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Old 07-11-2016, 08:34 AM   #76
acidhauss
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London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind



Some interesting/comical HH's over the last week or so (not including this weekend):

Hand 1

On a beyond GOAT deep-stacked short-handed 1/3 with five absolute spuds on 400-1500+. The dream. You can literally get away with limping ATC in late position and wizarding your way to showdown (not that any particular wizarding is necessary).

1/3 600 effective.

Shortstack opens MP to 12, I 3bet KK to 40, SB cold calls, fish calls.

Flop KK3 Pot 110.

Spoiler:


UTG checks, I bet 50, SB jams 450, UTG folds, Hero fist pumps.

Hand 2

There's an argument to raising the flop here for value, but the problem is whatever bluffs I have need to beat the fishes 55/66 type hand. Also I don't think BB reg has any flush draws in his flop donking range. I'd rather under-rep my hand and just flat call the flop I think. OTR I'm ahead (rather than chopping) 95% of the time so should jam for value, but the fact of the matter is I'm not bluffing a reg I play with every day off TT, only to lose with QsXx-high at showdown vs the fishes 77/AsXx.

1/2 450 effective.

Aggro reg (800) opens 10 UTG, Fish (150) flats HJ, I flat A2 OTB (450), Tightish Reg BB flats (1000+)

Flop 422 Pot 41. BB donks 25, UTG flats, Fish raises to 60, I flat, BB flats, UTG folds.

Turn 4 Pot 241. BB checks, Fish jams 90, I call, BB calls.

River 5 Pot 511. BB checks, I check. Fish showsdown 55 and scoops the lot

Hand 3

Getting for paper-thin value versus higher-stakes whale

1/2 with 5 straddle.

Hero opens 99 to 15 in MP, UTG Straddle flats.

Flop 824 Pot 33. UTG checks, I bet 25, Straddle calls.

Turn K Pot 83, I bet 50, Straddle calls.

River A Pot 183, I bet 120, Straddle tank-calls and mucks.

I think I'm going to work out the hands I played on the weekend this evening, and potentially grind 50NL zoom a bit for the rest of the week.

Ive played a lot of poker this weekend, and was pretty tired almost all last week. Im at work at the moment and finding it all a bit hard to come down from.

I think a week off going to a casino will give me some much needed rest and recreation, as well as give me time to look for another job.

GL

Last edited by acidhauss; 07-11-2016 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 07-12-2016, 08:04 PM   #77
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind


So I basically did the opposite of what I said above, and went up to play anyway. I was blessed enough to sit in an extremely spuddy 1/2, even though I didn't get any/donated (oh well.) I've HH's the The only notable hands of the session. As always I appreciate any feedback on these hands. I'm particularly keen to hear peoples thoughts on Hand 1, particularly from my fellow live bum-hunters.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand 1

Ugly hand where I could have bet/checked/raised/folded instead at many decision points.

Pre:I don't like playing AJo in a multiway pot. BB's range is very AK/AQ heavy, but folding pre is hard when these limpers were so bad/loose. I think calling is the best option; when I put the 15 in the middle my plan from the outset was to fold to any significant aggression from the BB even OTF in exceptional circumstances..

Flop: Theres not much else to do but call this modest 0.5psb OTF. I think if there were one/two more people in the pot, or the BB bombs it I would just fold though.

Turn: I am somewhat concerned that the BB will check-raise in this bloated pot OTT. I think in hindsight checking or betting smaller is better.

River: Too thin (?).

Live 1/2 with 5 Straddle. Hero is UTG (i.e. the straddler) with AJ

Fish calls 5, LJ Whale (310) calls 5, CO Whale (250) calls, BB rando raises to 15, Hero calls UTG, LJ calls, CO calls.

Flop A76 Pot 60. BB bets 30, LJ calls, CO calls.

Turn T Pot 180, BB checks, Hero bets 90, LJ calls, CO calls, BB folds.

River 4 Pot 450. Hero jams 180, LJ calls with A6

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hand 2

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. I think he takes this line pre with only AA most of the time, electing to squeeze bigger with QQ (I realise I am basically guessing whether this is true or not). OTF I should just fold. At the time I thought folding OTF is just too nitty, but this is a weak way of thinking. Its not a nitty fold, its a good fold where I beat nothing.

