I don't think his "future hourly calc" is ridiculous. I think it was clear that he was pulling made up numbers based on his own quick estimate of how he expects things MAY go over the next few years. I think it was just an exercise to show with some vague math that you need to be careful to not just get lost in the present. There are so many moving parts with the quality of the poker economy we will never be able to actually know for sure what and when things are going to happen. Yes we def could get a nice boost of fish if positive legislation occurs on a wide enough scale and hourlies could go back up for awhile. But I think the point is to be conservative in our estimates and put some thought of how we should approach today if we expect our hourlies to shrink a bit over time. It can be a dangerous thing to be in a market that is generally in a decline to a certain extent and make future plans based on always maintaining a $100 hourly or whatever your hourly is today. Not to mention our hourly over the past year likely isn't even what our actual ev hourly is, especially in live poker. When I personally run numbers on what I think my expectation is I use the lower end of what I think my likely ev range is. So even though say in certain games I have a track record of 10bb/100 over a lot of hands, I'll still make estimates based on having a 7bb/100 winrate. That way when things inevitably occur that lower my winrate at some point I know that the things I want to achieve financially are still achievable, and if I just maintain 10bb/100 forever then great, that's gravy and just extra money that I can save for the future.

I just threw some quick numbers into one of those hr block tax estimators. I assume it's decently accurate, but I didn't factor in any of the normal things that would lower it like business expense deductions etc. Doing it based off 135k income it popped out ~34k and that doesn't include state. This is for a single person though. If married and spouse has no additional income, dependents, subtracting biz deductions, HSA, etc I could def see it coming down to the 25k area.

I have not set up a SEP, which is probably stupid tbh but that's one thing I just have not been on top of. We have just thrown money in our HSA/wife's 401k, and in Roth IRA's. The SEP would prob be beneficial though since you have more control over what you want to invest it in vs the 401k only having certain options. Does your wife work? Feel like a SEP is pretty important if you're saving a lot and have no other tax advantaged places to put it. I also have thrown money into a normal taxable brokerage account as well.

Oh yeah 150% agree with this. Forgot about that part of it in my post. This is especially evident in live poker obv. You should absolutely be factoring the wasted travel time and costs of things like gas into your hourly. Pretty sure most just ignore these things but they are obv a super important part of the picture. Even at 2/5 these things are gonna cut your hourly a lot which isn't fun to think about but is super important to recognize.

As mentioned in response to the guy above I always calculate things based on the bottom end of what I think I'll reasonably be able to continue achieving for awhile. However even doing that I still don't put a ton of stock into it. I think things can change too fast, even just over the last year there were multiple times where I was forced to hope between different apps/different game types/etc and I'm sure my ev hourly was fluctuating significantly depending on what the current landscape was. In my planning for the future I just always tried to never get carried away with spending money and tried to grow my net worth and keep expenses reasonable. If poker died as an available source of income tmrw and I had to go take some crappy desk job starting out at 40k/yr or something it would suck but my quality of life financially wouldn't really be altered. I feel like worrying about how sustainable your expenses are is probably more important than worrying about your hourly too much. DGAF is a great example of this in that he appears to have had a strong hourly in poker over the years but was just the ultimate degen in life and eventually was just crushed by life expenses.

So yeah tl;dr even if you're making a really nice hourly make sure you're saving a bunch of it and not just getting nicer things. Spend money in the ways it makes you happiest and your life easier. And keep your expenses sustainable for the times when you may not have access to the same hourly in the future. And if you really wanna make future hourly estimates just try and do it on the conservative/pessimistic end of the numbers like you did, not based on the optimistic end of the numbers.

Hey Kizzah, thanks for sharing your opinions in detail. I'm glad my post got you thinking/feeling enough to take the time to write all that!

Try to keep in mind, this isn't a black or white topic - not even close. As is the case when trying to shine a light of truth/accuracy on anything, there's plenty of nuance involved. On to your points:

1) Just because most people go by their pre-tax numbers, doesn't mean it's the most accurate way to explain how much you make. If you really think about it, it's obvious. Pre tax is falsely claiming money that belongs to the government as yours. It's artificially inflating your income. Just because this is the norm doesn't mean we have to do it too, right? Using pre-tax numbers makes us feel like we make more than we do in reality. This can cause numerous problems.

*note that this post applies to any job, I'm not just targeting how poker players use these numbers incorrectly.

