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03-12-2021 , 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
7727 hands, -5.9 usd net won, -1.5 bb/100, -5.7 EV bb/100

I lost nine buy-ins in just two hours. I don't know whether my bad play or bad luck was the main reason. The positive side is I didn't tilt. Back in the day in my great anger I used to just go all-in preflop with any two cards. Clearly I am not ready for pro grinding yet. I have to take breaks after losses even if I don't feel any tilt. So now the rule is I will sit out if I lose 80 bb in one hand and review that. In my great optimism I hope I can still make 1 dollar an hour. The goal to tickle NL 10 has jumped to one month.

I watched some high stakes omaha play on twitch and that made me try it myself. https://www.twitch.tv/suhepx

115 hands, 6.54 usd net won, 113.7 bb/100, 113.7 EV bb/100

I am guessing players open 3.5 bb because in omaha the hand strengths are very close to each other, so you have to use some force to kick people out. I have noticed in texas if you bet small on the flop with a good hand, then solvers like to bet bigger on the turn or river, sometimes with an overbet. This isn't possible in omaha, so I am assuming you have to bet more balanced on every street. I still did see suhepx often betting half pot and 1/3 pot on the flop, probably for the same reasons as in Texas. He who has the range advantage can do whatever he wants. And again I am assuming if you open from utg and BB calls, flop comes AKx, utg will have a lot more AA and KK than BB.



Half pot on the flop is more common than my 20%. More nuts, more power. On the turn with the blocker to a flush draw, betting big becomes more likely. With this exact KQ combo overbetting 111% is slightly more likely than my choice of half pot. I don't understand why. Wizard never bets the river with KQ. KJ is betting around half the time and QJ more than that. Having a spade in most cases decreases the chance of bluffing. I guess we just don't have any value hands to bluff KQ too.





The flop looked so connected that I checked. It's all an illusion. There's no straight. Half potting is the favorite choice. If KK doesn't have a club, then you can even overbet.





I am sometimes confused as to when with a range advantage I should bet small and when bigger on the flop. I think it depends a lot what your hand is. The stronger it is the more you can bet. If it's the absolute nuts, then you can slowplay and bet small to defend your weaker range. AA mostly goes with half potting. It's checking 19% of the time. TT-KK are checking less, around 10% of the time. It makes sense as they are scared of overcards. On the turn I should overbet 111%. Clearly the solver wants to correct the mistake I made on the flop. Something really strange happens with flush draw blockers. AA is checking less with a heart. KK is checking more with a heart. QQ isn't checking at all with a heart. JJ is checking more with a heart. Clearly 300 iq stuff. River can't be avoided.





On the flop my hand should be betting 1/4 pot twice as likely than 73% pot. I wonder if in position we are more likely to bet small. Reraising AK is pretty terrible even though solver does it 6.5% of the time. One shouldn't look at rare frequency plays to justify mistakes. If I had used an rng tool and based on that reraised, my move would be ok. I have a very vague recollection of doing lots of reraising on the flop in my nl 200 days. Maybe I actually I still have some bugs in my brain that have been just laying dormant waiting for the right time to strike. When the villain raises my bet, the equity completely flips. AK is nothing special anymore. Also all my weaker kickers in my range need protection. What's interesting is that no pair is folding to his raise. My play on the turn is again horrible. 1/3 pot is much better to see what's up. If he then went all-in, AKdd would be calling most of the time.





Gtowizard doesn't have gto for omaha, so I'm on my own here. Probably preflop is too loose. It's too disconnected and 33 set might just lead me to losing money. I am okay with my turn and river play. I am blocking a straight, even though it's probably quite rare for co to have 34.
Preflop is absolutely horrific in the PLO hand
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03-12-2021 , 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
I am not sure if I believe that. Following 50% gto seems to me like winning a lot of money. What kind of mistakes could he be making?
Following a reasonable strategy is very likely to make money, especially against non-reasonable opposition. What I mean is that the whole point of the GTO-strategy is in the entirety of it. Thus, in my opinion, taking some branches here, some branches there and ignoring some branches is not a good idea. Still, I guess you need to start from somewhere if you want to master it.

