hellmuth, dnegs, matt berkey are millionaires because of poker, just because a player is in HS it doesn't mean he is the best ever, there are so many good regs that ran like **** their entire lives and can't make their breakthrough and get a good enough roll to print in Macau.

Judge for yourself, going to break this hand down with as much detail as I can(it was the first one I've seen in ages in the HS thread and found it interesting). Going to do it without running any sims, just with the knowledge I have from the back of my head, btw

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $100/$200 - 2 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

makeboifin (SB): $35,977.14 (180 bb)
Iimitless (BB): $21,022.71 (105 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($300)
makeboifin (SB) raises to $500, Iimitless (BB) calls $300

Flop: ($1,000) 5 7 9 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, makeboifin (SB) checks

Turn: ($1,000) 7 (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) checks, makeboifin (SB) checks

River: ($1,000) K (2 players)
Iimitless (BB) bets $249.25, makeboifin (SB) raises to $997, Iimitless (BB) raises to $7,360, makeboifin (SB) raises to $35,477.14 (all-in), Iimitless (BB) calls $13,162.71 (all-in)

Total pot: $42,045.42 (Rake: $3)

Showdown:
makeboifin (SB) shows K K (a full house, Kings full of Sevens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 83%, Flop: 61%, Turn: 9%, River: 100%)

Iimitless (BB) shows 3 J (a flush, Jack high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 17%, Flop: 39%, Turn: 91%, River: 0%)

makeboifin (SB) wins $42,042.42


Flop

This type of flop is notorious for how easy it is for IP to mess his x back range, OOP can find a lot of x/r and defend well vs cbets, so obv IP just can't range and has to play with bets or checks and somewhat straightforward with his cbet(without many BS equity overbluffs + overprotecting his x back range with more pairs than A highs/K highs type of hands).

Given all that, range checking for IP is a somewhat reasonable simplification for IP. I will start by guessing that both players take a range x back range as a start for the IP range (although KK is a high frequency one on that texture). Not saying makeboifin is range checking btw, I think he probably has a betting range in there that he knows how maneuver across most runnouts and is balanced across that part of the game-tree.

I'm saying that he probably has a well-protected x back range, with enough pairs and not as much air as we see people on average in that spot after x back(probably has slightly less air than pio).

Turn

Given the assumption that IP's x back range can't be messed with, OOP can simplify and range check OTT, which I think it's what limitless is doing (that specific turn favors IP range too, so one more reason for him to check everything in there).



So KK is probably a mix between x and bet OTT in pio, but if limitless is range x the turn, then it's an easy x back again with that hand. So far both players played well.

River

Fine small bet by limitless, but his 3-bet sizing is too large imo. By using this sizing he is basically saying that makeboifin won't get to that river with many FHs/ higher flushes, which I don't think it's true, given all assumptions I've made above, I think he is actually gets to the river with lot of strong hands, even 99. Sure that both players have like a lot of air/random pairs before bets/raises start OTR, but his sizing is just too big for a paired board vs a competent opponent. Should probably make it to $4k.



Now vs the jam, I think it's just a fold, I'm pretty sure pio folds that most of the time

Now if you're looking for an explo reason to justify a fold(or a call), then you have to think about makeboifin's situation: he is in a spot where he will get to with few value combos and an insane amount of air hands after x back twice. He will have so many bluff candidates for the jam that it's very easy to mess up and end up overbluffing. I think that the only hands that pio jams in there will be some trips it turns into a bluff at a very low frequency, like 5% of 7x (yep, in these spots pio loves turning trips into bluffs, it's so narrow and blocking most of villain's FHs is strong.

And he is facing a spewier reg. So if you were in his shoes, would you risk overbluffing 300% more than you should by not knowing the exact amount of RNG or would you just never bluff(and be afraid that limitless would exploit back and fold 100% of his flushes?).

There's another variable here which is that makeboifin's bluffs in that spot are also his best bluffcatchers, so maybe he ends up overcalling those instead of turning them into a bluff if he thinks limitless is overbluffing.

And as I've already stated here before:

underbluffing vs a gto calling range end up extracting a very similar EV than a GTO betting range does, so even if limitless is defending exactly as he should, he won't get that much punished in that spot by never bluffing.

Flop: check range is def a big mistake, very convinced makeboifin doesnt do that

Turn: def not check range in limitless shoes, your argument is that it's good vs nodelocked checkback on flop, but you assumed that makeboifin doesn't check range

River: no clue, probably close to 0EV call in theory

Not sure what this hand proved tbh. No one said limitless is best ever or even close to it, but to say the best 100z regs are better than him is absurd. He's been battling two of the best HUNL players in the world, and they have since quit playing vs him (and he's not even a HU player).

Link?

rapidesh since you're on it why don't you analyze some hands from Stefan possibly the biggest winner on 6max streets in the last twelve months of the players who have good volume online.

Didnt read your analysis. Its just absurd to think 200z regs are anywhere near limitless level, he would wipe the floor with every single 500z reg (obv if you ignore guys like ospiel). Reminds me of that post when you said you know more about theory than 90% of 200 playerpool (after having pio for like 2 months lmao). Id really advise you to be more humble.

Yea im sure when rapidesh sees Stefan’s hands we will learn he’d get crushed by nl25 beasts

I read it, a lot of ridiculous assumptions (like thinking limitless is going to check range OTT or that makeboifen is range xing flop) but even if you're analysis was on the right track (how much work have you put in HU also?), you're going to come off like an ass when you criticize a guy who's cut his teeth in the highest stakes online when you haven't proven you can beat one of the softer games in the world.

