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Old 08-12-2017, 07:40 PM   #201
baannii4
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

h1: i think c bet big or x are both good plays, dont really like small sizing. don't think anyone is folding 89, kq or a 10 if u size up from 20 to 40. trying not to be results orientated but as played river is a call for both pot sizes since despite v being tight they can overplay their 10x when turn is checked around and a lot of value jx hands are blocked by you and the 10 on the board.

h2: bl

h3: i think the thin v bet on river is good since v's wont exploit it enough but i think maybe turn can go bigger
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:49 PM   #202
baannii4
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Daily Update - Fri 11 Aug 2017
h1: don't mind betting or x'ing flop, turn needs to be bigger imo, river bigger aswell but otherwise pretty standard

h2: lol nice call but seems kinda iffy but whatever

h3: don't like c bet, when he raises call is fine and calling down seems good

h4: can 3 bet iso here pre if he's tilty/drunk and opening to wide. if u think he's spewing off enough turn is fine but i prob just fold and wait for a better moment but it's close
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:54 PM   #203
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Daily Update - Sat 12 Aug 2017

Hand 1

If villain is as described then she will have folded a ten OTF - it's an easy fold so she certainly should have folded a ten regardless of her play-style. I think I call river because it's live poker and I'm a fish and she could have ****ing kings or something but the fact she showed one card makes me believe you probably made a good fold. Nits love to show one and pretend they were bluffing, just laugh in her face next time and tell her you'll give her a fiver if she can show anything but quads.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:55 PM   #204
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Don't believe nits when they tell you they didn't have the nuts!
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:08 PM   #205
MikeStarr
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Daily Update - Thur 10 Aug 2017

Hours Played: 12.3
Profit: $1,232
Variance: 6

Notes: Got to the casino at about 2PM, waited for 2.5 hours, finally got on at like 4:30, played for an hour before I had to leave for my homegame. Managed to win some money in that hour. Then I up n left to my homegame which I was payed $200 to attend - so $50 of that for the uber cost and $150 as a bonus/rakeback type deal. I also managed to make money in this game despite losing KK v AA 200bb deep which sucked a lot. I have some cool hands to share below.
This boggles my mind. Its absurd.

If you wait this long every time its going to destroy your win rate. I mean your actual win rate while playing is the same if you want to compare it to other players to see how you stack up, but if you want to compare how much actual money you are making its going to kill you.

If you and I are both $40/hr winners, but you have to wait 2 hrs to play every day and I get right onto a table (which is pretty realistic where I play) and we both play leave the casino 6 hours after we walk in:

You are winning $160 and I am winning $240 so my win rate per hour in the casino is $40/hr and yours is $26.67. That's a really bad situation for you.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:38 AM   #206
CoguColor
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

hey, im new in that live pro road also, but i have just tried with PLO since i belive that the average ability would be very low, since everyone play like NLH. Do you have any thougts about?
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:40 AM   #207
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Thanks all for the hh feedback. <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
This boggles my mind. Its absurd.

If you wait this long every time its going to destroy your win rate. I mean your actual win rate while playing is the same if you want to compare it to other players to see how you stack up, but if you want to compare how much actual money you are making its going to kill you.

If you and I are both $40/hr winners, but you have to wait 2 hrs to play every day and I get right onto a table (which is pretty realistic where I play) and we both play leave the casino 6 hours after we walk in:

You are winning $160 and I am winning $240 so my win rate per hour in the casino is $40/hr and yours is $26.67. That's a really bad situation for you.
Yeah it's really bad. I heard some regs talking about the casino may be closing some of the poker room's contiguous dining area to open a couple more tables and bringing back PLO. If that happens hopefully it'll ease the wait time.

