Hi,

I am taking the JNandez PLO Mastermind course. I've played SO MUCH poker in my life - but bar reading Super System and watching Cole South on Cardrunners while I ate oven pizza, I've never really studied the game in a detailed way. I want that to change.

To do that I've decided to radically change my hands studied to hands played ratio. Currently it's around one in every 10,000 hands. I am going to change that to studying every hand.

I'm going to play 10 hands of PLO, then not play another 10 hands until I know if I made any mistakes in the last 10.

Right now my bankroll is $462.32 and I'm going to start off playing PLO25 Zoom on Stars.

The tools I know how to use when I study will grow over time as I do more of the PLO Mastermind, but right now I am going to use the JNP Preflop Helper (a discord bot that gives pre flop recommendations) and the 2+2/PLO Mastermind Forums/Discord to deal with post flop play.

I'll see you after my first 10 hands!

Hand 1, Mistake 1

Hand: 4d5h4c6c

PokerStars Zoom, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $9.09 (36 bb)
MP: $27.86 (111 bb)
CO: $35.67 (143 bb)
BU: $19.85 (79 bb)
SB: $8.29 (33 bb)
BB (Hero): $25.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with 4♦ 5♥ 4♣ 6♣
3 players fold, BTN raises to $0.85, 1 fold, BB (Hero) folds

Total pot: $0.60 (Rake: $0)
BU wins $0.60

I played one hand and wanted to pause my session to get my HUD up (very important for TEN hands!)... so I folded the BB without thinking twice. Of course this was a fold I told myself.

This was wrong:

Raise First-In
100% (-0.22)

Call vs
EP 100% (-0.79)
MP 100% (-0.83)
CO 100% (-0.86)
BU 100% (-0.81)
SB 100% (-0.69)
EP+MP 100% (-0.27)
EP+CO 100% (-0.93)
EP+BU 100% (-1.01)
EP+SB 100% (-0.44)
MP+CO 100% (-0.74)
MP+BU 100% (-0.67)
MP+SB 99% (-0.51)
CO+BU 100% (-0.67)
CO+SB 97% (-0.56)
BU+SB 100% (-0.48)
EP+MP+BU 95% (1.9)
EP+MP+CO 38% (0.3)
MP+CO+BU 33% (-0.16)

So it is nearly always a call, and never a 3b. As I'm in the BB my EV from folding is -1bb, so if I can lose LESS than 1bb I should do that. And if I play GTO, I should be calling.

Let's break it down.

Vs any single open it's a call:

EP 100% (-0.79)
MP 100% (-0.83)
CO 100% (-0.86)
BU 100% (-0.81)
SB 100% (-0.69)

I lose the least money if the SB opens, which makes sense as I have position.

After that I lose less money when the player opens from EP, and that's probably because their range is tighter, so my low cards play well against it.

Then the button, probably because the range is widest, so I can play back more.

After that MP (tight range, mainly higher cards but not as tight as UTG), and then the CO - probably the range that most directly dominates mine and is not wide enough to allow me to playback so freely.

Vs an EP open and then a call:

EP+MP 100% (-0.27)
EP+CO 100% (-0.93)
EP+BU 100% (-1.01)
EP+SB 100% (-0.44)

Interestingly, we can see that the TIGHTER the range of my opponents, the better I do. I do best when the UTG and UTG+1 open.

Then position comes into play, vs the SB caller.

Then the CO who is the next tightest, and finally the button who has the loosest overcalling range - which probably includes more hands that dominate mine. It says I should call but I'm losing 1.01bb, vs 1 by just folding... so maybe it's a fold/neutral?

It's also interesting to not that I'm sometimes losing less and sometimes losing more when calling with other players in the pot (vs a single raiser). There is more variance for some reason.

Vs an MP open and a call

MP+CO 100% (-0.74)
MP+BU 100% (-0.67)
MP+SB 99% (-0.51)

Again, because MPs range is wider than the SBs (and I WANT a tight range to play against), there are some situations where I'm not doing as well as when EP raised.

Here position wins, with the SB spot coming out best.

Then the button calling, similar to the open raiser - I do better against a wider button range than a medium-wide CO range. Then finally when the CO calls.

