Seems insanely stupid. Why not just deposits more and learn at 50nl. Even if you sunrun you're likely not good enough to win above 10nl.

I don't have the money to deposit that much. It's mainly for a bit of fun right now also. And when you think about it, I think it's still a quicker approach then grinding out more BIs in the lower micros and going slow. With the added benefit of the chance of moving up a lot quicker. Downside of course is more movement up and down, and a bigger chance to lose my sanity and tilt hahaha.

I realized after posting though, that I may need to be slightly less aggressive. Maybe 2-3 BIs (or slightly more) per stake. Cause if I just use the 1 BI idea, as soon as I lose part of my stack, I'm left short-stacked on the table lol. Won't have enough in the BR to top-up the stack. And if I use slightly more BIs, then I can also multi-table to help move a bit faster. So I may change it slightly.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm not doubting I'm not good enough to win at nl50 or higher right now. Maybe I am, but probably not. That's why I'm working on a simpler strategy first, so although I'll be passing up a bit of EV, I'll have a solid strategy that will profit more from opponents making mistakes while ensuring I don't make huge mistakes myself.

Raising 5bb from ep is a big improvement from that 10bb idea lol. Still, it´s very far from your goal (as you said) of having a solid game. Seriously, if you´re unable to invest money in poker related material, play no higher than 10nl, play high volume, then save enough from winnings + rb. Use that money to invest in your game, get a rio essential subscrition or whatever. After you develop a solid game, then do a BR challenge like that. Just my 2c.

Also, use the 2 street game, if you really want, only vs bad fish. Regs are smarter than that, and they will eat you alive, esp at higher stakes.

While solid advice, I have enough faith in my understanding of the game to know how to improve my strategy on my own without investing more money. That's what I did at the start of this thread to come up with a decently winning strategy for nl5/nl10 without a whole lot of work. If I use the same mathematical principles to build this updated strategy, I'm sure I can build a strategy good enough to beat up to nl50 (at least).

Just to explain the 5bb idea, I was using the same principles as I was when I came up with the 10bb idea. I just applied them wrong earlier. I was looking for a size to deny them odds with calling more hands than they should be. But I didn't take into account the times they would have to give up when I cbet. So I ended up figuring out that 5bb was a good size. By the way, this is for EP. Don't know if I'll get the same result for the other positions yet.

And with the bigger raise size, I can make my postflop strategy simple and effective. Bet/raise tighter, check/call more, and let my opponents make the mistakes. Don't make the big mistakes myself, and sacrifice a little bit of EV in the process. But give my opponents the chance to make the big mistakes and increase the winrate. I think this approach will help with the aggressive BRM approach.

Can you explain this further? It will be designed to be balanced/unexploitable, just like the 3 street game. Only thing is I'll be sacrificing a bit of EV by check-calling slightly more, and betting slightly less. If they fold more, my bluffs will still profit. If they fold less, my value hands will still profit more. But although they can't exploit me, they will be able to make big mistakes. It's just an "adjusted GTO-type" style with larger bet-sizing. And simpler to design, to ensure that the strategy is more solid (ie less possible mistakes)

EDIT: Basically, I'm counting on a strategy in which I intentionally make some smaller mistakes, while avoiding making large mistakes, to put my opponents in unfamiliar/uncomfortable situations in which they will quite possibly make big/huge mistakes as a result of not knowing what to do in these unfamiliar situations. Even if it's just the fish/rec players making these mistakes, that should more than make up for any lost EV on my part.

I agree with you, I think the most difficult part is to move down as it's difficult/slowly to recover that money lost.

thanks for your feedback .we're always learning!

I read couple of last pages of this thread i know why all or many of you are micro limit players, guys your are insane , dont try to be perfect and stuff GTO talk for now, you are far from it, and dont need it, simples. Simples rules for crushing, you ingore them all, and trying to find solutions.

Just because you talk like a ship builder does not mean you are one. Remember that guys. It hurts my soul and poker brain looking at this , and reading it, so i know why i stayed of it most of my life, and bad english of course, tho for my country im one of the better in it.

Ok, I thought a little bit more about your idea. You didn´t put any specifics, but I´m assuming you´ll be using a very polarized range postflop right? And check calling or folding the remaining ones? While playing tighter pf. So I guess there is a way to play that strategy while being unexploitable, but I can´t see how the regs will do any mistakes vs you when your ranges are going to be so much tighter and face up. Even considering you will add the right amount of bluffs. FR is easier than 6-max and has lower variance for a reason, and it´s not only because the level of play is worse.

But it might work for a while until ppl get more reads on you, which might take a while. I hope you don´t overplay your big pairs and tptk hands tho, as the range they will be calling or especially 3betting your big ep raises pf and big cbets won´t be dominated Ax or Kx as you might think They will still have hands that play very well vs you, like a few suited connectors for example.

I´m talking about regs btw, not fish.

Because people establish themselves at the next stake up and feel they are that calibre of player. If you are constantly moving up/down you never have this issue to begin with.

