Well most of the games in SoCal at the next level are 3-5 with a $200 buy in. These games are pretty much the same story as $40NL since the drop is $6.

Roughly $162 an hr gets dropped. That's almost an entire person's stack every hr. I'd say you could probably beat it for maybe $10/hr at the very best.

I think the first level where you can make ok money is the 5-5 games where it's either 300-500 buy in or 300-1000 depending on where you play. Because the games play deeper.

But even that to make a living is relatively meager. IMO you really have to be grinding 5/10 especially if you're living in SoCal w/ the higher cost of living and everything.

Hey guys, October update so far. I didn't play that much because I had to study for a professional exam which I ended up failing anyway. I think I put something around 30-40 hours so far and it's a week before the end of the month. Was running good and was up a little over $300 and now I'm on a downswing and I'm down like $80 for the month. Pretty huge swing for that game. Can't say it's all do to the cards, my play has been pretty bad as of late, crying calls with mediocre holdings, playing longer than I should when the table gets bad, forcing the issue when I'm card dead. I also realize I have somewhat of a mental game issue. When I'm on a heater and I'm playing good, making good folds, bluffs, value bets, i get over excited about the possibilities of building my roll and moving into higher limits, because my confidence is high and I feel invincible. I can't sleep, daydream about hands, and surf 2+2 for strategy and advice. It's actually kind of unhealthy because I've developed this really nasty sleeping pattern. So you can imagine what the downswings are like, I torture myself at the mistakes I made, and i question myself all day long and whether I'm just wasting time here. Maybe I am? But I truly believe deep down inside I have what it takes to win at poker, maybe not become Phil Ivey, but I feel I could beat the game for a healthy profit. As of late, I think my sessions are too long, my play quickly deteriorates after about 3 hours or so, especially if I'm card dead and I see people getting paid off with the nuts and bust some fish i was waiting for all night. So, my current game plan is to stick to what worked for me in August. Tight, aggressive, ABC poker with a few off the wall plays here and there. It will tend to be hit and run poker caused that's basically what I did in August. I notice that, even when my game is sharp and I play for a long time, I've never really won more than $300 a session. But my profit in August came from playing short sessions and locking in $100 plus wins and also not cashing out ZERO. My losing sessions had some money leftover and I also had a lot more break even sessions. That formula worked in August so I'm going to try and recreate it from here on out.

I will also be updating more regularly, I've been really lazy about that, and I need to thoroughly review my hands and what better way than to post on here and get the expert advice of you folks.

Also, regarding the emotional swings tied to the ups and downs, by playing shorter sessions I'll have less swings and lower my emotional swings. I will also try to keep in mind an interview I heard once from Dirk Nowitzki in the 2011 finals when the Mavs beat the Heat. If I remember correctly, his team was down considerably in one of the games, like 15-20 points going into the fourth quarter and they came back to win. The post game interviewer asked him how they were able to maintain their composure and come back and he said, "Well, you can't get too high with the highs when you're up big, and you can't get too low with the lows when you're down big, you just got to stay focused and take it one play at a time." Brilliant.

Thanks for the post Spyutastic, much appreciated. I agree with you and everyone else who has advised me to take shots at higher limits. because after grinding this limit for a few months now, I feel like it might now be enough and too slow of a bankroll growth before I can really start to make money and take some shots at some tournaments. However, even from the small sample size I have so far, IMHO, this limit can be beaten for 10-15 an hour, judging from the juicyness at this limit. If I can make $1000-$1200 a month grinding 80 hours, it will suffice for the next year or so when my bankroll grows. I do want to get acquainted with the higher limits so I'm going to play the 80-120 at the bike on weekends, and if I crack my goal of $1000 in a month, I will reward myself by sitting maybe once in the beginning of the following month on a weekend night at the 2-3 (100-300 buy-in). I really wish my roll was bigger but this is all I have to work with now, it actually took another hit when I had a life bad beat, had to pull out $550 from bankroll for auto repairs. Thanks again.

Here's a hand where I think I messed up on,
2 limpers in front of me and I'm in late position with K8 and I limp in. Maybe my 1st mistake but the table is full of passive fish that stack off or payoff big if they have a decent part of the board so I limp in looking to flop a monster. The small and big blind complete.

Flop ($10-3.50 rake=$6.50) 782
Early limper leads for 6
The bettor is a guy that plays lots of hands and likes to bet towards his draws and he tends to call big raises chasing also. I decide to take the low variance route and call, wait for a safe card on the turn, and bet heavy for value if it bricks. I call 6, and to my surprise, small blind and big blind call.

