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The journey from Full Ring to 6max The journey from Full Ring to 6max

02-02-2018 , 10:20 AM
It's great to see a positive graph for a change! I hope the good results continue for you.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-02-2018 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
It's great to see a positive graph for a change! I hope the good results continue for you.
Cheers Arty. I did win 9 months out of 12 last year but overall my w/r was pathetically low. This is the first month of implementing some new post flop strat so Christ knows how February will end up

You thinking of making a return yet?
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-03-2018 , 10:06 PM
Some hands:

1) The biggest draws never get there

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

UTG ($37.37)
Button ($28.24)
SB ($25.10)
Hero (BB) ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 5
2 folds, SB raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) 6, 7, K (2 players)
SB bets $0.99, Hero raises to $2.97, SB raises to $7.45, Hero raises to $24.25 (All-In), SB calls $16.80

Turn: ($50) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($50) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50 | Rake: $1

SB had 9, 9 (two pair, Kings and nines).
Hero had 4, 5 (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: SB won $49


2) Fair play to villain for the shove with the nut flush blocker but his stats were very very aggro so I wasn't folding

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

SB ($35.60)
BB ($26.14)
UTG ($19.68)
MP ($25.35)
CO ($25)
Hero (Button) ($25.43)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 8
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.63, SB calls $0.53, BB calls $0.38

Flop: ($1.89) 7, 5, Q (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.91, SB calls $0.91, BB calls $0.91

Turn: ($4.62) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $2.80, 1 fold, BB calls $2.80

River: ($10.22) 10 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4.88, BB raises to $21.80 (All-In), Hero calls $16.21 (All-In)

Total pot: $52.40 | Rake: $2


Hero had 7, 8 (flush, Queen high).
BB had A, 3 (high card, Ace).
Outcome: Hero won $50.40

3) Sore one versus a 70 vpip whale

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (MP) ($28.72)
CO ($28.16)
Button ($47.52)
SB ($36.28)
BB ($25)
UTG ($29.44)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, J
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.62, 1 fold, Button calls $0.62, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.59) 10, 2, 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.91, Button calls $0.91

Turn: ($3.41) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.28, Button calls $2.28

River: ($7.97) A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3.75, Hero raises to $15, Button calls $11.25

Total pot: $37.97 | Rake: $1.71


Button had 4, K (flush, King high).
Hero had Q, J (flush, Queen high).
Outcome: Button won $36.26

4) Whale

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

SB ($26.68)
Hero (BB) ($30.31)
UTG ($51.06)
MP ($42.74)
CO ($25.25)
Button ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
UTG raises to $1.25, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5, UTG calls $3.75

Flop: ($10.10) J, 4, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, UTG raises to $12, Hero raises to $25.31 (All-In), UTG calls $13.31

Turn: ($60.72) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($60.72) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $60.72 | Rake: $2


Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and fours).
UTG had A, 7 (one pair, fours).
Outcome: Hero won $58.72


5) My flop sizing should've been smaller

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

MP ($19.39)
CO ($25)
Button ($35.26)
SB ($25.32)
Hero (BB) ($25)
UTG ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, CO raises to $1.75, Button calls $1.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, CO calls $4.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($14.10) 9, 9, K (2 players)
Hero bets $6.74, CO raises to $19 (All-In), Hero calls $12.26 (All-In)

Turn: ($52.10) 4 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($52.10) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $52.10 | Rake: $2


Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and nines).
CO had J, J (full house, Jacks over nines).
Outcome: CO won $50.10
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-07-2018 , 05:33 PM
Some hands

1) Bluffing a reg

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($36.64)
UTG ($24)
Hero (Button) ($25.97)
SB ($30.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, A
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.63, 1 fold, BB raises to $2.25, Hero calls $1.62

Flop: ($4.60) 8, 2, J (2 players)
BB bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

Turn: ($9.60) 10 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($9.60) 5 (2 players)
BB bets $4.58, Hero raises to $21.22 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $18.76 | Rake: $0.84


Hero didn't show Q, A (high card, Ace).