Grinding a month at 5nl to move up to 10nl then running bad and having to move down sucks, this way you are never established at a stake just trying to move up as quickly as possible.

There are definitely flaws in it and I'm not sure really on how it establishes itself but does playing higher than you are a winner really become more of an issue than grinding a stake forever when you're a small winner? You're much more likely to try harder to learn when you're playing higher. The main issue I have is it isn't a beginner friendly way of playing and I'm not trying to encourage people to play higher than they should.

FWIW I think OPs interpretation of what I posted is pretty bad and kind of misses the point of what I'm talking about.

this is very ******ed. based on your handful of topics, nl2 or nl5 is the highest limit you can beat consistently, so gambling with no bankroll in order to shot nl50 is pointless for you. it can be fun, but learning a winning strategy and making it work is way more fun.

First off, appreciate what you were trying to do for that guy in the other thread (if I'm remembering the name correctly). Haven't looked at that thread since then, so not sure what, if anything, became of that.

First off, not sure what those "simple rules" are; feel free to share. However, I do enjoy working on the theoretical aspects of the game from time to time. So even if "GTO" is not needed, it's still fun to try and learn. And it does help in getting a better idea of how we can deviate from that to exploit players. Maybe it's obvious to you what those "simple rules" are, but for me, it's not. And working on the theoretical side helps me to figure stuff out.

Yes, it will be very polarized postflop. And you are correct; tighter preflop ranges, and just check-calling or folding the rest. Even regs can make mistakes against this strategy. Calling too many hands preflop for example, or the wrong types of hands. With the 5bb open-sizing, it's not quite big enough for them to fold everything. I think a lot of them will treat it similar to a 3bb raise, but maybe eliminate the weakest of hands from their defending range.

Postflop, they can make mistakes by calling with hands that are worse than my bluffs (such as dominated draws, for instance), or worse "air" hands as another example (like if I'm bluffing with A-high with AK, and they call a bet with A-high with AQ). Fish are the most likely to make these kinds of mistakes, but regs can do so as well (with lesser frequency though).

And not to worry, I'm not overplaying those types of hands you mentioned. My raising/cbetting ranges/frequencies are based purely on math. So if I'm betting with a hand, it's because it's profitable against the range of hands they have to call with. And if they only continue with a tighter range than they should, the lost EV will be made up for with my bluffs.

And I hope they call preflop with suited connectors lol, because they will be more likely than not to get into trouble. First off, they won't have the odds to call preflop (this is based on my EP range; their odds might get better as we get closer to the BB, but still might not be good enough). Second, when they do hit, they're gonna have second-best draws a lot of the time when most of the money goes in.

I agree, I probably misinterpreted your intentions. However, my idea was just trying to expand upon that based on what I thought your intentions were. I thought you were just trying to find the quickest way to be able to establish yourself BR-wise at a certain stakes, to get past the micros ASAP. And I'm not certain my idea would be quicker, but seems like it might be.
The only thing I'm unsure about is the setback once you lose your shot and you have to move back to nl2.

I appreciate your thoughts. I am working on a simpler strategy right now which should help with those stakes. I don't think I'll need much more than that to beat up to (and including) nl50. Even in my short stint at nl25 so far, I felt like I could already be beating that level. Going forward (after settling in at nl50) to nl100, nl200, and beyond is where I think I'll need to work on my game a lot more. I could be wrong, and if I am, at least I'll have a better idea of where I stand at nl50 after having spent some time playing there.

how many times have you felt exactly the same in the last 7 years?

after 100k hands your expected winnings @ nl5 & nl10 should be between 500-1000$ at least, and your EV is around 50$. there's a ***** long way ahead to beat 0.25/0.5.

First people told you correctly your bankroll managment is crazy. You can not move through limits like that. If you want to improve your game and move stakes quickly. First play regular tables and not zoom. Second play on few sites and not one, that gives you better chance to have good games or more of a % of good games vs bed reg infested games. Winrates are much lower on zoom/speed and if you dont have good rb deal there is no point in trying to beat them and losing time with inferior winrare.

Some people said to me, i can not keep my money on skrill and play many sites, its draining to to it each day. Oky i say, goodbye, and good luck. Simple rules for happy life and big winrate. I offer for free. But im the high priest , listen everything. I dont need people to think and be creative when playing micros, i need following, followers, and when you go to nl50, nl100 than start being creative and we can talk, until than listen and follow. That is the point.

So far, I haven't really done any work on my postflop game yet. It's been all preflop, and I haven't even worked out proper 3betting (or calling open-raises) ranges yet. So I think that's pretty good what I've accomplished so far.

Before I start aggressively trying to get to nl50, I will be working on a simplified postflop plan. If I was just struggling to be a winner at nl10 without really having a solid postflop strategy in place, and not even having all my preflop ranges worked out, my results should be a lot better with a more solid strategy in place. And if you still don't have any faith, just wait until I have some results to post back and then you can see if you're right or not.