As Jose says, just humble yourself dude. You have so much to improve on and yes even your 'theory' knowledge needs a lot of work because I see so many misapplied concepts in your hand in every post.

I do think you have potential in the game, but you're never gonna get anywhere with that attitude tbh

how the **** could anyone think IP range checks 973s flop HU?

to people asking about Limitless's blog on pokestrategy, here it is:

https://pl.pokerstrategy.com/forum/t...=383186&page=1

he is "vicktor", the blog starts in 2014 with him playing nl10 with 280$ bankroll, having started with free 2$ from 888. He is still updating it today.

the blog is in Polish, but I guess you could try and google translate it

/r/iamverysmart

The goal to play poker is plain and simple to win $, not to make it complicated philosophical theory

Life time zone graph?

Just when I started thinking that maybe, just maybe, you started becoming less delusional, you say there are 200z regs better than limitless

Yeah it's very easy to look in the HSNL thread which obviously cherry picks crazy hands/ showdowns and assume guys are bad. But imagine if your worst hands were posted on the internet every time?

For me would for sure make me appear to be an absolute whale. Poker is a fairly efficient market particularly for guys like limitless open sitting 40k on GG, if he was as bad as you claim, people would be lining up to play him.

RE your analysis; there are plenty of options other than rangebet or rangecheck, and I on 97x in HU I think that almost all of them are better.

yeah and also this

Thanks, I will bookmark to read it later. I've read Stefan blog (not updated anymore) in the somewhat distant past with google translate. BTW I've found bing translate is better for eastern european languages vs google translate though it doesn't seem to be working with pokerstrategy site.

Edited: of course Poland is more central europe than eastern, so better rephrase it as slavic languages are possibly better in bing translate as other eastern slavic languages

I'm up to the challenge, gonna analyze every single stefan hand you post here.

Btw what are your thoughts on range x ott in limitless shoes and his sizing otr?

You didn't read it, if you had read you would know I've said that makeboifin is probably playing with bets and checks otf and not range x back

There's a big difference between 973 and 975

This was legit the first hand I saw in HS in ages, didn't cherry pick, tbh limitless didn't butcher it badly fwiw, the most often result for him would to be called by a bluffcatcher or seeing a fold and gg.

He is obviously a good player, but I think you guys overestimate how good he is based on his results. I try to he as neutral as possible when judging the quality of a poker player. I judge a poker player more for his plays than his results.

As far as I know he could be printing a lot by owning whales in macau and sitting at $40k in a high raked site where pretty much no regs are rolled for that and even if they were, how are they supposed to beat him above the rake? Even on nl10k on stars, who would risk a huge variance game vs a reg that plays those stakes for ages? There are way better spots for a smart reg climbing the high stakes than battling limitless, risking a huge chunk of his roll for 1-2bb of EV in a game of sick variance.

I like studying high level poker strats, I treat it as a hobby and don't count it as study time btw

sometimes I find myself struggling to understand limi's lines. I convince myself that, while they may be bad, I'm not qualified to assess by looking in my wallet.

I'd advise you to stop beating your head against a wall.

lol rapidesh, both players are probably mixing both flop and turn play there especially with their holdings, limitless can value bet very thin for this size river, prob as low as pocket 3 or something, then makeboifin has to raise a whole bunch of Kx for value, limitless knowing that raises big with flush to force makeboifin to defend sometimes with his Kx that have a club in them, he can defend by either calling or jamming some whatever K9 hands or just whatever Kx doesn’t matter too much, limitless then has a decision, decided to call this time and ran into top of range

nobody good is “range checking” on any board in HU fwiw

That was a whole lot of words without really saying anything. Ever thought about becoming a politician?

Makes a lot of sense, tbh after reading this I've realized that I've approached this hand by thinking more about my point of view than theirs. I focus on simplifications because even though they end up being exploitable, they manage to capture well the EV of the pot our range is supposed to get and it would take a lot of hands for villain to realize we're range x, specially when the textures I would do it don't come very often. Of course if IP x backs are too strong, then range x for OOP becomes a legit response vs that and will overrealize if villain ends up the mistake of not realizing we're range x and overstabs vs that btw.



I didn't think about the possibility of mixing it otf+ ott because in my mind, mixing overcomplicates strats too much and are an easy way for the worse reg to open himself more and get exploited by a higher amount. When developing my strats vs top regs (yeah, I have a special strat i use only vs good regs, didn't use it much though) I always take into account that villain is smarter than me and that my reads will often be wrong, so I try to play a strat that is as defensive as possible just to lose as little as possible vs better regs and make money vs whales. By defensive I don't mean passive btw.

It's funny that people in here think I'm not humble when that's the way I would play vs limitless. I've put a lot of work into those strats and I'm sort of an specialist in those types of play.

Btw, gonna still run some sims and analyze this spot in pio later.

An enjoyable read Rapi mate, I skimmed since the last update so may have missed, how's the grind been going?

I love you

you seem obsessed with range checking, its pretty much always bad except on very specific boards vs BB in 6max and when someone cold calls and you’re oop, apart from that range checking is just throwing away a lot of ev

doing fine, playing really well! gotta watch your stream sometimes, miss the crazy plays you do and obv the trash talking vs munny22, can't forget one hand you x/r K26ss with like K3hh, guy 3-bet the flop and you just jammed and cursed him, saying he was a whale, he tanked, probably cursed you and folded. 100z at it's finest haha

I am haha, maybe I'm biased because people stab so much in the games I play, so it ends up just being a strong exploit vs the pool.

gonna put more study into mixing, maybe one day I will start using RNG, maybe after 1M hands of 200 zone.

VAMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO