The Q9 hand is gross. Defiantly a fold pre or 3bet though imo. Maybe it's fine

Yeah I didn't think kq blocker matters enough here just because it's super rare for them to take this line with kq, and you don't block either combo with the flush draw

I wonder if there's merit to either fold or ship ott (and not being result-oriented). Cuz the pot's already so big with not much behind, and there are so many bad rivers for you. If you don't fold on a T river then I don't know which non-flush river that you are not gunna level yourself into calling. So I wonder if you should just gii knowing he can overplay worse and you are stacking off to a cooler anyway.

Why shouldn't we think V is shoving 100% of rivers?

Seems standard to not fold anything that beats 1p vs this guy.

You are still overthinking things.

Turn is a fold/ship and vs this guy it's a clear ship.

So the advice I'm about to give is going to contradict some things I've said pretty recently. However, I've been reading Will Tipton's books and I completely agree with him on how game theory should be applied and how equilibrium ranges are created.

Equilibrium ranges are found after many cycles of two players trying to maximally exploit each other and both of them constantly adjusting to each other's exploits. Therefore the top priority in our decision making process should look for ways to maximally exploit our opponents. Try to get out of the habit of "calling/folding because we're at x% of our range" and get back into a habit of ranging V's bluffing/value/calling/folding combos based on tendencies and experience and acting accordingly.

I don't think it's that relevant either. Just saying its a way I rationalize so I have a reason to call.

With these stacks yes I think it has merit. We benefit a lot by denying equity of his semi bluffs but it's hard for me to wrap my head around jamming where you're not getting worse to call. I still feel like the turn x/r range doesn't have 9x, its boat of bluff.

After seeing how he plays though it's possible he'd just call off with a naked fd or gutter+fd

pretty big assumption

I don't disagree. When I don't have a clue about what someone's doing (like here) OTR I like having a ballpark idea my mdf to fall back on .

I actually think my hand is still a fold even if I use that method as a guideline. More importantly it's hard for me to beat much on this river. In theory I'd have to call some 9x but in practice I think it's ok to give them all up just because it's pretty hard for him to be bluffing. I also still have boats and maybe KQhh so I'm not making too much of a leap

yooo in

Sweet payback. Same player overlimps hj, I raise co 60 ATo we go 4way.

Flop(240) KJ3r
Checks through

Turn Qo
Checks to me I bet 150, he x/r 400, call

River(1040) 7
He jams 1400 w/ A3o

My call/3bet range would shift depending on how bad I believe the blinds are. I certainly lean toward 3 bet more often, especially with those stacks.

to be nice he bluffed with the best possible hand.

Getting barreled ott in 3 bet pots when an overcard comes. What's the plan?

1) 5/10

I open HJ 35 ATs, btn reg 3bets 110, call

Flop(235): T56r
I x/c 125

Turn(485): Ko
x, btn bets 450



2) 5/10/20

I open co 60 KTss, sb reg 3 bets 200, call

Flop(430): K53dhh
sb cbets 375, call

Turn(750):Ao
sb bets 575


3) 5/10- What did I get myself into?

utg opens 40, +1 calls, I call co 87dd, blinds call

5-way
Flop(200): T56hhs
checks to me I bet 125, sb calls, +1 calls

Turn(575): 3s
checks, I bet 380, both call again

River(1,715): 9s
sb leads 850, +1 folds.......

All 3 are spewy.

H1: 4b or fold. Readless, out of position, against a reg. Don't know how you can play this more profitably than a 4b and I don't see any reason to put ATs in a call 3b/ oop range.

H2: you don't say how deep you are, and how good or bad the reg is. You have position, and you're suited, call me a big nit but sometimes I would just toss this one in and not tell anyone. I mean regs don't tend to **** around in straddled pots out of position.

H3: no reason to bet the flop. Lots of better hands and draws are check calling flop. If this was 3 way I don't mind the bet- but it's 5 way. Turn bet also doesn't accomplish much.

Stacks:
1- 2k
2- 2.5k
3- 2k

Not a fan of posting paragraphs on player reads. I'm not completely readless but I'd like to focus on a solid baseline strat first then talk about factors that may cause me to deviate if necessary.