Also the fact that I set my alarm for 12pm and didn't get out of bed til 2pm makes it pretty tough as well. That is something that is in my control that I can fix though so that's the next step.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:43 AM   #208
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

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Originally Posted by CoguColor View Post
hey, im new in that live pro road also, but i have just tried with PLO since i belive that the average ability would be very low, since everyone play like NLH. Do you have any thougts about?
Yes the skill level of live PLO is an absolute joke. Issue is the standard deviation/variance is way too high for me to bankroll myself for it. In theory if you know what you're doing, you should have a higher WR but only if it's a low rake environment and you can play a large enough sample to realise your edge.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:08 PM   #209
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Yeah in terms of sizing mate I kinda just yolo'd it the whole hand. Hard to know what is good live tbh. Flop sizing logic was that 60% prob gets me some fold equity and I'm going to want to go biggish with sets too right? Turn and river honestly idk. What do you suggest sizing wise for this hand?
Just size down flop to around 30% so turn can be ~65% leaving a comfortable river jam, and dw about "live regs never fold to 30%", well that's ok, as you're vbetting them most of the time
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:45 PM   #210
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Daily Update - Sun 13 Aug 2017

Hours Played: 10.7
Profit: $24
Variance: 3

Notes: Jesus ****ing Christ, what a session. I was down $1.5k after 20 minutes, I **** you not. It literally took me another 10 hours and quads twice to get the money back. I was thinking this would be my biggest losing session yet and was tossing up a career in drug trafficking for a while there...

Then as time went on, I was down about $750, and felt that euphoric feeling I've been known to get when losing... Just found myself smiling and basically laughing at the table and for absolutely no reason. Felt great. Anyhow, still in the hole big, floor manager comes over at about 3:05am and says "guys we'll be having the last hand in 15 minutes" - ****ing dismal. Next hand I get quads, and manage to break even. Obv super nice way to finish the session.

Anyway here are the hands:

Hand 1

Hero checks in BB w Q7o, 5 way to the flop.

Flop $25: Q27

Checks around

Turn $25: 8

Hero leads $20, UTG limper (600, covers) raises to $50. Here I think we should probably just call... we lose value to 78 and flush draws yeah, but are we really happy to stack off here? Maybe I'm just being results oriented.

Anyway, hero raises to $175 and villain snap shoves $600 effective, we sigh call and he's has 88 to scoop. Meh.

Hand 2

Hero opens AA $25 over one limper, one caller IP.

Flop $50: T52r

Hero cbets $25 v has maybe 350-400ish and raises to $75. Now this is a spot where, on the one hand, we want to be XPLO folding here often. But the fact that it's heads up and this guy can sorta muck about a bit, has shown down some weird ****, we have to call. There's a difference between this spot and if it goes 5 handed, we cbet get a caller and then some raises, that's different.

Hero calls.

Turn: 8tt

Check, check

River: Jttt

Hero realistically should go for value here but it sucks when we get raised and tbf we might struggle to get called by worse. Hero checks, villain checks behind and says he has an 8, MHIG. What do you guys think, small river vbet?

Also this is an annoying spot where I think I struggle to differentiate between calling and folding. Like do they just always have a set? Do they raise AT here? I feel like if the hand had played out where I called flop and villain jammed turn and we called and lost to 22, we'd be absolutely livid with ourselves for not just XPLO folding flop. IDK.

Hand 3

This was my first hand when I sat down, villain covers.

Hero opens JJ UTG to $20, call, villain calls(covers hero $600 deep)

Flop $67: 82Tdd

Hero cbets $60, villain raises to $125 - villain is young Asian, has like 2k in front of him, probably playing fairly aggro though I've never seen him before.

Hero calls coz, as per the last hand, v might just have AT or a draw - if any player type is going to have a flop raising range, it's this guy. Feel like just folding flop is too weak in this spot.

Hero calls.

Turn $320: 2c

Hero checks, villain bets $100, hero jams the rest in, villain calls and shows AA?!?!?!?!??! Like he snap cold called after an open and a call pre, obv I'm never ever putting him on AA. The 2 is a good card for me OTT and I feel really good about my hand on that turn and when he bets so small. Think I played it fine TBH but it's close.

Hand 4

Hero opens up TT to $30 over a couple limpers, one call in CO, flop is KKQr, hero checks, villain bets $50, hero folds. Felt like this was a super weak way to play our hand but is it really that terrible? I don't really see much merit to cbetting this flop, expect villain to check behind with his smaller pairs mostly and float the flop a huge amount when we cbet. Think it's okay.