Yep pre-flop play in that PLO-hand is... You should play very tight there against HJ open, maybe something like fold 85%. Given high rake maybe call 5% 3-bet 5% fold 90%. You have a top 50% hand or something so that's a clear fold pre. Post probably works pretty well at least in micro stakes but note that theoretically neither player has barely any 34-combos so your blockers aren't that valuable. Still, I think it's a good bluff as I presume many players aren't willing to call you down with one pair hands.
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03-12-2021 , 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
Following a reasonable strategy is very likely to make money, especially against non-reasonable opposition. What I mean is that the whole point of the GTO-strategy is in the entirety of it. Thus, in my opinion, taking some branches here, some branches there and ignoring some branches is not a good idea. Still, I guess you need to start from somewhere if you want to master it.

Yep pre-flop play in that PLO-hand is... You should play very tight there against HJ open, maybe something like fold 85%. Given high rake maybe call 5% 3-bet 5% fold 90%. You have a top 50% hand or something so that's a clear fold pre. Post probably works pretty well at least in micro stakes but note that theoretically neither player has barely any 34-combos so your blockers aren't that valuable. Still, I think it's a good bluff as I presume many players aren't willing to call you down with one pair hands.
I think a human will take stuff out of gto that makes some sense and then construct a whole game tree based on it. You might be right if a bot randomly chose 50% of the options.

I went to an omaha hand calculator and put AAKQ double suit vs J733 double suit. J733 has 36.57%. Then I compared the result to J765 double suit. Probability jumped to 42.71%. An increase of 6.14 percentage points. Then I did the same round to AKQJ double suit. J733 scores 44.76%. J765 gets 43.95%. A decrease of 0.81 percentage points. In texas it's completely fine to go for set hunting no matter how low. Clearly in omaha straight and flush hunting is the name of the game.
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03-12-2021 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
I think a human will take stuff out of gto that makes some sense and then construct a whole game tree based on it. You might be right if a bot randomly chose 50% of the options.
Yes, I think it's fine to take that route. So you want to take some basic theory from GTO and simplify it to form a big picture that you understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
I went to an omaha hand calculator and put AAKQ double suit vs J733 double suit. J733 has 36.57%. Then I compared the result to J765 double suit. Probability jumped to 42.71%. An increase of 6.14 percentage points. Then I did the same round to AKQJ double suit. J733 scores 44.76%. J765 gets 43.95%. A decrease of 0.81 percentage points. In texas it's completely fine to go for set hunting no matter how low. Clearly in omaha straight and flush hunting is the name of the game.
Yes. Small sets and flushes are not strong hands, especially multiway. In high SPR multiway pots you are looking for nut flushes, nut straights, top sets, top two with backup and so on.
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03-13-2021 , 05:06 AM
NL 5, 9256 hands, 2.06 usd net won, 0.4 bb/100, -2 EV bb/100
PLO 5, 449 hands, 0.73 usd net won, 3.3 bb/100, -16.8 EV bb/100

I clicked ev tab in gtowizard and saw -ev plays as calls and raises. Oops maybe I should have done that before. It seems this is due to the error margin. I have to be more careful with my analysis. But I hate actually figuring things out on my own. Can't someone just hold my hand?

I learned that in plo sb often has a range advantage in broadway flops and should do some donk betting.



I don't know why I randomly bluffed with this hand. It's better to first play tag and then slowly corporate bluffs in your game.

Last edited by wannabe2700; 03-13-2021 at 05:21 AM.
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03-13-2021 , 05:17 AM
You have no cards that block the strong hands in his range and you block the most likely weak hand on the river (flush draws)
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03-13-2021 , 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
Yes. Small sets and flushes are not strong hands, especially multiway. In high SPR multiway pots you are looking for nut flushes, nut straights, top sets, top two with backup and so on.
Can you explain jnandez calling 4455r from sb? Is it a better hand than 44JTr?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlTUEVB-7G0&t=1340s
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03-13-2021 , 05:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolotoure2.0
You have no cards that block the strong hands in his range and you block the most likely weak hand on the river (flush draws)
I am guessing sb shouldn't have a straight here. Is a 5 or a 3 a good blocker? Maybe a K also would block some AK hands.
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03-13-2021 , 08:42 AM
I think the PLO-hand is actually wp. SB should have close to zero 24 so the straight is kinda meaningless. Yes it's bad to block the fd but you have zero sd-value on a board where you have all the AA and he has only some. K is also a good river, at least in practice, as most of his bluff catchers go down in absolute value (=he no longer has so many top2 for example).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
Can you explain jnandez calling 4455r from sb? Is it a better hand than 44JTr?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlTUEVB-7G0&t=1340s
Yes, because it makes a set doubly as often and straights that are more disguised and not as dominated as the straights you make with JT against tight ranges.