Turn ($30.50) 4

It's checked around to me and I think for a few seconds and bet $14. Here's why I bet so weak, I didn't count the pot and I only had like $55 before the bet so I didn't want to commit in case small & big blind had something weird like a weird 2 pair or someone just made their straight with 5-6. So I bet for value with a plan to fold if I get raised. Everyone has me covered except the small blind. Everyone calls and big blind makes a somewhat reluctant call.

River ($86.50) 6

Probably the worst card in the deck to come out. Small blind goes all-in for like $32, big blind calls, and other player calls. Obviously an easy fold for me. small blind shows, 9-5 for a straight, big blind shows 6-6 for a set, and early limper shows 9-10 for the nut straight.

In retrospect, I think raising on the flop would have been good, and definitely betting bigger or jamming on the turn, I felt everyone was sort of weak on the turn with all the checks but I wasn't that confident to bet out the draws.

October sucks, I've been running bad and I don't think I've been playing my A game as much as I could of. Down like $500 this month. I sure hope November will be better. By the way, I will be taking shots at the $200 buy in at commerce in Nov. and I will update.

Played in my first tournament at the Bike today this year. It was the quantum reload tournament where the first 4 rounds are 55 minutes long so I played tight. Maybe a little too nitty. I just couldn't get anything going, my moves ran into big hands and my decent hands ran into bigger hands. I won a race with A-Q against 2-2 to stay alive as long as I could. Then started blinding away and ran A-J into A-Q to bust out. This tournament was full of dead money though, first few minutes I saw a player get uber aggressive with 7-2 off after flopping bottom pair. People calling off their stacks with flush draws on 4th street. Even though I didn't do that well, and I felt like I played a little too passive and careful, I feel confident I can do well in these low buy-in tournaments. September started off good with 3 winning sessions straight and my first losing session today and $70 donked in this tournament.

Here you should raise or fold. That way you have the initiative post-flop and most likely secure the button.

Calling to "flop a monster" is not a good strategy because most of the time you will flop nothing or something mediocre at best.

Good luck to you in your grind.

Thanks. I'm going to need it. I agree that I probably should have came in for a raise here. But given Commerce's stupid capped buy in a raise would be a significant percentage of my stack and I wanted to get in cheap. I wasn't wrong about the fish stacking off with lesser hands, a flush completed on the river and everyone still got in their stacks with straights and a set. Too bad I didn't have the K-8 of clubs.

I have read through your post and am impressed that you are so determined. I also think you are ahead of the curve by having an actual plan on how to improve your skill and move up as your bankroll builds. One theme that I took away from what you wrote was that you believe that there is a certain code or style that will be the key to winning. I agree that ABC is probably a good choice for the stakes you are playing. If you do wish to move to the next level however, you will have to realize that a mix of LAG and TAG is the most profitable style. Playing ABC will rarely get you big wins, especially against thinking players. You also mentioned that your play sometimes deteriorates after a few hours. I would suggest two things that have helped me tremendously. Jared Tendler gives some great advice on how to deal with tilt. He puts things in perspective very well. He has some free videos on youtube. The second thing I would suggest is focusing on play while you are not in hands. Try to develop reads on lines people are taking, and also try and pick up on physical tells they may give off. Focus on the most active player first. Joe Navarro has written some great stuff on tells. Keep up the hard work.

I just read through this entire thread and commend you for patiently grinding up your bankroll before moving up. I know LA can be a very tough place to grind as I played for 2+ years, mostly at the Commerce, Bike and HGC.

Keep your BRM strategies as you should do what feels comfortable with you.

Turnitup started a thread about a year ago, and he started with about a 3k bankroll grinding those same exact games you are in LA as well. He seems very solid minded like you in the sense that you both want a less chance of ruin, even if it means grinding small stakes until you build up a safe enough BR to take shots or play the bigger games.

Just curious what is your current BR?

Keep it up the good grind OP!

