Thanks Kelvis, I was starting to think that lol. So you would advise also to fold to a 4bet with QQ?

Depends on positions of course. If I'm BB vs button I don't gaf what he has and just get it in but if it is MP vs UTG you might want to think about how often you're going to get it in ahead. Yes they might still have kings on the button but at least I know that if he only gets it in with KK+ I will completely run him over with the lesser part of my range. Can't really exploit the super nitty UTG ranges as much.

Makes sense; thanks again for your help Kelvis. Tried to be a bit more careful with regards to that this session.

Funny how poker works.. one day you're feeling awful after nothing goes right. The next day you win 21 BIs (which is what happened today). I don't know if I've ever had a day like this where I ran so well, and where everyone was willing to give me their stacks. At one point I had 15 BIs on one table (the first hand I posted is just to show that stack lol ). Tried to pick a few of the most entertaining/biggest hands.

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PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $0.39 (VPIP: 52.63, PFR: 2.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 38)
Hero (SB): $30.21
BB: $2.39 (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
UTG: $5.08 (VPIP: 13.51, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 38)
MP: $2.90 (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
CO: $2.11 (VPIP: 17.19, PFR: 14.06, 3Bet Preflop: 3.03, Hands: 67)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K K

fold, MP raises to $0.05, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.20, BB calls $0.18, MP calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.60, 3 players) 2 5 2
Hero bets $0.58, fold, fold,

------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $3.12 (VPIP: 28.00, PFR: 18.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 51)
SB: $6.87 (VPIP: 20.90, PFR: 16.72, 3Bet Preflop: 5.12, Hands: 716)
Hero (BB): $5.75
UTG: $2.00 (VPIP: 18.42, PFR: 13.16, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 38)
MP: $2.00 (VPIP: 19.02, PFR: 15.03, 3Bet Preflop: 8.11, Hands: 334)
CO: $2.70 (VPIP: 25.51, PFR: 18.37, 3Bet Preflop: 8.11, Hands: 101)

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.05, fold, Hero raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.41, 2 players) 2 5 2
Hero bets $0.40, BTN calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.21, 2 players) 9
Hero bets $5.15 and is all-in, BTN calls $2.52 and is all-in

River: ($6.25, 2 players) 4

Villain had 88

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PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.65 (VPIP: 40.63, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 26.67, Hands: 33)
SB: $0.99 (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
BB: $7.33 (VPIP: 22.64, PFR: 20.89, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 164)
Hero (UTG): $14.76
MP: $2.29 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
CO: $2.12 (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A Q

Hero raises to $0.05, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to $0.16, Hero calls $0.11

Flop: ($0.33, 2 players) A J 3
BB bets $0.11, Hero calls $0.11

Turn: ($0.55, 2 players) 2
BB bets $0.73, Hero calls $0.73

River: ($2.01, 2 players) 2
BB bets $2.68, Hero calls $2.68

Villain had KQ

---------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.15 (VPIP: 21.15, PFR: 12.18, 3Bet Preflop: 1.52, Hands: 162)
SB: $2.80 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 13.29, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 296)
BB: $2.14 (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
UTG: $1.61 (VPIP: 11.54, PFR: 3.85, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
Hero (MP): $12.91
CO: $5.68 (VPIP: 5.56, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 38)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K K

fold, Hero raises to $0.06, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.13, 2 players) Q 3 3
BB checks, Hero bets $0.13, BB calls $0.13

Turn: ($0.39, 2 players) 6
BB bets $0.18, Hero raises to $0.60, BB calls $0.42

River: ($1.59, 2 players) 6
BB bets $0.76, Hero raises to $7.24, BB calls $0.59 and is all-in

Villain had 99

-------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.48 (VPIP: 20.41, PFR: 11.22, 3Bet Preflop: 2.56, Hands: 101)
Hero (SB): $9.26
BB: $1.01
UTG: $2.32 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 7.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)
MP: $4.26 (VPIP: 10.47, PFR: 6.98, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 86)
CO: $2.00 (VPIP: 17.97, PFR: 9.38, 3Bet Preflop: 6.12, Hands: 130)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 8 8

UTG raises to $0.06, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.18, BB calls $0.16, UTG calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.54, 3 players) 9 T 6
Hero bets $0.17, BB calls $0.17, UTG calls $0.17

