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HU SnG grind HU SnG grind

12-09-2020 , 11:28 PM
Hey,

I have been playing 7 $ HU hypers for a while.

My goal is to reach and maintain 5 % EV ROI, playing 2-3 tables. Possibly the ROI can get even better, maybe something like 7 %. Let's see.

There is a cartel at 15 $ already, and when I see mid stakes regs open sitting 7 $ lobbies, I just don't see any value in battling the regs and moving up.

Therefore I want to make enough money to transit to HU CG. Going to start at NL 50.

I gotta get back in shape., as I was a lazy faq recently...

Goals:

Play at least 100 hours per month and study for 30 hours.

Work out every single day
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 01:55 AM
That's a lot of hours playing/ off the table. GL
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 07:21 AM
^^ Thank you.

Well, today I woke up feeling like - what the **** am I doing with my life? I am just moving money from account A to account B (sometimes the other way around as well).

I desperately need to find some meaningful activity.

Yesterday I did not update, as I was as tired as faq.

My GF got covid and I probably have it, too (not sure tho). Anyway, we will get through quarantine together. Starting today.

-------------

Update for yday:

Played: 4.30 hours (total 43.58 hours this month)
Played total: 43.58/100

Graph:



Studied: 0/30

Workout: 20 pull ups, 10 push ups, stretching (mainly lower body, as I am v tight in my hips and quads)

Anyway, I did not workout very much, as I just dont feel very good, but I just have to keep moving anyway. At least streching, because when I sit for long hours, then I just feel like a walking brick.

Also, one of the things I should and want to work on is my English. It just got rusty over time. I have not used it almost at all. And you can definitely feel that I am not a native English speaker. But whatever, it will never get as good as a Native level (I suppose). Well, unless I live in an English speaking country.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Some hands:

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 460
SB: 540

SB posts SB 10, Hero posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has K 6

SB calls 10, Hero checks

Flop: (40, 2 players) A 8 9
Hero checks, SB bets 20, Hero calls 20

Turn: (80, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, SB checks

River: (80, 2 players) A
Hero checks, SB bets 60, Hero calls 60

Spoiler:
SB shows 2 7 (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 39%, Flop 24%, Turn 14%)
Hero shows K 6 (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 61%, Flop 76%, Turn 86%)
Hero wins 200


I don't think he has many Ax in his range, and betting 8x/9x does not make much sense with this sizing. Lots of draws missed here. So if I am fully focused and playing my A game, I am calling here.

--------------------------------------------------------------

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 500
Hero (BB): 500

SB posts SB 10, Hero posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has J K

SB raises to 40, Hero calls 20

Flop: (80, 2 players) J T 6
Hero checks, SB bets 32, Hero raises to 195, SB calls 163

Turn: (470, 2 players) 7
Hero bets 265 and is all-in, SB calls 265 and is all-in

River: (1,000, 2 players) A

Spoiler:
Hero shows J K (One Pair, Jacks)

SB shows 7 T (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens)

SB wins 1,000


Trying to incorporate huge c/r sizing into my game. I basically don't care about balance vs a rec. I just raise it big when I have it. Anyways, I am trying to figure out, whether raising huge has better EV than raising "standard".

--------------------------------------------------------------

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 510
BB: 490

Hero posts SB 10, BB posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has 4 A

Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: (80, 2 players) 9 T 2
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (80, 2 players) A
BB checks, Hero bets 46, BB calls 46

River: (172, 2 players) 4
BB checks, Hero bets 129, BB raises to 404 and is all-in, fold

Spoiler:
Hero mucks 4 A (Two Pair, Aces and Fours)

BB wins 430


If I am autopiloting or tilting, I might call it off here. But this is almost never bluff. People are not creative enough. Or do I have them too much credit? I just got burned too many times calling off these river x/r light.

--------------------------------------------------------------

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 550
Hero (SB): 450

Hero posts SB 10, BB posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has 3 2

Hero calls 10, BB checks

Flop: (40, 2 players) 5 4 2
BB bets 40, Hero calls 40

Turn: (120, 2 players) Q
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (120, 2 players) 7
BB bets 20, Hero raises to 140, BB calls 120

Spoiler:
Hero shows 3 2 (One Pair, Twos)
(Pre 35%, Flop 49%, Turn 30%)
BB shows 4 K (One Pair, Fours)
(Pre 65%, Flop 51%, Turn 70%)
BB wins 400


Usually I tend to attack these small sizings pretty aggressively. But then again, some people like to call the raises way too light.