Full Results & Graph: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AkK4doh8PHLEgk6pBpFJrgcokPKM

MISTAKE COUNTER

So this is something I'm going to begin tracking instead of variance, as per a suggestion from one of you guys. Major and minor mistakes, a major mistake being my folding AA on the JJTJ board last session, and a minor mistake being something more innocuous like missing easy value or calling a river bet when we don't need to or limp/calling some bs from UTG. The idea is to compile no. mistakes per week and hopefully eventually see a downward trend in mistake frequency. We'll also review mistakes with more scrutiny this way and will hopefully iron out some creases in our game. Will start logging these tomorrow.

Was strange tonight tbh, rocked up to the casino at about 4pm and managed to get a seat immediately - there was like no list all night. Tomorrow is a public holiday for like 50% of Brisbane so hopefully we'll be able to get a good session in at the casino - might end up at a homegame too; we'll see. Wanna get another big session in if possible - or maybe even a shorter one since I want to get up early on Tuesday (our day off this week) and go for breakfast before midday ideally.

Also I've had my car parked in the casino car park for a week... I got my parking validated after one of my sessions last week and I'm hoping the ticket will work and let me out on Tuesday, otherwise I might have to make up some BS to get out of paying a fortune in parking costs. If the ticket machine works, and we can get our car out, I'll be absolutely stoked because it means I will basically now have free parking for good.
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:45 PM   #211
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clanty View Post
Just size down flop to around 30% so turn can be ~65% leaving a comfortable river jam, and dw about "live regs never fold to 30%", well that's ok, as you're vbetting them most of the time
Yeah, story checks out. Cheers bro.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:13 PM   #212
CoguColor
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Yes the skill level of live PLO is an absolute joke. Issue is the standard deviation/variance is way too high for me to bankroll myself for it. In theory if you know what you're doing, you should have a higher WR but only if it's a low rake environment and you can play a large enough sample to realise your edge.
I've played 1 year reg and since i never experience DS more than 5 BI, i known that didn't have that much of sample, but it's just to say that high WR and some obvius tells that major people even Regs have on value bet make the variancy a lot lower.
For now i'm playing 5-10 reg 4x times a week in 5-8h sessions, with 25 BIs BRM to go up, and im doing very well since some real bad players Call too much value bets and played over passive or over Aggro donk. here we pay 5% of pot rake cap 200, but have rakeback on free excellent Food and drinking
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:17 PM   #213
tellypl
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Daily Update - Sun 13 Aug 2017

Hours Played: 10.7
Profit: $24
Variance: 3

Notes: Jesus ****ing Christ, what a session. I was down $1.5k after 20 minutes, I **** you not. It literally took me another 10 hours and quads twice to get the money back. I was thinking this would be my biggest losing session yet and was tossing up a career in drug trafficking for a while there...

Then as time went on, I was down about $750, and felt that euphoric feeling I've been known to get when losing... Just found myself smiling and basically laughing at the table and for absolutely no reason. Felt great. Anyhow, still in the hole big, floor manager comes over at about 3:05am and says "guys we'll be having the last hand in 15 minutes" - ****ing dismal. Next hand I get quads, and manage to break even. Obv super nice way to finish the session.

Anyway here are the hands:

Hand 1

Hero checks in BB w Q7o, 5 way to the flop.

Flop $25: Q27

Checks around

Turn $25: 8

Hero leads $20, UTG limper (600, covers) raises to $50. Here I think we should probably just call... we lose value to 78 and flush draws yeah, but are we really happy to stack off here? Maybe I'm just being results oriented.

Anyway, hero raises to $175 and villain snap shoves $600 effective, we sigh call and he's has 88 to scoop. Meh.

Hand 2

Hero opens AA $25 over one limper, one caller IP.

Flop $50: T52r

Hero cbets $25 v has maybe 350-400ish and raises to $75. Now this is a spot where, on the one hand, we want to be XPLO folding here often. But the fact that it's heads up and this guy can sorta muck about a bit, has shown down some weird ****, we have to call. There's a difference between this spot and if it goes 5 handed, we cbet get a caller and then some raises, that's different.

Hero calls.

Turn: 8tt

Check, check

River: Jttt

Hero realistically should go for value here but it sucks when we get raised and tbf we might struggle to get called by worse. Hero checks, villain checks behind and says he has an 8, MHIG. What do you guys think, small river vbet?

Also this is an annoying spot where I think I struggle to differentiate between calling and folding. Like do they just always have a set? Do they raise AT here? I feel like if the hand had played out where I called flop and villain jammed turn and we called and lost to 22, we'd be absolutely livid with ourselves for not just XPLO folding flop. IDK.

