I'm not sure folding turn in hand 2 is standard looking at it from both a population tendency and % of range perspective.

In my experience the x/c lead from a rec player in a spot where it doesn't make much sense is often FOS or straight middle pair btn clicking.

If I'm cbetting a high freq. small sizing on this board then JJ would be relatively high in my range at this point

H1 is a call.

Pros lead is good. Not bad.

H2 is the easiest flop check back in the world

H1 I think we can maybe jam depending on remaining stacks.

I don't mind the flop cbet in hand 2 and river I honestly think you can flip a coin, player dependent.

Lol im curious to hear the explanation on this

Isn't it obvious?

The rec has too many hands that would cr / play for stacks on the flop that wouldn't on turn scare cards. On this ltexture pretty much any turn card will kill/ slow action.

The likelihood of tag checking back is really high...

And obviously there's still a ton of 1 pair hands that can get 2 maybe 3 streets of value playing it as a donk instead of 1 maybe 2 streets as a check raise.

It's a slam dunk lead with the fish in the middle.

Yeah bb never has me beat, straddle could have 2 pair I guess and I'm getting better than 4:1. I call and bb has ATo for a rivered 2p, straddle flopped middle set. Honestly wanted to fold flop for the max exploit vs his greedy sizing but couldn't bring myself to it.


H1 Im never jamming (for value?) with about 2.5k behind with straddle. Maybe if we both had 5k+ back I could get ballsy and ship as a bluff vs him and value for the last few hundred in bbs stack. Should get a ton of credit since it's impossible for me to have a true bluff into a dry side pot, I can have the nuts he can't.

Basically was thinking the same thing in H2 and at the time wasn't in the folding mood.

I call and he has 89s for the spaz bc I cbet small.

I get it...good game

h1 We only lose to sets? Isn't straddler going to raise river with sets? It would be too sick for BB to have a set... Maybe it is too thin. But certainly absolutely never ever even considering folding? Like they can vbet worse 2pairs easily...

Straddle isn't going to raise river because he only stands to gain ~$200 from bb and would miss out on a potential 1k overcall from me.

With the possibility of worse 2pair I can obviously never fold. We can never know what his true range is but I'm not sure he takes the same transparent, greedy line/sizing with an Ax 2 pair that blocks a calling range.

Yeah totally fair. =]

Hand 2

Im not sure where you are at online but if you have significant micro volume check your db for x/c/lead lines and you will see it highly skewed to value. One of the bigger ahas I've had last 100k hands.

Yes you get shown the ole' 9 high a chunk but not near as much as a ******ed queen or a silly set.

Lead on Axx as non pfr is bad. With relative position on whale its terribad. Dont feel like explaining further.

Um. He played it in the best way possible. He got max value against the fishes Ax while at the same time keeping the fishes cr option available if he did indeed have a "cooler" hand... on a texture that will be checked back over ~70% of the time.

Make no mistake, you're there to cooler fish. You're there to put yourself in positions to cooler the fish. Deviating from technically sound strategy in order to accomplish that task is 100% the right thing to do. It doesn't matter if the tag knows it's face up, it doesn't ****ing matter if the table dealer included knows it's for value... because you're still going to get max value against the fish.

And getting those easy chips is really all that matters if you're a pro.

This just goes to show how little people actually understand the game / think for themselves. You're grouping Axx together when in this situation A63ss is much different than A63r, just like AJ6ss/ AJ6r is very different and requires a different line.

You're being insanely results oriented. He also gets an absolute nut x/r spot when he plays as a check.

Look, he flopped middle set vs a fish that has top pair and a reg who is near top of his range. Both hit 2 pair by river. Anything he does besides folding is going to be "good"

The difference between A63r and A63s is obv something but you are making it out to be way more than it is. Real leading textures (which are also real xback textures) are where oop flatting range has significant board coverage and equities are closer and ip job is to realize equity and oop job is to make that a pita. Like T96hh.

