Hello

I'm starting a thread to track my progress grinding up from 2PLO (6max).

I'm hoping to use this thread to force me to review hands and progress and hopefully get some advice along the way.

Im using a 50 Buyin strategy, once i have 50 Buyins i'll take a shot at the next stake with at least 2 buyins for that new stake.

Graph so far...


Stats over this period...

VPIP: 32.56
PFR: 23.19
3Bet: 6.99

Is this too tight for these stakes or does nitting up print more money?


I'll try and include some hands I'm not 100% sure of and would like some second opinions...


Hero (BTN): $2.00
SB: $1.15
BB: $5.33
UTG: $1.02
CO: $1.87

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 5s Ac Ad Qh
UTG raises to $0.07, CO calls $0.07, Hero raises to $0.31, SB calls $0.30, BB calls $0.29, UTG calls $0.24, CO calls $0.24

Flop : ($1.55, 5 players) 2d 7d 4s
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets $1.48, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.71 and is all-in, CO raises to $1.56 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.08

Turn : ($5.38, 3 players) 2c

River : ($5.38, 3 players) Ah

Hero shows 5s Ac Ad Qh (Full House, Aces full of Twos)

Main Pot [$3.68]: (Pre 53%, Flop 18%, Turn 6%)
Side Pot [$1.70]: (Pre 69%, Flop 51%, Turn 81%)

UTG shows 4c 4h Qs 8h (Full House, Fours full of Twos)

Main Pot [$3.68]: (Pre 21%, Flop 55%, Turn 94%)

CO shows 9d Js Qd 4d (Two Pair, Fours and Twos)

Main Pot [$3.68]: (Pre 25%, Flop 27%, Turn 0%)
Side Pot [$1.70]: (Pre 32%, Flop 49%, Turn 19%)

Hero wins $1.62
Hero wins $3.50

Any thought on these kinds of spots? Do we always stack off given SPR regardless of the fact we know villain never stack off/ donkbets with worse.

Well thats about it, please leave me feedback as im looking to engage with some other PLO players.

Thank you.

With an SPR of 1 usually any gutter on a board where there is no flush or straight possible is an auto stack off. Here we are five way, and usually you want to nut peddle in five way pots, but this is a pretty safe board, and SPR is quite low.

Could flat pre these aces are pretty marginal with no suit.

Thanks man, appreciate the advice.

So today went well regardless of running poorly.

I've made it to 5PLO and managed to win a little. I actually took the first shot to 5PLO a few days ago but got shot down, but with 2 buyins the variance is huge...

Here's today graph...


My sample size isnt great, if i could play 5000 hands a day i would but the site i play on doesn't facilitate any zoom variant (in that nobody plays it) so i play however many play i can sit in...somedays that only 4 regular tables but tbh i like 4.

Seems whenever i try to take shots i get shafted...


Hero (BB): $7.65
BTN: $12.47
SB: $4.78

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has A 8 8 9

fold, SB raises to $0.15, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.30, 2 players) T 8 2
SB bets $0.21, Hero raises to $0.92, SB raises to $3.05, Hero raises to $7.50 and is all-in, SB calls $1.58 and is all-in

Turn: ($9.56, 2 players) J

River: ($9.56, 2 players) 9

SB shows Q 8 2 T (Straight, Queen High)
(Pre 46%, Flop 15%, Turn 30%)
Hero shows A 8 8 9 (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 54%, Flop 85%, Turn 70%)
Hero wins $2.87
SB wins $9.09

Today went well but ran bad in a couple of spots. I played a mixture of PLO2 and PLO5 tables, as there wasn't much action at PLO5 for 4 tables.

Graph for today


Stats for the session
VPIP:23.15
PFR: 12.16
3BET: 2.80



Graph to date...



Could anyone tell me what are reasonable win rates these days at the micros?

Always nice to run well in big pots...