2) Fair enough. My point was really to highlight that whatever we save for retirement should be mentally written off since we won't see it for so long. An interesting point to ponder: we don't include social security as part of our income, right? That's how we should be thinking of our retirement accounts. I believe this is a much more intelligent way of looking at things.

3) Glad we agree here, would be hard not to lol.

4) I think very few people accurately include just how much extra time they put into their work throughout the year. Unless you are very aware of it, it's easy to underestimate. It's a good way to realize the value of uour time.

You think the rest of my post is ridiculous, I disagree. The person who follows my way of of looking at one's "real hourly" will likely be much better off financially. He/she will likely spend less, invest more, and be mentally prepared to make better decisions pertaining to money and how they spend their time.

A few questions for you:

Do you play poker for a living? If so, how do you model out your future expected earnings? Why is being conservative and safe a "horrific idea" exactly?

The idea behind the post was to highlight the fact that we aren't taking home nearly as much money as we think, especially on a per hour basis. It's so easy to be on financial and life auto pilot, or to just focus on relatively minuscule improvements/tweaks in poker strategy, and miss the bigger picture. Which is basically if look at the numbers a little deeper it's clear we need to be making more money, spending less, and investing more than it appears on the surface. This is true for most people with normal careers, but even more so for poker players. I've realized the great paradox of poker is you have to be extremely responsible/conservative with your money (like more so than any other profession), while detaching yourself from it completely at the table. That's such a mind **** to be able to create that separation in your mind. If you can hold those to ends of the spectrum together at the same time, you maximize your overall financial success.

Yeah you should definitely open a SEP IRA if your'e wife is already maxing out her 401K. Especially if you have a good year and find yourself owing more than usual and want to bring down your tax bill. And yes, you have all the options compared to some 401k plans. I know of about 10 professional poker players and not a single one has a SEP - pretty tragic imo. You on the other hand are in a great spot regardless. My wife no long works full time anymore. When that happened I switched to a high deductible and now have an HSA. They are great, especially when used as just another retirement vehicle. Which reminds me, I need to fully fund it in the next few days for 2019.

Yup totally agree with everything you wrote. Unfortunately I think it's unlikely that most poker players (or people in general) change their ways. I feel like finances is one of those things where the general big picture answer is pretty obvious (spend less, save more) and the people who care about the big picture tend to be self motivated to seek out information to learn how to maximize their future. Although I think this would be significantly improved if basic personal finance skills were taught in schools.

HSA is a dreammm. Everyone will have health expenses at some point and so it's just super nice to know that money is saved 100% tax free. Hopefully your health insurance premium isn't too insane. Having health insurance through my wifes employer has saved me a lot of money the last couple years vs when I had to buy my own plan.

It's so insane personal finance isn't taught in high school. I can't think of one thing that is more obvious and that would have more of a direct impact on kids futures and lives in our education system.

I don't fully agree with your first few sentences. I know for myself I was just kinda on auto pilot wrt to personal finances for a long time. I just thought about increasing how much I make over time, making enough where I didn't have to stress about money, and maybe putting some extra savings into stock market. Since I was making more than I was spending, and not in credit card debt, I thought I was good. But once I became aware of things like financial independence, retiring early, savings rates, etc. it was a huge awakening.

I think if people were just made aware of the numbers behind different savings rates and what it really means as far as how many more years they will have to work -- that alone would spark many people to change. I know that when I found out if I saved and invested 10% of my take home income (no matter how much that income was) I still wouldn't be able to retire for another 51 years, that hit me pretty hard and sparked a real change in my mindset.

Pro tip for HSA: save all medical receipts and pay with normal cash/credit cards for as long as you can. This way the money in your HSA account isn't taken out and it can grow tax free. This article explains it all.....https://www.madfientist.com/ultimate...ement-account/

Mindset Monday #1 -- Challenging the stories we tell ourselves

We all bull **** ourselves, I know I do plenty. I've got a mantra for poker of quality over quantity. I believe it's very important and has been a key part of my lasting success in this game over my 12+ yr career. But I can be lazy, weak-minded, and short-sighted with the best of them. I mean, just look at the first goal listed on my quarterly goals post here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...7&postcount=42. Yet here we are on Jan 21st and I've played a total of 64 hours.

My brain comes up with all kinds of excuses and reasons (plenty of which aren't real/true) to play less. Most of it is just unconscious and repetitive thought patterns from the past. But I'm at a different point in life now - I've got a family to provide for and I've got concrete financial goals that are lofty (financially free by 50 ftw!) but motivating/worth it.