Live 1/2. Hero is UTG+1 with KK

UTG Huge Whale (500) limps, Hero (400) raises to 15, CO calls, BTN Reg (800) raises to 50, UTG folds, I flat, BTN flats.

Flop Q95 Pot 150, check check BTN bets 50, I call, CO folds.

Turn 9 Pot 250, check BTN bets 120 I fold.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

glgl. Going to watch some awesome games done quick speedruns and get an early night.




Last edited by acidhauss; 07-12-2016 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 07-13-2016, 05:59 AM   #78
Richie4444
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Hand 1: Agreed AJ OOP is not ideal but given table you described it's hard to fold for 3x when you straddled.

Flop: standard call

Turn: Why are you betting here? Any why so much? I think all draws fold and only better hands call. Unlikely he has AK, AQ as they limped called pre so any calling range is more towards 2p and sets, or maybe a small chance of a monster draw like 8,9 spades. This should be c/c depending on sizing of LJ

River: Jamming is pretty terrible - how is worse ever calling after turn action? You are effectively turning AJ into a bluff by jamming. AP I would check and likely fold to any bet as you beat almost nothing.

Hand 2: Do you ever 4b KK here? Is BTN reg able to raise in this spot wide? You seem to think he is nutted to AA based on sizing? I think that's difficult to be so sure.

Flop: I like flatting here with KK.

Turn: Can V have A, Q with ace of spades? Surely that's huge part of his range when he takes this line. He also does the same with AA, QQ, J,10 spades....
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:09 AM   #79
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

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Originally Posted by Richie4444 View Post
Hand 1: Agreed AJ OOP is not ideal but given table you described it's hard to fold for 3x when you straddled.

Flop: standard call

Turn: Why are you betting here? Any why so much? I think all draws fold and only better hands call. Unlikely he has AK, AQ as they limped called pre so any calling range is more towards 2p and sets, or maybe a small chance of a monster draw like 8,9 spades. This should be c/c depending on sizing of LJ

River: Jamming is pretty terrible - how is worse ever calling after turn action? You are effectively turning AJ into a bluff by jamming. AP I would check and likely fold to any bet as you beat almost nothing.

Hand 2: Do you ever 4b KK here? Is BTN reg able to raise in this spot wide? You seem to think he is nutted to AA based on sizing? I think that's difficult to be so sure.

Flop: I like flatting here with KK.

Turn: Can V have A, Q with ace of spades? Surely that's huge part of his range when he takes this line. He also does the same with AA, QQ, J,10 spades....
Cheers Richie. RE: your points:

Hand 1
  • The LJ and CO were extremely wide pre even for a whale, and had shown down hands like T2o, 63s and the like.
  • OTF I assumed that the LJ and CO whales would raise the flop on this relatively co-ordinated texture. I think this is less reliable if the BB were to bet greater than half pot, but I think the action is sufficient that it makes flopped 2p unlikely.
  • The T isn't the greatest card in the deck obviously as 98 gets there, as well as AT,T7s etc. Saying that I thought I could still get value from flopped gutshots that have turned pairs, flush draws that have turned pairs, flopped pairs with gutshots, and weaker Ax which the LJ and CO have in their range and won't fold.
  • OTR Yes, I think its thin especially 3-way, but given the size of the pot relative to the stacks (barely 40% or so), the number of Ax we beat, and the multitude of missed draws likely in at least one of their ranges I still think jamming river is +EV.
  • Again, its worth pointing out how exceptionally loose/stationy the LJ and CO were, even for a typical live rec/fish. Think 2006 if you want to get an idea. Yes I agree, even for your run of the mill semi-bad fish that jamming is bad here however again I think that they were bad enough for jamming to be just about +EV especially given the size of the pot OTR.

Hand 2
  • Again, I should have emphasized how bad the UTG limper was. On this particular table it was standard to raise to 15 even with no limpers as he'd call ATC pre.
  • Yes, he is capable of raising light, but when he raises 50 over my 15 and a cold caller with the whale yet to invest more than 2 in the pot I think this is an extremely nutted line/sizing. When he uses this particular sizing I actually think it narrows his range down to literally Aces. FWIW I'd seen him flat AK vs an EP opener when the same fish was in the blinds, even though I've usualyl seen him 3bet this particular combo the majority of the time in this spot.
  • With all that in mind, on possible the worst texture of all time based on the above assumptions (i.e. Qxx) especially to a 1/3psb I don't think theres anything to do other than make a disciplined fold as we beat nothing. As played OTT, I don't think he 3bets JTs, AQ given the described table dynamic. I think he is incentivised to flat these holdings in position against the whale.
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:50 AM   #80
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