Do you not know how to read? Andes and any other tag checks this back over 70% of the time. Fish is in, it's a protected pot. The fish is almost 100% cr his value range, the problem is on this texture most of the fishes cr value range goes into mubs on most turns (barring a set of 3s). I've said this like 3 times already.

So when you check here (because that's what the training vid told you), you're losing the ability to play for stacks 70% of the time the fish has a hand to stack off with.. Where if you just lead you're getting to stack off 100% of the time he does have a "cooler" hand... and he's still getting value from fishes Ax when he doesn't have a cooler hand.

You guys are being extremely results oriented that Andes actually had a hand he would cbet flop with.

Interesting this was an aha moment for you because for me I thought I discovered the exact opposite after playing 25NL. I'm not saying you're wrong btw. I can easily have selective memory or be biased based on limited sample. You're also going have to have many more data points than me being that your sample is bigger and you can see opponents hole cards that don't go to showdown.

What I think is an important variable in this hand is my 1/4 cbet sizing. This is also just anecdotal evidence but on many occasions I have seen recreational players go full ****** vs the small sizing (ie x/c lead w/ no equity). Granted they should be doing less folding vs my sizing, but do you ever think we'd ever see anything as close to as bad if we 1/2 pot+ cbet? Doubtful IMO.

I'd be careful about overfolding against this line (JJ is definitely an overfold ott) because all of a sudden that oop no equity float and probe starts printing against our strat.

I will go back into my database at some point though and see what trends I find at 25/50nl and see if l'm being biased with this line.

With smaller sizing you get played back at a ton more this is true but it is also more ok to fold bc of the small sizing.

Also, JJ as an overfold is getting a bit gray. There are *technically* lower value hands that we would be folding less often (7x,45 for starters).

I also think you tend to overthink certain concepts like overfolding. When someone takes this line on this texture they are terrible/exploitable and we should be looking to exploit. Put another way, I dont use words like overfold <$100NL (~10/25 live) bc its just not the right way to think about it. imo

As for your database sample, I dont think $25NL on ACR is low enough. Lol

Most call 3bet ranges are Qx heavy. More so when they call out of position.

If you were dead set on betting this board then choosing a hand like AK is much better. You block quite a few of his possible Qx combos and also ace highs that might check raise.

Finally created an account on ignition yesterday. I need to figure out the best hh converter to import hands into pt4. I downloaded the one from ace poker solutions so i'll see how that goes.

I see there's 50 and 200 zone running but no 100? If any one has any tips about the site/software, comments about how games play, etc. feel free to drop your 2 cents.

My plan is get used to the site at 50 for maybe 30k or so hands then re-eval and either jump into 200 or just continue grinding 50. I'm guessing it shouldn't be too hard to play 2 reg and 2 zone tables at once.

Sounds like a plan! Yeah 100z doesn't run unfortunately. But you should be able to get 2x200z and 2x200r fairly easily.

I think river is a fold in Hand 1. Don't think the pro is calling with worse than AK there.

Play Zone if you want to play more of a GTO strategy. Play reg tables if you want to play more exploitative. I would recommend reg tables since you play live pretty often.

What is your flop betting strategy? Are you 100% cbetting this size here on this board? Do you have any checks on the flop?

Pretty ridiculous. Confident OP can cbet range for 25% here. x is also fine, EV of both are likely v similar ..

Close to 100% on this board yes

True

Would be my fist pick as a 3 barrel for this reason

2 tabling zone and so far getting about 380 hands/hr so I think I'm just gonna stick with this. I'm getting more hands than I was 6/7 tabling acr and sessions feel way easier and more relaxed so I don't think ill add on reg tables for now. Plus the time bank is pretty short, which I like.

In order for that to be true you'd need make big assumptions about hero and villain. With the info that's been provided, it sounds like pure guessing.

Update- Changing my original goal of playing 100k online hands at 50z. At this point I don't really see the value in putting in that volume before moving up. So far I've played about 20k hands so my plan is to re-eval at 50k, then sit 200z if results are good. I'm still loving the zoom format. It's something about only having to look at two windows and not having to squint to see cards while still getting a decent # of hands.

Will post some HHs later

No more live grind?