If I flat and then fold, they would go in the <5 BB pots. So ... these would be situations where I either fire or call a c-bet and then fold on later streets.

Still - this seems like a clear area that I need to examine further with more filters, positional stats, etc.

I would say 5-15 BB pots are mostly the ones won/lost with no showdown and it's not surprising it's going down 45° at these stakes, since majority of our profits come from showdown winnings. Higher up this line will probably flat out with slight winnings on 50NL and above. Basically it just means we're not bluffing much and value betting our good hands which are winning our showdowns, which is the point of ABC poker at these stakes.

wow, loving the graph of your biggest pots, definetly doin well with the showdowns meaning you are getting "fat value" i actually dont see anything wrong with either of the graphs. i think your 5-15bb pots are down because u are folding to agression pre/flop when u dont have the goods to continue further. if u did then ur results would be better there but not with the bigger pots as u would be folding or losing at showdown.

Yay just found this thread.

subscribed

I started Dec. 26th playing Rush. 6 tables sometimes 8. I wanted to experiment with putting in heavy volume and a few other theories. Needless to say, it's been very break-evenish and I will be dropping down to four tables now. I also felt that it would improve my edge in four tabling. As many already know, practicing with an amount of tables that puts you out of your comfort zone can help when you play less tables.

anyways heres the results for the last 11 days. Lots of volume and rakeback FML. I made $215 in RB so life is good as a micro rb pro.

http://img526.imageshack.us/i/91055506.png/

http://img831.imageshack.us/i/85668121.png/

zomg hes playing right now no wonder i cant beat this ****ing stake
i have him running 18/9 50 hands lolz

200 in rb in 2 weeks,that very good.What stakes?Iv started 4 tabling 10nl rush about last Sunday and put in huge volume but only got 25 in rb but that could be due to the fact i only played 2 days wihtin the ''rakeback week''.

I was 6 tabling nl10 and got about 20k hands in at nl25. I felt more comfortable at nl25 TBH but had to move down to protect my roll. I'm presently coming off a 5 BI downswing. These are totally standard from my experience.

heres a funny one I just played in tonight.

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG: $5.10
UTG+1: $10.00
UTG+2: $22.13
MP1: $10.00
Hero (MP2): $10.58
CO: $24.82
BTN: $6.69
SB: $3.97
BB: $6.85

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP2 with Q A
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, SB raises to $0.90, BB calls $0.80, Hero raises to $2.10, SB raises to $3.97 all in, BB calls $3.07, Hero calls $1.87

Flop: ($11.91) J Q A (3 players - 1 is all in)
BB bets $2.88 all in, Hero calls $2.88

Turn: ($17.67) 8 (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($17.67) A (3 players - 2 are all in)



i know, lol at my 4b sizing.

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG+2: $3.89
MP1: $7.50
MP2: $13.00
CO: $6.30
BTN: $3.20
SB: $11.83
Hero (BB): $11.02
UTG: $10.03
UTG+1: $19.73

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with T Q
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.10, 4 folds, SB calls $0.05, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.30) Q Q 3 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.30, UTG+2 folds, SB calls $0.30

Turn: ($0.90) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.90, SB raises to $2.30, Hero calls $1.40

River: ($5.50) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $2.60, Hero calls $2.60



u learn to not lose your stack in these types of spots in rush. I was happy with my play here.


btw, verneer, u are amazing

Jan 7th Update:

Graph through ~40K hands (+10 BI's in rakeback, which is going to prove huge for this challenge as long as soon as I move up in stakes):



Picked up another 4 BI's in around 3,100 hands. Due to a lot of things going on, I didn't get nearly the kind of volume that I've gotten over the last few days. Still - I feel like the adjustments I've made have made a good difference. Here are my last 14K hands:



I would be totally cool if the rest of the challenge went like that

Bankroll is a $478. I don't think I'll move up to 25NL for at least another week though.

Solid IMO.

Verneer,Quick question.How many hands you play between last tuesday and this tuesday to get that 100 dollar rakeback? assuming you only played 10nl

i paid $23 rake today playing 3k hands nl10 rush playing 14/11.

We pulled into Djibouti a few days ago, and at Camp Lemmonnier (can't spell that damn base right), they had free internet, so I took my laptop and put in about 1000+ hands of 5NL rush last night since I only left like 50 dollars in my bankroll before I deployed. I actually came out about 4 buy-ins.

