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Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

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Old 07-10-2018, 01:12 PM   #1
Strappz
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PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

I've decided to make a thread/blog to track my happenings in what appears to be a switch to PLO 6max cash games. My family and I recently sold our quaint starter home in the ghetto and now that we're settled in to what feels like a mansion I'm beginning to spend more time playing poker. This has been the plan for a while now. I used to play buttloads of NLHE, took numerous years off, and now I'm back donating my lot to the masses. Initially I was going to be grinding out MTT's but my work schedule makes it really hard to dedicate 8-10 hours at a time and still be a moderately decent family man. However I have grinded out the current online bankroll over the last few months playing micro MTT's. When it comes to cash games I'm finding PLO is much more intriguing than NLHE so that's what we're doing.

The journey begins at $0.10/$0.25 PLO on ACR. I live in the US so options are, well, pretty booty cheeks. My current online bankroll is right at $800 (started with a $100 deposit) but I have money offline for reloads if necessary (live bankroll). If needed I'll reload versus moving down simply because I don't want to pay the rake at lower limits and I like having a little more money floating around the table when I play. Regardless I've logged a number of sessions and I feel pretty comfy. Losing multiple buy-ins really doesn't phase me.

I work 12 hour shifts from 7 PM to 7 AM so I'll be playing afternoon sessions when I'm working and probably peak hours the days I'm off. Working 12's I have half the week off so barring a lot of overtime I should have a decent chunk of time to log hands. For the time being I'm going to stick to two tables at a time so I can focus on the action and pick up as much as possible. I've also been tagging hands in PT4 for review which I check at the end or beginning of each session. Numerous hours have been logged away from the tables on study which I will continue to do. Once I gain more experience I'll probably set some small goals to start. Everything is so new in this arena so I really don't know what I can realistically hit in terms of hands per week/month/session. I'm not setting any immediate bankroll goals other than not to bust. I expect things to be a bit bumpy so I'm more focused on learning the game than logging big wins.

Ok enough of that, here's the first giraffe from the session I just wrapped up.




Don't let this fool you, yesterday's graph sucked. I was over $100 below ev. Pretty much a dumpster fire from the first hand.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:01 PM   #2
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

One nice thing about ACR is they do offer rakeback (and for new players combo deposit bonus + rakeback) unlike the two other main options, Chico network and Ignition.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:18 PM   #3
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
One nice thing about ACR is they do offer rakeback (and for new players combo deposit bonus + rakeback) unlike the two other main options, Chico network and Ignition.
I actually didn't know they offer rakeback. I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the heads up.


Here's one of those typical spots, to value bet or not. Question is do I get called by worse? Thinking over the hand after the session it seems like the hand combos that are most likely to bluff catch are going to be flushes. No possible straights are out there, I block AJ/A9/99. I gambled pre with a few regs behind me hoping for a squeeze but no such luck. This is obviously a standard raise pre. Not sure if there's any value in betting the river though.


Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): $52.89
CO: $46.44
BTN: $25.76
SB: $25.52
BB: $28.21
UTG: $23.49

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has A 9 A 5

UTG raises to $0.70, Hero calls $0.70, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($1.75, 2 players) 2 A 6
UTG bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.25, 2 players) J
UTG bets $3.25, Hero raises to $9.75, UTG calls $6.50

River: ($23.75, 2 players) 9
UTG checks, Hero ???
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:38 PM   #4
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

gl
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:50 PM   #5
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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gl
Thanks Broken. Been digging the streams. Gives me something to pass the time when I'm at work and we're slow.


Couple fun hands from the PM session.

Not a hand I would traditionally 3bet (maybe I should???) but the opener was tight and folded a lot to 3bets, the guy between was pretty fishy and I have the BTN. Gotta love those blockers on the turn.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $17.09
UTG: $17.27
MP: $27.51
CO: $31.62
Hero (BTN): $41.76
SB: $12.90

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has 9 Q Q 9

fold, MP raises to $0.85, CO calls $0.85, Hero raises to $3.75, fold, fold, MP calls $2.90, CO calls $2.90

Flop: ($11.60, 3 players) 3 J 7
MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $4.50, fold, CO calls $4.50

Turn: ($20.60, 2 players) T
CO checks, Hero bets $19.57, fold

Hero wins $19.57


This one felt so nice. So happy to hit the king instead of a diamond. This guy had been check/raising my cbets rather frequently. Bottom pair on the flop and he hit gin on the turn. Not good enough sir.


Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $13.64
Hero (UTG): $27.02
MP: $10.00
CO: $12.57
BTN: $17.34
SB: $32.35

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q 7 6 K

Hero raises to $0.85, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.85, fold, fold

Flop: ($2.05, 2 players) K 2 3
Hero bets $0.97, BTN raises to $3.50, Hero calls $2.53

Turn: ($9.05, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.25, Hero raises to $14.80, BTN calls $7.74 and is all-in

River: ($35.03, 2 players) K

Hero shows Q 7 6 K (Full House, Kings full of Sevens)
(Pre 55%, Flop 80%, Turn 25%)
BTN shows 7 3 J 7 (Full House, Sevens full of Kings)
(Pre 45%, Flop 20%, Turn 75%)
Hero wins $33.28


Overall I had a solid session. Ran above ev and made roughly 4.5 buyins. My red line was right at -$1.00 which seems pretty solid in these lower limit games where people don't fold. I feel like I stayed rather focused and picked my spots wisely.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:26 AM   #6
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Quote:
I actually didn't know they offer rakeback. I'll have to look into it.
Yah, they have two methods of rakeback, either a tiered system based on how much you play, or a flat 35% rakeback. All you have to do is ask support to get put on the 35%. You will want to be on the flat rakeback system.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:18 AM   #7
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
Yah, they have two methods of rakeback, either a tiered system based on how much you play, or a flat 35% rakeback. All you have to do is ask support to get put on the 35%. You will want to be on the flat rakeback system.
I found the link in the WPN sub forum. I sent off a request already. Probably should follow-up with the 35% request. Thanks PPG.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:41 AM   #8
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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I found the link in the WPN sub forum. I sent off a request already. Probably should follow-up with the 35% request. Thanks PPG.
I think I made a mistake and it is actually 27% rakeback. Here is a comparison article :


https://professionalrakeback.com/wpn...ack-versus-vip
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:26 AM   #9
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
I think I made a mistake and it is actually 27% rakeback. Here is a comparison article :


https://professionalrakeback.com/wpn...ack-versus-vip
I've been in contact with one of the agents that handles it and they said it's currently 27%. They they thought the 35% ended four or five years back. That's going to be awesome if I can get rakeback though.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:05 PM   #10
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappz View Post
I found the link in the WPN sub forum. I sent off a request already. Probably should follow-up with the 35% request. Thanks PPG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble View Post
I think I made a mistake and it is actually 27% rakeback. Here is a comparison article :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappz View Post
I've been in contact with one of the agents that handles it and they said it's currently 27%. They they thought the 35% ended four or five years back. That's going to be awesome if I can get rakeback though.
As the author of the aforementioned link, I figure I can offer up some information, advice, and background.

To clarify, way back in the day, when Black Chip Poker was on Merge Gaming Network, they offered 35% rakeback. When BCP moved over to Winning Poker Network (where America's Cardroom is housed) they were allowed to keep 35% rakeback for existing accounts.

However, WPN's max allowed rakeback is 27%. As such, all new accounts are 27% rakeback and the existing 35% accounts were grandfathered in for life. A similar situation happened with Doyle's Room accounts of which some legacy accounts have 30% rakeback.

Rakeback is probably the best choice for you given how late it is in the year. You'd have to grind really really hard to make VIP worth it in 2018. However, if your volume increases, VIP in 2019 might very well be worth it. Especially for high raking PLO cash game players.

Unfortunately, once you swap from VIP to Rakeback, you can not swap back. Also, vice-versa. Once swap per the lifetime of an account. The only recourse in this event is to create an account on another skin.

My advice to many players is simply to have one flat rakeback and one VIP account. Typically on ACR and BCP as they are both network owned and operated skins.

--
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:46 AM   #11
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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Originally Posted by kahntrutahn View Post
As the author of the aforementioned link, I figure I can offer up some information, advice, and background.

To clarify, way back in the day, when Black Chip Poker was on Merge Gaming Network, they offered 35% rakeback. When BCP moved over to Winning Poker Network (where America's Cardroom is housed) they were allowed to keep 35% rakeback for existing accounts.

However, WPN's max allowed rakeback is 27%. As such, all new accounts are 27% rakeback and the existing 35% accounts were grandfathered in for life. A similar situation happened with Doyle's Room accounts of which some legacy accounts have 30% rakeback.

Rakeback is probably the best choice for you given how late it is in the year. You'd have to grind really really hard to make VIP worth it in 2018. However, if your volume increases, VIP in 2019 might very well be worth it. Especially for high raking PLO cash game players.

Unfortunately, once you swap from VIP to Rakeback, you can not swap back. Also, vice-versa. Once swap per the lifetime of an account. The only recourse in this event is to create an account on another skin.