BTN: $7.39
SB: $4.95
BB: $4.98

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has A A 4 5

Hero raises to $0.12, BTN calls $0.12, SB raises to $0.53, fold, Hero raises to $1.76, BTN calls $1.64, SB calls $1.23

Flop: ($5.33, 3 players) 5 9 T
SB bets $3.19 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.11 and is all-in, BTN calls $3.19

Turn: ($11.82, 3 players) 3

River: ($11.82, 3 players) A

SB shows 9 4 T K (Two Pair, Tens and Nines)

Main Pot [$5.66]: (Pre 35%, Flop 29%, Turn 22%)
Side Pot#1 [$6.16]: (Pre 54%, Flop 41%, Turn 44%)

Hero shows A A 4 5 (Three of a Kind, Aces)

Main Pot [$5.66]: (Pre 37%, Flop 13%, Turn 22%)

BTN shows J A 7 8 (One Pair, Aces)

Main Pot [$5.66]: (Pre 29%, Flop 59%, Turn 56%)
Side Pot#1 [$6.16]: (Pre 46%, Flop 59%, Turn 56%)

SB wins $5.85
Hero wins $5.38



CO: $3.16
BTN: $2.00
SB: $2.53
Hero (BB): $4.05
UTG: $1.72
MP: $4.90
SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A A K K

fold, MP calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB raises to $0.12, Hero raises to $0.42, MP calls $0.40, fold, BTN calls $0.40, SB raises to $2.12, Hero raises to $4.05 and is all-in, fold, BTN calls $1.58 and is all-in, SB calls $0.41 and is all-in

Flop: ($7.50, 3 players) 3 7 2

Turn: ($7.50, 3 players) 2

River: ($7.50, 3 players) 7

SB shows 9 6 Q 9 (Two Pair, Nines and Sevens)

Main Pot [$6.44]: (Pre 23%, Flop 11%, Turn 6%)
Side Pot#1 [$1.06]: (Pre 26%, Flop 14%, Turn 6%)

Hero shows A A K K (Two Pair, Aces and Sevens)

Main Pot [$6.44]: (Pre 58%, Flop 61%, Turn 81%)
Side Pot#1 [$1.06]: (Pre 74%, Flop 86%, Turn 94%)

BTN shows Q 5 Q 6 (Two Pair, Queens and Sevens)

Main Pot [$6.44]: (Pre 19%, Flop 28%, Turn 14%)

Hero wins $1.52
Hero wins $1.01
Hero wins $6.12




And not so good to run bad in big pots...

SB: $2.63
BB: $2.00
Hero (UTG): $3.09
MP: $6.76
CO: $0.35
BTN: $3.01

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A A T 5

Hero raises to $0.07, MP calls $0.07, CO raises to $0.31, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.03, MP calls $0.96, CO calls $0.04 and is all-in

Flop: ($2.44, 3 players) 8 K 7
Hero bets $2.06 and is all-in, MP calls $2.06

Turn: ($6.56, 3 players) J

River: ($6.56, 3 players) 3

Hero shows A A T 5 (One Pair, Aces)

Main Pot [$1.08]: (Pre 43%, Flop 20%, Turn 0%)
Side Pot#1 [$5.48]: (Pre 59%, Flop 41%, Turn 11%)

MP shows 9 6 T 4 (Straight, Jack High)

Main Pot [$1.08]: (Pre 26%, Flop 28%, Turn 0%)
Side Pot#1 [$5.48]: (Pre 40%, Flop 59%, Turn 89%)

CO shows A 3 K 2 (Flush, Ace High)

Main Pot [$1.08]: (Pre 32%, Flop 52%, Turn 100%)

MP wins $5.21
CO wins $1.03

Can anybody recommend good PLO study material (Books, instructional videos, websites, study groups,etc.), I've never really studied PLO in any serious manner, just learned from playing, watching a lot of videos and listening to people talk about certain concepts or strategies.

Thanks.

What site are u playing? Nice results so far! GL!

Good luck Tiberius, how many hands are you aiming to put in a month and what stakes are you aiming for?

I play on PartyPoker, thanks

Thanks man

Good question, i'm currently averaging around 1500 hands a day just because there's only usually 4-6 tables i can play at once, sometimes maybe only 1!

I aim to play for 8hrs a day, so however many hands i can get in within that time frame.