--------------------------------------------------------------

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 550
BB: 450

Hero posts SB 10, BB posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has 6 3

Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: (80, 2 players) 9 2 Q
BB checks, Hero bets 30, BB calls 30

Turn: (140, 2 players) 5
BB checks, Hero bets 80, BB calls 80

River: (300, 2 players) 2
BB checks, Hero bets 400 and is all-in, BB calls 300 and is all-in

Spoiler:
Hero shows 6 3 (One Pair, Twos)
(Pre 34%, Flop 6%, Turn 9%)
BB shows 9 3 (Two Pair, Nines and Twos)
(Pre 66%, Flop 94%, Turn 91%)
BB wins 900


I was thinking on the river - to shove or not to shove? Thing is, that I am the bottom of my range here. But I don't know whether if matters, as villain is probably calling me down light here, as the river pairs.

Not even that many draws missed either. Maybe if there is some FD missed, it might be a better shove otr.

Anyways, lesson learned here: when the boards pairs, and I don't have equity, just check it down. And even with some equity, I should be doing a lot of checking.

--------------------------

Today I want to focus on:

extracting maximum value out of villain - donking some turns, rivers

x/r bluffing paired flops pretty wide, as I think they are overbluffed

focusing on defending enough hands facing a flop cbet OOP in limped pots (as I feel like I might be overfolding on certain flops)

study at least 1 hour today - be it playing with ranges in Flopzilla or watching strategic videos

volume-wise: idk how much I can play, let's see how much energy I have... as I started couching pretty heavily

Last edited by Vvvvv; 12-11-2020 at 07:22 AM. Reason: added full resolution graph
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 11:00 AM
I disagree with most of your lines and analysis, but it's been a while since I've played any hypers

For example in the K6 hand I think it clearly makes sense for villain to bet 9x that size otr, and I'm snapping the A4 - I don't play hypers to fold 2p

I'm on board with the huge x/r though I don't know if that line will actually work out better but seems kind of fun. And I like the 63 bluff but think you should just get in the habit of using geometric size in this type of spot and bet about 120 ott to setup the river jam rather than betting 55% ott and overbetting river.

Also, we should be x/ring paired boards a lot, but villains should be cbetting paired boards a lot for small size especially in mr pots....that's kind of how the equilibrium works, rather than them being super overbluffed. They probably are in limped pots though. I think the real thing is overfolding to the xr.

Anyway, it's nice to see an husng thread in here. Good luck! If you're at $7s I'd highly recommend trying to get into the $15s div at least, I don't think it's too hard and last I knew the $15s traffic was still pretty good.

Last edited by Duncelanas; 12-11-2020 at 11:19 AM.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 11:25 AM
Then what hands do we beat with the A4? I know it’s a tight fold but I think he has a lot of flushes here personally.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpectedV
Then what hands do we beat with the A4? I know it’s a tight fold but I think he has a lot of flushes here personally.
Bluffs, maybe some weaker 2p.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncelanas
Bluffs, maybe some weaker 2p.
Bluffs are very slim but yeah some 2p for sure.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpectedV
Bluffs are very slim but yeah some 2p for sure.
For the most part if I think I'm beating any value hands I'm just gonna call. Fish (without passive reads) are capable of coming up with random bluffs. That said, I'm pretty sure I stationed more than just about any midstakes hyper reg I know.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 02:55 PM
cool thread. we've probably played a bit. i play 7s in my spare time

will follow
HU SnG grind Quote
12-11-2020 , 05:36 PM
Dope. in. I used to grind these years ago but always stake jumped too fast and busted. Where you from?
HU SnG grind Quote
12-12-2020 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncelanas
I disagree with most of your lines and analysis, but it's been a while since I've played any hypers

For example in the K6 hand I think it clearly makes sense for villain to bet 9x that size otr, and I'm snapping the A4 - I don't play hypers to fold 2p

I'm on board with the huge x/r though I don't know if that line will actually work out better but seems kind of fun. And I like the 63 bluff but think you should just get in the habit of using geometric size in this type of spot and bet about 120 ott to setup the river jam rather than betting 55% ott and overbetting river.

Also, we should be x/ring paired boards a lot, but villains should be cbetting paired boards a lot for small size especially in mr pots....that's kind of how the equilibrium works, rather than them being super overbluffed. They probably are in limped pots though. I think the real thing is overfolding to the xr.

