Is thinking river may be the grossest b/f ever with JJ bad? I mean, he's just never bluffing or shoving worse is he? He also has every combo of better that beats us.

I agree with what you're saying, especially with the Q on the turn. I was just hoping he had AK on the river even though I was sure it was unlikely he'd shove it there. It's one of those hands where I go hunting for a reason to call

Decent session today



Had a hand that was particularly nasty for villain:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Hero (Button) ($52.78)
BB ($25)
UTG ($26.93)
MP ($25)
SB ($28.84)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, A
UTG raises $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.85) Q, 5, A (2 players)
UTG bets $0.88, Hero calls $0.88

Turn: ($3.61) J (2 players)
UTG bets $2.10, Hero calls $2.10

River: ($7.81) A (2 players)
UTG bets $5.56, Hero raises to $49.05 (All-In), UTG calls $17.64 (All-In)

Total pot: $54.21

Bit of a crazy session today. I'll post the bigger hands below, just for show, but I'd like some comments on the final hand if anyone is around



1) Villain plays a fishy 27/15/9

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (CO) ($25.80)
SB ($24.96)
BB ($30.83)
MP ($25)
UTG ($25)
Button ($54.64)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K
2 folds, Hero raises $0.75, Button calls $0.75, SB raises $3.40, 1 fold, Hero raises $7.75, 1 fold, SB calls $5

Flop: ($18) J, 9, A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($18) A (2 players)
SB bets $16.46 (All-In), Hero calls $16.46

River: ($50.92) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50.92


SB had 9, 9 (full house, nines over Aces).
Hero had K, K (two pair, Aces and Kings).
Outcome: SB won $48.38


2) Same villain. My turn to luckbox

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (Button) ($27.17)
UTG ($39.49)
BB ($27.24)
SB ($28.51)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises $1, 2 folds, UTG raises $3.25, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.35) 6, Q, J (2 players)
UTG bets $6.99, Hero calls $6.99

Turn: ($21.33) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $20.27, Hero calls $16.68 (All-In)

River: ($54.69) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $54.69


Hero had J, J (three of a kind, Jacks).
UTG had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $52.69


3) Same villain. And I'm smashing the flop

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

SB ($25)
Hero (BB) ($25)
Button ($37.12)
MP ($26.59)
UTG ($28.64)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 5
2 folds, Button raises $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.10) 5, 9, 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($6.10) J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5.80, Hero calls $5.80

River: ($17.70) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8.75, Hero raises to $16.20 (All-In), Button calls $7.45

Total pot: $50.10


Button had 9, J (two pair, Jacks and nines).
Hero had 5, 5 (four of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero won $47.60


4) Same villain again. Helluva runout

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

MP ($40.43)
Hero (BB) ($25.70)
SB ($35.12)
Button ($36.46)
UTG ($27.26)
CO ($32)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, Q
4 folds, SB raises $0.90, Hero calls $0.75

Flop: ($2) 8, Q, A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.37, SB calls $1.37

Turn: ($4.74) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3

River: ($10.74) A (2 players)
SB bets $10.21, Hero raises to $20.33 (All-In), SB calls $10.12

Total pot: $51.40


SB had 3, A (full house, Aces over Queens).
Hero had A, Q (full house, Aces over Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $24.41



5) First time I've seen this villain but he's on a few tables so must be a reg. This is the 4th time he's 3bet me in 12 opportunties

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (MP) ($26.99)
Button ($34.67)
SB ($50.28)
UTG ($15.82)
BB ($23.75)
CO ($25.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, A
1 fold, Hero raises $0.75, 2 folds, SB raises $2.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.25) 5, A, Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.80, SB calls $2.80

Turn: ($10.85) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5.37, SB calls $5.37

River: ($21.59) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $16.32 (All-In), SB calls $16.32

Total pot: $54.23


SB had A, A (three of a kind, Aces).
Hero had Q, A (two pair, Aces and Queens).
Outcome: SB won $51.52



6) Really looking for some advice on this one. In general the reg player pool seems to triple spots like this a ton when checked to. Without any villain specific reads how should we play this (in general). At good old FR I could usually call once or twice and get to showdown but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

UTG ($37.93)
Hero (SB) ($26.21)
Button ($36.17)
CO ($33.79)
BB ($25)
MP ($29.80)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 9
4 folds, Hero raises $0.65, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) 3, 9, Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($3.50) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2.37, Hero calls $2.37

River: ($8.24) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.50, Hero folds

Total pot: $8.24

When did you move to party and 6max?