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Originally Posted by acidhauss View Post
Cheers Richie. RE: your points:

Hand 1
  • The LJ and CO were extremely wide pre even for a whale, and had shown down hands like T2o, 63s and the like.
  • OTF I assumed that the LJ and CO whales would raise the flop on this relatively co-ordinated texture. I think this is less reliable if the BB were to bet greater than half pot, but I think the action is sufficient that it makes flopped 2p unlikely.
  • The T isn't the greatest card in the deck obviously as 98 gets there, as well as AT,T7s etc. Saying that I thought I could still get value from flopped gutshots that have turned pairs, flush draws that have turned pairs, flopped pairs with gutshots, and weaker Ax which the LJ and CO have in their range and won't fold.
  • OTR Yes, I think its thin especially 3-way, but given the size of the pot relative to the stacks (barely 40% or so), the number of Ax we beat, and the multitude of missed draws likely in at least one of their ranges I still think jamming river is +EV.
  • Again, its worth pointing out how exceptionally loose/stationy the LJ and CO were, even for a typical live rec/fish. Think 2006 if you want to get an idea. Yes I agree, even for your run of the mill semi-bad fish that jamming is bad here however again I think that they were bad enough for jamming to be just about +EV especially given the size of the pot OTR.

Hand 2
  • Again, I should have emphasized how bad the UTG limper was. On this particular table it was standard to raise to 15 even with no limpers as he'd call ATC pre.
  • Yes, he is capable of raising light, but when he raises 50 over my 15 and a cold caller with the whale yet to invest more than 2 in the pot I think this is an extremely nutted line/sizing. When he uses this particular sizing I actually think it narrows his range down to literally Aces. FWIW I'd seen him flat AK vs an EP opener when the same fish was in the blinds, even though I've usualyl seen him 3bet this particular combo the majority of the time in this spot.
  • With all that in mind, on possible the worst texture of all time based on the above assumptions (i.e. Qxx) especially to a 1/3psb I don't think theres anything to do other than make a disciplined fold as we beat nothing. As played OTT, I don't think he 3bets JTs, AQ given the described table dynamic. I think he is incentivised to flat these holdings in position against the whale.
Wow sounds like a great game! Did you at least stack one of the whales??

Given LJ and CO are whales I guess your reasoning makes more sense OTT for hand 1, agree whales will pay to see rivers with pair + flush draw etc. But I really think the river is a check/call if you believe the whales can turn such hands into a bluff. I just think shoving even with SPR <1 is bad because they cant really call with anything that doesn't beat you - hence why I see this as turning AJ into a bluff here OTR. (or maybe they are so bad he will actually make miracle/stupid call with Ax)

Hand 2: Sounds like BTN reg is just auto-raising his pocket pairs here, which could be 10s-AA. I think anything less than A,Q, QQ-AA checks back turn though so as you said you're not really beating anything except for A,Q. Maybe a tiny chance of A,K with A of Spades but when you flat flop I can't see him betting turn again if he's any good. Good fold as played I guess. But no 4b pre?
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:00 AM   #81
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Alright mate, I'm based in Essex and really should be getting into the live scene more! Any idea what you are making in general in these 1/2, 2/5 games?

And is 5-6x the general open size? Seems most are stacked 200+bbs and 6x open which pretty much null n voids the blinds into being twice their size. So you're pretty much playing 2-4 and 5-10 o_0
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:33 AM   #82
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

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Originally Posted by Richie4444 View Post

Wow sounds like a great game! Did you at least stack one of the whales??

Nope, donated it in the aforementioned hands!


Given LJ and CO are whales I guess your reasoning makes more sense OTT for hand 1, agree whales will pay to see rivers with pair + flush draw etc. But I really think the river is a check/call if you believe the whales can turn such hands into a bluff. I just think shoving even with SPR <1 is bad because they cant really call with anything that doesn't beat you - hence why I see this as turning AJ into a bluff here OTR. (or maybe they are so bad he will actually make miracle/stupid call with Ax)

I think check-calling is an option too, as one of the whales had donk jammed T2o OTR on Js9s8x Jx 2x after flatting a turn check-raise.