Turn: ($1.05, 3 players) 7
Hero bets $1.01, BB calls $0.66 and is all-in, UTG calls $1.01

River: ($3.73, 3 players) 4
Hero bets $3.60, UTG calls $0.96 and is all-in

UTG had QQ

BB had K7

------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $6.12 (VPIP: 31.33, PFR: 25.30, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 84)
SB: $2.51 (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
Hero (BB): $2.51
UTG: $1.02 (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP: $5.28 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
CO: $0.78 (VPIP: 12.73, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 7 A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.06, fold, Hero calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.13, 2 players) 6 5 2
Hero bets $0.13, BTN calls $0.13

Turn: ($0.39, 2 players) Q
Hero bets $0.38, BTN calls $0.38

River: ($1.15, 2 players) Q
Hero bets $1.94 and is all-in, BTN calls $1.94

Villain had A2

H1 maybe a bit smaller flop bet, could keep some Ax's and pp's in perhaps..?

Yeah can't bet pot on a paired two tone low flop. You're giving him an easy fold with hands like AJs/KQs etc that have a very difficult spot when you bet 1/3 to 1/2 pot.

I think I tend to disagree on this point (see hand 2 above). Betting pot will get most value from pocket pairs, maybe even AK, as most villains aren't gonna fold. Especially better to get them to put most of their money in before high cards come out and scare them. Much easier to stack them, and will probably get more money than getting them to put in a lot less money with a wider range. Plus, there's always the chance they'll spew and bluff-raise with those other hands. Just my thoughts; maybe I'm mistaken.

If they are folding too much, then wouldn't the answer just be to bluff more instead of betting smaller?

Can someone please tell me what happened??

------------------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $10.34
SB: $6.07 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 4)
BB: $2.07 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
UTG: $2.92 (VPIP: 22.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 51)
MP: $3.03 (VPIP: 26.79, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 57)
CO: $6.70 (VPIP: 17.92, PFR: 13.21, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 107)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.06, SB raises to $0.16, fold, Hero raises to $0.45, SB raises to $0.74, Hero raises to $1.99, SB calls $1.25

Flop: ($4.00, 2 players) J 9 5
SB bets $3.30, Hero raises to $6.60, SB calls $0.78 and is all-in

Turn: ($12.16, 2 players) 2

River: ($12.16, 2 players) 7

Villain had J9

And also what is this? Poker is confirmed dead. Hard to lose 5 BIs from those last two hands though

-------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.75 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 37)
SB: $9.15 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 6)
BB: $2.87 (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 22)
UTG: $2.09 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)
Hero (MP): $4.19
CO: $2.16 (VPIP: 22.38, PFR: 19.52, 3Bet Preflop: 14.49, Hands: 218)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q Q

UTG raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.18, fold, fold, SB calls $0.17, BB calls $0.16, UTG calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.72, 4 players) 9 9 6
SB bets $1.74, fold, fold, Hero raises to $4.01 and is all-in, SB calls $2.27

Turn: ($8.74, 2 players) T

River: ($8.74, 2 players) A

Villain had A7

You caught a ******. Good job.

Graph of NL2z from the start of challenge:



You guys are right, I shouldn't be grinding and cashing out at NL2. If I keep withdrawing what I need for expenses each month, the bankroll will grow very slowly. I don't know if I have it in me to go through that, especially while working full time. With fairly good results over a half-decent sample size at NL2, I at least now have more confidence to take shots at NL10.

NL10 is the limit I should try to reach ASAP in order to comfortably withdraw enough for monthly expenses while still being able to build the BR. Then I can continue along the plan I set for myself. So after work tonight, I will take a 5BI shot at NL10. BR is at $150 right now, so that still leaves 50BIs at NL2 if the shot fails. If the shot fails, will keep grinding more shots at NL2. May take smaller (more frequent) shots after the first one if it fails.

I don´t know if you have written this before, but why are you planning to jump directly to NL10? There is a considerably skill jump between both limits, due to the differences in the reg-fish ratios. I hope you succeed, since, if I understood correctly, you really need the money, but my advice is do not skip NL5. NL5 is tougher than NL2, but it´s very beatable if your long term winrate is 7bb/100 and you don´t tilt.

