sure what that means but ok.

The biggest pots I win are with overpairs. Always good for your win rate to go hard with overpairs in the correct spots. That flop was one of them. Lots of draws, very few hands beat you. I think you could have won his stack if you had re-raised that flop.

That could very well be true but it doesn't mean shoving is more +EV than calling. Not saying it isn't but this Phil Hellmuth hindsight expertise wouldn't be the reason why.

He probably means that even though I make some major mistakes, I probably compensate on other spots where I gain a huge edge over some players.


Calling OTF is good vs people who bluff, but vs someone who is min-raising and checking back and trying to cooler me, it was a very bad move by me. He realized his equity for a very cheap price with FE vs the bottom of my range and he had insane implied odds vs my specific hand.

Today decided to play some 100z, yesterday's discussion here made me realize I was pretty confident in my game. MMAsherdog usually says in his stream that if you're confident, you can take some more aggro shots. Also games are softer today, I'll probably go back to 50z during the weekdays.

Played really well and made 5 BI there, maybe will play more today. Won't play tomorrow, will make my first test for a government job(I can't pass, will only make for training for long tests).

Some hands

H1: vs huge nit, he is so face up that I decided to go nuts and just get his stack. If I thought he wouldn't pay me off with AA, I would have x/f river. Is it any good? Or is villain valuebetting AA or bluffing OTR if we check? He basically can't have AK OTT

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 113.66 BB
SB: 239.86 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 191.19 BB
MP: 119.81 BB
CO: 60.72 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7 7

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 7 7 5
Hero checks, BTN bets 6 BB, Hero raises to 18 BB, BTN calls 12 BB

Turn: (42.5 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 30.29 BB, BTN calls 30.29 BB

River: (103.08 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 48.71 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 48.71 BB




H2: vs unknown, his turn sizing is so nutted, meh, he was 3-tabling too, good fold?

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 251.69 BB
Hero (SB): 101.64 BB
BB: 256.76 BB
UTG: 219.31 BB
MP: 123.23 BB
CO: 88.05 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A A

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 6 6 T
Hero bets 4.28 BB, BB raises to 11 BB, Hero calls 6.72 BB

Turn: (28 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BB bets 21 BB, fold

BB wins 26.6 BB


H3: std thin valuebet vs fish OTR?

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 71.9 BB
Hero (SB): 102.18 BB
BB: 102.15 BB
UTG: 104.36 BB
MP: 462.78 BB
CO: 260.84 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 15 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 12 BB

Flop: (34 BB, 2 players) 3 6 5
Hero bets 10.69 BB, CO calls 10.69 BB

Turn: (55.38 BB, 2 players) 5
Hero bets 27.49 BB, CO calls 27.49 BB

River: (110.36 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero bets 49 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 107.86 BB

H4: which hands should I call here OTR? Which should I jam with? OTR I still can have 22,88,33 and KQ, I'm range checking turn vs this guy.

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 239.53 BB
SB: 100 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 102 BB
MP: 106.18 BB
CO: 197.3 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

UTG raises to 2.21 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.21 BB

Flop: (4.92 BB, 2 players) 2 8 3
Hero checks, UTG checks

Turn: (4.92 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero checks, UTG bets 4.2 BB, Hero calls 4.2 BB

River: (13.32 BB, 2 players) K
Hero checks, UTG bets 18.98 BB, fold

UTG wins 12.65 BB


H5: most GTO hand of today lol

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 145.17 BB
SB: 180.68 BB
BB: 275.17 BB
Hero (UTG): 100 BB
MP: 297.93 BB
CO: 134.68 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A A

Hero raises to 2.32 BB, MP calls 2.32 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (6.14 BB, 2 players) J 8 6
Hero bets 1.93 BB, MP raises to 4 BB, Hero calls 2.07 BB

Turn: (14.14 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 4.44 BB, MP calls 4.44 BB

River: (23.02 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, MP checks

Flop is too wet to just call, plenty of bad turns. More likely he's raising with equity on such a board. Because he's a semi fish, he probably won't be able to let go of that equity. I would felt AA in that spot against non-nits and put it down to a cooler if he shows better. Then again, I could be completely wrong

I already said I butchered the hand OTF and OTR, man, yeah, it's better to jam flop, and if we call flop, we should at least check the river.

Btw, day ended like this



Funny thing is that I've made effort to not overbluff, was probably underbluffing a ton and my redline kept positive.

Maybe it's just variance, meh, I played well overall.