And in case you want to check out the thread started by Turnitup its:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...012-a-1097674/


Good luck

Yes, I find myself torn sometimes between the type of style I want to play. Sometimes, I feel I play too tight and I don't get enough action on my big hands. i guess I should just table select better. I ain't gonna lie, naturally, I'm pretty nitty. At the 40 no limit at Commerce, you don't really need to mix it up too much, people just give you so much action, and I believe bluffing frequently is negative expected value at that game. However, I think I'm more than capable of mixing it up, but here's the thing, I haven't really learned how to deal with the variance yet. I'm more comfortable with a nitty style because it's low variance, it's good for my bankroll, and frankly, i'm kind of lazy and would rather play more straightforward instead of expending energy to get creative at a game that's not that much more positive ev to be creative, IMHO. The buy-in structure and limit just doesn't really allow for it, people aren't playing meta-mind games with each other at this limit. You're right though, at the higher limits, my style is very exploitable. What I'm doing is occasionally mixing it up and being more aggressive at tight tables and small buy-in tournaments so I can get use to making plays.

I've read Jared's book. It is the nuts dude. probably one of the most extensive examinations of "tilt" ever written. he really does get the psychology of tilt and breaks down everything for you. One thing I notice was I still tilt sometimes from "mistake tilt", and I slowly learned to not be so hard on myself and forgive myself for the mistakes, and most important, learn from it and try not to repeat it.

Thanks man. I'll check out that guy's thread when I get a chance. My BR is not looking to good right now. Not because of poker, but just from mismanagement and life bad beats. I'd occasionally splurge on dinner out and I had to pull out of my roll to pay for emergency stuff like car repairs. Overall since I started this endeavor, I'm up about $1500 over a four month period and about 250+ hours or so. I honestly am starting to get pretty burnt out. I feel like I'm just wasting a lot of time. i think I am making progress but my bankroll is not showing it. I had to take a professional exam for this job I"m trying to get and I didn't pass because poker took up so much time. Whenever I tried to study I would just daydream and start thinking about hands i played. Lol. My girlfriend says I"m addicted, maybe I am. Thanks for reading the thread and support, I'm still going keep grinding and I'll post updates. How did your grind here in LA go? what games and casino did you prefer?

Just read through the thread and wanted to advocate for the $2/3 NLH game at The Bike. If you want buy in at the minimum and grind the game. The food is free and at times when the stacks get deep it plays like a 2/5 game.

Any updates OP?

I don't know how you play the $40. I think it would tilt me too. You are so short and it is so easy to get committed to a pot. I agree that bluffing would be very rare, and against non-thinking players gambling for an amount they probably don't care about losing. I am sure you already know this, but given the drop in these games your winrate is getting raped. You are much better off even short stacking a 2/3 or 3/5 game. I actually think they are easier to beat. I sometimes play in a home game that you might be interested in here on the West side. It is close to LAX. It is called The Garage. No rake, you just tip the dealer; .50/1 blinds 60-300 buyin(most buyin for 120ish). The level of play is actually very high for such a low stakes game, but there is good action most nights. Feel free to PM me if you want.

Back from the Dead

What's up everyone! Almost abandoned this thread but I'm back. So here's what happened:

1) Realized playing the 40nl at commerce was a complete waste of time, (like everyone on here was trying to tell me, sorry I was too stupid to listen.) Ended up grinding like $4 an hour and went on a bad run and just took a break from poker for awhile. Plus, the degenerates at commerce just tilt the sh%t out of me.

2) Started to play again just recently, mainly home games, and been building a roll to try and sustain this for me to play part time. Since August, I've won just under $2k playing mainly NL $.25/$.50 and $.50/$1. However, my poor bankroll management and life beats have taken from the winnings. So I'm back on the grind......hosting a home game later tonight.

I've been working on my career actually and have been job hunting, studying for professional exams, and still working part time. I just want to use this poker thing to bring in a small side income to help me pay rent. Going to get back on it, will post some hands and going to come up with clear cut goals soon.

Your main mistake was pre-flop. The raising range of your typical OMC when UTG crushes AQ.

Good TAG play pre-flop is not a matter of waiting for the right card combinations, it's waiting got the right situations.

As for short stack buy-ins and failure to cap off when your stack size shrinks, this is another leak. You aren't playing a lot of hands. Maximize the win potential of the few hands you do play.

A couple nights ago, I lost $300 in a bad beat hand, and my $600 buy-in shrank to $300. I immediately pulled three black chips out of my pocket. Two orbits later, when I'd built that stack to $800, I tripled up on an all in with pocket aces against two villains. Those three extra chips added $600 to my profit, because I fought the urge to lick my wounds and play short for awhile.

