k m8, enjoy having the worst seat on the table for the rest of your career.

Sorry but you're wrong. You quite obviously want to be in position to the whale so you get to act last on every street post flop and capitalise on his mistakes.

Somehow I ended back ITT.

Actually, we were talking about a player that raises 100% of the time preflop. This is a maniac. This type of player is going to be extremely aggressive postflop as well, which means we are generally the absolute last person to act on each consecutive street as well (ie we check, maniac bets, then everyone else makes a decision before us). Since he is a maniac, other players will be calling him extremely light. Players are going to call him with hands like bottom pair which they would never call vs normal players. This puts us at a greater advantage as we are acting after multiple players have put a lot of money in the middle with relatively weak holdings. If we are on his left and raise we blow everyone out of the pot BEFORE they put any money in. If we are on his right and raise we blow everyone out of the pot AFTER they have put money into it. This is significant.

A few summary points:

1) Pots will have more dead money when it's our turn to make a decision
2) We won't be the ones putting dead money in the pot
3) Being last to act after the maniac we will be able to play a wider range of hands
4) Players' hands will be much more defined when it's on us (making it easier for us to play our hands stronger..ie a hand like top pair top kicker can be the nuts when you are on the maniac's right)
5) We have to put very little money in when their is significant action..ie we limp, maniac makes it 10x, players call, and guy with AA makes it 75x. If we were on his left we would have lost 10x but because we are on his right we only lose 1x.
6) We are offered more favorable pot odds to call on every street.

Thanks, I'm now officially retired from poker. FWIW, it's extremely rare that you will find a successful live 5/T+ player posting advice on a free internet forum. I know tons of these players across the US and even the ones that post on forums do not actually post strategy. I suppose Andrew Neeme on youtube would be an exception.

Always enjoyable how Crusher manages to offer not only A (A+?) trolling but also valuable strategy poasts.

One downside to choosing to sit OOP to a maniac is, of course, a post-flop positional disadvantage. But this shouldn't matter if you're manipulating the SPR pre, which is exactly what limp/deciding allows you to do.

Pretty poor advice if you're advocating this. But then again, you're advocating sitting OOP to a maniac so...

Doesn't matter. You make it seem like every hand is 6 handed? In reality, every hand is 2-3 handed and we all take turns against the fish.

It's not. Because unless we're playing only the top 4% of hands, the absolute last thing we're going to want to do is limp 3bet and blow everyone out of the pot leaving maniac with position on us in a 4bet pot 300 deep.

So, what, you're saying we limp, get iso'd by the maniac to 10x, hope enough other players call that we can price ourselves in with our limping range to play OOP postflop multiway in bloated pots with this limping range?

Actually, we will. Because we'll be limp/folding or raise/folding just about every time to the fish.

In the nut worst possible situation, OOP multiway bloated pot nil visibility with our "wider range" i.e weak hands.

Is it? 3-4 handed, T87tt, OOP with AT. Tell me how this is a good situation. Unless you somehow end up with AQ on Q72r, by virtue of you being OOP multiway without initiative, TPTK is never going to be the nuts.

Idk about you, but generally I don't advocate limp/calling 10x isos.

If we were to rate "favourable pot odds" OOP vs this guy, as we would rate them pretty young thangs in my linguistics class, your "more favourable pot odds" would still see you banging the 3/10 instead of maybe a 1/10. When this maniac is potting flops and throwing in any number of chips he can grasp at the time, very very rarely will we get favourable pot odds.

I'm sorry but limp/calling oop is the nut worst way to play vs this player.

I hope that wasn't premature because of your propensity to limp/call vs whales?

What's your point lol? That I should bow down to you for posting your "wisdom" in my thread? FWIW I'd consider the advice of a winning 50NLz player more valuable than that of a live 5/T player, especially after this conversation.

This is the only part of your last post that I read. It seems that you have a big chip on your shoulder for players that are better than you. The points you made previously show a very elementary understanding of the game and an inability to think outside of the box.

For the record, even though I played live poker for a living for close to 5 years, I am first and foremost an online player. Obviously I can beat 50NL and much higher than that. In recent years when I've played online it's mostly been 10/20 PLO though. The other player you blew up on today in the winrates thread was a highly successful online player and has done quite well in live poker...he's probably the best player you will ever find posting in LLSNL and rarely makes appearances in strat threads but when he does he is normally welcomed with open arms. You just want to argue with players that are on a much much higher level than yourself rather than critically analyzing your own misconceptions. This will likely inhibit you greatly as you move up in stakes. Good luck though.

I'm not the one with the misconception. But thanks for stopping by.

right of a massive aggro whale = dream scenario

in both positions, you have to hit hands but at least on his right you don't end up spewing away when he decides to check. Knowing what the others are doing after his raises/bets is also helpfull.

But for a standard reg, not thinking out of the box that just follow what he's seen around, its not optimal.