Anyway, it's nice to see an husng thread in here. Good luck! If you're at $7s I'd highly recommend trying to get into the $15s div at least, I don't think it's too hard and last I knew the $15s traffic was still pretty good.
I just try to come up with something, that is not ordinary to me. Because sometimes, it just gets boring... So I have to get creative in order to change my habits and possibly I will improve my WR, too. But I have to be careful, so that I don't get too spazzy.

K6 - now when I think about it, maybe even flop call is too wide, having just Kx and backdoor str8 draw.

And you are right, I would play some 9x the same way, too. Maybe it was a gut feeling in game. Also, I expect a good amount of 9x to barrel ott. It is true, that my range can contain some Ax, but not that many.

KJ - huge x/r - I might lose some value from his weaker hands, like GS or BD's. It is really hard to estimate which play has better EV (imo), as it is hard to estimate how will the ranges differ. But again, it is just a test, so let's see how it goes.

Paired boards - yep, agree 100 %. I x/r some hands yday and I got to some pretty weird spots. I just don't feel very comfortable playing OOP, when I x/r and villain calls. Especially when it is readless. So yeah, better to x/r some hands w BD potential.

Do you think, that people don't have enough bluffs when they x/r? I am curious, because maybe I station a lot here... But I rarely get to the river with marginal hands. Once I call the x/r and I don't improve, I just lay it down.

63s - yeah, I like to do this too, and villan had a pot bet behind. Anyway, I already posted this hand into HU SnG forums and yeah, it is probably too wide. I made a mistake ott, there is not enough fold equity for this to be profitable.

A4 - I will try this approach and see how it goes. Anyway, maybe I could've bet smaller otr. And it is true, that people are able to come up with bluffs in river x/r line, but I don't see it very often (maybe selective memory).

Anyway, what do you play these days if not hypers?

Maybe, I will try to get to 15s. I don't know yet. First gotta build the roll anyway.

And thank you! Yeah, I play 7s atm... but I gotta figure out what will be my next move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncelanas
For the most part if I think I'm beating any value hands I'm just gonna call. Fish (without passive reads) are capable of coming up with random bluffs. That said, I'm pretty sure I stationed more than just about any midstakes hyper reg I know.
This is true. Sometimes I am quite shocked when I get to showdown and they show up some random spazz.

With that stationing... I think, I call way too much in various spots. But I try to check my river call stat.

E.g. I rarely call down 3 barrels, unless I have a read, that villain is spewy/aggro. Usually I can recognize villain's tendencies from his preflop play. When he is aggro preflop, I expect him to be aggro postflop, too. And then I play against villains w 40 % SB VPIP and I see them doing some crazy things. Maybe they realize, that they have tight image, so they just get creative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teddybloat
cool thread. we've probably played a bit. i play 7s in my spare time

will follow
Thanks. Yeah, I got two Teddies in my db, if that is your sn on stars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy^
Dope. in. I used to grind these years ago but always stake jumped too fast and busted. Where you from?
Funny thing is, that when I was at high school, I was playing the same stakes as I am now. Well, it is kind of sad, too. I have never been good with money. Time to change that.

I am from Eastern Europe.

_________________________________________

Update for 11th December:

Played: 9.23 hours
Played total: 52.81/100 hours

Graph:



Studied: 0/30

Exercise: just a little bit of stretching, as I am feeling quite bad. I need to improve this today

Obviously running like a sun, but still I feel like I have misplayed a lot of spots. Calling down people too light or running some weird bluffs.

Anyways, I have played last games vs a villain, who was NEVER folding. I mean, I made a note: "DO NOT BLUFF THIS GUY". So I did not.

He was literally calling 7hi, 9hi... so I expanded my value betting range.

I might post some hands later.

Today? I don't know. I just don't feel very well, and I should spend some time w my GF, as she is getting really pissed, that I am just clicking buttons. Yeah, I take that, she is right.

And I should study some spots, too. Especially spots, that don't come up very often - like playing 3b pots IP, ISO spots, facing dcb, facing super dcb... and so on.

I don't want to say, that there is nothing to improve in preflop/flop situations, that come up most frequently, but I just feel like I need to study some infrequent spots, too. As I feel lost in them.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-12-2020 , 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vvvvv

Funny thing is, that when I was at high school, I was playing the same stakes as I am now. Well, it is kind of sad, too. I have never been good with money. Time to change that.

I am from Eastern Europe.

Nice heater yesterday!

Do you remember on full tilt there were unlimited lobbies? Anyone who had an even slightly winning sharkscope graph could open sit pretty much any stake. Definitely not like that anymore lol
HU SnG grind Quote
12-12-2020 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Thanks. Yeah, I got two Teddies in my db, if that is your sn on stars.
Yah I have a different sn than here.