Hand 2: Sounds like BTN reg is just auto-raising his pocket pairs here, which could be 10s-AA. I think anything less than A,Q, QQ-AA checks back turn though so as you said you're not really beating anything except for A,Q. Maybe a tiny chance of A,K with A of Spades but when you flat flop I can't see him betting turn again if he's any good. Good fold as played I guess. But no 4b pre?

Maybe I haven't played enough, but I think in Live 1/2 people raise for value especially vs tight UTG ranges with only AA-QQ+,AK and sometimes JJ. To reiterate what I said above, I think the table dynamics were exceptional enough that it is literally AA-QQ given that the guest of honour has only invested 2 so far in the pot. If I had less than 400 I'd get the lot in preflop, but I think that this particular 3bet sizing leans towards AA more than QQ. Even if I'm only 50% sure of this, I'm getting in KK vs a range of AA-QQ(3) with only 35% as an underdog for 2BI.
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Alright mate, I'm based in Essex and really should be getting into the live scene more! Any idea what you are making in general in these 1/2, 2/5 games?

And is 5-6x the general open size? Seems most are stacked 200+bbs and 6x open which pretty much null n voids the blinds into being twice their size. So you're pretty much playing 2-4 and 5-10 o_0
Hey bud, I've answered these questions in-and-around this thread I believe if you trawl through .

Regarding opening sizes, in general live-regs open to 5x in 1/2 games but (as with everything) it depends on...
  • How much the spot will call (I've opened to 17 occasionally)
  • How many short stacks are on the table or have position on me
  • If there are any very tight players in the blinds (unsurprisingly this doesnt really bear much weight)
  • How lazy I am...(effort to say "raise to 8" : )

    Randos/fish/bad regs open anywhere from 6 to 12 preflop, or isolate to 10 over 3 limpers, it really is a complete crapshoot.

    In 2/5 games I open to 15 in reggy games, and 20 in blessed ones. So the game becomes a bit more of a "100BB online game" if you want to think of it that way. In reality live poker is completely different than online poker.

    And yeah the games really play like they're slightly higher in stakes. Say 10 is the standard raise, and convert that to "equivelant BB" by pretending its an open to 3x, it basically plays like a 1.50/3.00...its really more complicated than that though given theres straddles, and how often you see a flop multiway in good games. If you buy in for 200 it really becomes a preflop game.
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:42 AM   #83
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

You probably have sorry I mostly just skimmed some hh's lol.

I'm only too aware of the difference tween live and online from literally just 3 minutes at a Southend table, 1/2 plays like play money online basically. It's a bit of a wonder knowing which is more profitable in live whale cash, to come along in every multi-way pot with marginals or just nit it to TT+ AQ etc knowing a decent pay off should always be on the cards with top holdings. Tons of chips can wither away keep being forced into pots, especially since you can probably hardly ever get away with bluffing your way to some pots when you never hit.

What's your biggest downswing in terms of abi's? cheers
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:01 AM   #84
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

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You probably have sorry I mostly just skimmed some hh's lol.

I'm only too aware of the difference tween live and online from literally just 3 minutes at a Southend table, 1/2 plays like play money online basically. It's a bit of a wonder knowing which is more profitable in live whale cash, to come along in every multi-way pot with marginals or just nit it to TT+ AQ etc knowing a decent pay off should always be on the cards with top holdings. Tons of chips can wither away keep being forced into pots, especially since you can probably hardly ever get away with bluffing your way to some pots when you never hit.

Good question, unfortunately I could probably write volumes on this simple paragraph alone! I think ultimately it comes down to:

1. How deep you are (and the spot/s are)
2. How nitty/loose the table is
3. How good your odds are to see a flop in position

And yeah it does happen if you're peeling a lot in these deepstack games and bricking, part of the game unfortunately haha

What's your biggest downswing in terms of abi's? cheers
In a session probably about 1k (I generally call it a day unless the games particularly good). Over multiple sessions probably around 2k or so, but I wasnt playing as deep as I am now.
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Old 07-16-2016, 09:33 AM   #85
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

So like 4 buy-ins lifetime?? christ
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Old 07-18-2016, 08:59 AM   #86
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

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So like 4 buy-ins lifetime?? christ
You can't really convert a downswing to total buyins, especially at 1/2 due to the inherent flexibility of how much you're able to buy in for. There's also the notion that you get stacked for 500BB much less frequently than you would for the standard 150/200 BB.

