I'm weird, but I enjoy playing poker just as much as I did 10 years ago. Big thing is just life balance.

I think if I was playing for a living I doubt I'd enjoy it nearly as much. Also, I think that stagnation really affects enjoyment. If you aren't moving up/improving/seeing measurable improvements in your life and finances then it just becomes a huge ****ing grind.

DK, I'm not being facetious when I say that so far, marking cards is the best explanation I have for this outlier. The only few counters I have are that I regularly pay attention for marked cards (as a habit, not just this game) and that he also displays a high level poker thought.

DC, lol.

Sb2, I've said this before but honestly I think you sometimes have very advanced training that does not apply directly to live game dynamics. For example, previously you asked about how live plo is profitable or not variance ridden when we can't fold people off of their equity. Remember however that folding out equity is a fairly advanced concept and is most applicable to very balanced games with razor thin edges. Poker is first and foremost about having a good hand/position, and selectively putting money in the pot when it favors us to do so. Going all the way back to TOP, we make money when people incorrectly call with their limited equity.

Cliffs, KQs does not particularly care about folding out the equity of 4 villains 35% ranges. It cares about putting money in the pot when it is ahead, and from #1s perspective, it cares about not incorrectly folding. (So what you are thinking about, but in reverse). KQs will have to incorrectly fold a very high % of flops when we 4x and spr goes to like 2 or 3 for half of villains involved.

Also, I'm not sure that is why he limps them. It is just my educated guess after pondering it for quite some time.

Also also, I do not believe he has solved live poker. It is quite possible hes never even gone into deep thought on his own game. I think he is an outlier, and his unique style just happens to be a top 1% style. Those who are familiar with Malcom Gladwell's book will know what I mean.

11t, I didn't mean to sound overly negative. Just for me poker has always been about making money. The few times I enjoy the game are when everyone is having a good time, laughing, talking, drinking, etc. Dumb bluffs, funny bad beats, no one gets super negative when they lose, etc. Whether I win or lose, those games are fun. And I haven't been in one of those in a very long time.

Kinda mutually exclusive

Uhhhh...yeah this player has been a professional 5/T+ player for as long as I've played with him (6+ years), is very well studied, puts in tons of hours at the table, has most certainly been making 10bb+/hr at 5/T over that time frame, and regularly plays T/20 as well as 5/T/25 PLO...it's just that those games tend to run in home games here rather than at the casino.

For being a guy that is just trying to make it as a 2/5 pro you sure seem to have all the answers. This know-it-all attitude and inability to think outside the box is going to inhibit your growth and prevent you from becoming as good of a player as the player that Avaritia descibes. I'm sure you can take solace in the fact that you are a better player in your own mind but you aren't ever going to make heaps with that attitude. There is definitely a group think mentality in the poker community and on twoplustwo in regards to the proper way to beat the games. Players that subscribe to such thinking tend to be very mediocre and easy to play against.

It is also possible his style is a good match for his personality and image. He might just be running hot with his play style/ mixture of good hands/ heater for however many sessions you have been paying attention for. He could also be an intelligent seasoned consistent winner, who also has a perfect image for his play style.

"Folding out equity" is just a fancy label to a basic concept even 1/2 player knows.. Ie. more hands in the pot the less equity your hand has.

Why do you think omcs jam their $200 all in preflop when there's only $20 in the pot when they have KK? Because they don't want to see an ace on the flop. Even they know random cards hit enough that the less hands see the board, the better. So it's not some fancy schmancy gto concept.

Like doesnt matter whether you are playing 0.01/0.02 or 1000/2000, cards still hit at the same rate. Math is math. Even doug polk (not to appeal to authority here, but his words would have more weight here I imagine ) has said that people shouldn't use their notion of "exploitative play" as crutches and not learn good fundamentals.

But yeah we don't even know what was really going on with this guy and it's possible that you saw a small sample of hands where it happened to be the right play given the specific game condition at the time. Maybe you should just ask him directly lol. Even if he doesn't straight up divulge his secrets something can probably be learned still.

I'd rather subscribe to that group mentality than participate in a limp/3b J8s philosophy - I think this is quite close to the definition of "very mediocre" and maybe that's putting it lightly.

The only way I think you could justify limp 3betting this is if you had some sick physical soul real on your opponent to indicate they were weak - but this "very well studied" 5/T player clearly didn't even have that if their opponent had QQ. In fact, they probably have some pretty bad mental game leaks if they're doing this with any frequency...