One of the big things I like about Stars is that I can trust them. And I can easily withdraw from the site and receive the funds within a couple of days. And it's still more than possible to win there. But, I'd be curious to hear your simple rules, if you're wanting to share them.

By the way, you're not Gordon, are you?

No im not Gordon. And dont have ties to his coaching for profits.

Yes. I am willing to share. But will you follow them. You have your preflop ranges (to lose) and not optimal for micros. As well as some of your play. If you are interested pm. I will give you part of material. Then test it see if it works better than your idea. If you are really interested.

3 months nl50. And then be creative. Or grind zoom and ask yourself where did it go wrong.

I was just joking about the Gordon comment, but you do kind of present yourself like him hahaha.

I don't think you have enough posts in these forums in order to send/receive PMs. But make a few more posts (I'm not sure the exact number you need), and then PM me once you're able to. Whatever you send me, I will test out with a completely open mind and see how it goes.

that's what i said, if you're struggling to work out a preflop game for a couple of months, learning postflop will last for ages.

gl anyway, i'll revisit this topic in 1 month.

I don't know if you'd rather see just the week's results each week, and then see results-to-date monthly or every few months. Or like how I've been doing it so far by only posting graphs for each stake with all hands played from the start. This week, I'll just post results for this week, and you can let me know what you prefer.

Like I mentioned a few days ago, I let the recent run-bad stretch tilt me this week, and lost several BIs because of that. That's why my volume was low, because I took a break from playing the last half of the week. That, and I was working on the updated strategy. I'll try not to complain about running bad anymore though lol.

nl5 this week:


nl10 this week:


BR: Around $80 (don't have Stars open to double check)
Cashed out this week: $0
Cash Out Total: +$86.84 CAD

==================

After chatting back and forth with MMSS, I've found I like his BRM approach. So I'm gonna experiment with a modified version of that for now. I'll start playing again a bit tomorrow. Still nowhere near done work on the strategy, but I'll probably devote 2-3 hours each day working on it until the major parts of it are done. In the meantime, I'll just play with my current strategy, while adding in parts of the updated strategy as they come along.

And I realize that if I sun-run and get to nl50/100 early, I may not be good enough to beat those stakes yet. But it'd still be good to get some experience there while I improve the strategy. Anyway, here are the new guidelines that I'll try using:

NL2: 0 - 50
NL5: 50 - 65
NL10: 65 - 90
NL16: 90 - 130
NL25: 130 - 205
NL50: 205 - 355
NL100: 355 - ???

There are no real shots in this approach. As soon as my BR is enough to play the next level, I will move up. If I lose half a BI or more (roughly), I'll drop back down and "grind" that half a BI (or whatever I lost) back, and then move up again. Once I reach nl100, I'd like to build my BR more and grind a bit of a cushion there before building shots for higher.

And I know I'm being ambitious by thinking about settling in at nl100 at this point in time. But why not? I have confidence that as soon as the bulk of the strategy is finished, I'll be good enough. Ridicule me all you want lol, I'm setting the bar a bit lot higher.

i just dont see how its a good idea. youll be playing so underrolled at every stake that the moment variance hits itll set you back all the way to the start and youll go up again then get set back to the start. the idea of having a bankroll is to offset variance so your edge can actualize with this strategy that edge could never actualize unless you sun run at the exact right spots and really good. you may just be doing something that is insane that will lead to no real long term progress.

Hey PokerPhilosopher, was reading and thinking a little bit about the BR strategy, especially after you said you also tilted a little bit recently.

Will you be comfortable in going in an all-in situation knowing a loss will mean dropping down several limits, or busto if you tilt even for only a few seconds and forget to check the cashier? Can you really play optinally with that pressure on your back? Facing unknown regs in an unknown limit under pressure if you can tilt sometimes (as you said ) is quite dangerous.

I would suggest a somewhat more safer 10 bis per level (still aggro but progress will be fast with some luck anyway), but think about at least doubling the requirements (from 2.5-3 to 5-6 buy-ins per level). Still fast progress if you catch a heater, but safer and more comfortable.

You´re human right? lol Don´t underestimate our own capability as humans of screwing up the best of plans when facing unbelievable beats.

GL!

You realise swings are bigger at 100 and 200 right? Losing 5 buyins is a super standard session.

Your strategy should be to improve so you can beat the majority of regs at the limit you aim to be at.

This get rich quick scheme is so delusional.

How is it a get rich quick scheme? It's a aggressive shot taking approach that's all. If you aren't a winning player at the limits you don't win regardless of your approach to moving up. If you are a winning player and you are happy moving up and down it's tonnes better than grinding out 50BIs to move up.

Lol 3.5 buyins (100nl amount) isn't aggressive shot taking it's called having 0 bankroll management.

It´s a quick BR building strategy where he would be capitalizing on catching a heater on a small sample. I think when/if he gets there, he´ll stop and reevaluate, not keep playing as a regular with that BRM.

I´d suggest (for the 12345th time lol) that if op builds his BR to that level, he withdraw a big portion of it and invest in standard tools, training sites and coaching.