idk what spot you're talking about. link?

I don't disagree that Doug should deviate slightly from GTO vs Hellmuth.

do you really believe anything hellmuth says when he's on air

Massively.

https://youtu.be/J7p5_fhvJ9s?t=3524 My bad there is no literal flipping of a coin, I could swear there was... must have been another hand. Listen to Deeb though, everything he says is on point during the hand.

I used to think he was playing up for the cameras yet you hear stories of his antics at the table outside of broadcasts, one such where he got bluffed by Spraggy and proceeded to call him something like a "stupid ******* kid" it's not some kind of act for entertainment he's just vile.. that's how it is. I have no idea why he is so popular & well liked, Baffling. Anyone else who behaved like that in any other walk of life they'd probably lose some teeth and would get no respect from anyone at all, but he has like 14 bracelets so he's exempt I guess?

Thanks for link. Funny just seeing the graphics the whole hh just came to mind . I can see why Doug called there. Perhaps not the greatest call vs. Phil. I think Phil's going to lead his bluffs a lot and tend to call too much with hands that Doug thinks he's going to bluff (QcJx types). Though I do disagree that Phil won't raise straights otr after turn goes x/x but they are mostly going in his leading river range.

I certainly agree with this. Having watched him since those WSOP episodes in 03/04 or whenever he became popular, it's amusing that even if it's a character he's playing, that people are drawn to him.

I think doug's game is very strong and even though he loses the opportunity to make good laydowns from time to time, his approach is very +EV.

Also he is exploiting people without realizing, he thinks he is playing gto while in fact he is playing an explo strat where the counter-exploits aren't as obvious/won't print insane vs him if they work.

And he said he adjusts vs people by making small deviations, like folding/calling/bluffing/trapping marginal/mixed frequency stuff which I like a lot. He won't go bananas with a hand that is 100% a fold (unless he doesn't know better or he is tilted ofc).

And he was snap folding TPTK vs minraises ott while playing the micros, so it's not like he just treat everyone as a gto player all day.

And obv that hand is a fold all day vs hellmuth, but it's fine if he loses EV in that spot if he owns people in lots of other spots. Would folding there increase his EV? Sure, but if he starts folding there and changes his game drastically it would probably hurt him more imo.

Also it's easy for us that played for hundreds of thousands of hands vs lots of nits to say it's an easy fold, he played vs sauce, jungle and ike a lot, it's way harder for him to fold that than for us.

What???

This is the problem, Phil and Doug aren't gonna play 100k hands together online and obsess over each others game, its a one off situation and a single spot that will never happen vs Phil again (definitely if Doug has really quit) so why would he need to be balanced? vs a good thinking player then you adjust yeah you'd likely sigh call but come on, it's Hellmuth. You're basically saying if he makes one exploitative play against a single person then he'll just completely forget to play GTO against anyone else.. you can use both strats accordingly, it's not difficult.

It's part of your problem too I think, you read into the ridiculous amounts of numbers you have on your HUD from a nothing sample, in fact some of them you'd need >100k hands to actually be worth even looking at them let alone basing your game on them. Yet you make bad plays and justify it with tiny samples. I haven't used a HUD in 3 years, mainly because the sites I play on don't allow it but you realise they're not actually all that important, my games improved massively since. It might even be beneficial to you to turn it off for a while, failing that then just make a new one, remove the 100's of stats you look at all the time and just use a small number of the more important ones.

As if phil never blufs, actually the most ridic bluffs i have ever seen are pbb from phil. Hand vs jungle immediately comes to my mind

I actually randomly thought about the HUD thing when away from my computer for some reason. I really think you'd benefit from using only basic HUD stats. Basic being vpip/pfr/3b. ofc, I expect this to fall on deaf ears because how can you #explo people but worth a mention anyhow. Get a small description of player that way and don't deviate so far from where you should be against various player types without actual solid reads.