That being said I don't think it's a fantastic spot 4-way with SPR 8,5 against an UTG opener. I'd say folding is totally fine against decent opponents.
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03-14-2021 , 06:20 AM
NL 5, 10396 hands, -2.74 usd net won, -0.56 bb/100, -3.51 EV bb/100

I haven't been very productive my whole life, so I thought why not at least start in my 30s. I started doing pomodoros. The point is to decrease the middle part of work. When you start, you feel fresh, and when you're about to end your eyes gain more focus. Usually one period is 25 minutes, but I went with my old school schedule of 45 minutes. Depending how annoying the work is, I will rest for 5-15 minutes. A bit of walking, anything but sitting. I used to weigh 30 kg less The aim is to do 10 periods a day. A betting site would say the chances of this happening is 10%.

I downloaded pokersnowie after seeing an NL 100 zoom player review his session on twitch with it. His point was that going over the hands that had been marked as mistakes lets him rethink critical spots and grow as a player even if in reality his initial choice was correct. I went over some of my hands, and the result IMO was 50/50 if they really were mistakes. I also some pro complaining how easy it was to beat snowie hu. Just 3-bet all the time and it can't deal with it. I think I will pass paying 229.95 dollars annually.

I learned that with tight ranges you want to do more c-raising with hands that block his good hands than with backdoor flush draws. CO vs BTN compared to SB vs BB on T63r. CO c-raises K3s around 40%, SB c-raises that around 20%, CO c-raises 76s around 35%, SB c-raises that around 13%.





This is an old hand. Snowie says fold flop and turn! Folding flop actually makes sense. I might be drawing to a worse flush. UTG has so many Axs hands. BB is still left to act and the flop hits his range really well. I can't deal with a reraise. But no way in hell will I fold turn.




Recommended is to once again bet little most of the time. AA is betting 1/4 pot 60% of the time and checking 40% to protect the checking range. TT is betting 1/4 pot 68% of the time, checking 12% and betting 3/4 pot 20%. On the turn 8x hands are ruling the situation, so I should either check or bet small with my one pair hands. AA is checking 90%. Safest is to just call his river. Donks rarely are bluffs no matter the sizing.




On the flop wizard is checking the whole range 42%, but A85r gets checked 76%. BTN has a lot more Ax hands than Kx. Betting is quite evenly split between 60% pot and 20% pot. After checking I should just fold AJ to his bet. Solver really likes to go after those backdoor flushes, so Axs calls much more often. On the turn utg's range should be so weak that c-raising never really happens from him.
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03-14-2021 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
I think the PLO-hand is actually wp. SB should have close to zero 24 so the straight is kinda meaningless. Yes it's bad to block the fd but you have zero sd-value on a board where you have all the AA and he has only some. K is also a good river, at least in practice, as most of his bluff catchers go down in absolute value (=he no longer has so many top2 for example).


Yes, because it makes a set doubly as often and straights that are more disguised and not as dominated as the straights you make with JT against tight ranges.

That being said I don't think it's a fantastic spot 4-way with SPR 8,5 against an UTG opener. I'd say folding is totally fine against decent opponents.
Then my play was like Hellmuth's, pasty white magic. How do you control bluffing too much in omaha? There are so many hand combinations. If I leave it for my brain to decide, it either goes ape or butt scratching. It needs more guidelines then just villain shouldn't have the nuts, thus all-in.