Here I'm always losing less than when there is just a single raiser.

Summing things up so far...
- Calling 4d5h4c6c from the BB is good vs any open, best vs the SB, then a tight range, then a wide range, and worst vs a medium range
- Calling 4d5h4c6c from the BB vs multiple players is good, best against two players with very tight ranges, then when the caller is the SB (so I have more position), then against a tight range and a tightish-range (e.g. MP + CO, EP + CO), then against a tight range and a medium range (EP + BTN)

So If I'm picking up on the right things... what can I expect from

CO (worst) + BU (worst)
CO (worst) + SB (best)

So I think we are going to see CO + BU give a worse outcome than CO + SB... [I haven't looked at the calculations when writing this... even though I posted them earlier].

I feel like CO and BU will be around -0.9, and CO and SB around -0.7, mainly because the CO's range was the worst hand to play against in a one opponent pot.

Let's see:

Vs CO open and a call

CO+BU 100% (-0.67)
CO+SB 97% (-0.56)

Well I was right about the structure, but wrong about the amounts being so big. I'm not really sure why...

Vs BU open and a call

BU+SB 100% (-0.48)

Vs wide range and with position, still not as good as two tight players (EP + MP) but not bad.

In 4 way pot

EP+MP+BU 95% (1.9)
EP+MP+CO 38% (0.3)
MP+CO+BU 33% (-0.16)

I should be folding a sometimes here it seems... especially after the CO calls. I guess because they have that middle range which seems to mess my hand up.
Which is confusing as it looks like they are the only spots where I am profitable! I have asked the PLO Mastermind chat.

OK... one hand done... a lot of work... but I did learn something.

Hand 2, 0 Mistake

PokerStars Zoom, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $25.35 (101 bb)
MP: $56.10 (224 bb)
CO: $71.41 (286 bb)
BU: $32.88 (132 bb)
SB (Hero): $25.10 (100 bb)
BB: $25.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with 8♠ T♦ T♣ 3♦
UTG raises to $0.85, 3 players fold, SB (Hero) folds, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.60 (Rake: $0)
UTG wins $0.60

TdTc8s3d [single suited medium pair, not too well connected] is a fold vs an EP open.

Limp
27% (-0.49)

Limp-fold
27% (-1)

Interestingly I should be limping with it about 25% of the time if it folds to me in the SB.

What happens if I change "single suited medium pair, not too well connected" to "double suited medium pair, not too well connected"?

Raise First-In
53% (-0.35)

Limp
47% (-0.32)

Limp-call
47% (-0.76)

Call 3bet vs
BB 53% (-2.89)

So I still should fold it vs an EP / ANY open... I should now be raising with it 1/2 the time and limping the other half.

If I get 3b from the BB I can call 1/2 the time.

So... now we can compare a SB spot with a BB spot...

If I had this hand in the BB, would I be playing it more? My bet is yes because my expectation of folding the BB is -1, so it's easier for me to get >-1 than it is for me to get >-0.5 (SB ev at fold).

Well... I was wrong about that!!

For 8sTdTc3d (single suited, mid pair disconnected) - we only raise 1% of the time IF flatted to us in the BB, and we call 100% vs SB where we have position.

Raise First-In
1% (-0.11)

Call vs
SB 100% (-0.65)

And for double suited mid pair unconnected 8sTdTs3d...

Interestingly this changes a lot:

Raise First-In
99% (0.08)

Call vs
MP 91% (-0.98)
CO 100% (-0.92)
BU 100% (-0.67)
SB 100% (-0.38)
MP+SB 59% (-0.8)
CO+BU 38% (-0.95)
CO+SB 29% (-1.01)
BU+SB 97% (-0.86)
EP+MP+BU 23% (-0.22)
MP+CO+BU 8% (-0.53)

We are now playing this hand vs everyone EXCEPT the EP

Only the MP and SB

and C0+Everyone

So double suited, crappily connected one mid pair should be played more...

What about if I had a pair of 2s instead of a pair of 10s with a DS hand.

8s2d2s3d

Raise if limped to me 25% and call vs sb 100%

Raise First-In
25% (-0.42)

Call vs
SB 99% (-0.96)

If I turn that into a single suited hand:

8s2d2s3c... it's now a fold 100% of the time...