Sick heater man

Glgl
HU SnG grind Quote
12-12-2020 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy^
Nice heater yesterday!

Do you remember on full tilt there were unlimited lobbies? Anyone who had an even slightly winning sharkscope graph could open sit pretty much any stake. Definitely not like that anymore lol
I think, that I had just few dollars on FTP before Black Friday... Oh, no, actually I joined it post Black Friday. As I turned 18 in 2011.

Yeah, poker is changing. I wonder how is it going to look like in 5/10 years horizont.

You still play some HU?

And thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by teddybloat
Yah I have a different sn than here.

Sick heater man

Glgl
Thank you! Fish on hotrun obv.

--------------------------------------------

Update for 12th December:

Played: 3.7 hours
Played total: 56.51/100 hours

Studied: 1.5/30

Exercise: just dying in bed and coughing

I decided, that I will not post graphs on daily basis, as it doesn't help at all... I just don't see anything positive in it. I will decide how often I will post them. Maybe on a weekly basis...

Adjustments vs the pool


I played many interesting hands today. I also misplayed a bunch of them. Sometimes I should just give them the credit. E.g. when villain donk bets 3 streets, it is RARELY a bluff. No need to level myself. The guy probably doesn't even realize he is OOP (this is how I see it). And if this statement is true, then I should overfold vs 3 barrels a lot (especially on dry textures).

I have to stop hero calling like I am out of my mind. Ok, when I check my river call stat, it is still making me some money, but it could've been better. Way better. People just don't fold in certain spots (or very rarely).

Oh, and when I was going through the hands (right now this seems to be the best way of studying, combined with discussing the hands, too) I realized, that I should NOT focus on these "rare" spots, because they simply cannot provide me with as many value as trying to play perfect preflop. So - back to basics.

Yeah, it seems fundamental, but preflop is the street that gets played the most often. Therefore there is the biggest room for making correct adjustments/leaking money.

E.g. vs some villains I will play 100 % VPIP on SB. Vs other, I will fold the bottom of my range. Then there are villains vs whom, I will limp even AA 25bb. All of these adjustments might get villain specific, but they do exist. And I should NOT neglect them.

Another thing - I realized, that I don't donk enough. You know, when board changes significantly, and there is a high a chance, that villain will check back even his TPGK. So yeah, I have to incorporate donk bets more into my game. Unless I have a read, that villain is bluffy and barreling like crazy, then I should do it.

Also, I realized, that sometimes I miss one street of value, because I am scared of flush or something.

Next, I shouldn't overcall vs potbets. Yeah, they tend to be polarized, but it really depends if they cbet with pot sizing, or if they use pot bet otr after action goes xxB.

And maybe I shouldn't bluff as wide as I have been. E.g. when villain shows weakness, I punish him immediately. Obv, I am going for max exploit, so I get punished sometimes, too.

For example - I limp, villain clicks it back and otf he just goes for the check. I tend to attack this quite wide. And then I barrel it off on many runouts. I should be careful here. Especially on broadway runouts. But I think, that they cap their ranges pretty hard when they check to me. I could be wrong here. Let's see how it goes. I have to test it in the field.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-13-2020 , 02:31 AM
Bluff catching can feel more art than science. The problem is the feedback we get is not perfect.

Say we face a half pot bet. We need villain to be bluffing 25% of the time to break even. Let's say we think he has lots of air and we will be good 40% of the time. It's a fistpump call, we've made a great decision yet we will be "wrong" 60% of the time.

Even when you are making good reads you can lose more often than you win.

The reverse is true. You can hero v a nit and just happen to come up against the tiny amount of air he has left on river and think you are a god, when you've made a terrible call v his range.

A decent way of checking is your river call efficiency stat in pt4.

If it's over 2 then you are either too tight or calling with too strong a range. (Not raising enough)

If it's near 1 you are likely being too loose : a call stat of 1 means you would have had the same results had you folded all rivers for example.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-13-2020 , 02:51 AM
That sucks your sick with the covid. I think I am going to have it soon too, someone I live with has it. I don't feel anything yet tho.

And naa I dont play HU SNGs anymore. Too hard. Ill take the easy mtt money.
Have been playing a few spins lately though.. does feel good to play 25bb again a little
HU SnG grind Quote
12-13-2020 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teddybloat
Bluff catching can feel more art than science. The problem is the feedback we get is not perfect.

Say we face a half pot bet. We need villain to be bluffing 25% of the time to break even. Let's say we think he has lots of air and we will be good 40% of the time. It's a fistpump call, we've made a great decision yet we will be "wrong" 60% of the time.