I'm not gonna hate on myself/waste any energy dwelling on my imperfections (years ago I would have). I'm just going to adopt a new mindset with a new mantra. Awareness of my present thoughts, while focusing on the long term. **** motivation. **** will power. **** the idea of hard work. With my long term goals in mind, I'll just be aware of my current thoughts/actions, which should lead to new micro habits, which should lead to accomplishing my long-term goals.

Therefore, it should be easy game and my volume should pick up heavily over the coming weeks like I want....right?

really cool blog man, following. gl with the mindset stuff

Gracias amigo!

-----------------

Just had to cut my session short cause my mental game was really slipping. Had a frustrating session and day in general kinda. Games were ****ty anyway. Woke up at 5:15am today for some ****ing reason, which definitely magnified my frustration as the day went on. Didn't play that horrible or anything, but the combo of being tired and frustrated is no bueno when playing in tough $2knl lineups. Had a few brief moments today where I got off my game, especially in this last session, and that's all it takes.

Put in some really good hours the past few days on a positive note though. Have given myself kind of an actual schedule that has helped and led to no mental resistance so far. Also have been really tuned in to how the population is playing in my games and I'm just seeing things pretty clearly overall right now. Have made some subtle tweaks and will choose to trust myself even more so with them going forward now.

Ugh, still have a general feeling of frustration in me. Gonna take a few more minutes to myself, breathe, and put things in perspective (I'm pretty sure objectively I shouldn't be as frustrated as I feel right now). Then I'll make a drink, hang out with my ridiculously cute and funny daughter, and I'll be 100% good to go from then on. It is amazing how pissed off I can feel right now, but know in less than an hour I'll be totally cool and couldn't care less. Kinda makes you realize how dumb it is to get frustrated at all (or at least for more than a few moments until your awareness of it kicks in) if that's the case.

Decided I'll pick up a bunch of sushi from my favorite spot for dinner tonight. **** it! I've been pretty damn good this year wrt spending money on food. Plus I'm drinking my own booze from home which is the real money saver. Cheers!

Some Thoughts from the past week

(1) having a broke parent(s) is sad. It's tough to watch, tough to navigate wrt to how to help, and tough emotionally on everyone around them (including themselves obv).

(2) relationships are so huge in life. I've previously totally undervalued them wrt to poker. I've been a lone wolf in the poker world and now that I've been valuing it more I realize that it has cost me dearly. I'm sure I've missed out on plenty of opportunities and have a feeling I would have had more fun experiences and had for sure had more money (likely A LOT more) if I had gone about my poker journey differently wrt relationships. I'm excited for the next few years bc of starting this upgrade.

(3) I wonder how much higher my EV would be if I just always played my A game? **** it, even if I just always only played my B or B+ game. The balance between how many hours each individual can play and play consistently at their B or better game is pretty damn fascinating. There's sooooo much extra win rate available out there, and still plenty of extra total $EV available to anyone who can improve their mental game (not tilting, consistency, competitive mindset, work ethic, etc).

(4) Related to last point, I think over the next 5 years the biggest evolution of the biggest winners in poker will be mental game related and not technical. Along with mental game it will be the overall business side of poker. By the "business side" I mean things like networking, money management, optimal decisions of when/where to play, overall lifestlye design, investing, branding, etc. Basically everything related to being a pro other than actual Run It Once style technical poker improvement (that will always still be important obviously). This has already been going on, but I think over time it will prove even more important. Basically the ones who are going to end up with all the money in 10-20 years aren't going to be a bunch of the technically and theoretically best poker players. The guys who mostly focus on just studying and improving micro edges and aren't zoomed out looking at the bigger picture in poker and life are going to have big regrets (if they can ever eventually be self-aware enough to) they got lost going too far down that path.

(5) Somehow after starting the year off running like crap and not playing much the first 2 or 3 weeks of the year, I'm going to finish off the year most likely running hot/having a big month and putting in a good effort wrt to total hours. I'll do a January review sometime in next few days.

(6) Consistency and finding enjoyment while being consistent is the theme I'm feeling right now. Recommend anyone reading this to mediate on that for a moment..

January Recap

Online Results: Missing yesterday's results where I played about 6 hours and probably won or loss within $1k, not exactly sure.





Live:



Profited around $47k in about 128 hrs of play.

