The point is because I need some supplemental income to pay the bills, as right now my job isn't paying enough. I can't afford to wait until I move up several stakes. This will be a more disciplined approach, and withdrawing bi-weekly will also help keep poker more exciting and keep me more motivated to put in the hours. The latter is especially important, as I've struggled with putting in the hours after work. If withdrawing money can push me to hit that 40 hours target, then it'll be worth it for me.

I appreciate the concern/thoughts, and I understand the reasoning behind it. I know that ideally it would be better to invest all my winnings into my BR and the chance to move up quicker. But this approach will also be better for my confidence in moving up. If it takes too much time, then maybe I'll have to figure out a way to speed it up. But I still think I can get around 150k hands a month in this way. So even if I take money out, it still shouldn't be horribly slow.

I've been more aggressive trying to move up in the past, and look what I have to show for it. Being stuck at these stakes for ages lol. Time to try slow and steady

Even if you're guaranteed to have a 5bb/100 winrate and you play about a 1000 hands per hour, which is quite a lot, that'll make you $150/month at 2NL. Is that really enough to make the difference? Even if you do need money right away the quickest way of getting there is to move up ASAP. A 50/50 play/study balance will get you to 5NL way faster and the higher stakes compensate for less hands. It seems much more feasible both short and long term to invest in moving up.

From what I can see you don't have a proven track record of beating cash games over large volume so playing 2NL 40 hours a week isn't even a guarantee that you make money, you might be losing it. Are there no alternatives to make up for your deficit in the meanwhile that pays more than $1/hour?

I'm estimating a 10bb/100 winrate at NL2. So far, my all-in adjusted winrate after 11k hands (forgetting that early GTO experiment) is around 16bb/100. I've beaten NL2 reg tables at 10-13 bb/100 in the past (probably a year or two ago) over a 150k hand sample. I have no idea if I can maintain 10bb/100 now, but I don't see why not if I stay disciplined. That would be $2/hour, and $300/month. I need roughly $350 extra/month. That will keep me going for now.

Normally I would have agreed with you about just moving up quicker. But the thing is there's more uncertainty there. Mentally, if I have something going now where I'm cashing out, that will give me more peace of mind. That's huge for me. That gives me more reassurance about the future, and I know I'm working to something real. I think that's the main reason. If I wait, I'll have even less of an idea how things will work out. That will give me less time to try to find more work before it's too late. And will just provide more stress in general. Which will lead to worse results, and probably less playing.

If I find my NL2 winrate drop too much, then yeah, I may have to re-evaluate how things are going and try to move up quicker (at least to NL5). But for now, mentally, I think I need to try this way.

EDIT: The thing is, if I move up to NL5, and can win sufficiently there right away, then that would be great. I could afford to wait and not cash out at NL2. But if I have some kind of mental block there, and need to spend time studying and getting confidence there, then it might not work out so well. I don't have any confidence in being a long term winner at NL5. I'd need to play a big sample at NL5 to get that confidence. And that's assuming I'd be such a winner right off the bat. I'm not sure I have the time to wait for that, and that's what would cause more stress. The uncertainty.

To answer the last question, I could just find a second job right now, but I'd prefer not working more than 5 days if I can help it. I didn't realize how tiring it was until I stopped doing it. Poker is a lot less physically tiring lol

I second this. I like your bankroll management and seems to be a very mature and structured way of taking shots. However removing money at these stakes is pretty much pointless unless you really need the money irl. If that's the case you probably shouldn't spend that much time playing poker.

It will just slow down your progress and reduce the amount of money you can make longterm at higher stakes.

I appreciate the concerns. Kelvis, I know you're a stand-up guy who knows what he's talking about, who likes to help people out. CC96, I don't know much about you lol, but you seem like a good guy as well. I know what you guys are saying, and I understand the tradeoff.

I don't need the money right away. I'll need it soon, but not immediately. What I do need right away is peace of mind, knowing I'll still be able to continue even if things don't work out right away with my shots at NL5 and beyond. If I have any doubts about how things are going, I should just be looking for a second job as soon as possible. I'll still be happy grinding NL2 longer while knowing eventually I will move up. And keep in mind, I live in Canada, so my winnings are actually greater. If I'm making $300 /month on Stars, that's actually about $384/month in Canadian dollars (with the current exchange rate). And if my winrate can stay closer to 15bb/100, I could start saving up a little liferoll, even while playing NL2.

Even if it takes me 3 months to move up one level, that still means I'd be playing NL50 after one year. Considering I'm still playing NL2 after many years of this game, I'll take that.

Not to be a dick but your "plan" is not going to work withdrawing at these stakes all the time.

Taking your time is fine. Best to move up when you are psychologically ready. However it does tend to take longer to move up at each stake as your winrate will be reduced as you move up stakes and can also take you a while to adapt. In the case of the step from 10NL to 25NL you will have to win more bb's at 10NL than you would normally as the stake increases 2.5x instead of the normal 2x.

2nl -5nl PCG?
Coding your own solver when you could just buy one for $80?
Obsessed with GTO to beat micro?
Using 2nl as an income supplement?