I actually missed that 4455 can also get a straight.
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03-14-2021 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
How do you control bluffing too much in omaha? There are so many hand combinations.
In general, when you have way more nuts than villain has (AA on that board can be treated as almost the nuts) you have the rights to bluff a lot. I guess it's easy to go overboard in these spots. Just don't barrel turn with zero equity and consider blockers/unblockers on the river. I just think the runout is so perfect for your range in that hand that I'd barrel even with your hand. That being said the field probably overfolds flop and overcalls river so no shame in giving up rivers.
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03-15-2021 , 06:43 AM
NL5, 11731 hands, 11.90 usd net won, 2 bb/100, -3.7 EV bb/100

Somehow managed to do my 10 pomodoros yesterday. Nice.



I am so used to seeing solver calling pairs lightly that I even considered calling the river. It seems you can't generalize too much. Every spot deserves its own thought process. TT without diamond can already consider folding on the flop. JJ would call flop but fold turn. I have been getting the feeling people 3-bet and 4-bet a lot less than what they should. That makes my turn call even worse.




In wizard QJs is calling pre 30%, but his 3-bet is so small that I am sure QJs is always calling. It seems turn flushes usually help the flop caller, so I could consider donking small. I should either check river or once again bet small.
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03-15-2021 , 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
In general, when you have way more nuts than villain has (AA on that board can be treated as almost the nuts) you have the rights to bluff a lot. I guess it's easy to go overboard in these spots. Just don't barrel turn with zero equity and consider blockers/unblockers on the river. I just think the runout is so perfect for your range in that hand that I'd barrel even with your hand. That being said the field probably overfolds flop and overcalls river so no shame in giving up rivers.
Is a 5 or a 3 in my hand a better bluffing hand, as it blocks sets?
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03-15-2021 , 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
Is a 5 or a 3 in my hand a better bluffing hand, as it blocks sets?
Yes, though you shouldn't have many of those and he shouldn't have many low sets after calling from SB.

Last edited by amok; 03-15-2021 at 08:50 AM.
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03-16-2021 , 04:35 AM
NL 5, 13254 hands, 17.39 usd net won, 2.6 bb/100, -2.6 EV bb/100



It's interesting wizard likes to overpot raise small bets and just 50% raise 70% bets. 953 flop sees a lot less overpot raising. I guess it's just because BB has a lot of Kxs hands and AA is the only overpair. Q is a good turn for him, so overbetting becomes less popular. I should check river as he's probably checking back a weak K.




It seems I should call river because I am blocking a flush, but I do wonder if people really bluff here often enough. KK with the flush blockers is folding 3/4 of the time, as it blocks KT bluff. Clearly quite a delicate spot.




I am assuming this hand isn't too loose preflop.
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03-16-2021 , 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
I am assuming this hand isn't too loose preflop.
I think it is. I'd open BTN, it's ds after all, but still at the bottom of the opening range. It's just that there aren't a lot of good flops for that hand. The actual flop is one of them though.
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03-16-2021 , 09:05 AM
your equity against a 50% range is 40,5%. Roughly the same against a tighter range.
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03-17-2021 , 08:50 AM
NL 5, 15521 hands, 39.57 usd net won, 5.1 bb/100, -1.4 EV bb/100
PLO 5, 671 hands, 29.59 usd net won, 88.2 bb/100, 5.4 EV bb/100

I feel like I should call a lot less. People just don't have enough bluffs in many spots, me included. Especially big bets and raises are mostly value heavy. 3-bet and 4-bet ranges also seem so tight. I can't run any sims, so I have to use equilab and do some guessing. I found out TT is the best pair against AK, excluding AA and KK. It probably has to with blocking his straights and still getting some upper straights like J987.

I have started using RNG. I am trying to guess what gto would like to do in my spot and then I look at the number I get and follow that choice. Obviously I am way off from true balanced play when I can't even remember my preflop ranges. It's easy to fall into grouping lots of hands together, even though they often have their own little quirks. The main problem is how little time there's to act in poker. But I hope I will get used to this and a year later be a gto mini beast.



Wizard says AJo folds 56%, but I don't think population in BB 3bets enough to make this call. BB should mostly bet 1/5 pot or check flop. Flushes just dominate the results too much to bet big. I probably should just fold turn. Like I said people just don't bluff often enough. It actually might be a hindrance to have Ac as that hand might be the most likely part of his bluff range.