The heat was real when I played live. Can think of 3 nut rivers in last week and a half alone that were super lucky for me in that they made villain's hand while making my better hand at same time - very lucky. I've now won 12 outta last 13 months, although I did lose a few months in a row right before that. Just trying to keep everything in perspective, really surprised month ended up being this good considering the first couple of weeks.

I'm happy with my work ethic overall on the month. I wanted to get in some more hours of actual play than I did, but considering where I was after first 2 weeks it was a good effort. I also studied a good amount and spent time on business side and some other things as well. I've figured out a better routine to get myself to play more online I think going forward. I expect to play a ton for me over the next couple months.

I'd rate my overall play at like a B- though, maybe even C+. I can do much better. I was in a good grove online wrt to my play but slipped a little last couple days. I played well live, except for one big mistake. I prob made like 4 or 5 BIG mistakes overall on the month I can think of off the top of my head. Including when I somehow read the board wrong yesterday and thought I had a str8 when I didnt - that cost me $1k. It really is amazing how many mistakes I make that I'm actually aware of. The struggle never ends. If any lower stakes players think that players at my level are playing some incredibly mistake free, GTO, max EV poker you would be very mistaken. Secret time - it's complete bull **** and that narrative exists for a few reasons I've realized. Maybe I'll go into that another time, but gotta go now and workout/get on with my day.

Let's go February, I'm ready to play better and be better!

awesome results. nice start to the year, gl the rest of the way. enjoying the thread.

Great start to the year! Very good thing for you that even having a really good result month you can still be honest with yourself about the areas you can still work/improve on. gl feb!

Thanks man! It's good to hear that you're enjoying it - never really know who's lurking. You still playing bunch of $1k and $2knl on Ignition? If so, we must be playing decent amount vs each other.

Thanks, yeah I think one of my biggest strengths is self-awareness.

pretty much 100% 5/10 these days. 10/20 is bad for my health.

Lost almost $10k online yesterday, it's whatever. But end of day I absolutely punted off 50bb's as a bluff in a 3b pot on the river. I convinced myself I needed to have at least a couple bluffs in this spot, which just is not true. Those are the things that kill me. It was at 5-10 too, so only $500. That $500 bothers me more than the other $9,500 I lost by far though! I quit right after and am happy to say it only bothered me for another 30 minutes or so, which is damn good for me compared to a couple years ago. Very mild self-hate and negative self talk throughout those 30 min too. That kind of **** may have served me back in the day, but it no longer does whatsoever, even if it does still briefly creep in at times. Cannot over-state how much this mindset shift has had an impact on my life.

I've been running poorly online and live this month no doubt. I really don't care - it barely enters my mind, and when it does I'm aware of the narrow shortsightedness of those thoughts - and off they go and I get back to focusing on what I'm supposed to.

I've been studying more than planned so far this year. Part of it is because I've been experimenting with some things in my game that have me excited. It's possible the EV gains aren't enough to justify the time I've been putting in on this the past couple weeks, but it's definitely possible they are. Even if they are small, I'm enjoying the process of being creative with it and how it's got me thinking about the game. I'm in one of those modes where poker strategy on a big level (not just a specific spot or something) is on my mind all the time right now. I'm actually confident I am spending my time wisely now that I think about it some more.

***Something just hit me from writing the above paragraphs. I used to be driven by and gripped with fear so much. Part of the reason a big losing day or running bad would bother me is bc of fear. Making mistakes bothered me so much bc of fear. I beat myself up to "teach" myself a lesson bc I feared I would keep making the same mistakes if I didn't. I feared I wasn't a big enough winner if I made mistakes. I was so damn scared of making mistakes. I was also fearful of developing my own strategies and being different than what other best regs were doing. I just wanted to be showed a blueprint to follow. So I wouldn't have dared to do some of the studying/changes I've been making in my game lately bc I didn't trust myself enough.

Anyway, I've also been eating better the past week or so, but I really slipped for around a month. I'd say since new years I've put on around 3lbs of pure fat. I'm really gonna have to be good here if I want to meet my goal by the end of the 1st quarter. I've also been on my phone too much, especially at night. Gotta cut that back for sure. Man, it's tough to have all areas of your life humming along like you want at the same time!

That's all for now. Just trying to keep growing, with all the imperfect iterations that involves. Two steps forward, one step back kinda thing for me it always seems.

Reflection on my recent relationship with money

It's weird sometimes to look back just a few weeks ago and realize something was off with you and you didn't even realize it. The only reason I noticed is because I snapped out of it the last couple weeks, a fog was lifted and I suddenly felt different - in a good way.