Last 3 sessions:

-$80 (2/5)
-$230 (2/3)
+$1,400 (2/3)

Getting in some decent volume still. Hopefully get another good session in this long weekend.

glad to see you doing well bro, didnt read the walls of text above but we generally want to be IP vs whales from my experience

Yeah being IP I think is the nuts. Sorta following what th others have l have to say but taking as it comes.

Meale!!

Long time no speak!

(You probably won't remember me, you helped me out years ago with my micro challenge and study.) I haven't played in over a year (Treasury, in Feb 2016).

Thought I'd pop in and see how things were going and found this thread, so cool that you're setting this pro challenge for yourself, awesome!

Will have to ingest the whole thread and sub. Gl man

Hey mate! Ofc i remember ya! How's the poker going for yourself?

Oh sweet as! Glad you remember

I haven't played poker in any form since Feb 2016 at Treasury. I tend to get in and out of it pretty easily. I managed to erase what profits I had made in the game (ending back at initial bankroll) and called it quits then.

Oh I also bought a subscription to Beyond Tells last year, it's pretty good info, you looked at it?

I think it's great that you're setting concrete challenges and trying to leave the 9-5, I'll definitely be checking in this thread often!

Thanks dude! Nah I've not heard of the beyond tells stuff yet, going to check it out rn, ty.

oops

I've never felt so bad about having a -$350 session in my life before. Probably because i was +$1200 for most of it...

1k effective, villain is super spazzy, opening ATC to $20, zero fold to 3bet, floating post, he's like $3k deep after a couple hours. This is a 2/5

V opens to 20 in MP, guy on my left acts before i do (calls 20) so i decide to raise to $80 w AQo, everyone folds except villain (dealer let's guy to my left take his 20 back).

Flop: 167, K 5 7

V checks, good board for my range, it's the last hand before dinner break and everyone's left, i figure a cbet has very good chance of working on this board at this time despite it being Vs this guy.

Hero bets 90, V calls.

Turn: $347, K 5 7 3

Villain leads $235... At this point I'm genuinely perplexed. He has no strong hands that lead here and his range is incredibly wide. I feel like he's just floated the flop with nothing and is trying to steal now. I just can't think of any hands that take this line so i guess i defaulted to thinking maybe air does?

Hero calls hoping V will shut down otr or I'll be able to bluff.

River: about $820 K 5 7 3 J

V leads $300 and has about 450 behind.

I honestly was tossing up between calling and jamming for a bit. But i figured V could turn some small pairs into bluffs so jamming was better. Hero jams and villain sigh calls with J7dd.

THAT hand makes sense, even though i think his turn lead is terrible, it's pretty much the only value hand he can conceivably have here imo. But still i never put him on it since it's such a strange line.

Anyway, what have i learnt from the biggest punt of my life so far:

- essentially, it ain't worth getting into ego/levelling wars with the marks at the table.
- let the aggro fish run you over until you get a good high EV spot Vs them
- when people put a lot of money into the pot, they probably have something.

Ahh well, will prob play again today and update afterwards to recap the weekend and also how things are travelling for me more generally.

How can you say this when you imply he gets to flop w/ 100% of hands? I see 16 comboes of pure nuts and >100 comboes combined of 2p/tp?

edit: not 16 comboes, but some, and still LOTS of tp/2p

Of which how many lead the turn? When I say he is opening any two and never folding to 3bet, there is a degree of hyperbole here - I don't think he is quite ******ed enough to have 16 combos of 46 here. My point is that he has very little value/strong hands when reflecting on his entire range just because it's so wide, even if he has all value combos (almost all don't take this line though).

Previous hand with him went something like this:

ep opens 20, one call another call, hero in LP squeeze to 85 w QQ, villain calls ip, all folds except villain.

Flop 170: 289

hero cbet 90, v call

Turn 350: 289 T

hero x villain snapjam for about pot. hero calls v shows 78o, we RIT and hold both.

He's also xjammed in the exact same spot for the exact same size with naked 9 high flush draw vs hero's AA. Think I'd won maybe $700-800 off him before the big hand.

Ofc, I'm absolutely 100% not trying to justify my play. I 100% know it was bad. The reason I'm posting here is to be done with the hand and to cement the importance of the lessons I learnt:

These cliffs essentially.

^^

Spot on, and if I may add one thing more to the lesson pack

if "******ed" is a relative concept (relative to the way you/we theorise the game), players like this are full on, the whole nine yards, tardspewwhales - always. Don't ever fall into the trap of trying to rationalise their plays and thus attempting to read them/range them mathematically.

Update:

Since last update I've played a couple PLO sessions.

+$435
+$2,115 (kinda tilting tho coz I got AAxx in vs AAxx 300bb deep and lost one of the two runs which was gg $500 - in future I'll ask my opponent if they'd rather take the money back)

The game is very good and full of gamblers, as you'd expect. Of course, I ran fairly well also. I feel like I'm playing EXTREMELY nitty, however. It actually is upsetting some of the players at the table that I can play one hand an orbit and clean up.