There's nothing subjective about this either - limp/3betting J8s is not the most profitable way to play that hand and it probably never will be.

It's interesting that you think you have solved a game you haven't even played without any regards to the game dynamics or stack depths. Poker is an ever-changing game and dealing in absolutes is a big mistake because what may be wrong in certain spots may be right in others. What may be bad today may be good tomorrow. Until a few years ago the conventional wisdom was that limping the button was terrible. Then a training video came out about the merits of limping the button and suddenly all the sheeple started limping the button. It's quite sad that players who put in hundreds of thousands of hands couldn't figure out something so simple for themselves.

Anyways, I'd say it's very reasonable in both low stakes games and many mid stakes games to have limping ranges and limp-raising ranges which are adjusted based on the dynamics of the hand with the purpose of a raise being either for value, or to bluff, or for isolation purposes (potentially as a range merge). In pots where you limp/raise you will tend to go to the flop much more vs fish/whales than you will vs good/solid players. This can squeeze the solid player out of the pot and also make it more difficult for them to squeeze you out.

Yes it's a label for something that has always existed, similar to gravity. That doesn't mean though that Newton/Janda didn't contribute some very complex knowledge when they expounded on their ideas.

Also, bolded is not necessarily true.

And it's not a fancy gto concept, but again the idea of making villain incorrectly fold his equity applies more to balanced ranges than it does to unbalanced ones. Vs. unbalanced games where villains over call, we don't want our focus to be to fold out equity but instead bet the maximum dollar we can with our value hands and under bluff as much as possible. This is because live villains for the most part are always realizing their equity bc they are short stacked calling stations.

Yes math is math, but multiway math and theory has not been explored in depth by any great poker minds, and I believe it is much more complex than most realize. Even the wize and powerful Doug Polk has a weaker game as the #players increase in a game type.


I offered him $10,000 for ten 1 hour sessions where I could ask him anything I wanted, and he laughed and politely declined.

Think I'll bow out for now.

He probably thought you were joking. I'm sure praying you are.

Yeah, if someone told me that I'd definitely think they are trolling me.


Also,

Excellent, succinct response imo.

+1

Really helps that poker is just a hobby for me. I've been playing in my room for 11 years and playing 1+ times a week the whole time (doubt I've gone more than 2 weeks without playing, with the possible exception of my honeymoon). Still enjoy it every bit as much as I always have, even with the diminishing returns of late. But really helps to have other things in your life to balance it (for me: wife + stepkids + family life, friends, music, TV brain dead time, hockey + other sports, camping, etc., and of course a real job sucks up a lot of time too). Balance is everything.

Played 3 nights in a row this weekend thanks to my wife's work schedule. Would have passed on a 4th night had I been given the opportunity.

Gifyou'renotenjoyingpokeryou'reprobablydoingitwron g,imoG

Ava, is this the lawyer guy you've mentioned before? Seems like he offers a nice case study in how an exploitative style might be better suited to live games than "standard"/2+2/LOLGTO approaches. I say go for the 1K hours of live tracking, but don't go it alone. Maybe start a PGC/thread in which you post some of his hands, or consult some of your respected poker buddies. Getting lots of feedback seems key since, as you've noted, watching the guy crush at absurd rates must be a mind****.

nice comment GG, and great to hear!

Sorry if my sarcasm/troll antennae are just off, but is it confirmed that MikeStarr is the player Ava is referring to?

No, it is not mike, not his room. Although mike probably has seen my #2 player, and I'm certain #3. There are certainly some good players in sfla (and I won't out any of them)

Bob, yes that's the guy. Thank you for the post, wrt a pgc tracking his play, I've thought about it. Regarding consulting, unfortunately i have no friends. I am lucky as I have a very intelligent player that is interested in his play. I plan on consulting with him as I accumulate stats and hand histories.

BGP, heh, to be fair I started at $5. If he's not cheating its probably worth $20 to me.

Tbh I think you'd benefit more by spending the same amount of time and energy on improving your own game as opposed to obsessing over this guy's. Ik you're doing it to ultimately improve your game by imitation but we don't even know whether that's a good idea as we cannot guage how winning this player actually is - and we certainly shouldn't base it off a few big winning sessions you've seen. You may have all sorts of confirmation biases going on and you've already established this bloke takes weird lines - limping KQ isn't some sort of genius play, this guy likely isn't an amazing player despite what you've seen.