I now see that much of January was filled with a state of mild anxiety, or internal tension I guess. I think some of that was unavoidable due to some family drama that's been on-going with my parents. Maybe it's also the time of year that was getting to me as well, with all goal setting going on. Too much motivation leading to a feeling of impatience and wanting it all right now I guess. I remember late January/early February 2017 after my kid was born feeling similar. I had taken a couple weeks off for the birth and all, and I had such a newfound feeling of motivation that I rushed coming back to poker. The result ended up in me playing way too tired (something I didn't do previously) and getting smashed at 10-20nl online. I was still trying to break into playing in that environment at the time. Combine playing at a new higher limit vs tougher players and sleep deprivation and there's usually gonna be a problem. I ended up playing really bad overall. Too much motivation and impatience on my part for sure.

But I've identified the main reason being my relationship with money had swung too far in the wrong direction. In the past 6 months I have listened to hundreds and hundreds of hours of podcasts on money, read so many different blog posts on money and business, thought long and hard about my philosophy on money, life, and where I want my long term future to be, changes I needed to make, short term goals, long term goals, future business ideas and how to execute, poker business things, etc. I had a wake up call with money. This newfound passion was strong. All good things. But I had started swinging out of balance a little.

I noticed an unsettling feeling on weekend days if I wasn't doing anything productive or at least reading things on my phone. I felt like I should always be doing something. An over-arching feeling of there's not enough time in the day to do everything I want. My long-term goals were so important to me now and always on my mind.

But those goals led me to focus too much on the future and didn't allow me to enjoy the process of just focusing on the system that would get me to those long term goals way down the road. Then it really hit me. Wait, I have more money than I've ever had but it doesn't feel like it at all. I actually kinda felt like I had less than I did a year ago, or even like 5 years ago. But that's insane, I have been on a steady uptick wrt to my finances for years, and especially the last couple years. I have the biggest bankroll I've ever had, way more money invested in the stock market, a bigger net worth by far than I've ever had.

It made me think back to a few years ago when I was getting by fine, but not really saving much and just way worse with money in every way than I am now. Except for I was chill as f*** about it. Obviously I can't go back to being like that since I'm fully supporting a family now, and since I've clarified how and where I want my life to go. But I realized I needed to take a step back, put everything into perspective with how far I've come and the great spot I'm in now, and enjoy the present journey/process.

The past couple weeks I've done that and gotten back to focusing more on poker and what I need to do right now. That's resulted in a joyful feeling of peace in me. The difference is somewhat subtle, but very big at the same time. Feels like I'm back to myself. It feels good!

Nice post, can definitely relate to a lot of it. What have been your favorite personal finance/business podcasts? I've been listening to a fair bit of them the last couple years as well, would be nice to hear of any ones I've missed.

Awesome blog man. Serious wisdom and honestly, obviously learned from experience. 22 Year old 'up and comer' here. I'd love to hear more about financial mindset off the table.

I don't mind volatility in my lifestyle but I've always overspent/been unrealistic and rushed in my approach until very, very recently. Finally back on a consistent study path and feeling the improvement. No taxes on poker in Aus though very high cost of living (live games are juicy as a result but plan is still playing 99% online next couple years).

I feel I've become overly detached from money/success/results over the past couple years. Mostly because I knew I wasn't doing enough to achieve what I wanted and needed to protect myself emotionally from disappointment. I recognise now I need to change this around but I struggle to balance ambition and humility, will and faith etc. I know I'll never 'arrive' and the journey is the reward but back of my mind I'm still in a rush to live the 'baller life' I hoped to have by now. When my results dip or I need to focus on study over volume I worry that it's slipping further out of reach (urgency issues). Really I just want to be able to take some friends out to eat every now and then (broke students) and be able to travel without stressing over money.

I'd love to hear your perspective/approach to money when you were my age and how it would be different if you could do it over again. Solution for me might be as simple as fully accepting where I'm at (broke and ambitious with an abundance of opportunity) and trusting that my efforts and sacrifice now will pay off. I'm getting closer to this but there's still a gap to bridge mentally. I think I'm resistant to just doing what I know is incentivised, seeing some of it laid out might be helpful to me and other young guns

Hope that wasn't too ranty, I can sense a lot of cognitive dissonance in what I wrote but embarrassingly accurate. Thanks and good luck this year!

This is a really great thread. I’m also interested in which finance podcasts you’ve been listening to.

will be following, glgl sir!

Thanks guys!