My advice to many players is simply to have one flat rakeback and one VIP account. Typically on ACR and BCP as they are both network owned and operated skins.

--
Kahn
I received a few responses after completing the form for rakeback. If available to me it sounds like I should have it setup, or at least a followup response on Monday. Going for the flat rakeback. Thanks for the info.


Interesting session tonight. Most of my PLO sessions have been in the early afternoon. What a difference between that time slot and later at night. It goes from sitting with 3 or 4 regs during the day to sitting with at least 4 recs at night. Obviously the evening sessions would be the most desirable but I'll have to take what my schedule will give me.

Ended up being down about a buy-in and a half which I'm kind of happy with because it was shaping up to be down roughly three. Couldn't hold top set against an OESD on the flop where the guy was blocking two of his only outs. Darn river

Also had two very similar spots I'll need to review where I was out of position with the second nut flush. Both times the board paired on the river and I faced about a half to two thirds PSB when I checked it over. Not sure if these are calls or I'm leveling myself that the villain could be bluffing. Both times I called and was shown the nut flush. Need to review the action leading up to the river to really break it down.

Other than a few key spots and one poorly time bluff I played alright. Happy to pick up a few big pots at the end to decrease the losses. Honestly if I could have eliminated about a 30 minute stretch mid session I would have done really well. I'm working some overtime tomorrow during the day but plan on getting in a long session at night. Checked the weather and it's supposed to be over 90 degrees so it's going to suck.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:06 AM   #12
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

GL!
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:40 PM   #13
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strappz View Post
I received a few responses after completing the form for rakeback. If available to me it sounds like I should have it setup, or at least a followup response on Monday. Going for the flat rakeback. Thanks for the info.
Be sure that you cash in all of your VIP points before they swap you. What you have remaining will be zero'd out and you will no longer be able to convert them into $$.

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Old 07-12-2018, 10:37 PM   #14
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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Originally Posted by cardporn View Post
GL!
Thanks. I see you've started a PLO PG&C thread too. Hope it's going well for ya.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kahntrutahn View Post
Be sure that you cash in all of your VIP points before they swap you. What you have remaining will be zero'd out and you will no longer be able to convert them into $$.

--
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I didn't even know you could cash in points. I poked around a wee bit and found where to trade them. Thanks again for the tips. I now have $10 more to donate tonight.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:45 PM   #15
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

I just get a spinning wheel of death whenever I try and cashout on ACR. Have you cashed out at all yet?
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:30 AM   #16
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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I just get a spinning wheel of death whenever I try and cashout on ACR. Have you cashed out at all yet?
No not yet. Oddly enough when I first down started using the software there were certain sections of the actual client that weren't functioning properly. Basically if I went to the cashier the page wouldn't fully display so I couldn't even see how to cash out. No way to scroll right or down to see everything. I spoke with online chat support and they had me change a setting in my control panel and it fixed things.

But when you say spinning wheel of death I take it you can request a withdrawal and it doesn't respond?
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:29 AM   #17
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Another session in the books, scratched out a small victory for the night. Played a little over 500 hands. The last two nights I've dabbled with adding a third table. One trend I've noticed is that I'm playing fewer hands in terms of VP$P/PFR when I have three going, or it's the table dynamic at night. Probably a combination of both. Considering when you're sitting with 4 recreational players per table I've adjusted by tightening my preflop ranges considering flops are generally going 3 or 4 way. When I'm playing regs during my midday sessions play is a little more rigid and the majority of flops go HU. In those conditions I'm opening more hands and bluffing a little more in spots where I've noticed player tendencies I can exploit.

One other improvement during week two is my redline is starting to flatten out. Last week when I decided to focus on PLO the money I was donating in non-showdown pots was an immediate issue that I had to review. The adjustment that's really paying dividends is playing most of my hands from the CO/BTN. Essentially playing fewer hands out of position and more hands in position makes things so much easier. I would say even more so than NLHE.

Here's my graph from the inception of this blog. Not a ton of hands but volume is not my main focus. I'm going to stick to 2 tables mostly while I'm learning the basics of the game and will add a third here and there if there's another good game running.


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Old 07-13-2018, 07:20 AM   #18
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Gl

See you on the battlefield
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Old 07-13-2018, 03:39 PM   #19
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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Gl

See you on the battlefield
Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:14 PM   #20
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Managed to squeeze in a small session between waking up and getting reading for work tonight. The heat is still blazing so tonight is going to suck. I worked overtime during the day yesterday and by the time I got home I felt sick. There's just no way to escape the heat for 12 hours in a manufacturing environment. Only a few more months until it cools down.