---------------------------

Time for another update I think! In summary....

I've been playing a lot more 1/3 and 2/5 games. Naturally it has taken some time to adjust to the inevitable new dynamics and playing styles. Some other miscellaneous thoughts...
  • I love the fact that the most common PFR size is 3x/4x. Despite spending much more time playing live, I definitely have a better sense of awareness of what I can/can't overcall preflop in the BB for 3x/4x when the effective stack is 100BB+.
  • Generally I'm playing on the nittier side particularly vs other regs until I gain more experience with this stake. I don't think you can go far too wrong with a pseudo-GTO approach to spots until you can identify any particular tendencies
  • I usually just buy in for 100BB unless the table is particularly good

I've had a pretty good run recently... I put in a lot of volume over the weekend and walked away with 3.9k (I was in for 2k) . Saying that I might have been lucky a few times/turned or rivered the nuts...



Still not entirely happy with the way I've been playing recently. The main one being an inability to effectively hand-read. I still have an issue of not really putting villains/opponents on ranges, and making extremely sloppy bet sizes with little regard for what portions of villains ranges are elastic. Whether or not its nerves, or just being sloppy after sitting around waiting for premium hands in a shortish but decent (eff. stack circa 50BB) game, its something I need to address. This hand perfectly illustrates this fact:

Live 1/2. I open AK to 10 UTG, CO (150 eff, young uni guy, probably trying to get better but nevertheless a fish) calls.

Flop 766 Pot 23 I check, he checks
Turn K Pot 23 I bet 18, he calls
River 3 Pot 59, I bet 50 he calls.

OTT after the flop goes xx his range is air he's giving up with, PP's below a 7 and Kx. I should be just potting this two streets but instead I lazily make a 3/4psb OTT and just under pot it on the river. If I were to bet 25 OTT and bet all-in on the river I would have got the lot. Its a small pot, but these spots are the difference between a boss 20 and 10/hr ice cream hourly.

gl at the tables!

Last edited by acidhauss; 07-18-2016 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:33 PM   #87
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Nice thread with some good advice, loved the attack on "straddle nits". London is a great place to play poker, GL.
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Old 07-19-2016, 05:46 AM   #88
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Nice weekend bro!
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:01 AM   #89
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

very nice session man, wpwp
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:13 AM   #90
acidhauss
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

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Nice thread with some good advice, loved the attack on "straddle nits". London is a great place to play poker, GL.
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Nice weekend bro!
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very nice session man, wpwp
cheers boys! Good to see someone else agrees regarding time and place to put on the struddleeee (Y)

------------------------------------------

Spoke with my boss today RE: taking 3 months off. I'll have to give a months notice, which ties in quite nicely with my September-December trial period of playing live full-time.

I'm feeling a bit trepidatious, but have a roll healthy enough to take whatever live poker throws at me (famous last words). I think I'll need to game select a bit better whenever there's a 2/5 on too, whereas before as a recreational player theres no real danger taking a shot as I don't rely on my roll.

My BRM is going to be a somewhat conservative 30BI, but I have other income from my FT job; in essence unless I punt it off at 1kNL+ PB games it can't go too wrong (???).

Also, any tips for become a "professional" poker player? (It all sounds a bit smug using those exact words). I think after speaking about this more formally with some other regs its a good idea to set goals; naturally the LSQ/Vic cash races are ideal to base these goals about. Any tips/advice/wisdom thats not your typical BRM advice etc included within every harrington book would be appreciated.

glgl!
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:08 AM   #91
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Best of luck man!
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Old 07-19-2016, 11:24 AM   #92
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

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Also, any tips for become a "professional" poker player? (It all sounds a bit smug using those exact words). I think after speaking about this more formally with some other regs its a good idea to set goals; naturally the LSQ/Vic cash races are ideal to base these goals about. Any tips/advice/wisdom thats not your typical BRM advice etc included within every harrington book would be appreciated.
I think it depends what your goals actually are. Definately do not set financial goals like "I want to win xxx a month" etc, these are bad for multiple reasons. The goals you want to set as a professional are to always play your best, always put a good amount of volume in in good games and to make those games pleasant for the rec players. Recs are not stupid, do not aggressively change seats to bum hunt, do not try and be their best friend (they know why you are doing this) and do not patronise. Also clearly do not berate or get angry with them when you lose or call them out for doing dumb things. I have seen some of the younger grinders in London do that stuff and it is so incredibly dumb. I even think talking strategy or whatever at the table is not a great idea, I mean it is unavoidable sometimes as post mortems always occur after big hands but try and avoid it as it can intimidate the weaker players a bit.