Some hands

H1: std fold OTR? Made a big sizing because villain was unknown and looked fishy

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
SB: 97.4 BB
Hero (BB): 101 BB
UTG: 308.62 BB
MP: 50 BB
CO: 102.49 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6 7

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 6 3 6
SB checks, Hero bets 2.96 BB, SB calls 2.96 BB

Turn: (11.92 BB, 2 players) A
SB checks, Hero bets 8.49 BB, SB calls 8.49 BB

River: (28.9 BB, 2 players) 9
SB checks, Hero bets 27.46 BB, SB raises to 82.95 BB and is all-in, fold

SB wins 81.32 BB


H2: vs reg that hates to fold vs me, river is sooooo cruel =(

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
Hero (SB): 123.81 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 115.03 BB
MP: 119.98 BB
CO: 120.31 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9 T

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 6 7 5
Hero checks, BB bets 3 BB, Hero raises to 10 BB, BB calls 7 BB

Turn: (26 BB, 2 players) T
Hero checks, BB bets 17 BB, Hero calls 17 BB

River: (60 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BB checks




H3: the most controversial hand of today. I think villain don't have much incentive to donk the river with anything but a busted draw, basically the 3 never improves him, so since I didn't block any FD, I went for the bluff, trying to make him lay down a busted draw with higher SDV, used the smaller sizing that I thought that would give me some credibility(without letting him min-3-bet me as a re-bluff or call with a midpair). Bad?

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 100.34 BB
BB: 365.11 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 132.34 BB
CO: 216.74 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T 8

fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, MP calls 3 BB

Flop: (9.5 BB, 2 players) 9 Q 7
MP checks, Hero bets 4.69 BB, MP calls 4.69 BB

Turn: (18.88 BB, 2 players) 3
MP checks, Hero bets 13.46 BB, MP calls 13.46 BB

River: (45.8 BB, 2 players) 3
MP bets 22 BB, Hero raises to 60 BB, MP calls 38 BB



H4: vs 24/20 guy, his line is so nitty, this hand made me think about how nitty 100z really is.

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 115.23 BB
Hero (SB): 106.27 BB
BB: 143.04 BB
UTG: 109 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 149.89 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T Q

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, UTG calls 9 BB

Flop: (25 BB, 2 players) K 5 Q
Hero bets 7.86 BB, UTG calls 7.86 BB

Turn: (40.72 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, UTG bets 13 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

River: (66.72 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, UTG checks





H5: Never folding, right?

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
Hero (SB): 103.57 BB
BB: 59.27 BB
UTG: 69.29 BB
MP: 132.02 BB
CO: 297.78 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A A

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) Q 5 3
Hero bets 4.28 BB, BB raises to 56.27 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 51.99 BB

Turn: (118.54 BB, 2 players) 2

River: (118.54 BB, 2 players) T




H6: vs nit that got AA vs me like 5 times in a row, he was calling QQ pre OOP vs a 3-bet CO VS BTN. OTR it was an easy fold vs his line, but leveled myself into calling. He had 10% 3-bet and 18% re-steal, probably got lucky in the sample. Considered folding OTF too vs his sizing. Should I feel really bad for making calls like this? I feel I'm calling AQ pre-flop just to somehow semi-bluff people out of the pot, or hope to see a bet-bet-check and see showdown.

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 95.33 BB
SB: 164.55 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 157.89 BB
Hero (MP): 101.5 BB
CO: 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A Q

fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.32 BB, SB raises to 12 BB, fold, Hero calls 9.68 BB, fold

Flop: (27.32 BB, 2 players) 6 Q 8
SB bets 17.3 BB, Hero calls 17.3 BB

Turn: (61.92 BB, 2 players) J
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (61.92 BB, 2 players) 4
SB bets 43 BB, Hero calls 43 BB



H7: vs king of nits I have a good read on lol!

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 109.8 BB
SB: 60.93 BB
BB: 140.82 BB
UTG: 100.53 BB
Hero (MP): 100 BB
CO: 127.82 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

UTG calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 4 BB, fold, UTG raises to 13 BB, fold, SB calls 9 BB

Flop: (28 BB, 2 players) 8 7 9
SB checks, UTG bets 87.53 BB and is all-in, SB calls 47.93 BB and is all-in

Turn: (123.86 BB, 2 players) 9

River: (123.86 BB, 2 players) K



H8: vs guy that was raising tons of turns and almost never folding flops =(

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 50 BB
BB: 102.51 BB
UTG: 208.51 BB
MP: 106.79 BB
CO: 260.26 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8 A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, SB calls 1.82 BB, fold

Flop: (5.64 BB, 2 players) K K T
SB checks, Hero bets 1.77 BB, SB calls 1.77 BB

Turn: (9.18 BB, 2 players) 9
SB checks, Hero bets 6.54 BB, SB raises to 18.53 BB, Hero raises to 95.91 BB and is all-in, SB calls 27.38 BB and is all-in

River: (101 BB, 2 players) J
Players agreed to run it twice.

River #2: (101 BB, 2 players) 8



H9: vs fish, good call?

PokerStars - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 346.45 BB
SB: 279.76 BB
BB: 51.05 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 141.51 BB
Hero (CO): 103.58 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, BTN calls 2.32 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (6.14 BB, 2 players) T 5 5
Hero checks, BTN bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Turn: (12.14 BB, 2 players) 2
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (12.14 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, BTN bets 6 BB, Hero calls 6 BB

Played quite a messy session today, was lacking confidence because of the last session at 100z. Made some optimistic plays that went well. Will quit looking at the results until end of month.

VAMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

H1: vs nit, always jamming river with this hand/action, right?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 87.72 BB
SB: 137.88 BB
Hero (BB): 105.72 BB
UTG: 123.66 BB
MP: 104 BB
CO: 105.08 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8 7

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (5.5 BB, 2 players) 6 3 5
Hero checks, UTG bets 3.48 BB, Hero raises to 11 BB, UTG raises to 29.14 BB, Hero calls 18.14 BB

Turn: (63.78 BB, 2 players) A
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: (63.78 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 74.08 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 60.6 BB


H2: vs reg that hates to fold and also never fast-play hands, I usually don't try to bluff these guys pretty hard, but he had so few slowplays OTR when the 4 paired and I have so many value combos that his SDV range will have a tough time calling the river. OFC it's better with As, but this is a spot where I'll have very few bluffs available to me, right? He is also calling OTF and OTT more than he should.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 107.6 BB
SB: 100.26 BB
BB: 105.98 BB
UTG: 582.88 BB
MP: 144.82 BB
CO: 254.74 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q A

fold, fold, CO raises to 2.2 BB, Hero raises to 7 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 4.8 BB

Flop: (15.5 BB, 2 players) J K 4
CO checks, Hero bets 4.86 BB, CO calls 4.86 BB

Turn: (25.22 BB, 2 players) 3
CO checks, Hero bets 17.98 BB, CO calls 17.98 BB

River: (61.18 BB, 2 players) 4
CO checks, Hero bets 77.76 BB and is all-in, CO calls 77.76 BB




H3: >D

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 107 BB
SB: 729.94 BB
BB: 109.46 BB
UTG: 107.5 BB
MP: 92.1 BB
CO: 105.24 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7 6

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, fold, CO calls 2.5 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, fold, UTG raises to 25 BB, fold, Hero calls 13 BB

Flop: (54 BB, 2 players) Q T 5
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: (54 BB, 2 players) 7
UTG bets 14 BB, Hero calls 14 BB

River: (82 BB, 2 players) 9
UTG checks, Hero checks



H4: going for some sick vamo action OTR lol. Guy tanked for a while before folding

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 206.46 BB
SB: 107.28 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 190.26 BB
MP: 113.74 BB
CO: 298.18 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8 J

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 2.5 BB, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (5 BB, 2 players) J 7 A
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (5 BB, 2 players) K
SB bets 3.18 BB, Hero calls 3.18 BB

River: (11.36 BB, 2 players) 4
SB bets 7.24 BB, Hero raises to 46 BB, fold

Hero wins 24.54 BB


H5: vs whale, is this a good call? I called because of the added equity of the Ac.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 183.84 BB
SB: 99.22 BB
BB: 101.5 BB
UTG: 109.16 BB
MP: 297.52 BB
CO: 43.68 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A K

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 6 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) J 9 T
CO bets 34.68 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 34.68 BB

Turn: (88.86 BB, 2 players) 4

River: (88.86 BB, 2 players) 8




H6: this one looks terrible, but this guy was a really weird player, he has basically only one sizing that I saw him betting with in post-flop situations, and it's pot. Even in 3-bet pots. He has a 23 VPIP, so I went for the calldown. TT is a good hand here to call, right? Because we don't block semi-bluffs and we don't expect him to valuebet AQ. Also with the paired board it's way more unlikely he has a FH. He also was betting at a high frequency on all streets in my sample.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 254 BB
SB: 80.72 BB
BB: 84.28 BB
Hero (UTG): 102.5 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 164.88 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

Hero raises to 2.32 BB, MP calls 2.32 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (6.14 BB, 2 players) 6 4 5
Hero checks, MP bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

Turn: (16.14 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, MP bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

River: (40.14 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero checks, MP bets 43 BB, Hero calls 43 BB

some mistakes in those hands. for example, h1 you rep very little with a flop raise (but river bet is good once turn checks through). h2, the river bet is not bad, but people generally don't fold Kx on that runout (which is what he most likely has once he calls turn), so check back and hope he shows a missed draw. h3 is spew, call or fold pre and definitely fold to the 4bet. h4 is spew (although it worked out this time). h5, probably not enough equity to call against any half decent range. h6, reasonable call if he has a fair number of bluffs, but not sure why you think Qx won't valuebet, given that most of your range is middle pocket pairs by the river.

"H2: vs reg that hates to fold and also never fast-play hands, I usually don't try to bluff these guys pretty hard, but he had so few slowplays OTR when the 4 paired and I have so many value combos that his SDV range will have a tough time calling the river. OFC it's better with As, but this is a spot where I'll have very few bluffs available to me, right? He is also calling OTF and OTT more than he should."
but apparently you are bluffing all the AQo here so you have at least 12 combos of bluff, add those random QTs 56s you will have quite a lot of bluffs actually

Bolded is absurd Rapidesh, gotta find a way to move away from seeking out "sick moves" and focus on improving your hand reading instead. His range isn't very wide here so it's pretty straight forward to break it down and see why c/f would be a >100bb EV mistake.

Why confused?

Didn't see part where he said reg hates to fold. Check back river in that case. That is a 77bb mistake and those really add up over time.

Why is peeling a four bet with 67s so spew?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Raising flop is standard and good for all the usual reasons.

I think 67s is fine