That's some quality stupid, and we only on pg3.

In.

Plan is to update graphs/results every two weeks (every "payday"). But I'll probably post hands more regularly, because there'll be so many hands if I wait until updating lol.

Hands, part 2:

Been thinking about if there's any way to speed up my process through the micros while still using that same approach with cashing out every two weeks, and I think I found it. I'm thinking of skipping NL5. Instead of saving up for a 10BI shot at NL5, I'll do so for a 10BI shot at NL10. Why not? And then, depending on how that goes, maybe skipping NL25 and going directly to NL50. I don't know how feasible that skip would be, as it might be too big of a leap. But definitely, I think going directly from NL2 to NL10 should be ok. Waiting to hear mirage trash that idea lol.

More hands:

I don't know if I'm posting too many hands lol. I'll only post a few this time. Maybe I'll try just narrowing it down to a few each day, unless you guys like looking at more.

KK bet 1/3 or half, pot size is bad you don't allow him to continue with floats and isolate/commit yourself vs 9x

Thank nuxxx, although I assume you mean Tx lol. The reason I bet big was because I was thinking their calling range would be pretty inelastic here. Paired board, they're likely to still call all pocket pairs that they'd call a 3bet with. Might be a bad assumption.

Hit a really bad stretch today, didn't mark any hands at that point cause was just too tilted. 9BI downswing (including some bad play in there). Took a break, came back and regrouped. Ended up only 5BI down; 3BI down with the all-in EV line. So didn't end up a terrible day. Instead of betting big all the time with my stronger value, I started mixing in some smaller bets/checks vs the regs. Mixed results so far with that. I pick off quite a few bluffs that way, but don't know if it makes up for the missed value.

Why are you cbetting 15% with tptk in a 3bet pot? lol

Guy is still learning. He's obviously posting his hands to learn more and where he has made mistakes. Is there really any point in bashing the OP of every thread on here especially when you haven't got your own thread to show how perfect of a player you are.

Thanks CC96. I'm used to seeing him bash everyone, so I just try to look at the advice and not how he presents it lol. As long as he's being helpful, I can look past his "lack of etiquette".

And yeah, I'm still learning (just like everyone should be). For that hand, I think the real question is whether I should bet or check. If the answer is bet, then I misplayed it. If the answer is check, then there's really not much difference between betting tiny and checking. The reason I chose a small bet size instead of checking is because I felt it would get villain to make more mistakes against me.

Against a fish, I would just bet big. But against a reg, I thought I could get more value from him betting than me. I mean, what hand could he have that would call more than one bet? Overpairs are unlikely, as he'd probably reraise with them preflop. I block top pair combos, and I block the most likely flush draws.

That's just my analysis of the hand. Am I wrong in any of that thinking?

overthinking. regs make mistakes all the time, and you punish that by betting, not checking. he has a whole bunch of hands to call you down, just look at what he had there. You are still not understanding the fundamental rule of micro of just betting for value when you have it. you won't get out of micro if you cant get value, none of this xc bs.

Fair enough, although what sizing would you use there?

And it should be obvious by most of my hands so far (I hope), that most of the time I am betting. Maybe betting too often. My winrate to this point is still half-decent, although always looking to improve it.

Now, I do not know the minimum wage etc in Canada, but if you want to play poker, why don´t you just work for a few days or a week doing some menial job, like carrying materials at a construction site, doing some sort of cleaning or delivery work or whatever? Then you´d at least have enough to play NL10 and take shots at NL25. And at least a fighting chance at a somewhat decent hourly.

What's the point of adding any more funds when he can't beat 2nl, he would be better off just putting his net worth on red.

I'd have to find a second job first, not an easy task over here, especially when I'm already working one job. But yeah, having enough to play NL10 wouldn't help me if I can't beat it.

And for the record, I can beat (and am beating) NL2. NL5 is iffy; haven't really put much time at this level recently to know whether or not I can beat it. NL10, I haven't beaten over a significant sample recently. Actually, this is the most volume I've put at NL2 in a long time also. It feels good to get back to grinding lots again, and we'll see how things continue to go this time.

Worked my way out a 6-7 BI downswing during my last session of the day to finish 1 BI up (although EV line was 3-4 BI up). I'll take it.

Argh, 6 BIs down today. Just setup after setup; so frustrating. Hand history converter doesn't seem to be working, so will use this format.