Hand 3

This was my first hand when I sat down, villain covers.

Hero opens JJ UTG to $20, call, villain calls(covers hero $600 deep)

Flop $67: 82Tdd

Hero cbets $60, villain raises to $125 - villain is young Asian, has like 2k in front of him, probably playing fairly aggro though I've never seen him before.

Hero calls coz, as per the last hand, v might just have AT or a draw - if any player type is going to have a flop raising range, it's this guy. Feel like just folding flop is too weak in this spot.

Hero calls.

Turn $320: 2c

Hero checks, villain bets $100, hero jams the rest in, villain calls and shows AA?!?!?!?!??! Like he snap cold called after an open and a call pre, obv I'm never ever putting him on AA. The 2 is a good card for me OTT and I feel really good about my hand on that turn and when he bets so small. Think I played it fine TBH but it's close.

Hand 4

Hero opens up TT to $30 over a couple limpers, one call in CO, flop is KKQr, hero checks, villain bets $50, hero folds. Felt like this was a super weak way to play our hand but is it really that terrible? I don't really see much merit to cbetting this flop, expect villain to check behind with his smaller pairs mostly and float the flop a huge amount when we cbet. Think it's okay.

Full Results & Graph: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AkK4doh8PHLEgk6pBpFJrgcokPKM

MISTAKE COUNTER

So this is something I'm going to begin tracking instead of variance, as per a suggestion from one of you guys. Major and minor mistakes, a major mistake being my folding AA on the JJTJ board last session, and a minor mistake being something more innocuous like missing easy value or calling a river bet when we don't need to or limp/calling some bs from UTG. The idea is to compile no. mistakes per week and hopefully eventually see a downward trend in mistake frequency. We'll also review mistakes with more scrutiny this way and will hopefully iron out some creases in our game. Will start logging these tomorrow.

Was strange tonight tbh, rocked up to the casino at about 4pm and managed to get a seat immediately - there was like no list all night. Tomorrow is a public holiday for like 50% of Brisbane so hopefully we'll be able to get a good session in at the casino - might end up at a homegame too; we'll see. Wanna get another big session in if possible - or maybe even a shorter one since I want to get up early on Tuesday (our day off this week) and go for breakfast before midday ideally.

Also I've had my car parked in the casino car park for a week... I got my parking validated after one of my sessions last week and I'm hoping the ticket will work and let me out on Tuesday, otherwise I might have to make up some BS to get out of paying a fortune in parking costs. If the ticket machine works, and we can get our car out, I'll be absolutely stoked because it means I will basically now have free parking for good.
H1 lead flop
H2 100 percent value betting river here after turn action
H3 shove on turn is spew IMO.
H4 is fine
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:56 PM   #214
CoguColor
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

H1 and H2 i guess they are a kind of spew since you're 10spr, so hands are kind of weak for SPR size and MW,
H1: should not miss that value bet, since Live have CS tendecies you should value and thinvalue bet a lot mix with some semi-bluff specially in wet board. I reserve slowplays for very aggro XPLO players, Turn its hard to fold live but with some reverse blockers like Qd witch narrow bluff range i should be folding
H3: it's very bad to chk/jam here since its unlike to get called worse, His bottom value raise flop was AT, IMO, and this hand should fold to jams. it's a kind of turning your value hand into a bad Bluff IMO
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:37 PM   #215
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Hand 1 is huge spew hand 3 is minor spew rest are fine.

There are a myriad of reasons for asian's pre flat there and i would fold to his click specifically bc i think a young asian knows exactly whats going on when we open utg and cbet T82 3 ways. JJ is a poor holding for us, especially if you have the Jd. Would much rather have black AT.

In the AA hand to answer your question you can call flop to fold turn.

So far your biggest leaks are not bet/folding enough and also thinking about balance. Imo

Judging by some of your hand histories the games do seem exceptional and i would have a hard time bet folding but for the most part you need to.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:50 PM   #216
RobinFriday
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Hand 1 is pretty bad imo. Just call then check-call river.