Anyhoo played about 90 minutes two tabling. This graph includes a few hands from the tail end of last night. Can't see a way to filter this graph for sessions. I can graph out sessions but it doesn't include all four lines which I like to show.





Got rather fortunate in this hand considering I had 7% on the flop. The call was player dependent. He actually had it this time but sometimes you get lucky.


Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: $34.39
BB: $30.81
Hero (UTG): $26.93
MP: $25.31
CO: $23.98
BTN: $25.00

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has A T 2 K

Hero raises to $0.85, MP calls $0.85, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: ($2.05, 2 players) 6 T 6
Hero checks, MP bets $1.46, Hero calls $1.46

Turn: ($4.97, 2 players) T
Hero checks, MP bets $3.54, Hero raises to $15.35, MP raises to $23.00 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.65

River: ($50.97, 2 players) K

Hero shows A T 2 K (Full House, Tens full of Kings)
(Pre 51%, Flop 7%, Turn 55%)
MP shows 6 5 8 7 (Three of a Kind, Sixes)
(Pre 49%, Flop 93%, Turn 45%)
Hero wins $48.43


Here was one of the last hands of the session. I think this was an okay call on the flop, probably doesn't make sense to raise. TP/TK with the NFD and a gutter to the nuts. Turn stack sizes were a bit odd. I was deep with one player but not the guy who bet $4 on the flop. I was darn near certain the CO had a set here or OESD w/clubs. He's one of the better regs and I don't see him firing multi-way on a bluff considering I have nut clubs on a low board. I know he's not getting out of line.


Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $25.00
Hero (BTN): $59.28
SB: $53.78
BB: $25.00
UTG: $26.10

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has A 8 J T

UTG raises to $0.85, CO calls $0.85, Hero calls $0.85, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($4.25, 5 players) 8 7 3
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets $4.00, Hero calls $4.00, SB calls $4.00, fold, fold

Turn: ($16.25, 3 players) Q
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $12.00, fold, fold

Hero wins $15.44


Always happy to hear feedback on any hands I post in here. I have less than 10k hands in PLO so I'm learning as I go.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:43 PM   #21
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Holy crap did I just find a major leak poking around my database. I ran a filter for WSD% when hero calls river bets. It's gross. A while back I was watching a video and the author semi-jokingly made a comment that you could probably increase your win rate significantly but not calling bets on the river. Perhaps people just aren't bluffing as frequently as you'd think...and if at lower levels they aren't value betting thin enough then you would need much stronger hands to call with because bets would be weighed more heavily towards VALUE.

I really REALLY need to keep this in mind going forward. I reviewed the HH's from the biggest pots I lost when calling river bets and to be quite honest I butchered at least two streets from every hand. I don't know if these were tilt calls or what but this is an area that if I can improve on my win rate will see quite the jump.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:30 PM   #22
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

What was it?
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:08 AM   #23
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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What was it?
WSD% when hero calls on the river. It's the percentage of time I win when my action is to call any river bet. So that could be a donk and I call, check/call or my bet get raised and call. Essentially I'm calling to many bets on the river.

When I reviewed some of the hands that were captured by the filter the mistakes were pretty obvious. I believe my audible reaction on some were, "Oh that's really bad."
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:36 AM   #24
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

Don't get fooled by %'s. Remember that for a profitable 1/2 PSB river call you only need to WSD% just 25+%. River call efficiency is the stat you want to be looking at.

GL! PLO is hell of a game - stay optimistic when on a downswing, and prepare for the worst when running good.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:22 AM   #25
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Re: PLO, Giraffes, And Probably Some Indigestion

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Originally Posted by IJustClick View Post
Don't get fooled by %'s. Remember that for a profitable 1/2 PSB river call you only need to WSD% just 25+%. River call efficiency is the stat you want to be looking at.

GL! PLO is hell of a game - stay optimistic when on a downswing, and prepare for the worst when running good.
Could you expand on river call efficiency? What should I be looking at? I mean I understand that how often you need to be correct increases or decreases based on the size of the bet in a given instance.

From the filter I ran on my river calls I won 12% for a total loss of like 3 or 4 buyins over about 5k hands. 5k was the total hands I had to sample from not the total that were river calls. I assume numbers can be skewed too because the majority of the called hands were for small amounts where post flop action was minimal. But I had about 6 hands within the sample where big river bets were placed and given the action post flop my calls were pretty bad given the price and how often I needed to be correct.
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