Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2017, 10:09 AM   #201
daniel9861
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,226
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Turn might be too thin in 4 unless V is a fish, you're still barreling broadways, or open QJo in that spot.

Hand 1 I would check back that hand. Barrel any offsuit hand with a diamond in it on the turn and only barrel with the ace of diamonds on blank rivers.
daniel9861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 10:42 AM   #202
upswinging
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 371
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

1. If youre going to bet with this hand, it doesn't have to be so big. the sizing doesn't accomplish much. you don't block diamonds. you block QQ, JJ which would be the exact hands you need to be betting so big against to increase fold equity (and have a good read on your opponent that he could lay it down turn or river). which means he just has a small pp, ace highs, and flushes... most of which will fold to a much smaller bet.

you also probably wouldn't be betting so big with all of your value range again factoring in your opponents somewhat weak range. so yea it doesn't make sense.

4. readless think its a bet fold.
upswinging is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:42 AM   #203
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dante's Inferno
Posts: 9,468
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by andees10 View Post
Found some spots I can work on, IBelieveinchipkelly style



More of these hh and less real strat imo
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 04:23 PM   #204
Snowball2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Snowball2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,533
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Fire in the kitchen, hero timed out...?
Snowball2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 09:06 PM   #205
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by day'n'night View Post
4) bet/fold turn. should be very low in our range on this board after betting flop 60% 3way
Quote:
Originally Posted by upswinging View Post
4. readless think its a bet fold.
Yeah wasn't sure about this but I'm thinking I like b/f turn as well being it's my worst value bet

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861 View Post
Turn might be too thin in 4 unless V is a fish, you're still barreling broadways, or open QJo in that spot.
My betting range would look something like this, give or take. I think AQ can also work well as a turn x

Board: AT8r 2d bdfd

*76dd
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 09:16 PM   #206
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
More of these hh and less real strat imo
Standard or spew?



Biggest pot won at 25NL early in my sample. Unfortunately this player type seems to be a unicorn on acr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2 View Post
Fire in the kitchen, hero timed out...?
Nah just an exercise in mental game training. Can't get married to big hands ya know?
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 10:09 PM   #207
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Two recent ones...

1) 5/10 I open HJ 30 QdTc with 2 low 3b nitty players to my left, reg calls bb. 200 bb eff

HU
Flop(65) 986ddd

bb x/c 40

Turn(145) 3c

bb x/c 115

River(375) 5s

bb x, I bet 225.

Worst value bet you have taking this line?


2) How do we feel about all streets?




Hours- 128/400
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 01:48 AM   #208
daniel9861
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,226
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

1) Prob straights and flushes. Maybe just flushes against an aggressive reg who won't hero light but will bluff raise some hands like TT w/ T.

Could be barreling river too wide here. How are you playing AT-AQ w/ A?

2) Looks like a fold since V doesn't get to river with many natural bluffs on this runout and since you're blocking backdoor draws with T. Flop seems fine blocking his pocket 9s and Ts which makes sets more likely, turn could be a lead sometimes but not sure.
daniel9861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 06:03 PM   #209
Snowball2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Snowball2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,533
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

you have sooo few straights there and bb has more straights than you, which means you probably can only bet river with flush+
Snowball2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2017, 11:04 PM   #210
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861 View Post
Could be barreling river too wide here. How are you playing AT-AQ w/ A
On monotone boards like this i'll usually play nf/nfd combos as a cbet. OTR I like having a normal size betting range and an overbet range using the nfds. Pot is 375, we have 1,815 behind (5x pot) so we can fit 8 combos (45%)1,815 /(1,815+1,815+375) for our 10 nut value combos to make him indifferent between calling and folding.

In practice I'm going to err on the side of overbluffing because when facing 5x pot shoves I think most ppl will tend to not meet their mdf just because it's kind of a mind **** to call such a big amount for a pot so little. This will be especially tough in bb's spot if he leaves his x/c call range weak by c/r most of his flushes otf or turn. We have 12 nfd combos available and normally I'd start from the bottom AdTx and work my way up but in this situation I don't mind just jamming all of them. Picture for visualization purposes:



Like you and sb said we probably want to value bet flushes+. I won't really have any straights besides a 75s (which is usually a fold pre expect for this specific situation) which is a debatable value bet imo. I think the best bluffs to choose from are JTo/QTo with a heart (feel free to disagree and tell me why) and we have 12 combos to choose from . Our value range of non-nut flushes only make up 7 combos.