2) Wtf moment versus an aggro reg.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

SB ($25)
BB ($32.08)
UTG ($25)
MP ($22.43)
CO ($65.25)
Hero (Button) ($28.07)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, A
2 folds, CO raises to $0.62, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, CO calls $1.38

Flop: ($4.35) 3, 9, A (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.37, CO raises to $4.25, Hero calls $2.88

Turn: ($12.85) 5 (2 players)
CO bets $6.14, Hero calls $6.14

River: ($25.13) A (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $15.68 (All-In), CO calls $15.68

Total pot: $56.49 | Rake: $2


Hero had Q, A (three of a kind, Aces).
CO had Q, K (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $54.49


3) My betsizing's all over the place here. Should be smaller on the flop obviously. Helluva runout though

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

UTG ($32.94)
MP ($16.73)
CO ($20.02)
Button ($25)
SB ($25.10)
Hero (BB) ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
UTG raises to $0.75, 1 fold, CO calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4.50, 2 folds, Button calls $3.75

Flop: ($10.60) 2, 4, 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $5.06, Button calls $5.06

Turn: ($20.72) J (2 players)
Hero bets $6.53, Button calls $6.53

River: ($33.78) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $8.91 (All-In), Button calls $8.91 (All-In)

Total pot: $51.60 | Rake: $2


Button had 9, A (flush, Ace high).
Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and twos).
Outcome: Button won $49.60


4) Another Wtf moment, this time versus a fish

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

MP ($18.80)
Hero (CO) ($27.60)
Button ($22.83)
SB ($25.45)
BB ($25)
UTG ($13.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, 6
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.63, Button calls $0.63, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.61) A, 5, 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.77, Button calls $0.77

Turn: ($3.15) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75

River: ($6.65) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, Button raises to $19.68 (All-In), Hero calls $12.68

Total pot: $46.01 | Rake: $2


Button had Q, 2 (straight, five high).
Hero had 8, 6 (straight, six high).
Outcome: Hero won $44.01
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-07-2018 , 05:58 PM
Paid the price for trying to push you off a split
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick93
Paid the price for trying to push you off a split
Yeah, you'd think even a fish should be a bit concerned about the fact I've potted the river though.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 01:11 PM
If anyone's looking in I'd appreciate a bit of advice on a spot.

BTN v BB
Btn opens, BB calls and the flop is J 7 3
Btn cbets 1/3 pot and BB calls
Turn is 2

I'm looking at how a solver plays the BTN's range on the turn and something I don't understand is that it bets Q4s - Q8s and K4s - K8s (all suits). What's the explanation for betting these hands here (form a theoretical point of view)?
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker
If anyone's looking in I'd appreciate a bit of advice on a spot.

BTN v BB
Btn opens, BB calls and the flop is J 7 3
Btn cbets 1/3 pot and BB calls
Turn is 2

I'm looking at how a solver plays the BTN's range on the turn and something I don't understand is that it bets Q4s - Q8s and K4s - K8s (all suits). What's the explanation for betting these hands here (form a theoretical point of view)?
blocks his continuing range, like hands that will check-raise or call(45, A4, A5) and bluffs better hands like A9s, as well as having equity vs the top of his range(Jx)
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 03:03 PM
Idk what ur inputting for turn, but likely prefers and overbetting with a semipolarized range
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidesh123
blocks his continuing range, like hands that will check-raise or call(45, A4, A5) and bluffs better hands like A9s, as well as having equity vs the top of his range(Jx)
I was thinking along those lines but then wondered why it's checking KTs when the same reasons apply?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
Idk what ur inputting for turn, but likely prefers and overbetting with a semipolarized range
I only gave it two turn sizings, 70% and 150%.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 03:21 PM
Are u using pio?
Probably just uses 150% with mostly JT+ a smathering of weaker stuff that x's more often and then high AX prefers x and most other stuff is mixed with x being preferred