I played pretty tight, folded a lot in marginal spots, I just wanted to get to show down as cheaply as possible with my marginal hands, and wanted to value town as much as I could with my huge hands. In fact, I stacked a guy 3 times last night, he would't fold to me, and he would min-3bet me every time I open raised. I was playing super tight like 13/11 last night, and every time I would just call his 3-bet and I came out with TPTK or a set, lol, so he helped me definately last night.

The only question I have for you Verneer is what is your 3-bet%? WIth virtually no reads on any players, I have found that I am 3-betting strictly for value about 3% (10-10, AQ+), I just don't see the profit in 3-bet bluffing because I have virtually no reads on any of the players I am involved in.

Verneer, your recent graph with the adjustments and my graph of last night were almost identical, and I typically mirrored your adjustments that you talked about in your recent posts, I was playing around 13/11, playing marginal hands cheaply, value towning big hands, and folding a lot when I just don't think I'm ahead that much. So I think you have the right ideas going forward, atleast at 10NL.

I really think your losses from 15 BB or fewer is from c-bet/folding. I think a lot of players know people c-bet a lot now a days and will call along. I adjusted last night by only c-betting in position when being checked to if I didn't hit the flop, and occasionaly c-betting out of position when the flop was perfect for a c-bet (would hit my range hard, his not so much). I was looking at my graph for when I c-bet out of position when I was the initial raiser, and it was horrid how much BB I was losing. Is this something you were noticing as well? I think my c-bet % went from like 75% to about 56%, just because my c-bet success % dropped pretty significantly in rush.

Verneer, I am also interested in what your HUD display is for rush, and also how you set up your note taking for players.

if you are 4 tabling, it is very key to keep it simple. You can always look at more detailed stats by holding your mouse over the S/N. For 4 tabling rush, a good setup (what I use at least) is VP/PF/3b/Stl/Fsl. This allows you to make fast overall judgments without sacrificing attention from other situations. The time bank is your friend for those. I should note I mostly play 6m. Its also important to remember that you want to keep simple stats in your HUD display due to the large pool of players. You will rarely have over 200 hands on people, even regs. Therefore it is difficult for the stats to converge. Imo, its safer to make blanket judgments about villians overall play and use that as your foundation for exploiting Pf / flop situations. Once your past the turn, it really becomes a matter of your showdown value and the stats are not as important, especially in games being played at a relativlely low overall skill level.

According to HEM, over the last 39,074 hands, I've raked $318.32, so I should have around $85 in rakeback for 2011. A fraction of my rakeback that got put into my account must have been from 2010 - I'll make that adjustment at some point.

My HUD:



At 10NL, I've mostly been using the first line. As I move up and get more hands on people, I'll start using the second and third much more.

From WikiPedia:

The camp originally belonged to the French military, and named after General Emile-René Lemonnier. In 2009, after years of misspelling, the U.S. Navy officially changed the camp's name to properly reflect the spelling of General Lemonnier's name.

Haha ...

What branch of the military are you in? How long will you be there?

This is essentially the winning strat at 10NL[/quote]


Looks like it's 3.4%. There are times when I don't 3-bet TT-QQ, AQ+, and there are times when I 3-bet light (given a read). So ... still a very tight range.

I don't c-bet a lot just because of the garbage that people peel me with ... I'll still run a few more filters to examine that more closely.

Thought you could only do 4 Rush tables at a time?

Verneer, that graph is looking great. The adjustments you made seem to be working. Great job!

Verneer, thanks for doing these types of posts - they are filled with so much valuable information!

Anyways, I want to analyze my own play and was wondering how you go about analyzing your play. Do you just look for common themes in your biggest losing pots or do youhave some favorite filters that help you.You seem to be extremely god at this and I would appreciate any tips you could provide.

no - I have done up to 8 at the micros as a volume and strategy experiment and I think you may be able to do something in the ballpark of up to 12.

Nice Post , it shows that you'd study verneer (and other authors/posters/players)

keep beiing around those treads, your help is very welcome

OMG I could listen/read to you two (Verneer&The_Pest) posting all day. No need to play, it is that much fun.

What is Stl and Fsl?

I tried 6 tabling Rush FR yesterday for 47 minutes 1208 hands. It was hectic. I had to nit it up a little more because i didn't have time to react--I think to myself "*&^$$% no time to play this hand, muck it". I think table ninja tends to lag a bit 6 tabling rush. Also i tried to avoid marginal spots alot like cb oop and giving up on turn--probably a leak but oh well.

steal and fold to steal i believe