I think you are right about barreling too wide with this sizing. In terms of removal I don't think which diamond I have makes that much of a difference so I should just start from the bottom (JTo). I think the range would look something like this if we were to go for around a 2:1 ratio:




The result of the actual hand was he ended up tanking 10 seconds and folding. I'm guessing he had something like top pair.

Last edited by andees10; 04-27-2017 at 11:16 PM.
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 12:48 AM   #211
ShippItTY
newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 44
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by andees10 View Post
Two recent ones...

1) 5/10 I open HJ 30 QdTc with 2 low 3b nitty players to my left, reg calls bb. 200 bb eff

HU
Flop(65) 986ddd

bb x/c 40

Turn(145) 3c

bb x/c 115

River(375) 5s

bb x, I bet 225.

Worst value bet you have taking this line?


2) How do we feel about all streets?




Hours- 128/400
Hand 1 I would overbet the turn since I probably would with my flushes in this spot. I think I would value bet all 7x and flushes if you're gonna use this size.

Hand 2 I think folding pre is probably closer than you might think. But i would call down. He doesn't have that many flushes flatting the button in this spot that you lose to. Only KQs KTs and QTs really

Glad to see you're doing well btw
ShippItTY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 07:41 PM   #212
Snowball2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Snowball2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,533
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

You should be cbetting pretty wide and not just with draws on this board for a small sizing because BB calls the widest pre out of anyone so they have a ton of hands you can fold out right away for a very small price. But because it's so cheap they'll defend pretty wide too, so on the turn you can continue betting your better draws and value hands, and oop would have to fold their bad one pairs with no flush draws. If you bet big twice it really narrows down their range so that you just have to give up the river a lot. If they are defending properly (ie. giving up all their ****ty 1ps ott) then even if you pot the river, they will still have enough callable hands so you don't want to overbluff the river.
Snowball2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 11:15 PM   #213
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2 View Post
You should be cbetting pretty wide and not just with draws on this board for a small sizing because BB calls the widest pre out of anyone so they have a ton of hands you can fold out right away for a very small price. But because it's so cheap they'll defend pretty wide too, so on the turn you can continue betting your better draws and value hands, and oop would have to fold their bad one pairs with no flush draws. If you bet big twice it really narrows down their range so that you just have to give up the river a lot. If they are defending properly (ie. giving up all their ****ty 1ps ott) then even if you pot the river, they will still have enough callable hands so you don't want to overbluff the river.
For the bolded which range are you talking about, the overbet jam or the 2/3 bet size? I For the 2/3 size I agree with you he'll be able to defend well with his straights so my goal isn't to overbluff (as shown in the 2nd pic).

Facing a 5x pot jam he'll need to call 1 in every 5.88 combos to prevent me bluffing more than my fair share. I guess it depends on if he has enough slowplayed flushes to do this. I'd expect most to be fastplayed before the river so he'll be forced to dip into the 7x combos. IMO calling 1815 isn't easyand it's my guess that ppl will overfold their 7x. I'd rather make an error in this direction than underbluff just based on that assumption. Either way its just a few combos and not that huge of an exploitative adjustment

Last edited by andees10; 04-28-2017 at 11:42 PM.
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 11:21 PM   #214
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShippItTY View Post
Hand 1 I would overbet the turn since I probably would with my flushes in this spot. I think I would value bet all 7x and flushes if you're gonna use this size.

Hand 2 I think folding pre is probably closer than you might think. But i would call down. He doesn't have that many flushes flatting the button in this spot that you lose to. Only KQs KTs and QTs really

Glad to see you're doing well btw
Thanks man good to hear from you. If you're in vegas the third week of june and want to grab a drink shoot me a pm.

Was torn otr in hand 2 and ended up folding. Felt like this hand was right on the borderline. I'll have TTs, some Qx and Kx of spade that can x/c turn and get to the river. I agree preflop isn't printing money or anything especially vs the full 3x and factoring rake. This is one of the lowest off suit hands I'd call.
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:18 PM   #215
Snowball2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Snowball2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,533
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by andees10 View Post
For the bolded which range are you talking about, the overbet jam or the 2/3 bet size? I For the 2/3 size I agree with you he'll be able to defend well with his straights so my goal isn't to overbluff (as shown in the 2nd pic).