As for goal ceiling, its open ended...i foresee me running into problems at PLO25 and PLO50, as i believe that these contain the most "grinders/nits/people who know what they're doing", as appose to the micros where people just throw money around and you just wait and pick it up.

Oh...hello Mr. Variance, I was wondering when you were going to rear your ugly head.



So yeah variance caught up with me today, at one point I was down $30 across a mixture of PLO2 and PLO5.

Fortunately I managed to pull it back from the brink and ended up a small winner! I was gonna actually quit when I was down the $30 having played under a 1000 hands....but I'm glad carried on.

Came very close to monkey tilting in today's session, but I'm getting better at managing my emotions...not great, but much better than I used to be.

I'm not gonna cry and moan about how bad today's session was, I knew PLO was a swingy game going into this challenge...still sucks though


Big pots


BTN: $5.63
SB: $2.70
Hero (BB): $9.03

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has 4 A A 3

BTN raises to $0.17, SB calls $0.15, Hero raises to $0.68, BTN calls $0.51, SB calls $0.51

Flop: ($2.04, 3 players) 4 4 3
SB checks, Hero bets $1.45, BTN calls $1.45, fold

Turn: ($4.94, 2 players) K
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.50 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.50

River: ($11.94, 2 players) 3

Hero shows 4 A A 3 (Full House, Fours full of Threes)
(Pre 71%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
BTN shows T A 5 T (Two Pair, Tens and Fours)
(Pre 29%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)

Hero wins $11.35



SB: $1.74
BB: $3.31
CO: $2.00
Hero (BTN): $4.71

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02, CO posts penalty blind $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.05) Hero has T A 7 A

CO checks, Hero raises to $0.09, SB raises to $0.31, BB calls $0.29, fold, Hero raises to $1.26, SB raises to $1.74 and is all-in, BB calls $1.43, Hero calls $0.48

Flop: ($5.24, 3 players) Q J Q
BB bets $1.57 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.57

Turn: ($8.38, 3 players) 9

River: ($8.38, 3 players) Q

BB shows T K 5 J (Straight, King High)

Main Pot [$5.24]: (Pre 20%, Flop 14%, Turn 72%)
Side Pot#1 [$3.14]: (Pre 27%, Flop 17%, Turn 83%)

Hero shows T A 7 A (Full House, Queens full of Aces)

Main Pot [$5.24]: (Pre 57%, Flop 75%, Turn 17%)
Side Pot#1 [$3.14]: (Pre 73%, Flop 83%, Turn 17%)

SB shows 9 2 J K (Three of a Kind, Queens)

Main Pot [$5.24]: (Pre 23%, Flop 11%, Turn 11%)

Hero wins $2.99
Hero wins $4.98


On the wrong side of variance....


BB: $5.48
UTG: $0.71
Hero (CO): $4.15
BTN: $2.59
SB: $4.82

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A A 2 4

fold, Hero raises to $0.07, BTN raises to $0.24, SB calls $0.23, fold, Hero raises to $0.98, BTN raises to $2.59 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls $1.61

Flop: ($5.44, 2 players) 5 8 A

Turn: ($5.44, 2 players) 7

River: ($5.44, 2 players) 7

Hero shows A A 2 4 (Full House, Aces full of Sevens)
(Pre 71%, Flop 99.8%, Turn 98%)
BTN shows K 7 K 7 (Four of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 29%, Flop 0.2%, Turn 3%)

BTN wins $5.17




BTN: $1.92
SB: $3.28
BB: $2.00
Hero (UTG): $1.96
MP: $1.00
CO: $1.39

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A A J 9

Hero raises to $0.05, fold, CO calls $0.05, fold, SB raises to $0.22, fold, Hero raises to $0.73, fold, SB calls $0.51

Flop: ($1.53, 2 players) 6 5 5
SB checks, Hero bets $1.23 and is all-in, SB calls $1.23

Turn: ($3.99, 2 players) 7

River: ($3.99, 2 players) 4

SB shows 8 8 7 7 (Full House, Sevens full of Fives)
(Pre 39%, Flop 32%, Turn 95%)
Hero shows A A J 9 (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 61%, Flop 68%, Turn 5%)

SB wins $3.80


So yeah, after a terrible morning I managed to recover and book a win...
I'm guessing these swings are going to be a regular occurrence, can anybody who's played a lot PLO tell me what i'm in for here variance wise as I play more and more hands?

