No raise in ep. Its maybe a call deep in lp.

Run equities and you will see that you are almost always getting the right price preflop. Its post flop equities and how you connect and is it to the nuts that matters.

I think i misread the post at first. This guy is pretty much always going with his hand here so why would you want to get all-in pre in a spot where its hard to have him crushed?

^ I think the post is pretty clear, maybe re-read it? I only need 40% AIPF equity when I get 3-bet due to dead money, vs a top 10% range I have 45% so it's a shove. The only question is if the shorty actually has a top 10% range or if he's tighter... However I agree I shouldn't be open-raising in the first place with that hand.

Played 7 hours today, won 1 huge pot for ~$1500 early off one of my favorite regs to play with (even though he's a pro, very nice/fun guy) with QQxx on Q72 two-tone, I think I oversetted him, not sure. Other than that, pretty uneventful... lost a flip to a shorty, then had this hand:

Some guy raises to $25, 6 people call including myself with 8654 on BTN.

Flop 732, pot $175
Checked to me, I bet $155, 1 caller who peels fairly light and plays about 90% VPIP preflop.

Turn 2, pot $485
check/check.

River 4, pot $485
check/check, MHIG. Did I miss value somewhere in this hand or is this a standard checkback on the turn and river? Do I call if he leads river?

Up $603 in 7 hours.

LA total: $44313, 327 hours.

You have a crappy flush on paired board, I think checking the turn is fine. Might be able to put in a small value bet otr, checking behind isnt that bad though.

I was going to say bet river but just saw board pair. For sure check behind both streets. Fold if he bets river.

A985ds is fine. Since you are ds it's hard to ever make a huge mistake pre vs shorties especially if the calling shorties will make a big mistake and fold pre.

The thing about the a985 hand is that at best you have a 4.6% edge. This is vs a 10% range.

You can get in much better spots for sure in this game. I think its a fold ep and a call lp deep. But i am trying to tighten my plo range from ep.

In the hand where I turned the 8-high flush, villain showed AA before mucking.

I think I can definitely limp it since there are big fish at the table who play 99% VPIP and will lose their entire stack if they get overflushed. Raising accomplishes nothing except building a pot with a mediocre hand out of position so my play was bad.

I agree it's a fold at a tough table but if that ever was the case I would just instantly get up and leave or go play NLHE.

I don't really understand what your point is that I can get in much better spots, I agree there are better spots (and I do take them obv!) but no reason to pass up on this one. I feel like it's as if you were at a fair where they're giving away free stuff and someone tells you "dude don't take that t-shirt, there's a guy up there giving away a free stuffed panda". Why not take both?

In this specific situation that occurs after I get 3-bet, a 4.6% edge to win ~$1100, that's $50 of EV. That's a lot!

(for the record, free stuffed panda > free t-shirt AINEC)

Thanks for the comments guys!

Definitely not folding pre. I think limping is far superior, don't tell anybody else that though. They won't understand.

subbed

135/hr seems sustainable

Aesah - I clicked on LATB last night for ~10 minutes, but didn't see you at the table? Did you pass on it last night?

If the table is bad then playing the hand is whatever. You have nit draw hands so its ok. But limping is better than opening. In theory i like to fold but in play, i am playing this.

But to push a 4.5% edge at best preflop for all your chips doesnt seem great to me. I would be interested if you posted this in the hi stakes plo forum.

Short update from phone.

Wasnt able to get a seat on LATB. Oh well PLO was better anyway.

I was down $1700 but I forgot that I was up $2k more in Commerce chips I got the day before.

Regarding the A985ds hand, not sure if you guys are misreading the action but after I get jammed on, I have to jam at that point. Yes I was only in that situation due to a previous mistake but at that point it's either fold for $0 or jam for $50. There's no question that jamming is better unless we think BB is much tighter than 10%.

I suppose I can flat to encourage multiway action?? Is that better? I figured the dead money is better.

If everyone else folds though I'll have SPR<.25 which makes no difference, although someone did try a 1/8 PSB river bluff shove vs. me yesterday. I almost folded too because who the hell bluffs there lol.

LA total: $44613, 333 hours.

Biggest hand of the day:

Rich guy's first hand, straddles to $20 and announces he's buying in for minimum $300 and shoving blind... although we don't really believe him, there's a chance! V immediately behind him raises to $50, I flat from SB with AdAc4s2s, rich guy flats. I lead for $125 into $150 on a 7s6s2h flop, V calls, rich guy folds. Turn is Jd, I bet $400 and V jams for $1150 more... I called and hit a 4-high flush on the river and he mucked.

