should underbluff by default when you are not sure where equilibrium lies, and value bet too thin cant be too bad either, I mean thats what king10clubs has done his whole career

I still don't have my CO ranges memorized, always tank a bit before opebing 74s from the CO. I didn't know solvers checked KTo 100% ott, will have to take a look at that.

And as I said, I agree H4 and H8 were poorly played. But overbluffing isn't always bad, population definitely underdefends in most spots.

That's why I said underbluffing is the strongest exploit.

btw, some overbets for value I've made

PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 220.77 BB
BB: 187.37 BB
UTG: 120.35 BB
MP: 131.95 BB
CO: 101 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J J

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, SB calls 1.82 BB, fold

Flop: (5.64 BB, 2 players) 2 A J
SB checks, Hero bets 7.4 BB, SB calls 7.4 BB

Turn: (20.43 BB, 2 players) 5
SB checks, Hero bets 14.56 BB, SB calls 14.56 BB

River: (49.55 BB, 2 players) J
SB checks, Hero bets 75.73 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 48.18 BB


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 100.5 BB
BB: 99.17 BB
UTG: 51.38 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 177.18 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero calls 6.68 BB

Flop: (19 BB, 2 players) K 3 J
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (19 BB, 2 players) A
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (19 BB, 2 players) K
SB checks, Hero bets 34 BB, fold

Hero wins 18.05 BB


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 128.28 BB
SB: 382.57 BB
BB: 173.4 BB
UTG: 129.98 BB
MP: 102.22 BB
CO: 105 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 5 5

fold, fold, CO raises to 2.25 BB, Hero calls 2.25 BB, fold, BB calls 1.25 BB

Flop: (7.25 BB, 3 players) A 3 A
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (7.25 BB, 3 players) 2
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

River: (7.25 BB, 3 players) 5
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets 15 BB, fold, fold

Hero wins 6.89 BB


this one is so bad lol

PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100.5 BB
SB: 100.54 BB
BB: 118.05 BB
UTG: 508.84 BB
MP: 98 BB
CO: 110.92 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2 7

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, BB calls 1.32 BB

Flop: (5.14 BB, 2 players) 5 4 Q
BB checks, Hero bets 1.62 BB, BB calls 1.62 BB

Turn: (8.37 BB, 2 players) 6
BB checks, Hero bets 8 BB, BB calls 8 BB

River: (24.37 BB, 2 players) 8
BB checks, Hero bets 88.57 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 23.15 BB


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 102.57 BB
SB: 388.08 BB
BB: 225.68 BB
UTG: 643.65 BB
MP: 8.96 BB
CO: 102.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6 T

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, BB calls 1.32 BB

Flop: (5.14 BB, 2 players) 9 8 7
BB checks, Hero bets 4.4 BB, BB calls 4.4 BB

Turn: (13.93 BB, 2 players) 5
BB checks, Hero bets 9.93 BB, BB calls 9.93 BB

River: (33.78 BB, 2 players) 3
BB checks, Hero bets 85.93 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 32.41 BB

PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 101.02 BB
SB: 69.05 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 210.62 BB
MP: 50.01 BB
CO: 114.37 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J 9

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, BB calls 1.32 BB

Flop: (5.14 BB, 2 players) 7 5 T
BB checks, Hero bets 4.4 BB, BB calls 4.4 BB

Turn: (13.93 BB, 2 players) 2
BB checks, Hero bets 14 BB, BB calls 14 BB

River: (41.93 BB, 2 players) 8
BB checks, Hero bets 80.3 BB and is all-in, BB calls 79.29 BB and is all-in

Hero shows J 9 (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 64%, Flop 27%, Turn 14%)
BB shows T 8 (Two Pair, Tens and Eights)
(Pre 36%, Flop 73%, Turn 86%)
Hero wins 199.13 BB


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 556.39 BB
SB: 42.59 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 86.96 BB
MP: 97.83 BB
CO: 212.06 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q K

fold, fold, CO raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (5.5 BB, 2 players) 4 8 4
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (5.5 BB, 2 players) K
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (5.5 BB, 2 players) 5
Hero bets 10 BB, fold

Hero wins 5.23 BB


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 101 BB
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 203.84 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 401.99 BB
CO: 140.86 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4 4