Hosted a home game tonight, won a little over $200. There was lots of action. We switched rounds between PLO and NL with the blinds being $.25/$.50 for Omaha and $.50/$1 for Holdem. I feel like I played pretty well today but I did make some mistakes. So here goes:

Hand 1:

V1: (60) Strong LAG (sometimes tricky)

Hero: (80) Image (TAG)

I'm UTG + 2 and I'm feeling frisky with 108. It's early in the night and some players haven't arrived yet so we're 6 handed, decided to up my aggression tonight because I played like a p*&sy the night before and was getting man handled by a lot of these same players. I put in a raise to $4 and get called by one villain directly behind me.

Flop: ($9.5) 7910

I bet $5 and V1 calls.

Turn: ($19.50) Q

I bet $6( I know, looking back, this bet screams weakness and fear, I think $9-$12 would be better) anyhow, he just calls. Lucky for me, he didn't try to exploit this.

River: ($31.50) 5

I feel good about my hand, I check to induce a bluff because I put him on a draw from the get-go. Villain obliges and bets $16.50. I think about it for a bit and the only hand I'm kind of worried about is q-k or q-j but he's the type to probably raise the hand with q-j on the flop and if this is a value bet I think he would be smaller. I call and villain shows 64 for a missed flushed draw.


Hand 2:

V1: ($75) LAG but can change gears

V2: ($150) LAG but rarely changes gears and is hyper aggressive sometimes

Hero: ($300) (Image: TAG) but have been playing a little loose.
QQA5

I'm UTG so I limp hoping to just flat a small raise and see a flop or re-raise depending on villain and players. (Probably my 1st mistake). It gets all the way around with like 8 callers and we see a flop with no raise:

Flop: ($4) KQJ

I lead out for the pot(probably my second mistake), it's folded around to V2 who raises the pot (now has $24), it's folded to V1 who raises another $30 (pot=$54)...... I know there is a chance V2 might re-raise but my dumb@ss calls anyway. My hand was just way too pretty for me to fold or think logically. Surprise!, V1 raises all in for the rest of his chips like $55. Another surprise, V2 ships it for like $133 . .......... I've lost track but I'm probably getting a little less than 2 to 1 (my third mistake probably). I know either both or just one of them has got broadway. I fall in love with my hand, 9 outs to the nuts and 6 outs to a full house that I feel very strong about holding up and not to mention another 3 outs after the turn for a full and maybe 2 tens to a chop. I can't fold. I call...

Turn : Blank

River: Blank

V2 shows nut straight and V1 lower flush Draw with 2 pair.


This was a ****ty hand but felt overall pretty good about how I played for the night... I will post another hand where I think I over-bet and missed out on value on 5th street. Tired now... will post tomorrow.

Okay, so here is another hand from that night.

V1: ($140) Fishy Loose and has a hard time folding hands.

V2: ($75) LAG with spewy tendencies

Hero: ($230) Image is solid TAG

I open in early position with 44 to $4(Blinds are $.50/$1). I get two callers and V2 has the button.

Flop: ($13.50) AK4

Gin! I flop a set with 2 overs and this is definitely within their pre-flop flatting an open raise range. I bet $12, which come to think of it is kind of big, in live poker this usually seems real big, especially a home game. Both players call.

Turn: ($49.50) 5

About the sweetest card I came hope for. However, I feel a strong urge to protect my hand, (I know....so abc ish super system style). I over-bet the pot with $45, and both players fold. Obviously a huge mistake, maybe driven by fear of having to come to a tough decision if a heart hits. I missed out on value from any ace and could have charged a little cheaper if either one of them had a flush draw.There is only one card to come. So help me out with my bet-sizing, what would of been optimal for win-rate?

Agreed. OMC's range had me dominated preflop, should have just folded.

As far as the reloading thing, I agree with you %100. Since I've been playing home games I reload often when I'm short stack. Definitely much more room to maneuver and you don't feel so committed after calling a raise or two. Thanks for the advice, I will keep posting hands so feel free to critique my future hands as well.

Abandoned this thread for a few years, just came back to reading it, wow things have changed. I have a decent job now, albeit not all stable. For now I plan to play part time, possibly on weekends and use this thread as a sort of a hand history log for record and studying purposes. The main game I will play will be 2-3 blinds, HG, Commerce, and San Manuel will probably be most visited poker rooms.

Glad that your life is more stable and satisfying now.

I just don't know how people can beat the drop at LA Casino. $5 every single pot is a killer. I can never win with these stupid games. I stick with Tourney in LA, and go to Vegas for cash games.

Good luck to u.