You have much to learn young grasshopper.

Also to be clear I've played several hundred hours with him, and several thousand hours total. Only seen a few real crushers, and the others have always been lag. He's such an odd bird.

Not buying that all the "crushers" are lags, especially at higher stakes. Someone with a 500bb stack who is in for 700bb all the time is not impressive.

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The best players I know at 10/25 are taggy but great hand readers and know how to apply pressure to weak ranges.




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I mean that's kinda my point. At higher stakes you just can't make up for giving away too much equity pre-flop. If someone is a great hand reader but spews a lot pre-flop, he would do better by playing more solid pre-flop.

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I would agree with you. I should have included an "apparent" in that sentence, and to be clear I'm talking specifically 2/5 and lower.

Especially regarding the higher stakes, I'd second what Miami says.

Yep I was agreeing with you


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I use to be super laggy, then i moved up stakes and it didn't work so i adjusted. Agree with this 100%

Just got back from a trip in argentina. Had a lot of food and even managed to find poker.

Summer is a great time to go (for me personally) because it's winter there. There were no tourists in sight (!!!) so things are more quiet and authentic.





Pretty good for the middle of the winter. It's pretty european there in terms of architecture (with prices to match), at least in the nicer parts of downtown. Clean, safe, friendly people for the most part.

Hotel:





Service was amazing. EXCEPT they kept on referring to me as Mrs. (my last name).

Cool looking building next to it:



Fooooooooooooooooood

This place perfectly suits a night owl like me. The day starts later and restaurants don't open for dinner until like 7-8, and then they serve until 2am or so.

So they are super duper big on beef. If you love beef and lots of it, that's the country for you to visit. Consumption per capita is like 190 pounds/year or something.

This is one style of how they cook their meat in restaurants (I think those are baby goats/lambs/pigs)



Is it just me or does it look slightly uncomfortably graphical

They bring chunks of roasted meat to you on plates



But they do meat on the grill too!



They also grill cheese by the wheel...


Wine is only served by the bottle in restaurants and it's really cheap - you can get the smaller bottle for the price of a glass in american restaurants. I think I've averaged a bottle per day



Yeaaah so def not a country you go to try to lose weight. On top of all the meat cheese and wine, they have a huge sweet tooth too. Dulce de leche is their favorite dessert and they put it in everything..

Like in their national snack - alfajores - shortbread cookies with a thick layer of dulce de leche in the middle.



And in ice cream.. It's huuuge there. Every ice cream place sells their stuff by the kilo and does delivery.

Shopping for sweets there is the BEST. They give you free stuff right out of the display for you to sample as you shop. I was buying truffles and they gave me half of what I bought in freebies.

The gamb00l

I OBVIOUSLY had to check out their casino once I found out that they have poker. On weekend nights they had 25/25 pesos and 25/50 pesos running. So that's about 1.5/3 (oh they also have terrible inflation so it might be like 1/2 by the end of the year).


Airport-style security with xray belts and walk through detectors

Closer...




So it's a room in the basement but that's okay!

Okay so apparently there are no atms in the casino. You either bring the cash or you can withdraw using your credit card. I'm not sure if that's actually helping problem gamblers (I assume that's the reason) or making things worse.

They give me my buy-in in a plaque. The 1.5/3 had no maximum buy-in so we are in for 200bbs. #highroller.


They also have plaques for 500 and 1000 pesos ($30 & $60), which people were actually betting with. SO extra.



Games are probably similar to 1/3s in US. Mostly some omc rec players, MALGs, and some young grinder-types (I wonder if they read 2p2?). The game is mostly loose-passive with a ton of limping pre from any position.

Soooo I didn't find out about the rake beforehand cuz I figure how bad can it be right? Wrong. I figured out eventually that it's 5% NO CAP... I saw the dealer taking out the equivalent of FIFTY DOLLARS from a $1k pot at 1/3 and I died a little inside...

They also stack the chips in the pot and then count out the 5% manually after each hand so it takes kinda long to play each hand.

I ran super hot though (how TF can I never run like this playing higher stakes?!?) soooo the rake is clearly beatable . Got all my food on the trip covered, which's awesome.

THEN I find out no one really wants to convert pesos back to dollars so I have to change it back at a really terrible rate. Good thing I won.

Playing with plaques is a life goal. Doesn't matter what it says on the face. Food looks amazing too