Even when you are making good reads you can lose more often than you win.

The reverse is true. You can hero v a nit and just happen to come up against the tiny amount of air he has left on river and think you are a god, when you've made a terrible call v his range.

A decent way of checking is your river call efficiency stat in pt4.

If it's over 2 then you are either too tight or calling with too strong a range. (Not raising enough)

If it's near 1 you are likely being too loose : a call stat of 1 means you would have had the same results had you folded all rivers for example.
Interesting.

My river call efficiency is 2.01 for this year.

I think, it is fine. As we should take into consideration also how bluffy villains are in general.

If I understand correctly, river call efficiency 1 equals being break/even?

But it might be true, that I am not raising otr enough. Maybe I am losing value there.

And I will try to expand my calling range a little. But it was a disaster yesterday. Even today I already made some stupid calldowns (or maybe I am just result oriented).

I could be a nit, I don't deny that and then I am spewing stack in other spots, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy^
That sucks your sick with the covid. I think I am going to have it soon too, someone I live with has it. I don't feel anything yet tho.

And naa I dont play HU SNGs anymore. Too hard. Ill take the easy mtt money.
Have been playing a few spins lately though.. does feel good to play 25bb again a little
Hmm, I have never played those. Maybe 50 MTTs in my life. What would you adjust as a good start? I mean, can I find preflop ranges somewhere for free?

Btw, do you play on stars or elsewhere?

--------------------------------------------------------



This happens almost on a daily basis. Sometimes I wonder, whether it is immoral to blind the villain out. But I usually come to conclusion, that it is not because poker is predatory in its essence.

And it is not my responsibility, that villain has some connectivity issues or he just forgot that he registered into a tourney.

Plenty of times when villain is sitting out, I just limp atc as quickly as possible. And then, he comes back and wins the game. Karma? Maybe

But if I wait for him, it is -EV for both of us, because edges would get smaller for both sides as stacks would get shorter. And if I have a freeroll, then I guess I just take it.

If I know that a villain is a reg, I would either wait or send him the money back. But this have not happened for a long time.

--------------------------------------------------------



Have a nice day, too buddy!

Anyways, I am always praying for a rematch in such situations.

Some people even call me a lotto player, because I am shoving quite wide when we get shallow.

--------------------------------------------------------



Action went like this

preflop:
hero limps
villain raises to t90
hero calls

flop (pot is t120):
villain bets t120
hero jams
villain tanks at least for 10 seconds and when he has last 3 seconds left, I just typed in: fold... but he was a stubborn guy and decided to call w speculative hand he just snapped it.

-------------------------------

Dan Colman used to use a lot of trashtalking. I usually don't do this. But I still see value in using a chat. It is quite easy to get creative and get some calls/folds. Depends what you want.

-------------------------------

I will probably post some hands here later today. And maybe I will post something into HU SnG forums, too.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-13-2020 , 01:59 PM
I don't wait and I don't expect people to wait for me.

On another site with a small player pool in slower formats I would wait and even reset stacks. This was predatory in a way as I wanted to make it a nice playing environment and would get rematches out of doing so.

Nowadays in hypers I blind off and expect others to do the same to me.

RCE of 2 is fine I think also in our games
HU SnG grind Quote
12-13-2020 , 02:10 PM
2 rce is higher than basically every decent+ reg I know (admittedly, the sample here is like 10 or 15 people, not huge). I think somewhere around 1.75-1.85 is what most of them have. Mine was more like 1.6, station life.

By the way, don't feel bad about blinding out. For the most part when you dc you will also get blinded out, and everyone's connection is their own responsibility when they join the game. It's kinda scummy but that's just the culture.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-13-2020 , 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teddybloat
I don't wait and I don't expect people to wait for me.

On another site with a small player pool in slower formats I would wait and even reset stacks. This was predatory in a way as I wanted to make it a nice playing environment and would get rematches out of doing so.

Nowadays in hypers I blind off and expect others to do the same to me.

RCE of 2 is fine I think also in our games
You pretty much nailed this.. from my point of view anyway.

Disconnects are going to happen. its going to happen to you once in a while and you should do the same. if its a smaller player pool different story.


Quote:
Hmm, I have never played those. Maybe 50 MTTs in my life. What would you adjust as a good start? I mean, can I find preflop ranges somewhere for free?
Im in the US, so no Stars for me. Im playing on ACR for the massive player pool tourneys, then smaller sites for the softer low variance stuff.