The game plays with a Mississippi straddle just about every hand - which means my LP opens (CO/HJ) virtually never see me secure position on all villains in each hand. This I think contributes to how tight I'm playing. Of course, I'm trying to play hands that will be nut flushes, high sets, and nut joints. Very frequently the game will see someone with 60-80bbs open from EP/MP to pot which, with the sippi, makes it very expensive to see flops. You get someone potting (generally cbetting) flop just about every time so you have very poor visibility and multiway, peeling flops without nut draws is burning cash in this game. So my strat is to play very tight pre, and when I do play, play nutted double suited hands and big rundowns. I also seem to be limping AA a lot. If I'm EP and look down at AA82ss, I might simply limp - raising in this game will see a bloated flop 7 way at which point I don't want to be continuing very often. By limping and backraising over isos/3bets, I can play flops with favourable SPRs vs 1-2 opponents with AA - which I'd much rather do than 5-6 handed.

So I'm enjoying PLO atm. Think my strategy is working decently well.

===============================

So I find myself at a crossroads in life. I'm officially making more money per hour playing poker this year than I do at work (after tax at least). Obv lolsample (<200 hours) but I was losing for over 100 of those and as it sits I've only won 48% of my sessions.

Work is very very stressful after being promoted to a role with a lot more responsibility. Unfortunately, I'm on the same wage as I was when I was sweeping floors in the factory. I don't think this is right but at the same time I don't think it's right to ask for more money, since I've only been there for 6 months? Anyway, with the poker going well and savings also plodding along nicely, I have some options.

First, the Brisbane vs Melbourne connundrum. I said at the outset I want to move to Melbourne to play, for a number of reasons - the weather being one, but also because the Crown casino offers a large number of games 24/7. BUT with 10% rake capped at $15, $5 table change charge AND you being required to pay for food/drinks, this is a huge issue for me if I'm intending on playing many thousand hours here.

Obviously, the answer is homegames. The games I play at in Brisbane rake 10% capped at $10 (one game caps at $13 which is high, but still better than Crown) and offer meals/unlimited food/drink. Even just having access to a microwave so I can eat my own food - that's huge and I don't see how I would be able to eat cheaply playing full time at Crown since I'd have to buy food there. Fact of the matter is, the food rake combined with the actual rake is probably too high.

Now I don't know what the homegame scene is like in Melbourne. I know there are homegames but I don't know the rake or catering options - I imagine they'll be relatively similar to the Brisbane games.

But I was thinking of perhaps staying in Brisbane to grind the homegames instead of playing at Crown in Melbourne. At least for the winter and then maybe head to Melbourne around December/Jan.

I'm not at my $25k savings goal, but I'm +$3800 from poker for the year playing about once a week, coupled with my weekly salary savings and some other streams of income, I'm at a point where I have a deep enough bankroll to potentially consider quitting my job and grinding homegames til I reach the $25k target. At that point, I'll probably head to Melbourne for a week and try to scout out the best homegames - to see if they're even comparable to the Brisbane games which I'm very happy with. If they're decent in Melb, I'll move down permanently.

So some questions to you!

1. Does anyone have any solutions to the food rake problem of playing in a casino full time as opposed to homegame where you can BYO food/cop food for free?
2. Quit my job now and play more poker to reach savings goal or stay at work til I hit the figure I need to leave?

Seems to me like your playing with scared money.

Playing really "nitty" and avoiding "High variance low EV spots". If your bankroll isn't big enough to play a stake don't play it simple. Also don't avoid a spot that is + EV lulul regardless of variance.

Why would you quit a variance free job? You don't even have a meaningful sample size. If 2/3 live is anything like online 25nl then you should run in the opposite direction.

That's very far from the case. Bankroll is more than big enough for the game and I'm not playing scared money. There's nothing "scared money" about requesting a chop before the flop 300 deep AAxx vs AAxx - it's variance for the sake of variance. I'm pretty sure the best strategy in this particular game, given the straddles and avg stack is to play a very tight range of hands with good nut potential - as per the advice I received form the MSPLO forum.

Because it sucks?

I fairly certain I know enough about these live games with the rake reduction to know I'm going to make more per hour than at work. I don't really think it's close either.

Obv they're very different.

I would be careful if you are upsetting people at home games by being really nitty, you might not keep getting invited back and crown might become your only option.

Also well over half of the yearly profit from poker has come from 1 PLO session. This is not a basis to work out a decent hourly. You strategy sounds good but no one wants a mega nit at thier home game, loosen up a bit and like eazii says if it's plus ev it's plus ev, you should be raising aces with a straddle, if you see a flop 7 ways after potting your spr is going to make the hand play super easy anyway.

Don't quit your job don't nit up don't equate your hourly with a session worth half yearly profits.

Poker's gona suck when you want to go out with friends but have to stay and grind when there is a massive whale on the table. The sleep schedule sucks. It also sucks when you're on a month+ downswing. Could you put in a 6hr+ session after a month+ of downswinging? You'll be busiest in the summer when everyone is basically out and having a good time.

Loads of other reasons why no variance job is better than low limit live.