KK hand is pretty spewy imo.
JJ is so sick because we're positive he has AA as well (note this line is literally ALWAYS ****ING ACES and really is never KK or AK). I don't hate the call but we're set mining basically and doing a lot of folding post. Well done on the cooler. This what he gets for playing AA ******edly.
55 I prob raise flop and try get him to spack out w whatever he has but ur line's obv fine wp.
AQss I def raise flop. It's too connected and he will call/shove way worse. Vs fish just start piling money into the pot asap.
AQo meh unlucky. He should shove fwiw
89ss, cbetting or xc flop is probably fine. i like your line and don't think villains are bluffing a lot otr since your range is pretty Qx heavy.

hero bet flop

Can't tell if funny troll or just what ever but some of the suggestions seem borderline horrible.

55 has to just be a call BBvsBTN on that board. People just going to fold sooo much. No idea how KK is spew on the turn vs a fish. It's probably best card to see and fish can spew + have worse from time to time.

Shove where?

lol classic me missreading two of the 6 hands.

Not often enough facing a pot sized jam imo. 27/15/9 isn't really incredibly fishy anyway.

I started playing 6 max at the start of the year on FTP and Party. When FTP merged with Stars I moved all my volume to Party.




Villain is fishier than most I see at the tables. His preflop stats don't really tell the whole story as postflop he tends to just pot each street etc. Re the KK hands, as Mzbourg said the turn is a great card for us and fish are going to spew here. I actually prefer to see a shove from villain rather than smaller bets as it's more likely to be spew or something I beat rather than the nuts(ish). I'm surprised he didn't put in smaller bets to try to milk me there.

So I think it's gotten to the time I have to make a decision as things just aren't working out for me at the moment. First I'll post todays session and some hands:



1) Unknown fish

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Hero (BB) ($29.86)
Button ($25.42)
CO ($19.67)
SB ($69.11)
UTG ($25)
MP ($34.76)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
UTG raises $0.75, MP raises $2.25, CO calls $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises $7.25, 2 folds, CO calls $5.25

Flop: ($18.10) 4, A, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $6.75, Hero raises $20.25, CO calls $5.42 (All-In)

Turn: ($42.44) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($42.44) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $42.44


Hero had K, K (full house, fours over Kings).
CO didn't show (He had 66)
Outcome: Hero won $48.40


2) Versus a reg.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

Hero (BB) ($26.18)
SB ($32.62)
CO ($25)
Button ($9.85)
UTG ($25.72)
MP ($34.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
4 folds, SB raises $0.65, Hero raises $2.35, SB raises $4.75, Hero raises to $26.18 (All-In), SB calls $20.68

Flop: ($52.36) 3, 4, J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($52.36) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($52.36) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $52.36


SB had J, J (three of a kind, Jacks).
Hero had K, K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: SB won $49.75


3) Versus a floaty reg. Has a very low fold to cbet ip

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (BB) ($38.89)
CO ($30.05)
Button ($28.75)
UTG ($25)
SB ($27.20)
MP ($36.16)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
2 folds, CO raises $0.75, 2 folds, Hero raises $2.45, CO calls $1.95

Flop: ($5.50) J, 7, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.25, CO calls $3.25

Turn: ($12) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $6, Hero raises $25, CO calls $18.10 (All-In)

River: ($60.20) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $60.20


Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and nines).
CO had J, J (full house, Jacks over nines).
Outcome: CO won $57.20



4) Versus a reg. He's folding a ton to 4bets in this spot. Not sure if AJo is too strong to bluff with but I don't like calling oop with it

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

SB ($8.11)
Hero (CO) ($25)
BB ($38.39)
Button ($25)
UTG ($10.03)
MP ($25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, A
2 folds, Hero raises $0.75, Button raises $2.25, 2 folds, Hero raises $5.10, Button calls $3.60