GL on journey,

as for variance 10-20 buyin swings are super standard over a session and I have seen graphs from winning players running 50-100 buyins+ under ev with the most extreme being 200 buyins under ev at 200plo.

My advice is do not worry about the variance and just focus on playing and improving the best you can and results will come.

Remember to play tighter than most training material or streamers will tell you (ex/ jnandez youtube or mastermind) at micros where rake is higher because you need to crush your opponents + the rake to be a winning player. It's not good enough to just beat your opponents.


This is a good discord with lots of winning PLO players who are constantly discussing hands if you want to join and post some hands or at least study peoples hhs / talk poker, made by the guys who started the program PLO matrix-

https://discord.gg/YrhYaGS

Thanks for the advice

So I managed to play more than average amount hands today which was nice, still feel I'm running bad in important spots.

It's hard to win, when the RNG gives my opponents everything they need to beat me. I know it stupid that's just how i feel sometimes.

Graph today...


Graph to date...


I have a question about this hand here...


Hero (SB): $4.61
BB: $5.97
UTG: $2.32
CO: $8.45
BTN: $1.97

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K 9 A K

fold, CO raises to $0.07, fold, Hero calls $0.06, fold

Flop: ($0.16, 2 players) 6 9 2
Hero checks, CO bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16

Turn: ($0.48, 2 players) K
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($0.48, 2 players) J
Hero checks, CO bets $0.15, fold

CO wins $0.61

Reviewing this hand afterwards, I think optimal line is lead out on turn and fold some rivers? I think as played, I've allowed him to keep some bluffs in his river range here...although at these stakes sometimes i think I'm leveling myself into mistakes. But that being said, at these stakes ops are very honest with their actions. Thoughts?

Mandatory 3bet preflop, if you are not 3betting this you have literally only AAxx's in your range. Missing tons of value + playing a higher SPR (stack to pot ratio) scenario postflop out of position. You want to lower the SPR by getting in as much money pre with your strong hands out of position so your position disadvantage is non existant (can pot/shove flops and push value more often).

As played pot lead turn , in this scenario I guess you can fold the river because you have no hearts in your hand but with that small of sizing from him I likely call cause people at micros are scared to bluff with big sizings typically.

Thanks for the advice man, I have a certain dynamic with this villain and that's the reason i didn't 3Bet in that hand...but completely agree with you, thanks

So today went well, I tried to defend more SB and BB spots as my red line is in heavy decline. I dont know if this is best strategy at these stakes as most villians are cold calling 3bets and raising extremly lightly.

I'm playing mostly PLO5 now, but i have to supplement with PLO2 to get at least 4-6 tables sometimes.

Today's graph...


Graph to date...

Today's Graph


Today's Stats


Today's PLO5 bad, lost all my allins with AAxx (there were 12), couldn't make a draw and couldnt hold. I havent had a session of run bad like this in a long time.


Hands like these sum it all up....


BB: $11.63
UTG: $10.00
MP: $5.82
Hero (CO): $7.48
BTN: $45.85
SB: $5.93

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has A 5 Q A

fold, MP raises to $0.10, Hero raises to $0.45, BTN raises to $1.20, SB calls $1.15, fold, MP calls $1.10, Hero raises to $6.10, fold, fold, MP calls $4.62 and is all-in

Flop: ($14.14, 2 players) 5 2 T

Turn: ($14.14, 2 players) 7

River: ($14.14, 2 players) 7

Hero shows A 5 Q A (Two Pair, Aces and Sevens)
(Pre 60%, Flop 66%, Turn 5%)
MP shows T 7 9 7 (Four of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 40%, Flop 34%, Turn 95%)
Hero wins $0.28
MP wins $13.44