In a live casino environment I think its important to try and have some people skills as well. Do tip the dealers and waitresses, you dont have to be rich and flashing the cash but just always remember them - its much better to be liked in every card room than be known as a nit who never tips - regardless of short term EV. It can definitely come back to help you in other ways. Don't be a nit regarding straddling, do it every time in good games or at least games where recs are doing it also. Do be a nit regarding your "rakeback" ie cash races and points. Get into every single one every month and maximise the points. Use all the rake free promotions around London if you can, they are worth a lot. If you go to Palm Beach make an effort clothes wise and dont bum hunt.

One thing I will say about being a professional poker player, which I never read in any poker book or any poker forum but which I wish I had known right from the very start is it is a very good idea to substantially wise up financially right now. Nobody is going to look after your financial well being in this job so you had better start doing so yourself. Keep your bankroll in the highest interest paying current accounts - Not on f***ing deposit in the casino (lol). This takes a bit of fiddling in the UK but you can get 5-4% risk free on your br as you describe it. If you end up making good money year on year allow yourself the baller purchases but also learn about investing some of it, you will get lifetime returns that eclipse almost anything you can do at poker - and it will make you rich in the future.

I don't really think 30 buy ins is "enough" as in I think you will go through a downswing bigger than that at some point but you have income from another source so as long as your living expenses are covered no matter what 30BI is fine.

Taking a few months off to pursue a life dream is a great idea, I hope it works out and you keep this thread updated with your progress.

Spoiler:


P.S. Dont play table games ldo, and don't let ego/arrogance get you into bad spots, see it time and time again from good players.
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Old 07-21-2016, 06:36 AM   #93
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Quote:
Originally Posted by SootedPowa View Post
I think it depends what your goals actually are. Definately do not set financial goals like "I want to win xxx a month" etc, these are bad for multiple reasons. The goals you want to set as a professional are to always play your best, always put a good amount of volume in in good games and to make those games pleasant for the rec players. Recs are not stupid, do not aggressively change seats to bum hunt, do not try and be their best friend (they know why you are doing this) and do not patronise. Also clearly do not berate or get angry with them when you lose or call them out for doing dumb things. I have seen some of the younger grinders in London do that stuff and it is so incredibly dumb. I even think talking strategy or whatever at the table is not a great idea, I mean it is unavoidable sometimes as post mortems always occur after big hands but try and avoid it as it can intimidate the weaker players a bit.

In a live casino environment I think its important to try and have some people skills as well. Do tip the dealers and waitresses, you dont have to be rich and flashing the cash but just always remember them - its much better to be liked in every card room than be known as a nit who never tips - regardless of short term EV. It can definitely come back to help you in other ways. Don't be a nit regarding straddling, do it every time in good games or at least games where recs are doing it also. Do be a nit regarding your "rakeback" ie cash races and points. Get into every single one every month and maximise the points. Use all the rake free promotions around London if you can, they are worth a lot. If you go to Palm Beach make an effort clothes wise and dont bum hunt.

One thing I will say about being a professional poker player, which I never read in any poker book or any poker forum but which I wish I had known right from the very start is it is a very good idea to substantially wise up financially right now. Nobody is going to look after your financial well being in this job so you had better start doing so yourself. Keep your bankroll in the highest interest paying current accounts - Not on f***ing deposit in the casino (lol). This takes a bit of fiddling in the UK but you can get 5-4% risk free on your br as you describe it. If you end up making good money year on year allow yourself the baller purchases but also learn about investing some of it, you will get lifetime returns that eclipse almost anything you can do at poker - and it will make you rich in the future.

I don't really think 30 buy ins is "enough" as in I think you will go through a downswing bigger than that at some point but you have income from another source so as long as your living expenses are covered no matter what 30BI is fine.

Taking a few months off to pursue a life dream is a great idea, I hope it works out and you keep this thread updated with your progress.