Bluffs are mostly 65 54 a5 a4 t9 t8 98 stuff with some xing and some over cards at some freq and some hearts. Might also x stuff like AA and kk for traps but idk what flop strat was used

The kx and qx hands have equity against jx and profitable/breakeven bluffs on cetrain rivs. With large turn sizing a strong equity advantage now and on most runouts we will defo have airball bluffs ott. Other hands may perform better as a x back like aq or kq
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
Are u using pio?
Probably just uses 150% with mostly JT+ a smathering of weaker stuff that x's more often and then high AX prefers x and most other stuff is mixed with x being preferred

Bluffs are mostly 65 54 a5 a4 t9 t8 98 stuff with some xing and some over cards at some freq and some hearts. Might also x stuff like AA and kk for traps but idk what flop strat was used

The kx and qx hands have equity against jx and profitable/breakeven bluffs on cetrain rivs. With large turn sizing a strong equity advantage now and on most runouts we will defo have airball bluffs ott. Other hands may perform better as a x back like aq or kq
I'm using GTO+.

I've kinda got the overall turn strategy here but as I drill down into it a bit deeper and look at some examples using a solver there are certain parts of the ranges that I don't have a full understanding of why it's doing what it is with them. I'm basically at the stage where I'm running a number of sims and trying to put into writing the strategy I'll adopt so I feel the need to understand, in theoretical terms, things like this that jump out at me.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 04:01 PM
Because of flop strat and bb response to it the btn is going to basically overbet all hands stronger than x.... the "bluff" situation is much more complicated and idk if you're going to be able to put it into words
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
Because of flop strat and bb response to it the btn is going to basically overbet all hands stronger than x.... the "bluff" situation is much more complicated and idk if you're going to be able to put it into words
Yeah that's definitely the part it gets a bit more complex. The non made hand categories such as draws aren't too difficult but it's the other non made hands that get a bit more complex where blockers etc are involved.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 08:16 PM
Bit of heat to help the month along. I'll take it while it's going

The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 10:48 PM
Nice graph. Who is the RIO instructor that shortstacks?

Im not gonna be shortstacking anytime soon, dont want to become what I hate. However, improving my knowledge of how to play when relative stacks are smaller is something I could defo work on. I sometimes wonder what the cutoff point is for relative stacks whereby it is no longer profitable to set mine or flat SCs cos Villains stack size doesnt offer enough reward when we do get there.

Answer might be in tournament books/videos as they must be dealing with them decisions all the time.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-09-2018 , 11:57 PM
Here is the turn strat pio gives me giving 33% option otf, and 70 or 150 ott.

50% rfi by btn, somewhat tightish cc from bb with a lot of mixed stuff.

The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-10-2018 , 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dev123
Nice graph. Who is the RIO instructor that shortstacks?

Im not gonna be shortstacking anytime soon, dont want to become what I hate. However, improving my knowledge of how to play when relative stacks are smaller is something I could defo work on. I sometimes wonder what the cutoff point is for relative stacks whereby it is no longer profitable to set mine or flat SCs cos Villains stack size doesnt offer enough reward when we do get there.

Answer might be in tournament books/videos as they must be dealing with them decisions all the time.
It's Diego Ramirez. Not sure how much you would get from them as the videos I watched were really showing the process of his work with solvers to come up with certain strategies and how viewers could also do this with their own game. I thought they were excellent. He does have some live play videos though so it's possible you'd get something from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
Here is the turn strat pio gives me giving 33% option otf, and 70 or 150 ott.

50% rfi by btn, somewhat tightish cc from bb with a lot of mixed stuff.

Here's what GTO comes up wth. I've set it up with 25nl rake (4.5% with $2 cap).

BTN range is 45.1%
BB calling range is 32%

Btn cbets 100% for 1/3 pot. On the turn and river it can either check or bet 70% or 150%



Results seem to be fairly similar on first look, both are betting 22, 33, checking 44 etc. The Axo hands look similar. Both like betting the Q4s-Q6s, K4s - K6s.