CO: $9.52
BTN: $5.91
SB: $12.09
BB: $6.81
Hero (UTG): $5.61

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has T K A A

Hero raises to $0.12, fold, BTN calls $0.12, SB raises to $0.53, fold, Hero raises to $1.76, BTN calls $1.64, SB raises to $7.09, Hero calls $3.85 and is all-in, BTN calls $4.15 and is all-in

Flop: ($17.48, 3 players) 4 J 6

Turn: ($17.48, 3 players) J

River: ($17.48, 3 players) 3

SB shows 5 2 3 8 (Straight, Six High)

Main Pot [$16.88]: (Pre 34%, Flop 31%, Turn 0%)
Side Pot#1 [$0.60]: (Pre 38%, Flop 31%, Turn 0%)

Hero shows T K A A (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks)

Main Pot [$16.88]: (Pre 39%, Flop 23%, Turn 8%)

BTN shows Q A 5 Q (Flush, Ace High)

Main Pot [$16.88]: (Pre 27%, Flop 46%, Turn 92%)
Side Pot#1 [$0.60]: (Pre 63%, Flop 69%, Turn 100%)

SB wins $1.18
BTN wins $0.57
BTN wins $16.04



CO: $7.26
BTN: $5.30
SB: $6.86
BB: $5.16
UTG: $5.00
Hero (MP): $9.89

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has Q 4 A A

UTG raises to $0.17, Hero raises to $0.58, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.53, UTG calls $0.41

Flop: ($1.76, 3 players) T 6 7
BB checks, UTG bets $1.68, Hero raises to $6.72, fold, UTG calls $2.74 and is all-in

Turn: ($10.60, 2 players) Q

River: ($10.60, 2 players) 2

Hero shows Q 4 A A (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 57%, Flop 49%, Turn 43%)
UTG shows 3 9 7 6 (Two Pair, Sevens and Sixes)
(Pre 43%, Flop 51%, Turn 58%)
Hero wins $2.30
UTG wins $10.07

Going to go back to PLO2 exclusively tomorrow...just to regain my confidence, before playing anymore PLO5.

Today's graph...


Lost allins
Lost Flips
Lost everything pretty much...



Hero (BTN): $3.87
SB: $2.00
BB: $2.20
UTG: $6.40
CO: $2.88

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q J J A

fold, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.09, fold, BB calls $0.07, CO calls $0.07

Flop: ($0.28, 3 players) 3 9 J
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $0.20, fold, CO calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.68, 2 players) 3
CO checks, Hero bets $0.65, CO raises to $2.59 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.94

River: ($5.86, 2 players) 4

Hero shows Q J J A (Full House, Jacks full of Threes)
(Pre 64%, Flop 64%, Turn 3%)
CO shows 8 3 3 2 (Four of a Kind, Threes)
(Pre 36%, Flop 36%, Turn 98%)
CO wins $5.57



BTN: $2.42
SB: $3.37
BB: $8.29
Hero (UTG): $2.57
CO: $3.59

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A Q J J

Hero raises to $0.04, CO raises to $0.10, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.23, 2 players) 4 8 J
Hero checks, CO bets $0.14, Hero raises to $0.39, CO raises to $1.39, Hero raises to $2.47 and is all-in, CO calls $1.08

Turn: ($5.17, 2 players) 9

River: ($5.17, 2 players) 6

CO shows T K Q 4 (Straight, Queen High)
(Pre 36%, Flop 13%, Turn 65%)
Hero shows A Q J J (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 64%, Flop 87%, Turn 35%)
CO wins $4.92



I've got nothing more to say.

So I needed a change of scenary, so I've been playing on UNIBET for the last 2 days.

I've always considered the lower stakes PLO games on there to be very soft and I'm glad to report that's still the case.

The lowest stake for PLO is PLO4, the games very swingy and I've needed to make big adjustments.

Still running bad, i still haven't won an all-in with aces yet, every nut flush turn i make pairs the board on the river. Fun players staking off with literally any 4 cards and making the nuts every time, whinge whinge whinge.....

I hope this ends soon.

I'm ending this thread as the downswing I'm on doesn't seem like its gonna end....

I lost every hand for the last 2 days along with half my roll, there's nothing i can do so there's no point playing anymore.

Thanks to those who gave advice.

Peace.