Facing a 5x pot jam he'll need to call 1 in every 5.88 combos to prevent me bluffing more than my fair share. I guess it depends on if he has enough slowplayed flushes to do this. I'd expect most to be fastplayed before the river so he'll be forced to dip into the 7x combos. IMO calling 1815 isn't easyand it's my guess that ppl will overfold their 7x. I'd rather make an error in this direction than underbluff just based on that assumption. Either way its just a few combos and not that huge of an exploitative adjustment
Either range. Mathmatically you can bluff more with bigger sizing but once you do it too much (or perveived to be able to given your image Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10 ) I think it's quite easy to adjust and have more slow plays in oop's range (going to back to my point earlier about their range already being stronger because you bet kinda big twice) or even just call any flush because you are repping really thin (like A2dd-A6dd)
Also I'm not sure if this is a board where you should bet that huge at all esp when you didn't have the Ad blocker but maybe I'm overestimating regs' ability to slow play.
Snowball2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 02:32 PM   #216
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

You're saying 2/3 otr is huge bc I bet 2/3, 2/3 on earlier streets?

The jam range will be close to balanced all I'm saying is I'd rather be closer to overbluffig than under ie I'd rather 10 value 10 bluff than 10:6 where 10:8 is balanced. The first pic overbet range will only happen with the Ad. I don't think 17% of an oop get to river range is flushes so he'll be forced to call some 7x or possibly more if he never slowplays.

Also why can I only have A2-A6dd and not all nf?
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 03:23 PM   #217
Snowball2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Snowball2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,533
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

No 2/3 otr isnt big by itself. Flop is too big to be optimal imo.

Well I imagine youd want to have value in your river bet as well so I think you could have different sizings where you can go bigger if you don't block the stronger flushes he has like Kxdd Qxdd etc.
Snowball2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 08:25 PM   #218
upswinging
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 371
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

H1- bet way way small or check. I would check. You're barreling on a board against a range that completely crushes yours. You're going to have a ton of hands that want to check back flop too. Looks like you're betting just be aggro. I just don't see a good reason to 3 barrel.

H2- checkraise somewhere
upswinging is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 12:21 AM   #219
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2 View Post
No 2/3 otr isnt big by itself. Flop is too big to be optimal imo.

Well I imagine youd want to have value in your river bet as well so I think you could have different sizings where you can go bigger if you don't block the stronger flushes he has like Kxdd Qxdd etc.
That's true. It might make more sense to group higher nut flushes with the other sizing and have the corresponding bluffs shifted down. I think this hand shows how easy it is to get out of line on the river (which I probably did with the QT) if we're barreling a lot of Broadway fd + sd ott.
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 12:38 AM   #220
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

5/10

Splashy rec player opens 40 utg (3.1k), multiple callers, I call otb Q9cc, bb calls. 3k eff. w/ utg

6 way
Flop(240): T99hhd

Checks around to me I bet 125, utg calls

Turn(490): 3d

utg x, I bet 350, x/r to 1,200, call

River(2,895): Js

utg jams 1,775


reads:

- bet/3b/called it off w/ AT on AT4ddd got stacked for 200bb vs a flush earlier
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 01:14 PM   #221
Snowball2
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Snowball2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,533
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

That's so gross, and such good pot odds too

So when is turn CR not a huge hand?Probably cry fold river cuz you don't beat anything. Could start calling at A9+...
Snowball2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 03:43 PM   #222
daniel9861
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,226
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Lol that is gross. I prob call because double flush draw and you're on btn and the AT hand.
daniel9861 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 04:27 PM   #223
andees10
veteran
 
andees10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunrunning
Posts: 2,801
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

I was leaning toward folding until I got the official stack count and was like damn thats a good price. I was also rationalizing Q9 ranks as a better call than A9 because what rec player is x/calling that super draw heavy flop with 5 left to act with a super vulnerable hand like trips. Therefore blocking KQ is more important than beating a weaker 9 because a turn c/r feels like a boat or bluff. (Probably biased bc if I had A9 I'd argue the opposite)

If we're going from a call the top x% of our range perspective this hand is right on the borderline depending on how we rank this within our 9x and what range we get to the river with.

I call and lose to KQo
andees10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 04:45 PM   #224
pokerodox
The Situation
 
pokerodox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: can never leave
Posts: 4,161
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

Wow, just splashy(?)... ch/r turn with two overs and a gut-shot on a paired board. Can I get in this game?
pokerodox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2017, 05:28 PM   #225
day'n'night
old hand
 
day'n'night's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Alaska
Posts: 1,406
Re: Moving up in 2016 - 400 hours at 5/10

h1 imo is a xb flop. If you bet flop id rather pot bet turn and 150% river. maybe pot but thats the least. We should vb anything worst then a straight here.

h2 imo is a fold pre. AP x/r flop. AP x/c turn and x/f river.
day'n'night is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online