Thanks FazendeiroBH, for both the well-wishes and the advice. I guess the reality set in, and I just really want to get established at NL10 as quickly as possible. I do need to start making money soon; not a lot, but around $350 CAD a month. I have a little bit of time now though where I can try to shot-take more aggressively before I need to settle down at some level to spend most of my time grinding to cash out. I definitely know I can cover most of my costs at NL2, but I'd be spending just about every hour outside of work grinding NL2 just to make ends meet. And the process of moving up would be extremely slow.

I guess I thought there wouldn't be that much difference between NL5 and NL10. I always hear how just playing a solid "ABC" style game is enough to get out of the micros. I've read how NL5z (on Stars) is really nitty, and was under the impression that NL10 is softer. Maybe there are more fish there cause they prefer playing for $10 rather than $5. So I thought that skipping NL5 wouldn't be that bad, and would be quicker in getting to NL10.

Is your experience on Pokerstars? If there indeed is that much of a difference between NL5z and NL10z, then maybe I'm better off spending a bit of time at NL5 first. I guess tonight, I'll play some NL5z and start there. Maybe a better idea to try and make it at NL5 first.

Basically, I want to know what direction I'm heading by the end of the month. If I feel things are going really well at NL5, then I can spend October just getting experience at NL5, building my BR and maybe start taking shots at NL10. I can afford to wait until last half of October to start cashing out if I need to rely on NL2. If NL5/10 seems like it will work out, then I can afford to wait even longer, since I will be able to make more money when I do start cashing out. If my experience in the next couple weeks isn't great, then come October, I might just have to go back to the NL2 grind to make money to cash out, and go more slowly.

Any and all advice is appreciated

Hey PokerPhilosopher! Yes, my experience is on pokerstars.com. I play on the normal tables, so I´m assuming zoom should be a little tougher actually. NL5 is nittier, and way more passive than NL10. Beating passive games is easier, and with way less variance involved. I think you are a little underrolled, especially if you plan to cashout regularly, so experiencing less swings would be a goal if I was on your shoes. Good luck!

I play nl5 zoom myself i suggest you to not go broke at nl10zoom dont skip NL 5z you already will gain some experience playing against decent regs and they will give you cheaper learning experience how to play thougher field, dont jump nl 2z straight to nl 10z you will go broke its much thougher level than you think

If you want to get there faster just use an aggressive bankroll management but move down when necessary. Move up at 15 buy ins and get down at 10 sounds risky but is quite safe. If you have $150 you can lose 5 buy ins at 10NL, then have another 10 at 5NL and then the remaining bankroll is 25 buy ins at 2NL for a total of 40. Of course if you don't beat 10NL the first $50 are straight up dead money so whether you'd want to immediately go to 10NL is debatable. You don't need to grind your way up through 5NL but playing 25k hands there just to figure out if you beat it would not be a bad idea.

Thanks for the advice guys, appreciated. Won't be playing NL10 for a while then, and just shot-taking at NL5 then for now.

NL5 shot didn't go well. Lost 7BIs; I think it was something like 3 BIs lost to spew, and 4 BIs from running bad. Went back to NL2 after that, and lost a few more BIs. I think that was mostly just running bad if I remember correctly, although there's a possibility that there might have been some spew there as well. At any rate, just took a couple days off to regroup. BR is still over $100, so still in good shape. Although I don't know what the plan will be going forward. Might take one last crack at NL5 before settling back on NL2 for awhile (if it doesn't work).

Either I was running very badly at NL5, or my strategy does not work there nearly as well as it seems to be doing at NL2. I don't know which yet, but I do know a big part of my strategy was milking the fish for a lot of stacks lol. I don't recall seeing nearly as many of those fishy villains at NL5. May just be because of a small sample size, but I may need to work on my game a bit more for hands vs the regs. Is NL5z really a lot different than NL2z?

How many hands do you have now at nl2 zoom? It must be hundreds and hundreds of thousands.

You're making this infinitely more complicated than it needs to be with new PGC threads every few weeks with long complex plans and strategies. You want to be a semi-professional poker player but it seems that after 6 years you're still scared of moving up past nl2 zoom despite crushing it for hundreds of thousands of hands.

Just get $150-250 in your bankroll, don't withdraw, don't skip stakes and grind nl5 zoom until you're beating it over a decent sample, then move up to nl10 zoom and repeat.