So here, we are seeing that 8TT3 SS is worse in the BB than 4564 SS.

This is hints that all four cards being connected in PLO is more important than cards being high... and that lower cards that avoid the primary sections of other players ranges do better than cards that hit it (e.g. T).

Three more hands played and some money lost.

1st: 3c3d9s3h in the BB vs a CO open.

I folded.

CORRECT

Fold 100%

2nd: More interesting - Kc7h3d5d on the button

I folded.

CORRECT

Fold 100%

3rd: KsKd4s4d in the SB.

It folded to me and I opened.

Interesting to see two things:

1) Raise first in is balanced with limp strategy to take from SB (and always wants me to limp raise)
2) The hand is always a 3b, and nearly always a cold 4b except from EP+MP and EP+CO
3) It's not always a cold call of a 3b, only about 30% of the time.

So basically it's a very good hand. And you want to have a mixed cold 4b vs flat 3b vs fold strategy vs the EP+MP/CO - otherwise shovel money in.

Raise First-In
77% (0.89)

Limp
23% (0.98)

Limp-raise
23% (1.44)

3Bet vs
EP 100% (0.18)
MP 100% (0.82)
CO 100% (1.48)
BU 100% (2.8)

Squeeze vs
EP+MP 100% (4.02)
EP+CO 100% (0.35)
EP+BU 100% (0.48)
MP+CO 100% (2.96)
MP+BU 100% (2.76)
CO+BU 100% (4.2)
EP+MP+BU 100% (-5.72)
EP+MP+CO 100% (0.2)
MP+CO+BU 100% (5.83)
EP+MP+CO+BU 83% (-53.14)

4Bet vs
BB 77% (0.23)

Cold call 3bet vs
EP+MP 28% (0.6)
EP+CO 30% (1.35)
EP+BU 22% (-0.75)

Cold 4bet vs
EP+MP 32% (-0.94)
EP+CO 4% (-1.6)
EP+BU 78% (-0.53)
MP+CO 96% (0.07)
MP+BU 96% (-0.08)
CO+BU 100% (2.61)

Call vs 4Bet vs
CO 100% (-10.49)
BU 100% (-7.09)

Here is what happened post flop:

PokerStars Zoom, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $15.05 (60 bb)
MP: $22.45 (90 bb)
CO: $24.07 (96 bb)
BU: $2.05 (8 bb)
SB (Hero): $25.00 (100 bb)
BB: $16.40 (66 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with K♠ K♦ 4♠ 4♦
4 players fold, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) Q♦ 3♣ Q♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.95, BB calls $0.95

Turn: ($3.40) 5♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.63, Hero calls $1.63

River: ($6.66) 3♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3.19, Hero calls $3.19

Total pot: $13.04 (Rake: $0.55)

Showdown:
BB shows 5♥ Q♣ A♥ 2♥ (a full house, Queens full of Fives)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 34%, Flop: 78%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

SB (Hero) mucks K♠ K♦ 4♠ 4♦ (two pair, Kings and Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 66%, Flop: 22%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

BB wins $12.49

To be honest I really didn't know what to do on the flop. It feels like a situation where I am very far ahead or very far behind my opponent. I am going to ask on JNP and find out how to play. After I get flatted, I feel so confused - as I know it's a spot where I am either v ahead or behind - I don't know how to work out if my opponent is bluffing.

sick work
keep up that stuff <3

HEY - I wasn't expecting a comment. Thank you Kelly

It's really encouraging and nice to hear.

So I got a little feedback on the KK44 hand and this was the best of it:

"it's rather standard. With an overpair on a paired board you are usually ahead, but sometimes very behind vs trips indeed. But when you're ahead often, you want to bet many of your hands for a small sizing. Sometimes you also want to check back, which you can do with some overpairs but definitely not this one. Even if you get raised, you have two backdoor flush draws and 4 boat outs if he has trips, so you should be able to comfortably call a raise."

[I didn't show this person the play on later streets]

But basically if way ahead way behind... bet small? And with BDFDs (which I didn't think about) and two boat outs I can call a raise. I don't know if my sizing was ok at 1/2 pot but I don't think it is terrible. Maybe 1/3 is best.