Spoiler:


P.S. Dont play table games ldo, and don't let ego/arrogance get you into bad spots, see it time and time again from good players.
Great advice.
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Old 07-21-2016, 08:47 AM   #94
super_k90
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Great thread mate! I take trips to London quite frequently and tend to play at the Hippo quite a lot. Will have to make sure your not grinding 1/2 when I go down next so you don't take my roll! Keep up the great work bud.
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Old 07-21-2016, 08:46 PM   #95
acidhauss
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Quote:
Originally Posted by SootedPowa View Post
I think it depends what your goals actually are. Definately do not set financial goals like "I want to win xxx a month" etc, these are bad for multiple reasons. The goals you want to set as a professional are to always play your best, always put a good amount of volume in in good games and to make those games pleasant for the rec players. Recs are not stupid, do not aggressively change seats to bum hunt, do not try and be their best friend (they know why you are doing this) and do not patronise. Also clearly do not berate or get angry with them when you lose or call them out for doing dumb things. I have seen some of the younger grinders in London do that stuff and it is so incredibly dumb. I even think talking strategy or whatever at the table is not a great idea, I mean it is unavoidable sometimes as post mortems always occur after big hands but try and avoid it as it can intimidate the weaker players a bit.

Yeah, agree on not trying to make $x.k a month. I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I think trying to smash all the cash races will be a good tangible goal, and be good motivation for putting in a lot of volume.

I 100% agree regarding making the games pleasant; you're definitely preaching to the choir regarding some younger grinders. Some of them can be extremely intimidating, and really henry-hoover the atmosphere out of a game.

To be honest I probably go out of my way a bit too much to make games fun i.e. have a slightly negative effect on my hourly. In general I don't mind though as it makes the grind more enjoyable, and I meet a ton of interesting folks all the time at the tables. In particular I'm really glad you mentioned "trying to be their best friend"; I probably sway that way, but I never offer alcoholic drinks and always give space/be quiet after a big pot theyre involved with."


In a live casino environment I think its important to try and have some people skills as well. Do tip the dealers and waitresses, you dont have to be rich and flashing the cash but just always remember them - its much better to be liked in every card room than be known as a nit who never tips - regardless of short term EV. It can definitely come back to help you in other ways. Don't be a nit regarding straddling, do it every time in good games or at least games where recs are doing it also. Do be a nit regarding your "rakeback" ie cash races and points. Get into every single one every month and maximise the points. Use all the rake free promotions around London if you can, they are worth a lot. If you go to Palm Beach make an effort clothes wise and dont bum hunt.

^^. Generally I use this rule of thumb with tipping http://www.crushlivepoker.com/articles/tipping.


One thing I will say about being a professional poker player, which I never read in any poker book or any poker forum but which I wish I had known right from the very start is it is a very good idea to substantially wise up financially right now. Nobody is going to look after your financial well being in this job so you had better start doing so yourself. Keep your bankroll in the highest interest paying current accounts - Not on f***ing deposit in the casino (lol). This takes a bit of fiddling in the UK but you can get 5-4% risk free on your br as you describe it. If you end up making good money year on year allow yourself the baller purchases but also learn about investing some of it, you will get lifetime returns that eclipse almost anything you can do at poker - and it will make you rich in the future.

Yeah I've been nagged about this for ages regarding storing my BR, I absolutely deserve the s******s of anyone moderately astute financially. I plan on looking through money supermarket at some point to pick an account. I've never been a life nit (absolutely not a needle/criticism), and this is defo something I need to work on.

I don't really think 30 buy ins is "enough" as in I think you will go through a downswing bigger than that at some point but you have income from another source so as long as your living expenses are covered no matter what 30BI is fine.

Taking a few months off to pursue a life dream is a great idea, I hope it works out and you keep this thread updated with your progress.

Spoiler:


Thanks again! You sound like you have a lot of experience playing here; I always have 10x more respect for the grinders I know who've been around for years here living off the games. Appreciate the support, tbh to clarify its just a 3 month jolly in reality but I'm really excited about discovering the frustrations/benefits of playing full-time rather than punting it up/down in weekdays and on weekend binges.

P.S. Dont play table games ldo, and don't let ego/arrogance get you into bad spots, see it time and time again from good players.