Less fish at nl5, regs are better, so yes, game is different. Two tips for you: play nl5 in the weekends for a while (or friday night if you can), and nl2 during the normal weekdays. Do the same when you´re moving up to NL10. As hard as it can be to implement this, DO NOT EVER TILT, and I´m not saying just monkey spew. Be aware of your own game at all times, and if you see yourself clicking buttons without thinking, or paying attention to stats, gameflow etc, just quit.

What is the intention of that strategy? and why it is better than go up When have you beaten the previous level and have a bank for the next?

I do not find any sense in playing a few hands at a level 2x $ + than the current one supporting bigger swings than we would like simply by not wanting to put volume at the current level, I do not directly make sense to play a few hands weekends xD how many weeks are we supposed to do this?

Just a few weeks, until you are confident on your own game. As far as I know, weekends are softer than weekdays. Since you can´t tableselect zoom, it makes sense imo to try to play at the softest times possible for a while. Variance will still be in play, but I believe it is better to start playing a new limit at the softest times, in order to put the odds in your favor, until you built a sample on most regs and understood how they play, leaks etc. I did that myself by bumhunting a little bit (I play FR normal tables).

If op was a crusher, and confident enough in his game, I wouldn´t even say to him to try NL5, but just move to NL10 as was his plan. But it doesn´t seem he is, and worst, he needs to withdraw money as soon as possible. I would even advise him to play normal tables for a while (limiting them to 4), but I don´t think he will do that.

No, I'm not a crusher, and I'm not confident in my game right now. Except at nl2. Thanks for replying guys; I just took a bit of time off. Things were not going well. Lost a bit more at nl5, then just got frustrated with the game and lost more at nl2. Was (and still might be a little) almost at the point of just quitting poker for the near future. After all this time playing the game, and I still can't even find success at nl5. Was feeling like just giving up, and maybe playing here and there just for fun.

Thinking a little more clearly now, I had to make a fundamental change to my strategy. I was playing too loose, and way too exploitively. Exploiting mistakes of the nl2 pool. Not a good approach to use while moving up, as it probably won't work at nl5+. I tightened up preflop, and am using more balance postflop. Strengthening all my postflop ranges, and not being too unbalanced. Still trying to be somewhat exploitive in spots, but striking more of a balance. I'm playing more nitty (something like 14/11 at the moment), but I'm ok with that for the micros. As I move up, I'll start trying to loosen up more.

I've given up the plan of withdrawing from my BR for now. I'll just play and see how it goes. Will find a second job if it comes to it. So I'll try using a more aggressive BRM to move up for the first few stakes. If by some slim chance I end up having success at NL10, then maybe I won't have to worry about the second job. But I'm not holding my breath, or putting any pressure on myself.

I might split my time doing some game development as well. It's another possible source of income, but obviously that will take much, much longer before I can even start to see some returns.

EDIT: Regular tables might be an idea if I continue to stumble at zoom. But I much prefer the zoom format, so would like to make it work there if I can. I did drop to 2 tables of zoom though now.

Actually interests me how you struggle so bad lol...part of me wants to help which is rare then again who knows, how old are you exactly?

I'm a kid at heart lol, but late 30s. Maybe part of my struggles has been some wrong fundamentals I may have learnt years ago. Maybe I read (or watched) something that caused me to learn something harmful to my game that I had believed was part of the fundamentals. I don't know. I really don't know why I've been struggling so much. I know poker has gotten a lot tougher, but you'd think I'd be higher than this by now lol.

I used to beat a little higher stakes, albeit at full ring, years ago. I think I had beaten nl25 over a 250k sample (or something like that), and had an 80k hand breakeven sample at nl50 before things started going downhill there. Again, that was full ring.

I just finished playing a bit of nl5 again during the past hour. This is the first time in a while that I actually felt comfortable there. My BR is currently around $75, so I will continue playing nl5 for now, as long as I continue feeling comfortable. If I start feeling unconfident, or the BR reaches $50, then I'll go back down to nl2 and rebuild for another shot.

yes, that seems to be the case. Don't take it the wrong way, but you seem to be making the opposite of correct decision in almost all non-trivial spots, especially when it comes to betsizings. Forget everything you know, pay 25$ for RIO essential sub and go from there.