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.33 BB, Hero calls 1.83 BB, fold

Flop: (5.66 BB, 2 players) 8 Q J
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (5.66 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (5.66 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero bets 10 BB, fold

Hero wins 5.38 BB


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 292.3 BB
Hero (SB): 106.32 BB
BB: 114.58 BB
UTG: 100.9 BB
MP: 30.08 BB
CO: 115.23 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A 9

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB raises to 9 BB, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (18 BB, 2 players) 2 5 9
Hero checks, BB bets 8.53 BB, Hero calls 8.53 BB

Turn: (35.06 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, BB checks

River: (35.06 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero bets 88.79 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 33.69 BB

Yeah but... but WWSF and stuff.

It looks like I overvalue wwsf and stuff, but I don't. I'm aware that there are low wwsf players who are very tough to play against and that they're not passive vs everyone, actually that's just their approach vs overall population.

The biggest losers in the game have a >55 wwsf and the best approach vs them is to play a passive game with low wwsf which will ultimately allow him to realize a lot of equity and give you lots of coolers (reducing even more your wwsf but making you a lot of money in the process).

But I don't see much incentive to play passive vs most of the population, so on average it's more likely for a reg with 45 wwsf to be mediocre than a 49-50, that stat could be an indicative of massive leaks in their game, but not always. There are lots of ways of getting into 45 wwsf or 50, the important thing is how you get there, not the stat itself.

Not saying that you’re wrong in principal. But artificially inflating your AF and WWSF by turning 0 freq plays into high freq ‘exploits’ is a really dangerous and high variance approach

FWIW my WWSF over the last 200k hands or so has been 47-48. I’d like it to be higher, and I’m trying to get there, but not by just mashing large sizing with a bunch of **** bluffs.

Playing to hit certain stats is ****ing stupid. Just play well and let the stats get to where they go.

Yes, I agree that a lot of people think they have a lot of incentive to go nuts on very narrow spots where you will have to use some sort of RNG to stay balanced, while in fact going balanced is a more profitable approach.

But these guys do it because their opposition gives them incentive to. As an example, that AQ hand is insane, probably the biggest deviation I've made (even bigger than the time I folded bottom set vs a double barrel w no flush ott sometime ago). But if the guy will let me run him over I could make that abysmal play all day and it will end up going well for me. River bluff raising ranges are very weird because the math involved is so much unfavourable for the raiser, making it very easy to overbluff if you have a bluffing range.

The problem imo is when someone makes plays like that and think they're right, that they're god's gift to poker. I know how much I'm overbluffing in that hand and I know I wouldn't make that play unless I underestimated villain by a lot. Most people who make those plays think they're std and have 0 clue on how much they are overbluffing in that spot.

Now if I know I will end up overbluffing and villain is good enough (or bad enough) to punish me for doing that, I will never do it. Sometimes it's good to think "this is terrible, but I will do it anyways", now doing terrible stuff without knowing it's bad, that's where it's really dangerous territorry.

Read my post and you will see I'm advocating the opposite.

The majority of wwsf increase will happen in small spots where you stab and villain folds, not 3x potting the river. As well as making more thin valuebets/equity denial plays ott/otf, defending more vs turn probes and float bets. Those huge overbets/river raises have almost 0 impact on wwsf because of how rare they happen.

nah. you started it like this:

why continue after that? #justification

Wow, had to fold sooo much today, meh, so annoying. Not sure if I played well, probably first session that I had a weak mental game in the month so far

H1: vs 48/8 whale, he snap raised in there, never good, right?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 200.16 BB
SB: 41.12 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 272.92 BB
MP: 432.5 BB
CO: 101.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K K

UTG calls 1 BB, MP raises to 4.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 16 BB, fold, MP calls 11.5 BB

Flop: (33.5 BB, 2 players) 4 A J
Hero bets 8.28 BB, MP raises to 57 BB, fold

MP wins 47.56 BB


H2: vs aggro guy, he wasn't a massive spewtard though, the annoying thing is that he was barreling turn a lot, but the board doesn't help him that much in finding that many bluffs. I hate spots like that, I'm such a pussy, meh. Should I call?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 154.68 BB
SB: 111.64 BB
BB: 72.24 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 111.16 BB
Hero (CO): 124.66 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A J

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, fold, SB raises to 10 BB, BB calls 9 BB, Hero calls 7.68 BB

Flop: (30 BB, 3 players) A 4 3
SB bets 10.54 BB, fold, Hero calls 10.54 BB

Turn: (51.08 BB, 2 players) 6
SB bets 17.96 BB, Hero calls 17.96 BB

River: (87 BB, 2 players) 4
SB bets 73.14 BB and is all-in, fold

SB wins 83 BB


H3: With the shortstack in there it tightens up my range and villain's range a lot in the spot, I like this fold!