Last edited by Husker; 02-10-2018 at 05:53 AM.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-10-2018 , 01:16 PM
The blocker effects are incredibly complex/confusing, but for a pseudo GTO strat you can play your range on the turn roughly according to hand strength. You're checking back weak pairs, AK/AQ and the best Kx because they have some showdown value and real equity. Those hands won't make many better hands fold, so they don't make much sense as bluffs. You should instead bluff with weak Kx and Qx because they can literally make villain fold better hands. e.g. Vs a pot sized bet, villain folds 99, 88, 7x, 3x, AQ, KQ, KT etc. When you have AQ, you don't want villain to fold KQ on the turn, so you should check back, but when you have K4s you obviously do want him to fold KQ, so you should bluff.
FWIW, it's sometimes easier to work out what your betting range should be by thinking about your checking range first (the middle of your range), and then - by a process of elimination - you can/should bet everything else (top and bottom of range). If you look at what the solvers are suggesting you check back, it's mostly pairs and hands that are beating villain's folding range. The bets are pretty much everything else: a range polarized to value and "air with no SDV".
If you'd picked a smaller size, I expect the solvers would say "Don't bet the air, because villain won't fold his weak pairs to a small bet. Stick with hands/draws with real equity". When you pot it, there's more scope for air-balling, because there's more fold equity.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-11-2018 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
The blocker effects are incredibly complex/confusing, but for a pseudo GTO strat you can play your range on the turn roughly according to hand strength. You're checking back weak pairs, AK/AQ and the best Kx because they have some showdown value and real equity. Those hands won't make many better hands fold, so they don't make much sense as bluffs. You should instead bluff with weak Kx and Qx because they can literally make villain fold better hands. e.g. Vs a pot sized bet, villain folds 99, 88, 7x, 3x, AQ, KQ, KT etc. When you have AQ, you don't want villain to fold KQ on the turn, so you should check back, but when you have K4s you obviously do want him to fold KQ, so you should bluff.
FWIW, it's sometimes easier to work out what your betting range should be by thinking about your checking range first (the middle of your range), and then - by a process of elimination - you can/should bet everything else (top and bottom of range). If you look at what the solvers are suggesting you check back, it's mostly pairs and hands that are beating villain's folding range. The bets are pretty much everything else: a range polarized to value and "air with no SDV".
If you'd picked a smaller size, I expect the solvers would say "Don't bet the air, because villain won't fold his weak pairs to a small bet. Stick with hands/draws with real equity". When you pot it, there's more scope for air-balling, because there's more fold equity.
Thanks for the reply Arty.
I've got most parts of the range down, except the part I'd mentioned above, but one thing I've been guilty of in the past is overplaying ace high hands etc that have sdv like AQ so that needs changing. I'm looking to keep the turn strat fairly simple so I'm limiting the solver to 2 sizings only, one of which is an overbet.
I'll take a look at a few other boards to check I'm on the right path and then move onto the river.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-13-2018 , 07:30 AM
Daytime (UK) games are a bit aggro



Didn't realise I was getting so many folds to 3bets though.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-13-2018 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker
Daytime (UK) games are a bit aggro



Didn't realise I was getting so many folds to 3bets though.
small sample?
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-13-2018 , 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
small sample?
Very small. Decided to quit at that point anyway as the games were pretty poor.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-17-2018 , 11:15 AM
Friday night was a bit ugly with nothing much going right.



Still up for the month though after recovering a little bit today



I thought I'd marked a couple of interesting hands I was going to post, including a river check-raise bluff I was particularly happy with, but I can't seem to find them so the graphs will have to do for now.
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote
02-28-2018 , 05:47 PM
Graph for the month:



And graph for the year so far:

Spoiler:


I'll post some hands and more info tomorrow
The journey from Full Ring to 6max Quote

      
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