Hellmuth probably overbluffs in a lot of spots, not this one though. It would require him to turn hands into bluffs.

if doug has anything to answer for it's teaching hundreds of new players how to play hold 'em... i went from 5nl to 500nl doing nothing but playing poker and watching doug polk yt videos

I don't give much attention to stats that require a lot of hands, the stats I use the most are pfr, vpip, cbet flop, f3b, cbet turn, fold to steal, rfi from SB/btn/co and 3-bet steal and 4-bet+/fold to 4-bet(only if those are way higher lower than they should, like 0/6 fold to 4-bet, 5/5 4-bet, if they are reasonable I ignore them, also I combine with other stats like how tight their 3-bets are, so it makes sense for them to underfold to 4-bets, if 2 stats are conflicting I dismiss it as variance and ignore both)

Totes agree
However if you have a replenishable br I would be much more aggressive


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He should put some sort of disclaimer at the start saying something like the advice given is mainly applicable for 500z or the equivalent where balance truly matters, other new micro players who follow his advice like gospel haven't made anywhere near as much money as they should have because they run a stupid bluff vs a station or call off light vs a guy from Kazakhstan who has a picture of his dog as his avatar, plays once a month and barely knows hand rankings. He's probably thinking next month how large he's gonna make his bets as you call off too light and how hard he's gonna exploit you.

What you're missing is that there are tons of regs in your anonymous pools that know how to exploit the pool's most common leaks and you very likely have the same leaks (by the way you talking I think it's very likely).

Also some gto lines gain EV over a street to lose on another vs non-optimal players, so even though you might be bluffing the river with a hand you shouldn't bluff the turn with, you might be gaining EV OTT that would compensate the EV you lost OTR. If vs most players that approach is breakeven but you will print with that river bluff vs some players you are making money.

Obv it isn't black and white like that.

But you should also take into account the consistency one loses if he start deviating too much/new tilt opportunities that end up losing way more EV.

I mean, I was a micro guy who followed his advice as best I could and I flew through the micros/mid stakes solely based on his free strategy he gives away on youtube.

where did you get the idea that doug is anti-exploit? I've seen most of his yt content and been coached by him, and I've never gotten that. of course, you can't exploit anyone if you don't know what the proper play is (gto), so that's the most important thing. his whole thing is that you shouldn't make massive adjustments to try to exploit people - you should have a good strategy and make minor deviations when you find opportunities

Was this meant to be coherent?

Unless you retired due to some injury/disability compensation, most people would actually have less spare time if they retired at 21.

Everyone has leaks of course but it doesn't bother me at all I'm doing fine thanks, last time I checked i had around 8x your w/r and have never played anything close to GTO in the games I play on as there is not one person who has an exploit on me, not a soul. There are about 10 regs who play on there in total who are all about as ABC as you can get and the rest are Korean & Chinese fish throwing around money. While you're still wasting your time on Stars and lining the pockets of scumbags.

Then we just disagree, I think you should be making massive adjustments.

tbf I think if doug played in our games he would make big adjustments. you just can't make any adjustments without having some understanding of baseline strat, and you shouldn't make big adjustments unless you have a big enough sample on the player or pool to justify it.

I'd 100% prefer to learn a good strategy.

Saves the headache, you get higher hands/hour and the progression between each stake is more natural. Stumbling upon a winning exploitative style that crushes the current stake but when you move up is plain losing/a lot of work before you beat that new stake doesn't make sense to me.

You aren't playing (and studying) poker to have your end goal as beating 100z...

Interesting, what would you be doing if you retired at 21 that would mean you don't have spare time?

Well, to start with I wouldn't retire, I'd continue to run a business. But, if I did, I would get heavily involved in microfinance and preventing human trafficking, those are two things that have always interested me. You?

Playing League/Apex and sitting on **********

I'd literally do nothing at all if I had the money to.

lol I would not even do nothing at all even if I was paid to