Villain is a much better PLO player than me but I heard he's been playing over 24 hours and massively stuck + trying to get even, so I thought he could be getting it in light. No idea though... spew?!?!

Also had a hand where same villain mucked the nut straight on JsTs9d2c with a 2-pair redraw where I led, he flatted, 3rd guy potted to ~$900 with nut straight/no redraw (almost all in), I repotted to $3k with nut straight + flush draw. That was somewhat interesting.

Up $3425 in 7 hours.

LA total: $48038, 340 hours.

The first hand sounds like a hand you played in January on your heater. I think it's pretty spewy. Sure your AA is under repped but you could be drawing effectively dead vs his range when you get it in on turn. But you run like god still so I wish you continued success and I am PLO noob so maybe your play is perfect.


Why not 3bet pre? Simply due to the I'm going all in comment?

I would never 3-bet in this spot ever, basically that would all but guarantee that I would go HU vs a good player OOP with SPR ~5. Even if it is profitable, it's only very marginally so in terms of bb/100.

That's not how you play live PLO, instead you let all the 90% VPIP fishies (more than half the table! was a good day) see a flop as cheap as possible then you stack them with whatever junk they somehow manage to call you with, such as chasing a "combo draw" which can be like middle pair with a gutshot after I lead for near pot into 5 players with top set. Much better in terms of bb/100!

I am not going to say what is better as a line but I want to include some more simulations with assumed ranges:

Preflop
AdAc4s2s HU vs 10% have=61.9%
4 ways vs 10%, 20%, 20%=30%


On the flop 7s6s2h
HU vs 10% range=72.2%
4 ways vs 10, 20, 20%=34%


Now you said let the fish call with combo draws. Ok, lets give one fish a combo draw of 8s9sJdKc (basically 8s9s is in play here, no wrap).

On the flop vs 8s9sJdKc, a 10% range hand, and a 20% range hand we have 24% equity (the 89jk has 40%).


(not sure why I made this 4 handed)!!!


I am not getting into pots and bet sizes and all of that, just basic equity right now.

Also, based on the HH, villian starts the hand with $1,725.

Preflop options from the SB:

Fold-never
Call-hero called
Pot-is it a good option?

If we pot it we can make it $185 but the key is what will the fish do here? If he auto pots it then we might be ok to get it back to us to pot it again and feel ok. If fish flats then we are going to be in some sort of trouble postflop is you think villian is better than you.

If we pot and get both calls then pot=$555. This leaves weird stack sizes to play the hand, especially with the fish having $115 left.




What I want to know is why you are willing to push +4.5% edges vs bad players but not push greater edges vs good player?

You're misunderstanding something here.

In the A985ds example, not talking about the open raise, only talking about what to do when 3-bet. There are basically only 2 options at this point: fold for $0, or shove for $50. Of course we don't know the actual number is $50, but assuming it's >$0 which I think is fair, it's very clear what to do. There is absolutely no question about it.

In the AA42 hand, making up some numbers here but let's just say I can fold for $0, 3-bet for $20 EV, or flat for $40 EV. So the act of me not-3-betting isn't because I'm passing up on an edge.

Going back to the "free stuff at the fair" example, the A985 hand is like where 1 guy offers you a free t-shirt and another guy offers you a free stuff Pikachu and you only take the Pikachu instead of taking both for some reason. The AA42 hand is like where 1 guy offers you a free t-shirt *or* a free stuffed Pikachu and you're only allowed to choose one.

Thank you for the comments cap217!

Where do you start learning the fundamentals of PLO? Jeff Hwangs book? PLO has really picked up here in Milwaukee and I'd love to get into it more.

My ex-girlfriend taught me. Never really read any books or anything.

haha is that a level?

Try videos by galfond, best way to learn the fundamentals. Best approach is break down the hands in groups. Galfond said he has yet to see any plo pre chart that was correct, that includes all books. Its just too many combos of hands. Expect to see a lot of flops multiway. Don't worry about trying to put your opponent on an exact range pre (unless of course its pot, pot). Learn to read peoples ranges do to the board and deduct more and more combos as the streets progress. PLO is definitely a postflop game. So you should focus on your overall and future line as well considering what your opponent will do. You definitely have to set up your opponent.

Nope. You can confirm it in this thread's Cleveland chapter in fact.

HUGE update coming soon.

Was playing at the bike and wanted to come over an say hey but then I realized it was a big boy game and didn't want to distract you. I also realized who was in the game and figured you wanted to focus up

Good luck!!