Preflop for Hand 1 completely readless I'd fold vs someone who looked like a casual player, 4bet someone who looked even remotely aggro. You can call with this hand too but only against opponents who'll 3bet a reasonable linear range with some bluffs but also have the leak of playing very fit/fold postflop and letting you steal after they check back a bad flop for them (which obviously requires specific reads). Flop is standard and turn your opponent is setting up for a pot-sized river shove so unless you have a reason to call off everything on the river it's a pretty easy fold, yeah you get bluffed some which sucks but probably not often enough to make calling worthwhile except against the spazziest of opponents.

Hand 2 just fold pre, even in position the reverse implied odds of that hand are far too immense to make calling worthwhile with that SPR. As played fold turn for the same reasons as Hand 1

Hand 3 flop bet is okay although I think I prefer checking, but the turn bet pretty much has no fold equity so definitely just check back, as played pretty easy fold since despite the absolute strength of your hand being fairly high on the river the relative strength is abysmally low given their ranges and the unlikelihood of someone psycho-bluffing into two other people praying nobody has a flush

h1: gross, i guess i call turn and fold reasonable river sizing? at is near top of your range here so you can't fold turn
h2: fold turn? You can call better kx, live folks are more passive than they should be
h3: i can't fold a str8 for 3:1, it is plausible that this is some sort of blocking bet even though that is a lot of real life dollars being bet

disclaimer: i don't play 5/t because it's too hard, don't take my advice

Hand 1: Call/Call most of the time. Ppl tend to overbluff these spots because of range advantage and scare card. Fold on Q and J rivers as AQo makes up a decent part of his bluffs. Fold on K river as it tends to get underbluffed. On 7/8/9 rivers it would be close. Calling everything else. This is assuming he's 3betting with a wide range that includes suited connectors, suited 1 gappers, and suited wheel Ax and not 3betting enough Kx such as KQo/KJo.

Hand 2: Prob just fold now since he'll follow through on river most of the time. You'll have AK?/AQ-AJ w/ /Ax/A5s-A2s/55, 33.

Hand 3: This is a good spot to overbet turn to about $625. SB will c/r flopped sets most of the time and an overbet will get him and UTG+1 off of better draws. Either that or check and take the free card. Betting some normal amount seems like the worst option. As played I prob make a crying call to that sizing because you can beat some worse value hands such as T9s/99 or he could have busted FD repping the rivered straight.

H1, sigh fold
H2, sigh fold
H3, sigh fold

Think all streets played well on all hands.

h1. Call and x/jam river bricks if he bets again
h2. fold
h3. x turn.

dunno why people are saying fold ATss to a 3b. Pretty std call in todays game with agro dynamics. ESP HJvsBTN.

Standard baseline is H1: 4b or fold, H2: fold pre H3: check back flop


I don't care what the "standard" is. I care what the best play is. Especially FR, and live, dude they aren't 3betting enough and or they aren't playing badly enough post to make calling ATs the best play. Playing 3b pots OOP against aggro regulars, with mediocre holdings, basically readless... i mean come on dude... do i need to say more? It's a pretty clear 4b with the dynamic given.

I just have to laugh at guys who judge plays based on the current "standard" of what their player pool is doing. When literally 5 years from now they will all be broke and forgotten... not in small part due to all the "standard" plays.

Not sure who you think you are but please post less imo

Technically I want you to post less also but I find your posts so entertaining I let it slide.

It all falls on blind eyes anyhow I suppose.

My post probably should have made the hall of shame too

This makes a lot of sense. Dunno what I was thinking about defaulting to fold river. If board doesn't change we still have near the top of our range. I'm guessing these bluffs are a lot more common in 5/T.

Makes sense

Somehow I missed that the flop was 5 ways and we were called in 2 spots. Yeah, I'm not sure what the turn bet will fold. I like checking the most.

If you overbet turn what are you doing on rivers? Or are you just expecting to get the folds ~40% of the time right there? I guess draws would make up a pretty big chunk of the flop calling range, I never really thought about how much.

Well idk, lol i practically never play these days but i think the discussion is a better cool down than say playing a FPS or whatever. But even still- like these spots have to have drastic changes in order for you to alter from the default/ practically set in stone lines- which in this case is folding. And specifically for these spots- if calling here is the most optimal/default line then the game must be absolute ****/ you're not actually making any money imo.

it sort of falls back on results oriented thinking. there used to be loads of guys that were super aggressive with everything, i'm talking never folding, hyper aggro- and a couple of them (which is all the grinders remember lol) ran in the top 0.00000001% and crushed it for lots of money for a short period of time. Then the heater ended and they went busto in exactly the same fashion- fps spew all the way back down

Call 3b OOP w ATs is much much better than 4b or fold ainec.