More General:
-Tim Ferris
-Joe Rogan
-Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu

Finance/Business:
-Dough Roller Money Podcast - haven't listened much lately, it seems to have fallen off in the last year mostly. But when I found it, I listened to almost every episode starting from the beginning.
-ChooseFI - I've gone back from beginning on this one and listened to most episodes
-Financial Freedom Podcast - this guy has become one of my favorites in the space
-Radical Personal Finance
-Laptop Empires

I read a ton of blogs these days on finance, as well as some on mindset/getting better.

**** man... I just tried to type out a fairly short response (bc I'm on limited time at the monent), while trying to put a lot of deep thought into it and I couldn't do it. I wouldn't have been satisfied with my response to you. I'm going to have to write a long post on this topic in the near future now. So I'm not ignoring your question, I just want to take some time and space to write down my thoughts in a more coherent manner than I had just typed out.

For now I'll just say that you sound self aware and the fact that you are even posting this comment/question at your age is a great sign.

Thanks for the compliment and for your post!

awesome last post man, can relate a lot. great thread, keep the updates coming when you can

Budget (or lack thereof)

I had planned on doing a detailed budget breakdown here once my end of year credit card statements came out at end of January to help track my expenses better, see where I can cut, and so I could compare everything this time next year. But I've since figured out a few things wrt to budgets that have led me to scrap that whole idea, which are:

1) Budgets suck - they are tedious , not fun, and I've found out are pretty confusing with how these companies (personal capital, credit card companies, etc) track and categorize all the different expenses. So it's hard to get an accurate picture of exactly what's in what category to compare to in the future. And I'm just not going to waste my time and be a psycho and track every expense in an excel sheet.

2) I don't like the mindset budgets can create - when I was really in the mode of thinking about spending and budgets I started getting too lost in the weeds. I started focusing on too many little insignificant expenses. I mean dumb s*** like considering driving to a completely different grocery store across town just to get cheaper eggs and maybe some coffee only, while still going to my normal grocery store down the street as well for everything else. I kinda started feeling guilty for getting an afternoon americano at starbucks. But sometimes I love a good afternoon coffee! I started considering cutting out our gardners or cleaning ladies. But I hate doing yard work and I hate doing real cleaning! My time can be better spent elsewhere either making money or enjoying my time. Overall I think strict budgeting can lead to an in-efficient use of time. But mostly I just think it leads to a scarcity mindset. I want an abundance mindset, albeit a balanced and accurate one, that enhances my life.

3) I f****** made over $300k last year! I say that because while I think I used to bee too careless and not aware enough of how and what I was spending my money on, I think at my income and net worth level its swinging too far the other way. That's not what my nature is, nor is it the kind of person I want to be. I don't think it's the most intelligent way to spend my time and mental energy. I want to enjoy a lot of the little day to day small perks that having money allows, those are some of the best things about having a good income. At this stage in my development as a silly little chimp human, I have enough trust in myself to self-assess if I've gotten too far off the balanced/optimal path and then steer myself back pretty quickly.

Here's a few simple steps you could do instead of a strict budget:

1) Really reflect on what your long term money goals are and how you will get there. This will help you come up with an idea if or how much you need to cut from you spending.

2) Do a one time full picture look/tracking of all your expenses to know where you're at if you have no idea.

3) Realize that about 70% of American's expenses come from housing, transportation/cars, and food and drink. Those are the big boys where you get the most bang for your buck.

For me personally, I've done all the above and won't be doing most of it again unless something major changes. I'll just keep in mind that the majority comes from housing ( I'm happy with my situation and not changing for the sake of saving money anytime soon), car (fine with this), and food/drink ( here's where I will be looking to cut and be very mindful), and not stress about all the little pleasures that often result in the most day to day enjoyment of my life ( while being mindful that these do all add up in the long run).

If anyone's curious about what I spent the last 2 years, here it is real quick. I'm going to check back in next year on these numbers for sure:

2017: before income taxes I spent around $140k, with groceries of $8,836, restaurants of $15,921, shopping (whatever that means, I know from looking it's a whole mix of things and not just like clothes and s***) $16,136

2018: before income taxes $160k, groceries $13,953, restaurants $18, 377, shopping (not even sure it was tracked same as yr before) $28,126

Keep in mind I have wife and kid and live in an extremely high cost of living area and I have a mortgage/high taxes and pay for our health insurance.

Next year I'm expect that total number to be down to around $140k again.

so like 20% ish savings rate prob?