Goes without saying.
What a fantastic post - really appreciate you writing all this out. Extremely comprehensive with lots of good advice that I'd recommend to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by super_k90 View Post
Great thread mate! I take trips to London quite frequently and tend to play at the Hippo quite a lot. Will have to make sure your not grinding 1/2 when I go down next so you don't take my roll! Keep up the great work bud.
Thanks bud! Pro tip, fold when I raise in a straddled 1/2 pot UTG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie4444 View Post
Great advice.
^^^
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Old 07-21-2016, 09:07 PM   #96
acidhauss
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Time for another quick update I think..

As I mentioned above, I've handed in my notice. Really looking forward to it, with a tiny hint of trepidation. Its a long time since I've done something adventurous/risky, and I think I'll look back on this as a good thing in say 5 years time. I've got plenty of things to get done, so I'll probably cut down my volume until I'm finally out the door.

Generally the games have been decent this week, although today was quieter than usual for a Thursday. Even in bad/mediocre games there is still value to be had though if you pay attention to what people show-down after limping/isoing/raising OTB.

I have some spots to share coming up...hands I played badly included
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Old 07-21-2016, 09:51 PM   #97
wj294
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Are you planning on heading to the Goliath at all? The tournament itself is obviously pretty bad with such a massive field and a poor structure on day 2+3 but the cash games running last year were really good in my experience. There were lots of players who were treating it as a weekend away/holiday of sorts meaning plenty of drunk people and top quality games. I'd definitely recommend a trip up north if you weren't considering going already.

Good luck playing full time, it's always a nice motivator seeing someone make that step and truly embrace the grind, I'll be sure to follow along for updates.
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:54 AM   #98
acidhauss
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Quote:
Originally Posted by wj294 View Post
Are you planning on heading to the Goliath at all? The tournament itself is obviously pretty bad with such a massive field and a poor structure on day 2+3 but the cash games running last year were really good in my experience. There were lots of players who were treating it as a weekend away/holiday of sorts meaning plenty of drunk people and top quality games. I'd definitely recommend a trip up north if you weren't considering going already.

Good luck playing full time, it's always a nice motivator seeing someone make that step and truly embrace the grind, I'll be sure to follow along for updates.

Thanks for the recommendation! While a trip up North is on the cards (terrible pun unintended), I think I'm going to keep it all small-scale during this trial period.

This includes playing tournaments; I simply don't have enough knowledge to think my EV in these is greater/equal to that of the equivelant cash game grind. My results in my last few shots have not been good, and BRM-wise are not particularly sensible.

Thanks for trhe kind words, hope you're enjoying reading along!

------------------------------------

Time for a quick update; nothing too eventful-grind wise, on the life-front I'm going through the typical stages of regret/worrying/sadness following leaving a job.*

That being said, I doubt theres a single pro (live or otherwise) gone through these feelings during their transition. I find the best way to manage this stage is to simply reiterate the reasons behind my decision:

1. I've been stagnating in my current role, and have been pondering this decision for quite some time i.e. it is not a rushed decision.

2. I'm in my mid-late twenties; I simply don't want to drift into my thirties/fourties and always wonder what could have been.

3. I have a large network of friends, whom are probably some of the most successful live pros in these games. I actually think this reason gives me the most confidence in my decision.

4. To enjoy the flexibility associted with being a live poker play, and to experience the challenges aasociated with this 'career' i.e. applying principles many small business owners would.

5. I have a bankroll sufficient enough to take enough hits during the upcoming 3 months, in the event that it all goes wrong not too much harm can be done. That being said I'm less cocky about this following sootedpandas great post.

6. And ultimately, because I simply love the game of poker and the 'working environment'. I don't think I know anyone as willing as me in my current stakes to put in the off-table work, or will to break down your game/opponents to find fundamental frequencies to exploit (e.g. double barrelling dry Axx boards for two small bets results in the average live player overfolding).
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:48 AM   #99
Labax
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

LFG OP LFG

I'm heading up to London on Monday for a bit mainly to see some friends but may dabble in some live poker (likely at Aspers though, gonna play some degenaments).

In regards to tournaments though are there any others places in London you'd recommend weekly sched wise.

Your attitude seems great by the way. Best of luck
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:35 PM   #100
Whatalife333
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Re: London Live 1/2 2/5 Grind

Are you going to be a live mtt pro? Think you were practising your short stack play the other night.

Gl with becoming a live pro. Let us know how long it takes before you wanna kill yourself
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