If heads up is working for you definitely stick with it..just wasn't for me. I personally learned by watching a bunch of runitonce videos and a little icimizer study.

Also i feel dumb that i just had to look up RCE lol
HU SnG grind Quote
12-14-2020 , 08:45 PM
Wtf, donking trips is new meta now? And obv I call it down, because he CANNOT have it, right?

Will update later today, as GF is asleep already and my keyboard is quite noisy

Will reply tomorrow, guys.

Lots of hands incoming.

And maybe my RCE is not that bad for low stakes. I tried to expand my calling ranges otr and they "always" have it. Or maybe I pick up wrong spots?

Let's see. But it hurts my WR a lot... Again, I could be stationy in wrong spots/against wrong villains/just seeing the top range.

But I did some very spewy plays... Maybe I am looking for EV in wrong spots.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-15-2020 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teddybloat
I don't wait and I don't expect people to wait for me.

On another site with a small player pool in slower formats I would wait and even reset stacks. This was predatory in a way as I wanted to make it a nice playing environment and would get rematches out of doing so.

Nowadays in hypers I blind off and expect others to do the same to me.

RCE of 2 is fine I think also in our games
Makes sense and I agree 100 %.

That RCE... I am not sure. I guess it is also player's dependent. Because if people are underbluffing, than we shouldn't be calling very wide. But that is just my assumption. And maybe I am a nit and I give people too much credit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncelanas
2 rce is higher than basically every decent+ reg I know (admittedly, the sample here is like 10 or 15 people, not huge). I think somewhere around 1.75-1.85 is what most of them have. Mine was more like 1.6, station life.

By the way, don't feel bad about blinding out. For the most part when you dc you will also get blinded out, and everyone's connection is their own responsibility when they join the game. It's kinda scummy but that's just the culture.
Do you think, that the stakes matter here, too?

Anyway, I was too concerned about my RCE past few days and I made some pretty questionable calls. Maybe I was just picking the wrong spots. Or they simply had it in those situations in which I decided to call.

About blinding out - yeah, basically dog eats dog.

Funny thing - I played vs a guy, his name was something like "you are next"... so we played some games and he was winning every single game, no matter what I did. And then, he was sitting out - so I started limping atc furiously - but he managed to came back before I blinded him out. And he won that tourney. And then some after that. I could not beat this guy. And I thought, that it was karma for blinding him out. Because he asked me if I know what the fair play is.

He won like 7 games in a row and I felt, that I was cursed or something. Every pot went his way. He almost always had the top of his range. And if he did not, he managed to win anyway.

Anyway, his WR was 23.81 BB/100 after 159 hands. Maybe he was a solid player and I have this fancy play syndrome vs good players (leak of mine that needs to get fixed). But his sn "you are next", and his chat game and everything... Maybe he was my karma. Maybe my conscience. Idk. I mean, I still blind out people, but sometimes I am not sure whether it is a right thing to do... Whatever. End of bad beat story lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy^
You pretty much nailed this.. from my point of view anyway.

Disconnects are going to happen. its going to happen to you once in a while and you should do the same. if its a smaller player pool different story.

Im in the US, so no Stars for me. Im playing on ACR for the massive player pool tourneys, then smaller sites for the softer low variance stuff.

If heads up is working for you definitely stick with it..just wasn't for me. I personally learned by watching a bunch of runitonce videos and a little icimizer study.

Also i feel dumb that i just had to look up RCE lol
I read something about bots in HU SnG (which are not running anymore) and then some bots in CG. Do you think, that there could be some bots in MTTs, too? I mean specifically on WPN.

Do you know whether there is a good HU CG action running? I cannot observe blitz the tables for some reason. Or is there a chance that the bots are open sitting HU CG tables, too?

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Update for 13th-14th December:

Played: 15.25 hours
Played total: 71.76/100 hours

Studied: 0/30
Studied total: 1.5/30

Exercise: 20 pull ups and full body stretching. Stretching actually feels amazing. I should do it on a daily basis, as I am as stiff as faq (I am missing idioms in my vocabulary lol, which makes me cuss a lot, because it is an easy substitute, even in my native language)

River call efficiency (just out of curiosity): 1.38 - which means, that I became the biggest station ever lol. I need to be more selective. A lot more selective.

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Hands:

PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 460
BB: 540

Hero posts SB 10, BB posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has 9 J

Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: (80, 2 players) 8 4 3
BB checks, Hero bets 30, BB calls 30

Turn: (140, 2 players) 4
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (140, 2 players) 2
BB bets 100, Hero calls 100

Spoiler:
BB shows 9 Q (One Pair, Fours)
(Pre 73%, Flop 86%, Turn 93%)
Hero mucks 9 J (One Pair, Fours)
(Pre 27%, Flop 14%, Turn 7%)
BB wins 340


I think, that I should just avoid these fancy plays.