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 114.78 BB
SB: 209.02 BB
BB: 193.04 BB
UTG: 45.46 BB
Hero (MP): 100 BB
CO: 94.44 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

UTG raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, CO calls 6 BB, fold, SB raises to 22.3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

SB wins 21 BB


H4: vs station reg, quite hard to find natural bluffs in this runnout imo

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 238.68 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 110.32 BB
UTG: 56.4 BB
MP: 105.96 BB
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9 8

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.32 BB, BTN raises to 7.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 22 BB, BTN calls 14.5 BB

Flop: (45.5 BB, 2 players) 9 T 3
Hero checks, BTN bets 17.28 BB, Hero calls 17.28 BB

Turn: (80.06 BB, 2 players) A
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (80.06 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero bets 60.72 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 76.06 BB


H5: vs reg, this board is so annoying, he didn't look that bad imo, he was only with a very low x/r and I had a note on him that he loved trapping. But with a 7% x/r in srp in 4k hands and (1/30) in 3bp, it's safe to say he isn't x/r AJ in there for value. I timed out in there, not that easy to find natural bluffs in there, I'm not losing much by letting his 9Ts win the pot and I block his QTss/QTcc that could be doing this as a bluff, he could have AA/KK too since he likes trapping, who knows lol. I think AJ is a stronger call vs that guy. What do you guys think?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 127.68 BB
SB: 70.46 BB
BB: 144.6 BB
UTG: 367.46 BB
MP: 63.88 BB
CO: 102.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, CO raises to 2.26 BB, Hero raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 5.74 BB

Flop: (17.5 BB, 2 players) J 3 8
CO checks, Hero bets 8.64 BB, CO raises to 27 BB, fold

CO wins 33.04 BB


H6: vs very special person

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
SB: 298.66 BB
Hero (BB): 103.7 BB
UTG: 143.6 BB
MP: 139.38 BB
CO: 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 6 5

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, MP calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 14 BB, fold, MP calls 11.5 BB, fold

Flop: (33 BB, 2 players) T 3 2
Hero bets 8.16 BB, MP raises to 55.84 BB, Hero raises to 89.7 BB and is all-in, MP calls 33.86 BB

Turn: (212.4 BB, 2 players) K

River: (212.4 BB, 2 players) 7

eh? how many years have you been playing poker again? lul

I think it's the opposite.

how many years have you been paying my rent? lul

most likely zero years, unless you grind 50nl for a living

He's (correctly) saying that money goes up the food chain. Just look at Rapid for proof of this.

In theory, yes. In reality, almost all the money these days goes to the poker site, because very few people are moving up.

I changed my preflop ranges recently, using monker ranges atm + tightened a bit because of the insane rake.

that's really not true. there's lots of people moving through the stakes still.

that said, my previous reply came off kinda bitter and conceited so I apologize. just super drunk. also mirage, I beat 500nl and I don't have my CO ranges (or any ranges) memorized. there's way more important things than that

FWIW you should play quite wider than solvers say on the CO and BU. It's a bad assumption to think that the value of position is the same vs human players as it is vs solvers. Aggressively betting in position will always be better in practice than it is in theory.

well you gotta take into account that the human who is opening from CO and BU is also much worse than solvers, thus opening wider maaay not be that good of an idea, unless there's a rec in the bigblind, then by all means go crazy my friend

I view overaggression in position as a gambit type strategy. The quality of the opposition has to be extremely high to make up for having to play multiple streets OOP with stack depth behind.

I mean it could be a not so bad approach at the lower stakes, can't see how it would do well at z500 and above though, regs play pretty decent from bigblind in general