RE explo folding in spots like hand 2 I can see the appeal but live villains just value/protection/information raise top pair good kicker far too often for folding to be viable. Often it sucks - not in this particular spot - but you generally have to at least peel flop.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:24 PM   #217
baannii4
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

h1: bet flop, post seems std can fold to his jam depending on v

h2: i would honestly just gii on the flop here, v overplays jj qq a10. think as played river is def a bet don't like the mentality of "what if we get raised here". definitely missing value by not betting

h3: think calling/jamming turn is both fine wp

h4: u block bluffs like 10j so there's merit to folding so hand is fine but also merit to calling with the intent of sometimes turning ur hand into a bluff on later streets. whether or not this is viable depends on v obviously
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Old 08-14-2017, 01:16 AM   #218
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Curious as to how avairtia and cogu plan on playing H3... Appreciate all the feedback folks.
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Old 08-14-2017, 06:38 AM   #219
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Think against nitty players like the one you described I think the folds fine on JJTJx. Some types of people just aren't capable/think about bluffing or cbetting worse, let alone in these spots

I think in general the turn check and river jam is an extremely strong line so am ok with the fold.


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Old 08-14-2017, 06:41 AM   #220
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Another hand from today:



EP opens 15 hero calls IP w 88.



Flop $35: 673r



V bets 20 h calls



Turn 9o



Check, hero bets 30



River 3



Check hero bets 30 v calls and MHIG. Pretty happy to get the extra street of value there. Maybe could have gone bigger.

On flop quite like a smallish raise for protection from overcards, also get to realise our equity cheaply. Especially like it if someone cbets way way way too mych



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Old 08-14-2017, 12:12 PM   #221
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

Not wanting to get raised isnt a good enough reason not to value bet the aces, especially when people arent bluff raising
I would be careful not to give off obvious sizing tells. It seems like youre value bets are noteably smaller when you plan on folding to a raise, like with the 88 sure you tihnk you have the best hand and want to squeeze some more value without risking a lot of chips, but you could be sacrificing EV in the long run as youre never bluffing at this size, and people will be able to play much closer to correct against you OTR
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:38 PM   #222
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

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On flop quite like a smallish raise for protection from overcards, also get to realise our equity cheaply. Especially like it if someone cbets way way way too mych



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I think if he bet any smaller then he did, that might cross my mind, but in general I don't love the idea of raising flop vs an uncapped range here... Makes river super tuff to play.

Quote:
Not wanting to get raised isnt a good enough reason not to value bet the aces, especially when people arent bluff raising
Yeah I think it was a bit weak not to vbet. We did get raised though in this hand, turns out he was bluff raising. But yeah, pot is kinda bloated already, what size do you think is good for river value?
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Old 08-14-2017, 08:40 PM   #223
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

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I think if he bet any smaller then he did, that might cross my mind, but in general I don't love the idea of raising flop vs an uncapped range here... Makes river super tuff to play.

Disagree unless you think he's raising a balanced range of Sets/QQ+ and Air!!

Disageee on river unless you think he's going to float a lot OOP and bluff river How to Be Happy as a Live Pro




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Old 08-14-2017, 08:53 PM   #224
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

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Disagree unless you think he's raising a balanced range of Sets/QQ+ and Air!!

Disageee on river unless you think he's going to float a lot OOP and bluff river How to Be Happy as a Live Pro




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I just feel like when we raise flop, he folds all his air and calls with hands we lose to? I'm fairly happy for him to fire multiple barrels on this board knowing I'll be able to station at least any turn and maybe river to get value from his bluffs. If we raise flop how are we playing turn? Bet super small and X behind OTR? Or check turn and fold river?
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Old 08-14-2017, 09:09 PM   #225
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Re: How to Be Happy as a Live Pro

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I just feel like when we raise flop, he folds all his air and calls with hands we lose to? I'm fairly happy for him to fire multiple barrels on this board knowing I'll be able to station at least any turn and maybe river to get value from his bluffs. If we raise flop how are we playing turn? Bet super small and X behind OTR? Or check turn and fold river?

It just makes the hand a lot more straight forward to play against - we stop him from realising his equity and as soon as he calls exploitatively he's basically always got it.

If he calls flop OTT just check back and get a free card or betting ok too.

If you look at a bunch of PIO RIO vids it likes to raise these sort of flops with a merged range for protection, especially if you don't allow the OOP player to 3bet flop (which models real poker fairly well in practice)


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