Thing is, that villain can turn even some Qx, Kx into a bluff (possibly some Ax, too). And that sux.

My leak is, that sometimes I don't think about my whole range, but just about that specific hand that I am playing at that moment. Vs fish, it is ok, but if I don't know my ranges well, then I don't know how many hands do I need to call here and then I become spewy. So I guess I have to open Flopzilla and fix this leak.

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PokerStars - 20/40 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 505
Hero (BB): 495

SB posts SB 20, Hero posts BB 40

Pre Flop: (pot: 60) Hero has 2 8

SB calls 20, Hero checks

Flop: (80, 2 players) 8 K T
Hero checks, SB checks

Turn: (80, 2 players) 8
Hero bets 160, SB raises to 465 and is all-in, Hero calls 295 and is all-in

River: (990, 2 players) J

Spoiler:
Hero shows 2 8 (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 31%, Flop 49%, Turn 82%)
SB shows Q J (Two Pair, Jacks and Eights)
(Pre 69%, Flop 51%, Turn 18%)
Hero wins 990


Trying to get a little creative here. LuckyCPS inspired me. I have never been a fan of ABC poker. Thing is, that I might spew quite often. Never mind, that is the price I am willing to pay for my progress. My approach is - let's try to test this line in the field and see if it works. If I get called down like 3+ times then I might give it up. Like I was trying to attack their wide cbetting range on paired boards... well, it did not go very well or I was being too optimistic.

Anyway, I hate when somebody is donk betting and using pot+ sizing vs me. And when a player is pot donk betting, then I am going crazy. So I am trying to use their weapons against them. Let's see how it goes.

It's just 25 bb poker (in first hand), but yet there is a lot of room for gaining the edge.

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PokerStars - 20/40 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 620
BB: 380

Hero posts SB 20, BB posts BB 40

Pre Flop: (pot: 60) Hero has T J

Hero calls 20, BB checks

Flop: (80, 2 players) 3 4 A
BB bets 80, Hero calls 80

Turn: (240, 2 players) 8
BB bets 80, Hero calls 80

River: (400, 2 players) T
BB bets 180 and is all-in, Hero calls 180

Spoiler:
BB shows 9 8 (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 33%, Flop 23%, Turn 86%)
Hero shows T J (One Pair, Tens)
(Pre 67%, Flop 77%, Turn 14%)
Hero wins 760


Again one of those hand where I have the gut feeling.

Villain had 35 % ISO (8/23 hands), so I dont expect any Ax in his range. And he was donking 21 % in LP (3/14)

If he plays 2p or str8 like this, then good for him.

I was ready to call down on almost any river except 5 or 2.

Question is - do I have to make such plays? Is it necessary? Can I really get some EV here? Idk, let's see.

These are the notes on a player:

"3x
pot probe R
xb TP
xxB TP
pot cb SPnk
OB probe GS
thin value otr"

when somebody is passive w TP IP, I don't expect him to be aggro OOP w similar hand. He overbet the GS, is capable of betting thin otr... And I saw pot cbet w SP... Well, so maybe I played it wrong. As he is overplaying his middling hands and being passive w top range. So I don't like my play now. Anyway, onto the next one.

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PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 290
SB: 710

SB posts SB 10, Hero posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has 3 5

SB calls 10, Hero checks

Flop: (40, 2 players) 4 A K
Hero checks, SB bets 20, Hero raises to 60, SB calls 40

Turn: (160, 2 players) 9
Hero bets 40, SB calls 40

River: (240, 2 players) 6
Hero bets 170 and is all-in, SB calls 170

Spoiler:
Hero shows 3 5 (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 36%, Flop 20%, Turn 9%)
SB shows 8 A (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 64%, Flop 80%, Turn 91%)
SB wins 580


I just checked the Flopzilla, and if K4 is the only value combo I would raise here and if I x/r every 53o, 53s, 32o, 32s... then I am simply overbluffing.

I have 9 combos of value (K4o,K4s combined) and 32 combos of bluffs.

Tbh, I am not very good at theory. I am still a fish in this... I don't have a solver either. I am an old school kid (but this is going to change soon...) anyway, I found out that on the flop we should construct our ranges in this way - bluff:value - 2:1. Therefore I should raise just with 18 combos of my weak GSs. And I am not really sure whether suited combo is a better candidate for a x/r, because it will have better playability on turns, but I might get raised of my equity on the flop.