----------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.01 (VPIP: 19.08, PFR: 17.76, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 158)
SB: $8.37 (VPIP: 28.95, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 39)
Hero (BB): $3.06
UTG: $3.16 (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 80)
MP: $2.10 (VPIP: 19.59, PFR: 15.20, 3Bet Preflop: 9.00, Hands: 303)
CO: $1.69 (VPIP: 15.89, PFR: 12.15, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 108)

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 7 6

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.06, Hero calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.12, 2 players) 7 K 6
SB bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.24, SB calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.60, 2 players) 2
SB checks, Hero bets $1.00, SB calls $1.00

River: ($2.60, 2 players) 5
SB checks, Hero bets $1.76 and is all-in, SB calls $1.76

Villain had KK


----------------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.09 (VPIP: 17.78, PFR: 15.56, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 47)
SB: $2.30 (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 19.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
BB: $1.00 (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
UTG: $2.35 (VPIP: 24.31, PFR: 21.10, 3Bet Preflop: 16.87, Hands: 225)
Hero (MP): $2.10
CO: $4.58 (VPIP: 24.01, PFR: 19.09, 3Bet Preflop: 3.17, Hands: 548)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 6 6

UTG raises to $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.15, 2 players) 6 9 2
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.14, UTG calls $0.14

Turn: ($0.43, 2 players) 2
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.41, UTG calls $0.41

River: ($1.25, 2 players) Q
UTG bets $0.18, Hero raises to $1.49 and is all-in, UTG calls $1.31

Villain had 99

-----------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.04 (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
SB: $2.45 (VPIP: 20.83, PFR: 18.33, 3Bet Preflop: 2.56, Hands: 248)
BB: $3.92 (VPIP: 24.35, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 121)
Hero (UTG): $2.02
MP: $2.03 (VPIP: 38.78, PFR: 29.17, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 50)
CO: $2.88 (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to $0.06, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to $0.19, Hero raises to $0.60, BB raises to $3.92 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.42 and is all-in

Flop: ($4.05, 2 players) 3 7 J

Turn: ($4.05, 2 players) 8

River: ($4.05, 2 players) A

Villain had KK

-------------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $1.64 (VPIP: 13.89, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
Hero (SB): $2.77
BB: $2.00
UTG: $1.91 (VPIP: 13.79, PFR: 12.64, 3Bet Preflop: 6.06, Hands: 89)
MP: $1.41 (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 8)
CO: $2.33 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 24.56, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 57)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q Q

fold, MP raises to $0.05, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.20, BB raises to $0.50, fold, Hero raises to $2.77 and is all-in, BB calls $1.50 and is all-in

Flop: ($4.05, 2 players) 4 7 6

Turn: ($4.05, 2 players) 5

River: ($4.05, 2 players) 6

Villain had AA

----------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $6.76
SB: $1.07 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
BB: $2.00 (VPIP: 7.41, PFR: 3.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 28)
UTG: $2.10 (VPIP: 36.59, PFR: 33.54, 3Bet Preflop: 14.81, Hands: 171)
MP: $2.00 (VPIP: 19.73, PFR: 18.37, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 153)
CO: $3.80 (VPIP: 25.82, PFR: 19.49, 3Bet Preflop: 9.80, Hands: 405)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 8 A

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.05, fold, BB calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11, 2 players) 9 T 8
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.11, 2 players) A
BB bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.32, BB calls $0.24

River: ($0.75, 2 players) A
BB checks, Hero bets $6.39 and is all-in, BB calls $1.63 and is all-in

Villain had A9o

-----------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.19 (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
SB: $5.45 (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
BB: $2.19 (VPIP: 28.95, PFR: 19.74, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 79)
Hero (UTG): $5.74
MP: $2.31 (VPIP: 8.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 12)
CO: $1.40 (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 9 A

Hero raises to $0.05, fold, CO calls $0.05, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.13, 2 players) 9 A Q
Hero bets $0.13, CO calls $0.13

Turn: ($0.39, 2 players) 5
Hero bets $0.19, CO calls $0.19

River: ($0.77, 2 players) 5
Hero bets $5.37 and is all-in, CO calls $1.03 and is all-in

Villain had 99

-------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.63 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
SB: $1.01 (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 6.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BB: $2.00 (VPIP: 18.57, PFR: 12.86, 3Bet Preflop: 15.63, Hands: 72)
UTG: $3.64 (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 23.53, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
Hero (MP): $4.06
CO: $2.10 (VPIP: 10.26, PFR: 10.26, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 41)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 7 7

fold, Hero raises to $0.05, fold, fold, SB calls $0.04, fold

Flop: ($0.12, 2 players) K 7 9
SB checks, Hero bets $0.12, SB raises to $0.24, Hero raises to $4.01 and is all-in, SB calls $0.72 and is all-in

Turn: ($2.04, 2 players) J

River: ($2.04, 2 players) Q

Villain had 99

----------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.32 (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 99)
SB: $0.92 (VPIP: 73.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
BB: $3.81 (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 15)
UTG: $4.24 (VPIP: 32.35, PFR: 25.29, 3Bet Preflop: 22.14, Hands: 350)
Hero (MP): $2.00
CO: $3.47 (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 7 9

UTG raises to $0.05, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, fold, SB calls $0.14, fold, UTG calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.47, 3 players) A 8 5
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.15, SB calls $0.15, UTG calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.92, 3 players) 3
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.92, 3 players) 6
SB bets $0.62 and is all-in, UTG calls $0.62, Hero calls $0.62

Villain had A9

Don't call 5bets with less than KK below 10NL until proven wrong. When they 4bet/5bet they have it.