Preflop is a fold, so I can't see what wizard says about postflop. I am guessing gto would call.



Interestingly BTN should bet flop 99.8%. Probably I should just fold pre and river.




Maybe I should just call his 4-bet, as I have only 36.55% against his AA hand. Or maybe even fold?
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03-17-2021 , 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
I think it is. I'd open BTN, it's ds after all, but still at the bottom of the opening range. It's just that there aren't a lot of good flops for that hand. The actual flop is one of them though.
I keep forgetting everyone opens 3.5x. That must be the reason the ranges seem to be about the same as in texas.
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03-17-2021 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
I feel like I should call a lot less. People just don't have enough bluffs in many spots, me included
Oh absolutely. People bluff way less than they should, especially in the micros.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
Maybe I should just call his 4-bet, as I have only 36.55% against his AA hand. Or maybe even fold?
I think 3-betting is good, though flatting isn't bad either. I'd call the 4-bet and assume villain has aces nearly every time. If you hit the flop (pair, fd, or a wrap) you aren't folding. Lead some boards where he might incorrectly fold and check the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
I keep forgetting everyone opens 3.5x. That must be the reason the ranges seem to be about the same as in texas.
I think it's also that dominations are more lasting with four cards. Like 2345ds will be dominated by 9876ds on many boards, while it's not exactly the same with 98s vs 54s. In PLO there are a lot more flush over flushes, straight over straights, two pair over two pairs and so on. Playing weak hands lands you more often in spots where you are dominated.

Regarding the rake, I think opening something like 15% UTG is good, so you need to play really tight in PLO, too.

Last edited by amok; 03-17-2021 at 10:37 AM.
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03-18-2021 , 06:21 AM
NL 10, 99 hands, 10.56 usd net won, 106.7 bb/100, 106.7 EV bb/100
PLO 5, 751 hands, 41.84 usd net won, 111.4 bb/100, 13 EV bb/100

I played very little yesterday, but I got lucky in PLO and got my bankroll to 150 dollars. Took a shot at NL 10 and doubled up. The plan for today is to play two tables of NL 10 with no rebuy.

I took a look at a variance calculator. After 100k hands with a winrate of 5 bb/100, you can still lose money. 95% confidence level, from -1.32 bb/100 to 11.32 bb/100. It's crazy.

I found another helpful youtuber for omaha https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRY...8jcRj3g/videos
The audio is low and his accent is strong, so he won't ever be popular, but I never cared about that. As long as I can learn something it's all good.



My beginner brain took like 30 seconds to realize I flopped a monster. 23 outs to improve to a straight or a flush I think. But I can still be dominated, as I only have 5 outs to the nuts. My hand has a pair of queens, so that helps in the case of drawing to worse flushes and straights.
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03-18-2021 , 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amok
Regarding the rake, I think opening something like 15% UTG is good, so you need to play really tight in PLO, too.
Is it top 15% vs 6 players or 1 player? I found out AA32ds is best in a 10 player all-in. Not a hand you first think of. It would be nice to find the worst hands you open with to easily visualize things. I found this old guideline that I guess works good enough for me in the micros https://www.pokervip.com/strategy-ar...ing-hand-chart
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03-18-2021 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
Is it top 15% vs 6 players or 1 player? I found out AA32ds is best in a 10 player all-in. Not a hand you first think of. It would be nice to find the worst hands you open with to easily visualize things. I found this old guideline that I guess works good enough for me in the micros https://www.pokervip.com/strategy-ar...ing-hand-chart
I don't think it's directly the top 15% hot'n'cold hands vs 6 players. Your link has a pretty good baseline upon first glance. Pretty sure AA23ds is not the best hand in 10 players all-in (I think it's likely AAJTds or something similar). AA23ds is the best hand in hi/lo though.
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03-18-2021 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe2700
My beginner brain took like 30 seconds to realize I flopped a monster.
This made me lol a bit. Yes it's very important to have the pair there, guaranteeing that you are not crushed by a dominating draw.
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