The person giving feedback said "something closer to 1/3 would be closer to GTO indeed as far as I know. But against some players who have almost no raise bluffs in their range I usually just bet 50% to not induce light floats, but yea 1/3 is better. With a hand like yours with so much backup I do often bet small (around 1/3 to 1/4) to actually induce bluff raises or very light floats."

ok, that makes sense, I think 1/3 to 1/4 is kind of cool. WHY: to induce light floats / bluff raises

After discussing the turn:

"Anyway on the turn I expect to be behind a good portion fo the time but you only need to be ahead about 25% of the time if you dont expect him to bluff river, so against most players I call. The extra 2 boat out help a little as well on a totally blank turn. But with some reads you can definitely fold against some players. If you call you can expect to be behind more than half the time often against many players in my experience"

"and it's exploitable to give up an overpair all the time after 1 bet, so that's why you have to just call some overpairs."

I think that make sense too - there are three things taking place that I wasn't thinking about.

1) BDFD and Boat outs
2) Betting v small to induce light floats/raises on way ahead way behind flops
3) Needing 25% to call the turn bet
4) Thinking about IF this player will call the river - maybe people don't do too much button mashing in PLO (it was probably v low probability in my hand)
5) Auto folding overpairs to bets is exploitable

I did two more good folds:

BB: 2d8h4sTc - unsuited and two disconnected blocks (T8 and 24) in bb
EP: 5dAhQd4d - non nut flush, two disconnected blocks (AQ 45)

I then had:

SB: JdQdKh9s

PokerStars Zoom, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $61.79 (247 bb)
MP: $25.94 (104 bb)
CO: $23.17 (93 bb)
BU: $25.10 (100 bb)
SB (Hero): $25.00 (100 bb)
BB: $29.40 (118 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with J♦ Q♦ K♥ 9♠
2 players fold, CO raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.40, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.25) 4♦ 9♥ Q♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($1.25) K♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($1.25) 8♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.79, CO folds

Total pot: $1.25 (Rake: $0.05)
SB (Hero) wins $1.20

This was actually a fold pf...
It's a 1/4 flat vs B open..., but 100% open if folded and 100% call 3b

This is interesting, it makes me feel like there are subtle differences in PLO and hands which look similar might not be... let's try a few similar combos:

JdAdKh9s [so similar, slightly less connected, but nfd]

Raise First-In
100% (0.15)

3Bet vs
CO 68% (-0.37)
BU 100% (-0.01)

Call vs
MP 2% (-0.5)
CO 32% (-0.34)

Call 3bet vs
BB 100% (-1.85)

So we can see here that I am opening up a lot... 3b the button 100% and the CO 2/3 of the time... and flatting vs MP 2% and CO 32%... very interesting the 100% btn 3bet!

Also it's not good in multi way pots...

Let's try double suited: JdQdKh9h

Raise First-In
91% (0.42)

Limp
9% (0.43)

Limp-raise
9% (0.48)

3Bet vs
MP 100% (-0.17)
CO 100% (0.25)
BU 100% (0.72)

Squeeze vs
EP+CO 26% (-0.65)
MP+CO 1% (-0.52)
MP+BU 61% (-0.54)
CO+BU 99% (0.14)
MP+CO+BU 10% (-0.6)
EP+MP+CO+BU 43% (40.58)

Call vs
EP 93% (-0.45)
EP+MP 1% (-0.41)
EP+CO 69% (-0.58)
EP+BU 100% (0.35)
CO+BU 1% (0.02)

Call 3bet vs
BB 91% (-1.29)

Call vs 4Bet vs
MP 100% (-9.05)
CO 100% (-8.52)
BU 100% (-8.17)

This massively increases the playability of the hand!

I'm now basically shoving money into the middle. [Except for overcalling] - 3betting open raisers [bar EP] squeezing most and calling sometimes.

I'm also calling 4bets, even though I'm losing money, it's less money than just folding.

However CO was non full stack player so probably not terrible here.

There are few questions for post flop:

1) Should I have donked the flop - if so why?
2) Should I have donked the turn - if so why?
3) Should I have c/r the flop - if so why?

No answers from various sources yet!