Flop: ($12.05) 9, J, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $6.80, Button raises $17.46, Hero calls $12.35 (All-In), Button calls $1.69 (All-In)

Turn: ($50.35) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($50.35) A (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $50.35


Button had 10, 10 (three of a kind, tens).
Hero had J, A (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
Outcome: Button won $47.84


5) River should probably be a fold but I probably wasn't on my A game at this stage

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Hero (BB) ($42.09)
Button ($40.92)
MP ($23.16)
SB ($27.97)
UTG ($30.85)
CO ($11.58)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K
4 folds, SB raises $0.65, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) K, K, 7 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1, SB calls $1

Turn: ($3.50) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.12, SB calls $2.12

River: ($7.74) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB raises $14, Hero calls $9

Total pot: $35.74


SB had K, A (full house, Kings over Aces).
Hero had J, K (three of a kind, Kings).
Outcome: SB won $33.96


6) Versus a fish

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com

UTG ($29.37)
Hero (Button) ($25)
CO ($25.15)
BB ($25)
MP ($7.97)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, A
1 fold, MP raises $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises $2, 2 folds, MP calls $1.25

Flop: ($4.35) 5, 2, J (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $2.62, MP calls $2.62

Turn: ($9.59) K (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4.75, MP calls $3.35 (All-In)

River: ($16.29) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $16.29


Hero had A, A (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
MP had J, J (four of a kind, Jacks).
Outcome: MP won $15.48

As I said above, I had a decision to make. And I think it's whether to go back to playing Full Ring, persevere a bit longer with 6max or possibly even give things up altogether. It's not a large sample but here's my results for the month so far:



My non showdown winnings are twice as bad as they should be but I'm having to make a ton of folds and things aren't exactly working out for me when I get to showdown either

Thoughts, suggestions?

You could try moving down in stakes if you want to persevere with 6max. It's no surprise you're finding 6max tougher at 25nl when you haven't really played the lower levels ever (afaik).

12k sample. Can't base a decision on that. Drop done one level or go FR or both.

+1

also, look at the 2 graphs you posted at the start of the thread, that should provide motivation.

12k hands + 20bi is something that could be alarming. Plummeting red-line at 6max isn't exactly promising either. I understand it is likely just bad variance but it could just as well be that you're adjusting incorrectly to the 6max games or making big mistakes somewhere. I wouldn't be able to tell you, but with the likes of Ben and TDA being regulars I'm sure someone could be helpful.

Get a coach

My guess is your problem is a combo of 1) big one folding bb too often
2) not 3betting enough in general
3) not picking appropriate lines in many spots

Gl plugging

Post or send me stats, that redline is outlier territory even over this sample.

It's weird but moving down is the one thing I hadn't considered. I've never really played lower than 25nl so it never entered my head.

Yeah I know. If it was FR I'd tell myself it was a blip, suck it up and then get on with things. At 6max though I just don't know where I am. So far I appear to be a 1bb loser but it could be worse than that. In the past I'd know that a downswing would end at some point and I'd get back to winning (although I'd still do a bit of moaning about it ) but here I just don't know. Here's my 6max results on Party:



That was FR on Full Tilt (Rip ). Would be great if FTP was still around but unfortunately even if it was the FR games were dying there, hence my switch to 6max.

I'll definitely be making mistakes, no doubt about that.

It's an option.

1) Defending BB 42.1% versus a button steal and 51.1% versus a SB steal. However a big leak is that I'm definitely not 3betting enough from the BB, despite having various ranges laid out.

2) This is the case as well.Only 5.5% when I should really be up to at least 8%

3) I've no doubt this is correct.

Which ones?

how is your bluffing game?

It's improved a lot recently in smaller pots, but could definitely improve. In larger pots I frequently fail to pull the trigger in spots where I identify weakness and then end up kicking myself when I see what they had at SD.

As many stats as you have. I'll take a glance and see if there's anything outlandish.

I wouldn't move down from here ... I'd move up! 25nl you're playing against regs and some of the best players that have moved up the micro's. Move up to low stakes and at 50nl you're playing against those starting off at that level i.e. beginners and recreational players esp. on weekends. Games are a lot looser and more profitable in my experience.

haha one of the better troll posts Ive read this year