Oh, actually one more thing... I should not raise K4 here always I guess. So let's say if I raise just 4 combos of my K4, then I could raise 8 bluff combos - and it would be good to have some QT/QJ, too... So yeah, I should barely raise this flop if at all. And I wonder what would solver say. And maybe I am supposed to have some Ax in my preflop range, too. Which I don't.

Btw, this was played vs a solid opponent. And I solidly misplayed the spot obv.

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PokerStars - 10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 490
Hero (SB): 510

Hero posts SB 10, BB posts BB 20

Pre Flop: (pot: 30) Hero has 2 3

Hero calls 10, BB checks

Flop: (40, 2 players) J K 4
BB checks, Hero bets 20, BB calls 20

Turn: (80, 2 players) Q
BB checks, Hero bets 60, BB calls 60

River: (200, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero bets 410 and is all-in, BB calls 390 and is all-in

Spoiler:
Hero shows 2 3 (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 34%, Flop 27%, Turn 0%)
BB shows 9 Q (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)
(Pre 66%, Flop 73%, Turn 100%)
BB wins 980


Too wide? Bad hand selection? No need to overbet the river?

I posted a similar hand here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...-spot-1782107/

Anyway, if the river pairing card doesn't complete a flush, I just shut down. But here I was quite confident, that villain would fold even his Qx.

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Let me know your thoughts, guys. And I guess, I should mark less hand for review. As I got 202 of them marked just for these two days. Some of them are lol hands.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-15-2020 , 05:08 PM
Hand 1

you absolutely nailed the reason it’s a bad call: villains will turn too much showdown into bluffs. its not uncommon for recs to not realise they are turning bottom pair into a bluff. Calling here is horrendous.

Hand 2

“LuckyCPS inspired me”. I think this is a dangerous mindset when playing 7 dollar games v the pool.

Hand 3

On this board at this depth v a min donk I think floating with the intention of betting and barrelling v checks or clicking it back is fine. V a pot size donk i’m folding flop. We should expect a high barrel frequency, and we don’t pick up equity on enough turns and there is about a pot bet left on turn. As played fold turn.

Hand 4

Calling or raising likely fine. Here we should have some reads at this depth v reg.

You don’t care about being raised off equity with a 5 high GS, even with BDFD. The ability to barrel with equity is valuable, if you have to fold flop it is no disaster.

A solver much prefers a suited 53 and will barrel much more when it picks up equity on the turn compared to without that additional equity

53o raises with a much lower frequency than 53s

I’m fine with barrelling but we have to assess what range we are trying to fold out. Here we are targeting 4x , 55-88 and QJ, JT. I think we can fold that on turn with a bigger sizing. We aren’t folding much else with 3 barrels, so I’d be happier betting turn bigger and shutting down.

as played considering our turn sizing we need him to have all the GS and low PPs in his range and for the low PPs to be folding. we would likely want to have reads. But i prefer a bigger turn size to avoid this decision


Hand 5

Trying to get an average villain to fold Qx is very optimistic. After we bet big on turn we should expect villains range to be good pairs and FDs. The K is not a good card. Targeting Qx is optimistic and shouldn’t form a part of our thinking at these stakes.

A small bet to fold out FD’s could be profitable, note our 2h interferes with much of his suited check back range pre though.

Last edited by teddybloat; 12-15-2020 at 05:13 PM.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-16-2020 , 05:21 AM
h1 definitely just bad, this is why you have 1.4 rce lol. I dunno exactly what the lower bound is but I've never talked to a winning reg with a lower one than mine, surely 1.5 and below means you're overcalling.

h2 also bad, you can probably just 125% 125% or something here but 2x pot and then small jam is wrong.

h3 fold flop, as played fold turn. I sometimes get ool in these spots too for the same reasons (fwiw I think it's not good/don't really recommend it), but if I do I'm gonna click or jam flop rather than calling.

h4 I feel pretty whatever about barreling this off but the sizings are whack and your frequencies/thinking seem all wrong. we should definitely be raising more hands than just k4.

h5 whatever too but I think we have the wrong suits for this. I don't want a heart and I do want a club.
HU SnG grind Quote
12-16-2020 , 03:42 PM
I think 30 hours of studying is going to be far too much for the average player to try and sustain. You'd be better off spending either half hour a day, or setting 1-2 days a week where you study maybe 2 hours per block.
HU SnG grind Quote

      
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